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- Sep 28, 2004
Update:
good observations and i agree cjb23. I just walked around my house with one 04 and one 08 on each foot. The biggest and only differences from just normalwalking, you can feel the heel of the 2008s on your ankle. is it the higher cut and lack of that extra padding, or either one? good question to ponder. Youfeel MORE support as its higher and tighter on your ankle, but does it come at a cost later on when you make cuts in the shoe. Making tennis like, bball likecuts with these, the ankle feeling doesnt go away. I can feel the digging and tension. This needs to soften up a bit to take it to that 2004 comfort level. Itsvery close though. It's not a bad feeling but with the 2004s, you dont feel anything, its just a shoe you put on and feel nothing really. thats a greatexecution of a shoe imo, when you feel nothing. The toebox is not as bad as i was expecting.. Stiff initially, i have a feeling these will loosen up a bit.Thats a big IF though. on my feet, unless i really focus on it, the stiffness isnt too noticeable. I think I would take the harder leather if its MOREdurable as a sacrifice to a bit more comfort.
lots of wait and sees and ifs with this model..
some photos of the toebox in "action". Both models are DS (albeit, being worn indoors for this "test")
Above, you see the hardier leather in the tiptoe bend position not really flexing or moving. the 2004s on the right almost look USED, the leather is soflexible and soft, its just really geared for that comfort. Durability for the 08s, the biggest issue and concern here wont be realized until months afterbeing worn and compared to. so its really a month long test phase of pros and cons, lol.
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The positives is that, the midsole zoom air feel essentially the same in both shoes.
where itll get interesting later on is, looking at the tongue and seeing if it now shifts around without the booty construction.
This is a huge claim and may be a bit premature, but from the early goings, I think I have found the best of both worlds here. As cjb was saying each model isexecuted for a different crowd, and I think they've done an excellent job.
I now have outdoor training shoes in the 2008s with the hardier leathers and materials. and the very very very soft feel of the 2004s left for the indoor gymtraining.
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Then again I have never tested my 04s to its limits outdoors for its durability. so i really dont know how "BAD" they can get or how fragile theyare. these are just assumptions and guesses. The 04 leather may be AS durable as the 2008s and because of the COSTS for the 2008s they choseto use the hardier leather. even the outsole I did not put to its limit. It will be interesting in the next few months if this $80 dollar model is moredurable, even if I take it to the gym for what i did with the 2004s.
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The biggest CON of the 2008 is the black pivot point on the outsole, which I still think is NOT XDR rubber. That was the biggest durability concern i had withthe 2004s.
The circular grooves are just a few centimeters wide and thick. I have feeling they will lose gripe rather quickly. I say the 2008s are not XDR rubber becausethe feel and look of the black pivot points on both 2004s and 2008s are identical. Now Im not an expert in chemsitry or material composition and dont have amicroscope, and UNLESS XDR rubber can be composed in the same way as the 2004 black pivot points, EACH shoe share the same feel, look, and imperfections, whenlooking closely. This leads me to believe, the XDR outsole claim, is restricted to the grey non see through bubble grooved middle.
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It'll be tough to take a wait and see approach to see if the harder materials PAID off, so i would recommend buying these right now before its too late,once again. But that recommedation comes with a warning. they are great SHOES, if and when the toebox softens up a bit and the higher heel softens up a bit.That would push them over that limit to where the 2004s currently are. so buy them being forewarned knowing the toebox and heel may or may not get better withtime.
Bottomline, as a basic shoe independent of what the 2004s were and without all the ifs, these are as comfortable as any other $80 dollar shoe Ive worn.
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cjb23, I would say these fit true to size. My sz 12 2000s have one finger width at the tip. my sz 12.5 tennis trainers 2008s have about 1 to 1.5 finger widths
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good observations and i agree cjb23. I just walked around my house with one 04 and one 08 on each foot. The biggest and only differences from just normalwalking, you can feel the heel of the 2008s on your ankle. is it the higher cut and lack of that extra padding, or either one? good question to ponder. Youfeel MORE support as its higher and tighter on your ankle, but does it come at a cost later on when you make cuts in the shoe. Making tennis like, bball likecuts with these, the ankle feeling doesnt go away. I can feel the digging and tension. This needs to soften up a bit to take it to that 2004 comfort level. Itsvery close though. It's not a bad feeling but with the 2004s, you dont feel anything, its just a shoe you put on and feel nothing really. thats a greatexecution of a shoe imo, when you feel nothing. The toebox is not as bad as i was expecting.. Stiff initially, i have a feeling these will loosen up a bit.Thats a big IF though. on my feet, unless i really focus on it, the stiffness isnt too noticeable. I think I would take the harder leather if its MOREdurable as a sacrifice to a bit more comfort.
lots of wait and sees and ifs with this model..
some photos of the toebox in "action". Both models are DS (albeit, being worn indoors for this "test")
Above, you see the hardier leather in the tiptoe bend position not really flexing or moving. the 2004s on the right almost look USED, the leather is soflexible and soft, its just really geared for that comfort. Durability for the 08s, the biggest issue and concern here wont be realized until months afterbeing worn and compared to. so its really a month long test phase of pros and cons, lol.
---------------------
The positives is that, the midsole zoom air feel essentially the same in both shoes.
where itll get interesting later on is, looking at the tongue and seeing if it now shifts around without the booty construction.
This is a huge claim and may be a bit premature, but from the early goings, I think I have found the best of both worlds here. As cjb was saying each model isexecuted for a different crowd, and I think they've done an excellent job.
I now have outdoor training shoes in the 2008s with the hardier leathers and materials. and the very very very soft feel of the 2004s left for the indoor gymtraining.
------
Then again I have never tested my 04s to its limits outdoors for its durability. so i really dont know how "BAD" they can get or how fragile theyare. these are just assumptions and guesses. The 04 leather may be AS durable as the 2008s and because of the COSTS for the 2008s they choseto use the hardier leather. even the outsole I did not put to its limit. It will be interesting in the next few months if this $80 dollar model is moredurable, even if I take it to the gym for what i did with the 2004s.
-------
The biggest CON of the 2008 is the black pivot point on the outsole, which I still think is NOT XDR rubber. That was the biggest durability concern i had withthe 2004s.
The circular grooves are just a few centimeters wide and thick. I have feeling they will lose gripe rather quickly. I say the 2008s are not XDR rubber becausethe feel and look of the black pivot points on both 2004s and 2008s are identical. Now Im not an expert in chemsitry or material composition and dont have amicroscope, and UNLESS XDR rubber can be composed in the same way as the 2004 black pivot points, EACH shoe share the same feel, look, and imperfections, whenlooking closely. This leads me to believe, the XDR outsole claim, is restricted to the grey non see through bubble grooved middle.
-----------------------------
It'll be tough to take a wait and see approach to see if the harder materials PAID off, so i would recommend buying these right now before its too late,once again. But that recommedation comes with a warning. they are great SHOES, if and when the toebox softens up a bit and the higher heel softens up a bit.That would push them over that limit to where the 2004s currently are. so buy them being forewarned knowing the toebox and heel may or may not get better withtime.
Bottomline, as a basic shoe independent of what the 2004s were and without all the ifs, these are as comfortable as any other $80 dollar shoe Ive worn.
--------------
cjb23, I would say these fit true to size. My sz 12 2000s have one finger width at the tip. my sz 12.5 tennis trainers 2008s have about 1 to 1.5 finger widths
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