Air Jordan's MJ didn't like

[tonytobacco]

not better than the 11

the 12 is like wearing a work boot on court
the 13 had those hard rubber pods that hurt the sides of your feet
the 14 fixed that but they had to put a weird tongue and collar on them. Plus they had zoom. Zoom (back then) caused tendonitis. I played all through high school in zoom. Day in and day out on zoom will F your knees up. Case in point; Jordan's nagging injury with the Wizards. It probably started at the end of the bulls run.

 

[rainking]

not better than the 11

the 12 is like wearing a work boot on court
the 13 had those hard rubber pods that hurt the sides of your feet
the 14 fixed that but they had to put a weird tongue and collar on them. Plus they had zoom. Zoom (back then) caused tendonitis. I played all through high school in zoom. Day in and day out on zoom will F your knees up. Case in point; Jordan's nagging injury with the Wizards. It probably started at the end of the bulls run.

I’ve seen this mentioned on NT before about zoom. Can you point me to a source/article on this? Every time it pops up on here I go searching but never find anything speaking about it. I loved zoom back then and do to this day. Never had an issue with it but that means nothing. Just interested to see some science on this subject.

 

[tonytobacco]

Im just speaking from experience. I was fine before zoom and then just fine afterward. It was a nightmare trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

 

[rainking]

Im just speaking from experience. I was fine before zoom and then just fine afterward. It was a nightmare trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

Roger that. I'm interested to know what the cause is. Like I mentioned, this has been said before about Zoom on NT but I can't find anything out there about it other than anecdotal mentions, and most of those are on NT and few and far between. I like Zoom more than any other version of Air because of the actual bounce it has. I just like feeling that. I generally don't like the foam-only cushioning of some modern Nike basketball shoes. My Kobe IXs, for instance, make me feel sluggish even just wearing them casually. I won't say they hurt me feet, but sometimes I feel like I'm in slow motion walking in them. Anyway, going along with the idea Zoom has caused at least some people issues, I wonder if that bounciness means the shoes don't absorb enough of the shock and instead transfer too much energy back into the legs/knees of the wearer.

 

[tonytobacco]

Youre starting to sound like my brain when I was trying to figure it all out. I ended up on it coming down to player size (Im probably Jordan's exact height and weight, which might explain our similar problems with it) combined with the technology back then with it where it might not have been stable enough/ inflated enough/ stacked enough/ padded enough etc etc.

To me its not going to get better than this set up right here;

Here they combined a nice thicc air sole with a full length carbon spring plate and good soft but not too soft midsole. Add in the support cradle of the patent and the light weight breathable mesh upper. Its perfect. .... aside from the issue with the tongue

 

[tonytobacco]

If they wouldve covered the whole interior with that liner at the heel section they probably wouldnt require double socks to play in. Then they wouldve been flawless in original form.

Looking at that cutaway Im just sitting here thinking that this thing is one of the most prime examples ever of form and function completely married together at such a high level in product design.

 

[rainking]

If they wouldve covered the whole interior with that liner at the heel section they probably wouldnt require double socks to play in. Then they wouldve been flawless in original form.

Looking at that cutaway Im just sitting here thinking that this thing is one of the most prime examples ever of form and function completely married together at such a high level in product design.

Agree completely dude. The XI's cushioning is amazing, the perfect blend of insole, midsole, encapsulated air sole ... it's just IT. Wore my new emerald green lows the other day and kept thinking, man, if every Nike I owned felt like this, I'd never say a word. All my XIs are like that. PISSED off that on one of my pairs of 2011 concord mids, that gray piece that is sewn into the sole beneath the insole came unglued on my left shoe after I started wearing them--just as house shoes, no less--a few months ago not long after I finally wore them for the first ever time after six years. I had the same issue back in '03 with the first retro of the black/red "i.e." lows. Bought four pairs. First pair, sent back after three months for the squeaking issue. Second pair, same thing. Then I sent back the other two pairs proactively. Maybe I should take my squeaking concords to a shoe repair place, have them unstitch that gray footbed liner piece and reglue it. The 2011 pair is, as we all know, wrong in so many ways, but the comfort is there thanks to that sole. Can't wait to quadruple with this year's concords. Then I'm set for all time LOL

 

[tonytobacco]

I wish Jordan Brand would do two things;

Make Jordan 1s and make Jordan 11s like they did the first time. Any small alteration to either one seriously reduces the final product. And those small alterations cant be saving that much money. The extra rubber that creates the arch in the midsole and the extra whatever to make the swoosh bigger on the 1 cant cost that much. The extra material at the collar and the proper bit of leather at the heel of the 11 cant cost that much.

I dont understand the corners they choose to cut. Id rather they spend the money they spend on the box and put it into the shoe if it means I can safely play basketball in them again lol.

 

[toneagain]

But a temporary business move to put a certain shoe on a statue that's gonna be around forever is hard to believe.

he retired right, so without getting into the conspiracy of whether he planned to return or not, the business move wouldn't be temporary, if he is retiring then that statue is far from temporary, it would be his lasting imagine at the arena..... it's not hard to believe once you realize retirement isn't suppose to be temporary

 

[tonytobacco]

I don't disagree with that. It may have been all about exposure for the 9. But a temporary business move to put a certain shoe on a statue that's gonna be around forever is hard to believe. When it got unveiled in 1994 the first the I looked at was the feet. The 9? Really? It might have been just the perfect shoe with 1994 on both outsoles. Personally I love the 9 being on it though. My wife and I have been to that statue. One of the coolest things to see really. I think its inside now. We went through the gate at night when it was still outside the UC.

A true artistic move wouldve been to leave the staue barefoot

 

[ARK]

not better than the 11

the 12 is like wearing a work boot on court
the 13 had those hard rubber pods that hurt the sides of your feet
the 14 fixed that but they had to put a weird tongue and collar on them. Plus they had zoom. Zoom (back then) caused tendonitis. I played all through high school in zoom. Day in and day out on zoom will F your knees up. Case in point; Jordan's nagging injury with the Wizards. It probably started at the end of the bulls run.

Didn’t zoom start at the 12? I recall Jordan was injured at some point so the 12 was constructed in a way to protect his foot. That’s why they feel like tanks.

 

[rainking]

Didn’t zoom start at the 12? I recall Jordan was injured at some point so the 12 was constructed in a way to protect his foot. That’s why they feel like tanks.

Zoom in Jordans started with the 12, but that's irrelevant. The 12s being built like tanks for the reason you cite is fake news, so to speak. No offense. MJ wasn't injured in terms of his feet wearing the XIs. And shoe development begins a good 18 months or so before those shoes debut, especially back then. People thought the Kobe IX ultra-hightop was developed because of his achilles injury but it had nothing to do with it. This is how "facts" get misrepresented yet become "true" on the internet and social media.

 

[tonytobacco]

I say it started with the 12 at some point but I think its been discussed and no 12 had it? Im not sure. I thought zoom found its way into the original bred 12. And if it didnt, then they didnt need to because that shoe had amazing cushioning. I remember zoom making its debut with the olympic pennys (zoom flight) but apparently I had it in my pair of these

? Though I clearly remember a heel air unit because of the clear window on the sole. But those olympic pennys came out the same season as the 12s if i recall correctly. So Id assume theyd try to get it into that year's air jordan. Then again, no Jordan got a full heel air max unit. Maybe they held off until they knew it was the right way forward.

I never heard of Jordan having foot problems with the 11 requiring the 12 to be a boot. It does reinforce my theory that Tinker originally designed the 12's carbon plate to wrap up and cradle the midfoot instead of having that weird out of place plastic piece that says jumpman on it. And on the rubber outsole I believe those grooves were supposed to be cut out to reveal the carbon beneath.

Im agine if that carbon went all the way up the side replacing that plastic tab, and those grooves were cut out completely.

Perhaps it was too expensive, perhaps it didnt feel good on foot. I cant help but see that omission though when I look at 12s.

I wish theyd let me do a Jordan x tonytobacco collab 12. There's so much I want to do to it to make it a true successor to the 11. I remember feeling so let down when I first saw them after anticipating all year what was coming next. First order of business would be to replace that leather upper with kevlar or other similar fabric to call back to the cordura mesh used on the 11. Then replace that weak sauce iguana print leather with actual high gloss reptile skin (gator, snake whatever) to call back to the patent on the 11. Id have a field day.

 

[lamekilla]

I think 6’s are the best on court IMO. They’re so secure and the traction is awesome

 

[tatayniDarna]

Zoom (back then) caused tendonitis. I played all through high school in zoom. Day in and day out on zoom will F your knees up. Case in point; Jordan's nagging injury with the Wizards. It probably started at the end of the bulls run.

nah. mj logged 44,000 minutes at the end of his bulls career.


he was 39 when he came back with the wiz. pretty sure age and mileage was the reason.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Crazy thing is Mike stuck with the 8 despite the athletes foot. The pain is unbearable.

I was watching a game from 1992 on YouTube and he started the game in the Wht/Red VII and switched to the white/carmine VI.

It blows my mind MJ won a championship in the VIs... Those things feel like cardboard. The VIIs were a huge step forward in terms of comfort, IMO.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

I think 6’s are the best on court IMO. They’re so secure and the traction is awesome

The cushioning is terrible though. Plus the weight doesn’t help. You are right that they have excellent lockdown and traction though.

 

[you go boy]

3, 11, were his tops. Colorways? idk. 12s and 13s are high on his list also because the design inspirations best fit his personality.

been saying the 1s are overrated for the longest... they are a good shoe but not top 5... even mike can cosign

 

[Thierry Henry]

I think 6’s are the best on court IMO. They’re so secure and the traction is awesome

Herringbone traction on the XII's >>>>>

 

[langfor5]

Maybe MJ had knee issues before he retired from the Bulls...but I always thought that the tendinitis in his knees became so much worse when he was with the Wizards because of his age, he was overweight, out of shape and pushed himself to hard to come back. You figure that in, plus the wear and tear from his years with the Bulls and he refused to sit or follow the Wizards minutes plan restrictions is why his knees were so bad.

 

[KanyIZZY]

I always remember XI's being super comfy back in the early 2000s. The 2011 Concords, Lows, and Cherry Lows from 2016 were all bricks. The Carolina lows felt much more softer like they did back when. This is a very insightful thread though.

 

[urbanmiracle]

Great thread

 

[tonytobacco]

It blows my mind MJ won a championship in the VIs... Those things feel like cardboard. The VIIs were a huge step forward in terms of comfort, IMO.

Imagine playing in 7s while everyone else is in 6s. Itd be hard to lose.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Imagine playing in 7s while everyone else is in 6s. Itd be hard to lose.

100%

I actually think the jump from 6-7 was arguably the most substantial jump in terms of comfort from one model to the next from the AJ I-XIV... I actually LOVE 6s but I wish they were more comfortable haha

 

[JRepp23]

100%

I actually think the jump from 6-7 was arguably the most substantial jump in terms of comfort from one model to the next from the AJ I-XIV... I actually LOVE 6s but I wish they were more comfortable haha

The 7 will always be my favorite shoe. Started this whole thing for me really. Always been surprised MJ never noted that model at all considering what he accomplished in them. MVP, Championship, Gold medal. That year solidified MJ being the best in the world, proved the first ring wasn't a fluke.