Air Jordan 6 retro “Carmine” - Nike Air - February 13, 2021

[ChiefChad-]

The buyer takes super priority over the seller every time on eBay. I dont know if it was in this thread but some guy got free zeezy's because of it lol

 

[g-time]

The buyer takes super priority over the seller every time on eBay. I dont know if it was in this thread but some guy got free zeezy's because of it lol

Yea that was because the seller shipped them straight to him instead of the authentication site.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Not if the seller doesn't accept returns.

Wait, so if it fails authentication, you’re stuck with it if the seller doesn’t accept returns?

 

[staffsgtdignam]

The buyer takes super priority over the seller every time on eBay. I dont know if it was in this thread but some guy got free zeezy's because of it lol

Yea that was because the seller shipped them straight to him instead of the authentication site.

Lol that was me and yeah they never shipped to the authenticator. I was honest with eBay about this and they gave me the Yeezys for free.

 

[g-time]

Wait, so if it fails authentication, you’re stuck with it if the seller doesn’t accept returns?

From what I read the authenticator won't ship them.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

I have to chime in, my self on this I dont trust them to legit check everything. Even when something passes through I still go and legit check it myself, there has been plenty that has gotten through the authentication process with these places. Replicas are so good nowadays you can never be too sure. Just my opinion.

Yep, doing a thorough LC with materials/craftsmanship and THEN actually precision weighing the shoes vs an authentic pair in that same size is the ideal way to accomplish a proper LC. Material weights will obviously vary from pair-to-pair in the same size BUT authentic pairs will use the same exact materials (from the same suppliers) so the variance when comparing authentic pairs to other authentic pairs will almost always be FAR less than the variance from an authentic pair to a fake/replica. My old roommate was a material scientist in the auto industry and actually told me this is one way how legit tires, etc. are able to be distinguished from fakes.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

From what I read the authenticator won't ship them.

Yeah this is super confusing, NobleKane had authenticators ship him custom Carmine 6s and then offer to help with a return? Maybe this was a mistake on eBay’s part and they’re trying to sort out issues like this since the service hasn’t been around that long.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Yep, doing a thorough LC with materials/craftsmanship and THEN actually precision weighing the shoes vs an authentic pair in that same size is the ideal way to accomplish a proper LC. Material weights will obviously vary from pair-to-pair in the same size BUT authentic pairs will use the same exact materials (from the same suppliers) so the variance when comparing authentic pairs to other authentic pairs will almost always be FAR less than the variance from an authentic pair to a fake/replica. My old roommate was a material scientist in the auto industry and actually told me this is one way how legit tires, etc. are able to be distinguished from fakes.

I think sometimes Jordans have slightly different materials when made in different factories. Or even if it's the same material it will look different when it comes from different factories.

The point is that there are noticeable differences between authentic pairs.

 

[kingsin]

Yeah this is super confusing, NobleKane had authenticators ship him custom Carmine 6s and then offer to help with a return? Maybe this was a mistake on eBay’s part and they’re trying to sort out issues like this since the service hasn’t been around that long.

I think noble got the carmines and they weren't customized at all which makes this authenticating service even more confusing

 

[staffsgtdignam]

I think sometimes Jordans have slightly different materials when made in different factories. Or even if it's the same material it will look different when it comes from different factories.

The point is that there are noticeable differences between authentic pairs.

I don’t think the rubber/EVA foam compounds will differ much though, that’s where density and whatnot will play a factor in weight. You are correct that sometimes right/left shoes are made in different factories though but, from my understanding, Nike has pretty strict standards on materials that are used on each release-obviously not in the sense that the materials are always what you would consider “quality” (a lot of times, far from it, it seems) just that the same materials are typically used in a release. Even then, if you have multiple authentic pairs available, you can even better create a window of standard variance from
authentic pairs to likely fakes.

 

[ogSlater]

Yep, doing a thorough LC with materials/craftsmanship and THEN actually precision weighing the shoes vs an authentic pair in that same size is the ideal way to accomplish a proper LC. Material weights will obviously vary from pair-to-pair in the same size BUT authentic pairs will use the same exact materials (from the same suppliers) so the variance when comparing authentic pairs to other authentic pairs will almost always be FAR less than the variance from an authentic pair to a fake/replica. My old roommate was a material scientist in the auto industry and actually told me this is one way how legit tires, etc. are able to be distinguished from fakes.

don't let these fake UA sites or shoemakers trick you.. they all say they use the same materials as authentic but just like the shoes, there are companies producing fake or counterfeit materials as well as shoes. them saying that their material is the exact same material is just like them saying the shoes are made in same factories or they are the same just unauthorized blah blah blah its all the same everything they use and produce these shoes with are not coming directly their respective brands so all of it is indeed fake. I can not stress this enough you can not believe anything these fake companies say.

 

[cparker33]

Check or call your local Champs. My area (Seattle) got their shipments in today! Was able to cop my size!
Hoping you guys score a pair! And Hoping this gives me some karma for the 1’s tomorrow!

good luck my dudes!

 

[truenike81]

 

[truenike81]

don't let these fake UA sites or shoemakers trick you.. they all say they use the same materials as authentic but just like the shoes, there are companies producing fake or counterfeit materials as well as shoes. them saying that their material is the exact same material is just like them saying the shoes are made in same factories or they are the same just unauthorized blah blah blah its all the same everything they use and produce these shoes with are not coming directly their respective brands so all of it is indeed fake. I can not stress this enough you can not believe anything these fake companies say.

 

[240282]

BSTN just reversed the charge on my card and I got my shoes in hand already! Free carmines lol

 

[240282]

BSTN just reversed the charge on my card and I got my shoes in hand already! Free carmines lol

 

[cparker33]

This release reminds of this song back in the day!

 

[staffsgtdignam]

don't let these fake UA sites or shoemakers trick you.. they all say they use the same materials as authentic but just like the shoes, there are companies producing fake or counterfeit materials as well as shoes. them saying that their material is the exact same material is just like them saying the shoes are made in same factories or they are the same just unauthorized blah blah blah its all the same everything they use and produce these shoes with are not coming directly their respective brands so all of it is indeed fake. I can not stress this enough you can not believe anything these fake companies say.

Right, hence why I’m advocating using a standard variable of authentic weight to measure authentication vs fakes. Even EVA foam compounds used by Nike will vary across releases (I.e. look at tooling 2014 BIR 6s vs 2019 BIR 6s, you can literally feel the difference in the compounds on your feet). And that’s with authentic pairs from release-to-release, fakes will have an even greater variance from these authentic release. And even if they get the weight close to say the foam in the tooling, for example, they would still have to match the weight of the leather, cushioning units, glue, stitching, plastic/rubber pieces (eye stays, etc.), and even dried paint. The variance in weight just becomes greater and greater when considering these factors and makes it insanely difficult for fakes/reps to be 1:1 on a material level.

That said, in no way am I saying Nike/JB’s QC is always good-the Carmine release showed they have massive issues in their supply chain and manufacturing.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Right, hence why I’m advocating using a standard variable of authentic weight to measure authentication vs fakes. Even EVA foam compounds used by Nike will vary across releases (I.e. look at tooling 2014 BIR 6s vs 2019 BIR 6s, you can literally feel the difference in the compounds on your feet). And that’s with authentic pairs from release-to-release, fakes will have an even greater variance from these authentic release. And even if they get the weight close to say the foam in the tooling, for example, they would still have to match the weight of the leather, cushioning units, glue, stitching, plastic/rubber pieces (eye stays, etc.), and even dried paint. The variance in weight just becomes greater and greater when considering these factors and makes it insanely difficult for fakes/reps to be 1:1 on a material level.

That said, in no way am I saying Nike/JB’s QC is always good-the Carmine release showed they have massive issues in their supply chain and manufacturing.

it’s way more nuanced than fakes not using the same materials or fakes using the same material

i have a friend that does legit checking for suedeone and I’ve been working as manufacturing engineer for the past 13 years. I’ve taken a look behind the curtain on more than a few occasions. Fakes are made in many different factories at many different levels. From what I’ve personally witnessed some fakes are really close and some just miss the mark. And there’s no rhyme or reason to it. For instance when my buddy was creating some legit checking resources for the midnight navy’s he had a few different fakes on hand of that shoe in particular. Material wise everything was exactly the same from a material perspective except for whatever reason the side on the retail was a shade darker than the fake pair. But the materials felt identical despite the difference in color. Fake pair on the left, authentic pair on the right.

but then on other shoes, there’s only bad fakes. I just recently bought a second pair for Travis Scott 1s that I needed authenticated and my friend could tell they were real from across the room because fakes don’t even use the same suede so it’s never the right color. Why? Who knows. I don’t work in clothing manufacturing but we do work with some Chinese manufacturing on our customers bill of materials. It’s the Wild West out there. Depending on who your supplier is, they’ll spray paint doodoo silver and sell it as electrical steel. While other suppliers make things to the precision we can’t even get here in the US. Literally nothing is unavailable. I wouldn’t be shocked at all is the large scale fake manufacturers have the same or similar suppliers as the big brands but they’ll sell the fake factories something “close” to what they sold the real factories maybe in an attempt to protect their legitimate contracts? Who knows. Long story short you never know what you’re getting when it comes to china. Make sure you trust where you’re getting your shoes from.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

it’s way more nuanced than fakes not using the same materials or fakes using the same material

i have a friend that does legit checking for suedeone and I’ve been working as manufacturing engineer for the past 13 years. I’ve taken a look behind the curtain on more than a few occasions. Fakes are made in many different factories at many different levels. From what I’ve personally witnessed some fakes are really close and some just miss the mark. And there’s no rhyme or reason to it. For instance when my buddy was creating some legit checking resources for the midnight navy’s he had a few different fakes on hand of that shoe in particular. Material wise everything was exactly the same from a material perspective except for whatever reason the side on the retail was a shade darker than the fake pair. But the materials felt identical despite the difference in color. Fake pair on the left, authentic pair on the right.

but then on other shoes, there’s only bad fakes. I just recently bought a second pair for Travis Scott 1s that I needed authenticated and my friend could tell they were real from across the room because fakes don’t even use the same suede so it’s never the right color. Why? Who knows. I don’t work in clothing manufacturing but we do work with some Chinese manufacturing on our customers bill of materials. It’s the Wild West out there. Depending on who your supplier is, they’ll spray paint doodoo silver and sell it as electrical steel. While other suppliers make things to the precision we can’t even get here in the US. Literally nothing is unavailable. I wouldn’t be shocked at all is the large scale fake manufacturers have the same or similar suppliers as the big brands but they’ll sell the fake factories something “close” to what they sold the real factories maybe in an attempt to protect their legitimate contracts? Who knows. Long story short you never know what you’re getting when it comes to china. Make sure you trust where you’re getting your shoes from.

But how would fakes EVER be able to replicate the weight of authentic shoes? Like even if they hypothetically nailed all the correct materials, look/colors, and craftsmanship, it’s damn near impossible to fake the weight of a shoe without using the exact same components. Since you’re an engineer as well, you understand the importance of gross material weights in logistics as well, keeping the variance down allows efficiencies across the supply chain since it allows for better logistics overall.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

But how would fakes EVER be able to replicate the weight of authentic shoes? Like even if they hypothetically nailed all the correct materials, look/colors, and craftsmanship, it’s damn near impossible to fake the weight of a shoe without using the exact same components. Since you’re an engineer as well, you understand the importance of gross material weights in logistics as well, keeping the variance down allows efficiencies across the supply chain since it allows for better logistics overall.

id have to have to see what kind of emphasis Nike puts into tolerances on weight. In my industry, weight isn’t a quality or performance metric. It’s just a biproduct of the material used and the the process used to make them. I’m sure there maybe reference to a nominal and maximum weight but based on how much textiles can vary because of so many different factories I don’t see any value added reasoning for fakes or Nike to put much emphasis on it as some strict characteristics. For non performance shoes atleast. I can’t say it’s the same for every factory producing fakes, but the higher end ones definitely boast some of the same technology that authentic factories do. I think the biggest source for variation is probably that the factories that a big brand would go with probably use a significant amount more automation

Edit. and when it comes to fakes. I don’t think the goal is more so to get something on the market that is retail adjacent rather than make exact copies. Those midnight navy’s were so close in almost every way it makes me think that the suede color being different is something that was done intentionally.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

id have to have to see what kind of emphasis Nike puts into tolerances on weight. In my industry, weight isn’t a quality or performance metrics. It’s just a biproduct of the material used and the the process used to make them. I’m sure there maybe reference to a nominal and maximum weight but based on how much textiles can vary because of so many different factories I don’t see any value added reasoning for fakes or Nike to put much emphasis on it as some strict characteristics. For non performance shoes atleast.

Well my point is moreso that it would be damn near impossible for fakes to replicate the actual weight of the shoes. You wouldn’t even need to look at the shoes to see they were fakes if you weighed them and had a reference point to how much authentic pairs weighed, relative to the size of the shoes.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Well my point is moreso that it would be damn near impossible for fakes to replicate the actual weight of the shoes. You wouldn’t even need to look at the shoes to see they were fakes if you weighed them and had a reference point to how much authentic pairs weighed, relative to the size of the shoes.

the assumption here is that the weight of these shoes has consistent and tight tolerances. That may be the case for modern performance lines, but for jordan retros? I don’t think that range would be small enough for the majority of those shoes for it to be a reliable indicator. Textiles, by nature, vary.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

the assumption here is that the weight of these shoes has consistent and tight tolerances. That may be the case for modern performance lines, but for jordan retros? I don’t think that range would be small enough for the majority of those shoes for it to be a reliable indicator. Textiles, by nature, vary.

Why would it be different for retros? The manufacturing standards are the same for the tooling, etc. based on the factories producing them. If you don’t believe me but have access to a precision scale, take two pairs of the same release in the same size that you’ve kept deadstock. If you look at the inner production tag and see the same range in manufacturing from each shoe you can actually use this method. I’ve actually tested this out with 2016 Space Jam 11s and 2018 Concord 11s (both releases I bought 4 pairs of) I’ve and found it to be quite accurate in the range. Granted this is a small sample size but, as you know, 11s are the largest produced of single retro releases.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Why would it be different for retros? The manufacturing standards are the same for the tooling, etc. based on the factories producing them. If you don’t believe me but have access to a precision scale, take two pairs of the same release in the same size that you’ve kept deadstock. If you look at the inner production tag and see the same range in manufacturing from each shoe you can actually use this method. I’ve actually tested this out with 2016 Space Jam 11s and 2018 Concord 11s (both releases I bought 4 pairs of) I’ve and found it to be quite accurate in the range. Granted this is a small sample size but, as you know, 11s are the largest produced of single retro releases.

like I said, I’d have to to see what those weight tolerances look like for any given shoe. Especially for less complex shoes like a jordan 1 which is essentially Leather rubber and glue. Unless you’re dealing with a fakes that’s leaving out whole components like air units, where is the room to deviate? Maybe in the construction of the soles? With the variation I’ve seen over the years in different retros, from overall shape to cuts of leather panels, I feel like there’s a lot of room for fakes to be near or at a weight requirement. Especially the more basic the shoes composition.

I think a good way to test consistency of Nike and it’s process is to take a bunch of shoes in the same model (like a jordan 1) and see what the difference in weight is across the left and the right shoe. And see how consistent that ratio is