African Descendants ✊🏿 Black People - Americas, Africa, Caribbean Culture Discussion

[marikomorose]

Would You Do It? Woman Makes Two Female McDonald's Employees Quit On The Clock, Upped Their Pay & Hired Them To Work At Her Restaurant On The Spot!

 

[wr]

 

[gry60]

Island and Christianity has been a detriment to the black people of Africa. Religion is one of the biggest factors as to why outside people control 75% of the continent. Simple

I don't see how you can say that when African empires used both religions to expand their influence beyond their borders (Ethiopia towards the middle east and Western medieval kingdoms towards central/southern Africa) at a time when the same Christianity ushered the dark ages in Europe. Furthermore, your statement assumes that Africans were non-religious prior to the rise of those two religions on the continent.

A superficial view of religion in Africa makes it look like Christianity and Islam came in and completely displaced local religions when the reality is more complex. Both religions have always been integrated into local beliefs and customs with various degrees. In some cases, some African cultures even use Islam/Christianity to justify the practice of customs they had before they came into contact with those belief systems (female genital mutilation is an example and polygamy is another). It is still not uncommon to see Muslims and Christians who visit the local medicine man and believe in/practice animistic religions. There are even earlier examples of religious diffusion between African societies and the world: Ancient Egypt adopted deities and mythological stories from neighboring societies and later on, the worship of Egyptian deities spread throughout parts of Ancient Rome.

Internal conflicts, the lack of understanding of the motivations of European powers regarding Africa, and the lack of knowledge of internal European politics are a better explanation for the general decline of Africa than the adoption of Abrahamic religions.

 

[KHUFU]

I don't see how you can say that when African empires used both religions to expand their influence beyond their borders (Ethiopia towards the middle east and Western medieval kingdoms towards central/southern Africa) at a time when the same Christianity ushered the dark ages in Europe. Furthermore, your statement assumes that Africans were non-religious prior to the rise of those two religions on the continent.

A superficial view of religion in Africa makes it look like Christianity and Islam came in and completely displaced local religions when the reality is more complex. Both religions have always been integrated into local beliefs and customs with various degrees. In some cases, some African cultures even use Islam/Christianity to justify the practice of customs they had before they came into contact with those belief systems (female genital mutilation is an example and polygamy is another). It is still not uncommon to see Muslims and Christians who visit the local medicine man and believe in/practice animistic religions. There are even earlier examples of religious diffusion between African societies and the world: Ancient Egypt adopted deities and mythological stories from neighboring societies and later on, the worship of Egyptian deities spread throughout parts of Ancient Rome.

Internal conflicts, the lack of understanding of the motivations of European powers regarding Africa, and the lack of knowledge of internal European politics are a better explanation for the general decline of Africa than the adoption of Abrahamic religions.

Source?! Much of what you've stated is incorrect.

 

[gry60]

Source?! Much of what you've stated is incorrect.

Point out whatever you think is incorrect.

 

[goledensilence]

 

[gry60]

Who gets to define what's African and what isn't? People who are observing African cultures from outside, or those who participate in them and choose what to integrate in/exclude from their cultures? You won't blink if I say that Christianity is the white man's religion even though its origins are in the Middle East. How did it become the European religion, and why can't Africans decide to make it (or Islam) theirs too? Why is it hard for some members of the black diaspora to acknowledge that Africans have agency and have willingly used (in the past and today) religion as a means to further their own ambitions?

KHUFU
Look into comparative mythology: examine the belief systems of the ancient civilizations that arose around the Mediterranean Sea and you'll see the exchanges and similarities I wrote about.
Regarding the blending of Christianity/Islam with traditional African beliefs (religious syncretism), I drew examples from my own experience growing up in Cameroon and witnessing how Christian elements such as prayers/hymns were inserted in the performance of some of our traditional rituals (birth, marriage, burials, funerals), especially in villages. On the flip side, many African Christians/Muslims I know still believe in the supernatural as defined in traditional African religions and follow one or more customs derived from those beliefs. You can find scholarly articles about religious syncretism in Africa like the one below.

Chapter 3: Traditional African Religious Beliefs and Practices

Side by side with their high levels of commitment to Christianity and Islam, many people in the countries surveyed retain beliefs and rituals that are

www.pewforum.org

Side by side with their high levels of commitment to Christianity and Islam, many people in the countries surveyed retain beliefs and rituals that are characteristic of traditional African religions. In four countries, for instance, half or more of the population believes that sacrifices to ancestors or spirits can protect them from harm. In addition, roughly a quarter or more of the population in 11 countries say they believe in the protective power of juju (charms or amulets), shrines and other sacred objects. Belief in the power of such objects is highest in Senegal (75%) and lowest in Rwanda (5%). (See the glossary for more information on juju.)

In addition to expressing high levels of belief in the protective power of sacrificial offerings and sacred objects, upwards of one-in-five people in every country say they believe in the evil eye, or the ability of certain people to cast malevolent curses or spells. In five countries (Tanzania, Cameroon, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Senegal and Mali) majorities express this belief. (See the glossary for more information on the evil eye.)

In most countries surveyed, at least three-in-ten people believe in reincarnation, which may be related to traditional beliefs in ancestral spirits. The conviction that people will be reborn in this world again and again tends to be more common among Christians than Muslims.

The continued influence of traditional African religion is also evident in some aspects of daily life. For example, in 14 of the 19 countries surveyed, more than three-in-ten people say they sometimes consult traditional healers when someone in their household is sick. This includes five countries (Cameroon, Chad, Guinea Bissau, Mali and Senegal) where more than half the population uses traditional healers. While the recourse to traditional healers may be motivated in part by economic reasons and an absence of health care alternatives, it may also be rooted in religious beliefs about the efficacy of this approach.

 

[deusavertat]

my grandparents

 

[marikomorose]

ready to see what August brings us

this need to be here too, b/c i'm sick of this ****. it's that american arrogance & as far as the diaspora goes we may very well be the most detached from that continent for historical reasons.

not to say that i understand noname's criticism though b/c i share similar views w/ nike putting stuff like kente clothe on damn near every blm sneaker. that's not black american traditions.

 

[Nouss]

marikomorose go ahead and unpack this one.
I think the original quote is missing context. What did noname say or was trying to say that you disagree with?

 

[marikomorose]

marikomorose go ahead and unpack this one.
I think the original quote is missing context. What did noname say or was trying to say that you disagree with?

I not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing w/ noname's post directly b/c i can't. I haven't & likely won't see the beyonce video (not interested), but i can't stand the level of arrogant & ignorant views i've seen listened/seen a large amount of black americans have on black people from other countries & continents. They literally "speak for "them". It's like when ppl say all dominican's are black, that's just a dumb generalized rhetoric to have & place b/c not all dominican's are black.

These opposing views become even more ignorant/arrogant when you considered the fact that most of them never had a damn conversation w/ a black south african or a black dominican, & that they're confidently parroting propaganda from other insecure dumbasses. Not to mention a lot of the views these woke ppl have is down right hypocritical & stem from white supremest.

Anyway, here's a good article from a Burundian touching on the "we was kings & queens" stuff put out there:

 

[tay1]

Article aint saying much.

 

[KHUFU]

I loved Black Is King. I love how the ancestors are being called upon, through the examination of different beliefs. It’s about time. Good to see Black people finally waking up around the globe.

 

[Nouss]

marikomorose understood and i agree with the author of that article.

 

[KHUFU]

I not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing w/ noname's post directly b/c i can't. I haven't & likely won't see the beyonce video (not interested), but i can't stand the level of arrogant & ignorant views i've seen listened/seen a large amount of black americans have on black people from other countries & continents. They literally "speak for "them". It's like when ppl say all dominican's are black, that's just a dumb generalized rhetoric to have & place b/c not all dominican's are black.

These opposing views become even more ignorant/arrogant when you considered the fact that most of them never had a damn conversation w/ a black south african or a black dominican, & that they're confidently parroting propaganda from other insecure dumbasses. Not to mention a lot of the views these woke ppl have is down right hypocritical & stem from white supremest.

Anyway, here's a good article from a Burundian touching on the "we was kings & queens" stuff put out there:

I simply thought that it was a reintroduction of different African cultures, from a Black perspective. Usually, the perspective comes through the white prism, one that constantly shows poverty, abuse, and even more of a cartoon type state of being. The reintroduction of Black Gods and Goddesses is necessary as well, as the video also shows how the different cultures within countries in Africa and how they represent. I think we are aware that all were not Kings and Queens, and that there were wars and raids very present on the continent. However if left to the devices of white supremacy, they’d show us all fighting in loincloths, then yelling booga booga at each other. I applaud Beyonce for what she has done, as she also showcased Black talent without the presence of white exploitative methods. To control our own imagery, should be yet another step at independence. White people romanticize the hell out of their history, making it seem that they created everything, then ignoring how filthy and disgusting they actually are, given their plight against plagues and diseases, fast forward to covid. But they will leave you thinking that they are the leaders of civilization, of which has no cracks in their armor. Due to the circumstances for which Black people arrived upon these shores, it is only right to accurately remember a better time, in order to look forward toward a better future.

 

[layziegunts]

Black is king is beautiful by Beyonce

Black people supporting Black people, please stop with the unnecessary beef.

 

[wr]

First Black Air Force Chief of Staff sworn in.

Spoiler: Big Brain Thought

"Give em the flying gas guzzlers baby.
Space Force getting the "UFO's"

 

[goledensilence]

 

[gry60]

what is the obsession w/ blacks & post colonial africa abrahamic religions? surely those weren't the practices before this, so why not revert back to that if you choose to be religious? why y'all so bent on latching yourselves to that european ****?

Because they see the potential in benefiting from it. It goes back to point I made about reframing the role of Africans in the religious history of Africa as full participants and not just mere recipients of foreign belief systems.
Christianity has been present in Africa for 2000 years (Coptic Christians in Egypt and Orthodox-ish in Ethiopia). Islam has been there since the 9th century.
Religion in Africa is much more complex than it looks, and those of you interested in the dynamics between local religions and Abrahamic ones, especially around colonial times, should read African writers from that time.
A novel I would suggest is "The Poor Christ of Bomba" by Mongo Beti, written in 1956. The story is about a French missionary sent to Cameroon to "civilize" the "savages," only to realize later on that he and his religion are being used to access the secrets of money acquisition and technology (much like medieval West African rulers used Islam to gain access to the knowledge developed in the Arabian peninsula and open up trade routes with the rest of the Islamic world).

For two years Father Drumont has ignored the Talas-the most populous and most resistant to Christian conversion of the six tribes-depriving them of his spiritual nourishment, in hope that his starved "flock" would rush back upon his return. The novel begins at the end of his two-year moratorium, and it is an account of his two-week reflective tour of the Tala tribe. Father Drumont is shocked to discover that converts throughout the villages of Tala have not missed him. It becomes obvious to the reader that Father Drumont does not know his parishioners as he thought, the simple reason being he has never cared about them as people. His relationship with Denis, for example, is impersonally focused only on the chores that the lad performs in his house and church. It is not a holistic, father-son relationship that Denis assumes and seeks. Father Drumont's paternalism is consistent with the master-slave relationship and typifies the unequal nature of colonizer-colonized relationships. After living with the priest for two years, Denis does not know anything about Father Drumont's family or his homeland. His paternalistic view is also reflective of his relationship with converts throughout the Bomba Mission, which equally reflects France's view of the colonies. His only interest is in turning his parishioners away from their native traditions, converting them to Christianity, and collecting all kinds of membership dues for his church coffers.

As Father Drumont, who is also called Jesus Christ, makes his way through the Tala tribe, he finds out that almost all the churches he helped build (using forced labor) have fallen into disrepair. He grows pensively disturbed by the lack of "progress" in this region, and he learns from one of his own catechists, in the village of Timbo, an unsettling truth that has eluded him for twenty years; that is, the Talas have only half-heartedly accepted him and his Catholic religion because they felt, from the outset, that the path to the white man's secret power (money) is hidden in his church and school. Father Drumont asks his catechist: "Why is it, do you think that so many backslide from the true religion? Why did they come to mass in the first place?" (Beti 29). Accosted by Father Drumont, the catechist tells him what he doesn't want to hear: "My Father, at that time we were poor. Well, doesn't the kingdom of Heaven belong to the poor? So there is nothing surprising in many of them running to the true God. But nowadays, as you know yourself, Father, they are making pots of money by selling their cocoa to the Greeks" (Beti 29). Then Zacharia, Father Drumont's cook adds, "I will tell you just as it is, Father. The first of us who ran to religion, to your religion, came to it as a sort of [...] revelation. Yes, that's it, a revelation; a school where they could learn your secret, the secret of your power, of your aeroplanes and railways [...] in a word, the secret of your mystery. Instead of that, you began talking to them of God, of the soul, of eternal life, and so forth. Do you really suppose they didn't know those things already, long before you came? So of course, they decided that you were hiding something" (Beti 30). At every village during his tour of Tala, Father Drumont's obsession with Christian conversion is paramount. He wants to know if 1) church followers are paying their church dues, 2) the men have stopped marrying more wives, 3) babies are being born out of wedlock, and 4) Christians are refraining from traditional customs. Someone points out to him that the white settlers and administrators are not good Catholics either, and they don't see him imposing the same rules of restraint on them. As a result, they now see Father Drumont as one more white man standing in their way, with whom they must work as a matter of necessity.

Towards a poetics of decolonization: Mongo Beti's The Poor Christ of Bomba

 

[marikomorose]

I simply thought that it was a reintroduction of different African cultures, from a Black perspective. Usually, the perspective comes through the white prism, one that constantly shows poverty, abuse, and even more of a cartoon type state of being. The reintroduction of Black Gods and Goddesses is necessary as well, as the video also shows how the different cultures within countries in Africa and how they represent. I think we are aware that all were not Kings and Queens, and that there were wars and raids very present on the continent. However if left to the devices of white supremacy, they’d show us all fighting in loincloths, then yelling booga booga at each other. I applaud Beyonce for what she has done, as she also showcased Black talent without the presence of white exploitative methods. To control our own imagery, should be yet another step at independence. White people romanticize the hell out of their history, making it seem that they created everything, then ignoring how filthy and disgusting they actually are, given their plight against plagues and diseases, fast forward to covid. But they will leave you thinking that they are the leaders of civilization, of which has no cracks in their armor. Due to the circumstances for which Black people arrived upon these shores, it is only right to accurately remember a better time, in order to look forward toward a better future.

I understand the romanticism of time black ppl prior to the america's, it gives their lives more meaning similar to how ppl run to religion. It's a coping mechanism, it's uplifting, but the whole king & queen's is monarchy. Monarchy is trash, dangerous, & it exploits the weakness of others for social gain.

Now w/ the romanticization white ppl stay getting away w, I don't understand how they do it. Damn every cluster**** in the past few centuries can be linked to white ppl & their obsession w/ colonization. And since we came up in their system, naturally a considerable amount of their beliefs interlock w/ ours & a very prominent belief is the belief of oppression.

Because they see the potential in benefiting from it. It goes back to point I made about reframing the role of Africans in the religious history of Africa as full participants and not just mere recipients of foreign belief systems.
Christianity has been present in Africa for 2000 years (Coptic Christians in Egypt and Orthodox-ish in Ethiopia). Islam has been there since the 9th century.
Religion in Africa is much more complex than it looks, and those of you interested in the dynamics between local religions and Abrahamic ones, especially around colonial times, should read African writers from that time.
A novel I would suggest is "The Poor Christ of Bomba" by Mongo Beti, written in 1956. The story is about a French missionary sent to Cameroon to "civilize" the "savages," only to realize later on that he and his religion are being used to access the secrets of money acquisition and technology (much like medieval West African rulers used Islam to gain access to the knowledge developed in the Arabian peninsula and open up trade routes with the rest of the Islamic world).

Towards a poetics of decolonization: Mongo Beti's The Poor Christ of Bomba

thank u, this is a fairly interesting read. looking a physical copy of that book.

 

[KHUFU]

I understand the romanticism of time black ppl prior to the america's, it gives their lives more meaning similar to how ppl run to religion. It's a coping mechanism, it's uplifting, but the whole king & queen's is monarchy. Monarchy is trash, dangerous, & it exploits the weakness of others for social gain.

Now w/ the romanticization white ppl stay getting away w, I don't understand how they do it. Damn every cluster**** in the past few centuries can be linked to white ppl & their obsession w/ colonization. And since we came up in their system, naturally a considerable amount of their beliefs interlock w/ ours & a very prominent belief is the belief of oppression.

thank u, this is a fairly interesting read. looking a physical copy of that book.

 

[layziegunts]

Fellas stop what you’re doing and go watch Black is King

 

[Nouss]

Fellas stop what you’re doing and go watch Black is King

Bout to watch this with my sis right now.

 

[Master Zik]

 

[Nouss]