2015-2016 NBA Regular Season - MDA to HOU - All-NBA - Harden snubbed - Anthony Davis is broke

[jsindaa]

So not only are y'all comparing Pac popularity to the set, completely discounting the fact that Pac was dead long before the internet was the behemoth it was during the dips run, y'all are comparing penny to Kobe? Never change NT. Never change

 

[onetrust]

even before he got hurt he was nothing special

21 points per game

slightly above average player at best 

Those first 3 seasons showed his potential. Dude was JUST getting started before he got derailed early with his knee injury.

22 points on 51% fg with 7 assists and about two steals ain't too bad for his third year.

Anyway, dude was giving a prime Jordan and Pippen some nice comp so it was definitely there. If you weren't there to actually see it though and are just looking at his numbers, then of course it doesn't look that great. Just had to be there in the moment really.

Hell, even a slightly washed Penny was hanging in there with Kobe during their one time playoff series.

Anyway, i'm actually cause i thought y'all would know i was being sarcastic cause OBVIOUSLY career wise, Kobe blows Penny's out the water. Game wise though, in their primes, like Shaq said, "Shaq and Penny were Shaq and Kobe before Shaq and Kobe."

 

[sea manup]

 

Originally Posted by sea manup  

Originally Posted by DarthSka  

Originally Posted by sea manup  

Originally Posted by DarthSka  
Took Penny and Shaq all of 2 seasons to reach the Finals... without the greatest coach of all time.

Took Kobe and Shaq 4 seasons, and it wasn't until Phil came on board, and that was with Shaq at his most dominant.

how many championships did shaq win with penny? 0

how many championships did shaq win with kobe? 3

penny was never an allstar after shaq left, shaq went to play with one of the greatest players of all time and his ex teammate instantly became irrelevant

You, umm... you failed to even mention a very critical component to what I said.

The Lakers won the same number of championships with Shaq and Kobe sans Phil as the Magic did with Shaq and Penny, no Phil.

sooo kobe and shaq won championships with phil and shaq and penny won 0 championships?

sounds good to me 

3 > 0, that's all that I care about 

Of course establishing an equation that is fair to both is of no interest to you.

Phil-less (Penny + Shaq) = 0
Phil-less (Kobe + Shaq) = 0

You want to ask how many Penny and Shaq won together without mentioning that Kobe and Shaq had Phil, nah. Along with the Kobe and Phil championships come the Phil discussion, so that needs to be inserted into the Penny and Shaq discussion. I mean, to be fair.


If being fair is of no interest to you, that's understandable.

Expected, and understandable.

fact is kobe did have phil as a coach so disregarding his successes with phil is nothing but a cheap way to frame your argument so that it is less favorable for kobe.

sure you can bring up phil, he did play a major role in the championships. 

but if we are talking about being fair, only choosing to focus on the non phil half because of your anti-kobe bias is hardly fair at all seeing that if we are evaluating what kobe did with shaq we should be looking at the entirety of their basketball relationship which includes the three championships with phil.

but of course establishing an equation that is actually fair to both is of no interest to you, instead of examining the big picture lets find a qualifier to diminish how much more successful shaq was with kobe than he was with penny.

"we cant count any of the years phil was the coach" 

"I'm trying to be fair" 

 

[darthska]

[quote name="sea manup"]"we cant count any of the years phil was the coach" 

"I'm trying to be fair" 

[/quote]My initial argument was about them reaching the Finals as a new duo. You brought up championships, as if that's fair. It's not, so I matched your unfair question with an unfair rebuttal.

 

[sea manup]

 

Originally Posted by sea manup  
"we cant count any of the years phil was the coach" 

"I'm trying to be fair" 

My initial argument was about them reaching the Finals as a new duo. You brought up championships, as if that's fair. It's not, so I matched your unfair question with an unfair rebuttal.

not as a new duo, as a duo

penny and shaq played together for ______ years and made the finals once

shaq left penny and penny's career went into shambles

shaq started playing with kobe and they played together for _____ years

over that span they won three championships 

so when comparing shaq and penny to shaq and kobe its about as fair as you can get.

only unfair part is comparing penny to kobe 

 

[darthska]

It is unfair, because Penny was never the volume shooting gloryhog Kobe was.

Had he been more 'Mamba'-like and just chuck, chuck, chucked, maybe he could have lead the Lakers to some of their worst seasons... ever.

 

[sea manup]

to be fair if penny shot as much as kobe did his arms would fall off and his knees would turn to dust

he just wasn't built for the big leagues, shaq's lucky he went to pursue his rap career in LA and ended up landing such greatness in a teammate

 

[onetrust]

to be fair if penny shot as much as kobe did his arms would fall off and his knees would turn to dust

he just wasn't built for the big leagues, shaq's lucky he went to pursue his rap career in LA and ended up landing such greatness in a teammate

Shaq's the lucky one? Out of ANY of those 3, Kobe is by far the luckiest one.

 

[sea manup]

 

to be fair if penny shot as much as kobe did his arms would fall off and his knees would turn to dust

he just wasn't built for the big leagues, shaq's lucky he went to pursue his rap career in LA and ended up landing such greatness in a teammate

Shaq's the lucky one?

Out of ANY of those 3, Kobe is by far the luckiest one.

kobe accomplished more without shaq than shaq did without kobe though 

you can call it luck, I will call it being more successful 

 

[onetrust]

kobe accomplished more without shaq than shaq did without kobe though 

you can call it luck, I will call it being more successful 

I was more so referencing you talking about Shaq being lucky to go to LA as if Kobe wasn't the luckier one to have him come to LA since Shaq was the main reason they won those titles.

 

[sea manup]

 

kobe accomplished more without shaq than shaq did without kobe though 

you can call it luck, I will call it being more successful 

I was more so referencing you talking about Shaq being lucky to go to LA as if Kobe wasn't the luckier one to have him come to LA since Shaq was the main reason they won those titles.

they were both lucky in that the situation ended up being very successful for both of them

but they each saw the lakers as the best path to success and did what was needed to get signed by the team

 

[onetrust]

they were both lucky in that the situation ended up being very successful for both of them

but they each saw the lakers as the best path to success and did what was needed to get signed by the team

Yeah, they were both lucky for sure, but at that time, playing with the most dominant center is far more lucky than playing with an unknown rookie which is what I was getting at.

Also, Shaq didn't see the Lakers as the best path to success at that time. That definitely isn't a reason he chose to go there. He just saw that they had more money and showed more belief in him than the Magic did according to the 30 for 30 doc.

 

[CP1708]

The guy worked harder than just about anybody the game has ever known.

He battled thru a billion injuries, and fought thru them anyways.

He had full time doctors, masseuse, chef to keep his body going for 2 full decades.

I don't call that luck. I call that a guy that dedicated his soul to the sport. Shaq, Penny, TMac, not exactly guys I'd say the same thing about.

And thru all that, he dealt with Del, Rambis, Phil x 2, Rudy, Brown, MDA, Byron, insane ownership, media crush 24-7. I wouldn't consider that "luck" either.

But yeah, Penny, sure. *thumbs up*

You guys love claiming luck for a guy you hate but love dudes like Monta Ellis, TMac, Vince, Artest, Pierce level guys that in no way fought thru similar issues or worked as hard on their craft. Only Kobe's some "lucky" player.

I guess it's time to start adding the lucky label to Steph, Bron, Wade, Duncan, MJ, Magic etc. None of them get that same label for some reason. Wonder why that is.

 

[onetrust]

The guy worked harder than just about anybody the game has ever known.

He battled thru a billion injuries, and fought thru them anyways.

He had full time doctors, masseuse, chef to keep his body going for 2 full decades.

I don't call that luck. I call that a guy that dedicated his soul to the sport. Shaq, Penny, TMac, not exactly guys I'd say the same thing about.

And thru all that, he dealt with Del, Rambis, Phil x 2, Rudy, Brown, MDA, Byron, insane ownership, media crush 24-7. I wouldn't consider that "luck" either.

But yeah, Penny, sure. *thumbs up*

You guys love claiming luck for a guy you hate but love dudes like Monta Ellis, TMac, Vince, Artest, Pierce level guys that in no way fought thru similar issues or worked as hard on their craft. Only Kobe's some "lucky" player.

I guess it's time to start adding the lucky label to Steph, Bron, Wade, Duncan, MJ, Magic etc. None of them get that same label for some reason. Wonder why that is.

CP, i think you and Seaman, have TOTALLY misunderstood what i was referring to as luck.

I was referring to Seaman saying Shaq was lucky to come to LA to play with a great teammate when for SURE at that time, Kobe was an unknown rookie and Shaq was that "great" teammate already. That was what I was referring to.

 

[darthska]

working hard =/= luck

You cannot work hard enough to have Shaq come to your team before you even start your NBA career.

You cannot work hard enough to have Phil take the reigns.

There is no number of pushups you can do to have Phil return after leaving.

THAT... is luck. Good fortune. Whatever.

81? Not luck.

Teammates? Coaching staff? I mean, is there a formula for hours put in to maximize your potential teammates?

 

[nick.]

Lakers got permission to interview Walton.

Has a team ever asked for permission to interview someone & the other team said no?

 

[T0INE]

Lakers got permission to interview Walton.

Has a team ever asked for permission to interview someone & the other team said no?

I'm pretty sure it's happened but I can't remember a single instance right now.

 

[cpf262]

Lakers got permission to interview Walton.

Has a team ever asked for permission to interview someone & the other team said no?

Green bay packers have done it multiple times with their assistants and padres did it to brewers last year with one of their minor league managers if I remember correctly

 

[sea manup]

working hard =/= luck

You cannot work hard enough to have Shaq come to your team before you even start your NBA career.

You cannot work hard enough to have Phil take the reigns.

There is no number of pushups you can do to have Phil return after leaving.

THAT... is luck. Good fortune. Whatever.

81? Not luck.

Teammates? Coaching staff? I mean, is there a formula for hours put in to maximize your potential teammates?

All the hard work that went into being good enough to impress Jerry West and have him trade for the rights to draft Kobe is not luck.

All the hard work that he put in to become the best player in the league, good enough for Phil to say "I'm coming back because I believe we can build a championship around this guy" is hard work not luck

 

[CP1708]

OneTrust, I hear ya. Fair enough on your reasoning, but a lot of folks on NT have stuck the luck label on him in lesser fashions.

I certainly hear you on Shaq joining not knowing how good he'd be in time.

Ska, so Jordan is lucky too, right? Cuz Phil joined him. Pippen. Horace. Rodman. Kukoc. So clearly, lot of benefits there for MJ.

Magic = lucky, right? Joined up with Kareem, Dr Buss, Jerry West, swindled a #1 pick to get Worthy, Pat Riley came thru.

Duncan, joining David, Pop, FO that pulled TP, Manu, Kawhi, paycuts galore.

So Magic, Michael, Duncan, Kobe all lucky, right? Agreed?

 

[doublemesh96]

Jason terry guarantees win. Goes into the the half with zero points and his team down by a dub. Troll God JT

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Jordan is lucky Kobe was born a decade after him

 

[darthska]

[quote name="CP1708"]Ska, so Jordan is lucky too, right? Cuz Phil joined him. Pippen. Horace. Rodman. Kukoc. So clearly, lot of benefits there for MJ.

Magic = lucky, right? Joined up with Kareem, Dr Buss, Jerry West, swindled a #1 pick to get Worthy, Pat Riley came thru.

Duncan, joining David, Pop, FO that pulled TP, Manu, Kawhi, paycuts galore.

So Magic, Michael, Duncan, Kobe all lucky, right? Agreed?[/quote]In THAT regard... AAAABBBBBSSSOLLLUUUTELLLY.

And I've never said otherwise.

I've mentioned plenty that Magic went to 9 Finals in 12 years... but he played his whole career with HOFers everywhere. He had a whole career like Kobe's one year of Nash/Pau/Dwight/Artest. Not that Artest and Dwight are HOFers, but damn, could you imagine if Kobe had 12 years straight with those guys? Not 12 years of guys LIKE those guys, but 12 years of those same guys? :x

Phil and Scottie were the best things to happen to Jordan, absolutely.

Timmy gets drafted to the Clippers... :x

 

[CP1708]

Then I accept that, 100%. You keep it consistent among all of them, I'm cool with that.

Too many over the years throw the label on one but not the others, tryin to use it as some negative.

 

[sea manup]

 

Originally Posted by CP1708  
Ska, so Jordan is lucky too, right? Cuz Phil joined him. Pippen. Horace. Rodman. Kukoc. So clearly, lot of benefits there for MJ.

Magic = lucky, right? Joined up with Kareem, Dr Buss, Jerry West, swindled a #1 pick to get Worthy, Pat Riley came thru.

Duncan, joining David, Pop, FO that pulled TP, Manu, Kawhi, paycuts galore.

So Magic, Michael, Duncan, Kobe all lucky, right? Agreed?

In THAT regard... AAAABBBBBSSSOLLLUUUTELLLY.

And I've never said otherwise.

I've mentioned plenty that Magic went to 9 Finals in 12 years... but he played his whole career with HOFers everywhere. He had a whole career like Kobe's one year of Nash/Pau/Dwight/Artest. Not that Artest and Dwight are HOFers, but damn, could you imagine if Kobe had 12 years straight with those guys? Not 12 years of guys LIKE those guys, but 12 years of those same guys?

Phil and Scottie were the best things to happen to Jordan, absolutely.

Timmy gets drafted to the Clippers... 

fixed