56 MPG mandate by 2025 = SCRAPPED BY current EPA

[h1]Editorial: Put the brakes on CAFE[/h1][h2]President should heed the plea of UAW, Michigan Congress members to relax mileage standards[/h2]
The UAW is urging its good friend in the White House to slow down the rush to adopt excessively high fuel economy standards for the auto industry. The Obama administration should take that advice.

What the UAW knows and what President Barack Obama should try to understand is that regulating an industry ahead of available technology is a recipe for killing jobs. The president intends to use his salvation of the domestic auto industry as a selling point in his re-election campaign next year. But his status as a hero of automakers and autoworkers will crumble if he forces mandates that can't be met.

What the administration wants is a corporate average fuel economy standard of 56.2 miles per gallon by 2025. Automakers are now scrambling to meet a standard of 34.1 miles per gallon by 2016. It has been estimated that to get to where Obama wants to go will add $30 billion annually to the cost of new vehicles, assuming sales of 15 million, and slice close to a quarter of a million auto-related jobs.

It will almost certainly kill or sharply reduce the Detroit automakers' ability to produce highly profitable pickups or sport utility vehicles. These are products America's consumers want and which Detroit's Big Three make very well.

Michigan's congressional delegation joined the UAW in pressing the White House to approach CAFE at a much slower pace. The delegation also wants a mid-period review of any new standards to make sure they are technically achievable and affordable.

Automakers are also asking for different fuel efficiency standards that would allow the continued production of trucks and SUVs.

A president whose re-election hinges on a rebound in jobs should listen to the warnings that oppressive CAFE mandates would have a negative effect on employment.

Environmental groups have launched an intense lobbying effort to prevent the White House from backing off the 56.2 miles per gallon standard. But the environmentalists don't have to worry about jobs. The president does.

The auto industry is recovering nicely, but its long-term viability is far from certain. At the same time, the recovery of the national economy remains uncertain as well. There will be time to deal with CAFE when both the industry and the economy are on surer ground. For now, the best approach for a president who is trying to heal the economy is to do no harm.
http://detnews.com/article/20110717/OPINION01/107170314/1007/rss07

reposted since ninjahood likes to ignore responses
all that list shows is that im right...that a american TRUCK is outselling foreign automaker's cars  ya wanna move da goal posts by combining ALL of em vs number 1 then hey be my guest
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Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by Essential1

Go sit down... Seriously you are by far the dumbest member of Niketalk... And used the dumbest criteria as to not vote for Barack Obama... Because he is mandating a 56MPG fleet?  Most of us don't drive a Lambo so if I get 56 MPG... A full tank will last me over a month...

By the way... Foreign automakers who have plants in the U.S. have  ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  UNIONS...   Do you know Toyota pays $30 an hour for worker... UAW $29.78...  The difference comes from UAW having far more workers and more benefits to pay out.. But it is not the unions that "crippled" the Big 3...

The problem was the Big 3 went BIGGER.. While all the other companies went SMALLER.. Making more fuel economic cars, meaning higher MPG... As the economy slipped further and further through the decade more and more people traded their Yukons, Hummers, Excursions, etc. for Sonata's, Camry's etc. BUT the big 3 still produced more and more of the SUV's.. And when the economy was on the tipping point in 2007/2008 everyone saw the writing on the wall except the Big 3.. 

You are by far DA least informed person on NT.... 
  
best selling car in da US is da Ford F-series....a truck



dunce_cap.jpg



got anything else for me son?
laugh.gif
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Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by ninjahood


and you dont see a problem with this?

you dont FORCE something that da market isn't isnt ready for, da technology isn't available yet, and simply that people just dont want.

with gas being high or low, you know whats da number 1 selling car in da US? da Ford F series...you can't Force people to buy things they dont want.

if they REALLY wanted high MPG then diesel versions of cars we see on da road via europe would've BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN available in da US.

http://www.chicagotribune...s,0,4506344.photogallery

highlight the chart if numbers don't show up

[table][tr][td]1. Ford F-Series (528,349 +27.7%)[/td][td]6. Honda Civic (260,218 +0.8%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]2. Chevrolet Silverado  (370,135 +16.9%)[/td][td]7. Nissan Altima (229,263 +12.6%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]3. Toyota Camry (327,804 -7.5%)[/td][td]8. Ford Fusion (219,219 +21.3%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]4. Honda Accord (311,381 +8.1%)[/td][td]9. Honda CR-V (203,714 +7.2%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]5. Toyota Corolla (266,082 -9.8%)[/td][td]10. Dodge Ram (199,652 +13%)
[/td][/tr][/table]
Total of gas guzzlers= 1098313
Total gas fuel efficient cars = 1817681

that's just top 10.  more Americans buy fuel efficient cars than gas guzzlers.  fact.

nice try trying to mislead us though.
reposted since ninjahood likes to ignore responses


Facts.. Smacts... He doesn't get it.. Nor will he ever... When he is proven wrong, he doubles down.. Just go look up the thread where he talked about his view on gay people..

He said unions crippled the Big 3, because foreign companies who bring their plants to the U.S. don't have unions.. Not only do they have unions, in 2008 around the time of the Auto Bailout which absolutely worked and saved close to a million jobs, Toyota's union workers were making $.25 an hour more than those of the UAW......
  
 
Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by Essential1

Go sit down... Seriously you are by far the dumbest member of Niketalk... And used the dumbest criteria as to not vote for Barack Obama... Because he is mandating a 56MPG fleet?  Most of us don't drive a Lambo so if I get 56 MPG... A full tank will last me over a month...

By the way... Foreign automakers who have plants in the U.S. have  ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  UNIONS...   Do you know Toyota pays $30 an hour for worker... UAW $29.78...  The difference comes from UAW having far more workers and more benefits to pay out.. But it is not the unions that "crippled" the Big 3...

The problem was the Big 3 went BIGGER.. While all the other companies went SMALLER.. Making more fuel economic cars, meaning higher MPG... As the economy slipped further and further through the decade more and more people traded their Yukons, Hummers, Excursions, etc. for Sonata's, Camry's etc. BUT the big 3 still produced more and more of the SUV's.. And when the economy was on the tipping point in 2007/2008 everyone saw the writing on the wall except the Big 3.. 

You are by far DA least informed person on NT.... 
  
best selling car in da US is da Ford F-series....a truck



dunce_cap.jpg



got anything else for me son?
laugh.gif
grin.gif

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by ninjahood


and you dont see a problem with this?

you dont FORCE something that da market isn't isnt ready for, da technology isn't available yet, and simply that people just dont want.

with gas being high or low, you know whats da number 1 selling car in da US? da Ford F series...you can't Force people to buy things they dont want.

if they REALLY wanted high MPG then diesel versions of cars we see on da road via europe would've BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN available in da US.

http://www.chicagotribune...s,0,4506344.photogallery

highlight the chart if numbers don't show up

[table][tr][td]1. Ford F-Series (528,349 +27.7%)[/td][td]6. Honda Civic (260,218 +0.8%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]2. Chevrolet Silverado  (370,135 +16.9%)[/td][td]7. Nissan Altima (229,263 +12.6%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]3. Toyota Camry (327,804 -7.5%)[/td][td]8. Ford Fusion (219,219 +21.3%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]4. Honda Accord (311,381 +8.1%)[/td][td]9. Honda CR-V (203,714 +7.2%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]5. Toyota Corolla (266,082 -9.8%)[/td][td]10. Dodge Ram (199,652 +13%)
[/td][/tr][/table]
Total of gas guzzlers= 1098313
Total gas fuel efficient cars = 1817681

that's just top 10.  more Americans buy fuel efficient cars than gas guzzlers.  fact.

nice try trying to mislead us though.
reposted since ninjahood likes to ignore responses


Facts.. Smacts... He doesn't get it.. Nor will he ever... When he is proven wrong, he doubles down.. Just go look up the thread where he talked about his view on gay people..

He said unions crippled the Big 3, because foreign companies who bring their plants to the U.S. don't have unions.. Not only do they have unions, in 2008 around the time of the Auto Bailout which absolutely worked and saved close to a million jobs, Toyota's union workers were making $.25 an hour more than those of the UAW......
  
 
Originally Posted by CriminalMinded

Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.
Eh... Personally I could care less about either... Because I don't know either personally..... I would like to primary Obama....  So swing and a miss... And my defense of Obama was that this is the dumbest criteria not to vote for someone... Including Obama.. Hell if you said No Child Left Behind was your reason for not voting for Bush, that would be a dumb excuse as well..

I don't care about who proposed the policy... If John Boehner proposed the policy I'd defend it... Because it is good policy... Maybe reaching a bit too far with 56 MPG, but not the wrong idea...

What I flip out about is someone as stupid as Ninjahood talking about something he doesn't know about...

So me flipping is making Ninjahood look stupid.... I'll take it...  With no lost sleep..


  
 
Originally Posted by CriminalMinded

Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.
Eh... Personally I could care less about either... Because I don't know either personally..... I would like to primary Obama....  So swing and a miss... And my defense of Obama was that this is the dumbest criteria not to vote for someone... Including Obama.. Hell if you said No Child Left Behind was your reason for not voting for Bush, that would be a dumb excuse as well..

I don't care about who proposed the policy... If John Boehner proposed the policy I'd defend it... Because it is good policy... Maybe reaching a bit too far with 56 MPG, but not the wrong idea...

What I flip out about is someone as stupid as Ninjahood talking about something he doesn't know about...

So me flipping is making Ninjahood look stupid.... I'll take it...  With no lost sleep..


  
 
Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by Method Man


Due to extreme volatility, we are advising our clients to divest themselves of any stock placed in Ninjahood, who is currently at risk of being delisted by the NTSE.  
102jnli.gif

Best,

Billy Ray Valentine (Capricorn)

Duke and Duke Commodities
We need an update + a forecast Sir Method Man.

I'm late as hell but wow just wow. Is this for real life? 
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
@ the TP reference. 
 
Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by Method Man


Due to extreme volatility, we are advising our clients to divest themselves of any stock placed in Ninjahood, who is currently at risk of being delisted by the NTSE.  
102jnli.gif

Best,

Billy Ray Valentine (Capricorn)

Duke and Duke Commodities
We need an update + a forecast Sir Method Man.

I'm late as hell but wow just wow. Is this for real life? 
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
@ the TP reference. 
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

reposted since ninjahood likes to ignore responses
all that list shows is that im right...that a american TRUCK is outselling foreign automaker's cars  ya wanna move da goal posts by combining ALL of em vs number 1 then hey be my guest
grin.gif
eyes.gif
laugh.gif


facepalm...if you read my post correctly, it's the total of all the fuel efficient cars vs the TOTAL of gas guzzlers.  nice strawman though.

the goalpost isn't about which car is the best selling car.  the goalpost is about what kind of cars Americans want and buy.  A top 10 list gives us a much more accurate depiction of what kind of cars Americans want and buy.

first you said Americans don't want fuel efficient cars.  you support this claim with the fact that the F series is the #1 selling car in America
I then post the top 10 best selling cars.  7 of the top 10 best selling cars are fuel efficient cars and their sales are greater than than your gas guzzling trucks.

so once again, here are the numberss

Total of gas guzzlers= 1098313
Total gas fuel efficient cars = 1817681

that's just top 10.  more Americans buy fuel efficient cars than gas guzzlers.  fact.

nice try trying to mislead us though.
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

reposted since ninjahood likes to ignore responses
all that list shows is that im right...that a american TRUCK is outselling foreign automaker's cars  ya wanna move da goal posts by combining ALL of em vs number 1 then hey be my guest
grin.gif
eyes.gif
laugh.gif


facepalm...if you read my post correctly, it's the total of all the fuel efficient cars vs the TOTAL of gas guzzlers.  nice strawman though.

the goalpost isn't about which car is the best selling car.  the goalpost is about what kind of cars Americans want and buy.  A top 10 list gives us a much more accurate depiction of what kind of cars Americans want and buy.

first you said Americans don't want fuel efficient cars.  you support this claim with the fact that the F series is the #1 selling car in America
I then post the top 10 best selling cars.  7 of the top 10 best selling cars are fuel efficient cars and their sales are greater than than your gas guzzling trucks.

so once again, here are the numberss

Total of gas guzzlers= 1098313
Total gas fuel efficient cars = 1817681

that's just top 10.  more Americans buy fuel efficient cars than gas guzzlers.  fact.

nice try trying to mislead us though.
 
Obama and his admin are correct in this case.
The era of cheap petrol for the US is over. By the time this permeates through our culture and changes people's habits, it's going to be too late.  Most Americans are so dependent on cars that rising gas prices will take an ever increasing chunk of  consumer discretionary spending and become a huge drag on the overall economy. Gas is a inelastic good for most Americans. They have no choice but to drive. They have to drive to work. They have to drive to purchase food. They have to drive their kids to school. 

You'll still be able to buy cars with lower mileage. You;ll just have to pay some penalty/tax. Why should the taxpayer subsidize this habit like they're doing now? 

People who drive cars with good mileage are subsidizing those who don't. 
 
Obama and his admin are correct in this case.
The era of cheap petrol for the US is over. By the time this permeates through our culture and changes people's habits, it's going to be too late.  Most Americans are so dependent on cars that rising gas prices will take an ever increasing chunk of  consumer discretionary spending and become a huge drag on the overall economy. Gas is a inelastic good for most Americans. They have no choice but to drive. They have to drive to work. They have to drive to purchase food. They have to drive their kids to school. 

You'll still be able to buy cars with lower mileage. You;ll just have to pay some penalty/tax. Why should the taxpayer subsidize this habit like they're doing now? 

People who drive cars with good mileage are subsidizing those who don't. 
 
Originally Posted by CriminalMinded

Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.

ahh so thats what it is....
laugh.gif


lets put it like this chief...any policy that involves raising cost and killing jobs will be highlighted and bolded for this upcoming election year.......republicans just gave obama da sword he can fall on when they granted him da right to raise da debt limit.

so if anything else goes wrong da blame is squarely on him.
 
Originally Posted by CriminalMinded

Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.

ahh so thats what it is....
laugh.gif


lets put it like this chief...any policy that involves raising cost and killing jobs will be highlighted and bolded for this upcoming election year.......republicans just gave obama da sword he can fall on when they granted him da right to raise da debt limit.

so if anything else goes wrong da blame is squarely on him.
 
roll.gif
Ghenges wrote:

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by Method Man


Due to extreme volatility, we are advising our clients to divest themselves of any stock placed in Ninjahood, who is currently at risk of being delisted by the NTSE.  
102jnli.gif

Best,

Billy Ray Valentine (Capricorn)

Duke and Duke Commodities
We need an update + a forecast Sir Method Man.

I'm late as hell but wow just wow. Is this for real life? 
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
@ the TP reference. 


roll.gif
This chart
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And I am not a fan of Obama at all but this law isn't that crazy to me.  This is 14 years in the future, I hope by then we have developed more alternative fuel choices and aren't even that dependent on oil.  If changes aren't made and the world continues consuming oil at the current rate there is going to be a oil crisis so how is this law ridiculous.  You are talking like oil is an infinite resource and they are just putting more restrictions on it because they can.  And maybe this will get automakers to move away from more boxy vehicles.  By far the worst automaker has to be Chrysler.  They have ugly !$+ boxy vehicles that have engines way more powerful than anything the average person needs.  They could create more aerodynamic designs and decrease engine size and still get the same performance out of a majority of the vehicles they produce. 
 
roll.gif
Ghenges wrote:

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by Method Man


Due to extreme volatility, we are advising our clients to divest themselves of any stock placed in Ninjahood, who is currently at risk of being delisted by the NTSE.  
102jnli.gif

Best,

Billy Ray Valentine (Capricorn)

Duke and Duke Commodities
We need an update + a forecast Sir Method Man.

I'm late as hell but wow just wow. Is this for real life? 
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
@ the TP reference. 


roll.gif
This chart
roll.gif
roll.gif

And I am not a fan of Obama at all but this law isn't that crazy to me.  This is 14 years in the future, I hope by then we have developed more alternative fuel choices and aren't even that dependent on oil.  If changes aren't made and the world continues consuming oil at the current rate there is going to be a oil crisis so how is this law ridiculous.  You are talking like oil is an infinite resource and they are just putting more restrictions on it because they can.  And maybe this will get automakers to move away from more boxy vehicles.  By far the worst automaker has to be Chrysler.  They have ugly !$+ boxy vehicles that have engines way more powerful than anything the average person needs.  They could create more aerodynamic designs and decrease engine size and still get the same performance out of a majority of the vehicles they produce. 
 
ninjahood wrote:
CriminalMinded wrote:
Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.

ahh so thats what it is....
laugh.gif


lets put it like this chief...any policy that involves raising cost and killing jobs will be highlighted and bolded for this upcoming election year.......republicans just gave obama da sword he can fall on when they granted him da right to raise da debt limit.

so if anything else goes wrong da blame is squarely on him.



And the debt limit will kill jobs? Him raising the debt limit? The thing that has been raised 70 some-odd times including 10 in the last decade will kill jobs?  Maybe you are not well versed in business, but I'm not sure you know what happens when the U.S. "defaults" on loans... Why do you think Republicans are playing the negotiating game all while they say "There is no question whether or not we will raise the debt limit. We will" Boehner even had to meet with Wall Street 3 times to assure him that the debt limit will be raised.

Also do you understand the process of these kinds of legislations? Including the fact that they are negotiable, they gave the car companies 14 years of  time of research & development to figure it out... Think of when you went to your first day of school in Kindergarten,  then think of the day you graduated high school.. Add 1 year, and 3 months, and that is how much time they have..

It will have very minimal... If ANY impact on the car companies.. Except the trend their R&D have to go... Because that is the trend they go in anyway, more fuel efficiency... By 2025, do you think Hyundai and Honda, Toyota will still be in the high 20's, low 30's MPG? 

roll.gif
 at you thinking this would have massive job losses in 2012... When the goal is 2025...

You are a one-stop shop of ignorance in any matter of importance..
 
ninjahood wrote:
CriminalMinded wrote:
Speak bad on Obama or Olberman this dude Essential1 will flip. I bet he loosing sleep tonight.

ahh so thats what it is....
laugh.gif


lets put it like this chief...any policy that involves raising cost and killing jobs will be highlighted and bolded for this upcoming election year.......republicans just gave obama da sword he can fall on when they granted him da right to raise da debt limit.

so if anything else goes wrong da blame is squarely on him.



And the debt limit will kill jobs? Him raising the debt limit? The thing that has been raised 70 some-odd times including 10 in the last decade will kill jobs?  Maybe you are not well versed in business, but I'm not sure you know what happens when the U.S. "defaults" on loans... Why do you think Republicans are playing the negotiating game all while they say "There is no question whether or not we will raise the debt limit. We will" Boehner even had to meet with Wall Street 3 times to assure him that the debt limit will be raised.

Also do you understand the process of these kinds of legislations? Including the fact that they are negotiable, they gave the car companies 14 years of  time of research & development to figure it out... Think of when you went to your first day of school in Kindergarten,  then think of the day you graduated high school.. Add 1 year, and 3 months, and that is how much time they have..

It will have very minimal... If ANY impact on the car companies.. Except the trend their R&D have to go... Because that is the trend they go in anyway, more fuel efficiency... By 2025, do you think Hyundai and Honda, Toyota will still be in the high 20's, low 30's MPG? 

roll.gif
 at you thinking this would have massive job losses in 2012... When the goal is 2025...

You are a one-stop shop of ignorance in any matter of importance..
 
Originally Posted by wawaweewa


Why should the taxpayer subsidize this habit like they're doing now? 

People who drive cars with good mileage are subsidizing those who don't.
are you aware that da government is handing out vouchers with every hybrid car purchase? sounds like da subsidization is working da other way around chief.

cheap petro can and will be continue to be cheap because

A. we can depend on our own resources and not just be at da mercy of opec.

b. point to me da politician brave enough to tax gas so high that it will no doubt be passed along to da consumer in a myriad of ways (food transport, commodities, clothing, services)

and contrary to popular belief da UAW is 100% backing what im saying because they know it'll kill jobs...jobs they need to continue to operate their unions.
 
Originally Posted by wawaweewa


Why should the taxpayer subsidize this habit like they're doing now? 

People who drive cars with good mileage are subsidizing those who don't.
are you aware that da government is handing out vouchers with every hybrid car purchase? sounds like da subsidization is working da other way around chief.

cheap petro can and will be continue to be cheap because

A. we can depend on our own resources and not just be at da mercy of opec.

b. point to me da politician brave enough to tax gas so high that it will no doubt be passed along to da consumer in a myriad of ways (food transport, commodities, clothing, services)

and contrary to popular belief da UAW is 100% backing what im saying because they know it'll kill jobs...jobs they need to continue to operate their unions.
 
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