Antihero appreciation

[donmega]

 

[mmg]

Originally Posted by goldenarmz97

idk how we forgot about dexters swag

 

[Mcflyy]

 

[hybridsoldier23]

3 pages and no one posted my dude?

 

[jbpkickz]

 

[iYen]

at the dude from no country for old men being an antihero. That dude is definately a villian.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

 

[jordanjayyy7]

 

[blakep267]

Yea, I dont think people got the meaning. SOA arent anti-heros. They may show glimpses of morals here and there. but they still sell drugs and kill people. its just we are seeing the show from their POV and also given characters that are worse than they are

And for Itachi. Id say he was a hero. He sacrificed everything for peace. There was no other way around it. The uchiha were going to revolt. And the council didnt agree with the plan of action laid out by the 3rd hokage. So Itachi did what he did, to retain the honor of his clan, and also save his brother. Thats pretty heroic in my eyes. The rest was just an act

 

[ill legal operation]

 

[albooboo5]

Originally Posted by iYen

at the dude from no country for old men being an antihero. That dude is definately a villian.

Exactly. Llewellyn was the antihero. Chigurh was the villian. Bell was the "good guy"

 

[floatover]

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by solarius49

How are Wolverine and Batman antiheroes though? Wolverine is a straight up hero who may be slightly more violent than average. Batman is a member of the Justice League lol, he is a straight up hero too, especially since he wont kill anybody.

Heroes have been romanticized and put on pedestals to the degree that the #1 rule about them is they don't kill. Wolverine is the X-Man/Avenger that kills. He got a free ride with Xavier doing that (Prof. X brought him specifically cuz he was willing to do that), Iron Man basically said this is the "different" kind of hero we need. When I say he kills I don't mean in a tough situation or after some heavy thought. Son is killing all the time, like when Spider-Man is fighting henchmen Wolverine is clawing their guts out. He just recently (unknowingly) killed his own children cuz they were hired to kill him. The acceptance of him has made it make more sense why nobody goes after Punisher.

I'm not sure about Bats unless you're talking about the Batman that kills.

 

[solarius49]

I disagree, Woverine is always considered a killer because he fights with claws. He honestly uses no more extreme deadly force than Cyclops blasting people with optic blasts or Iron Man using the powers of his suit. I mean come on, Hawkeye shoots arrows at people. And by "his own children" do you mean Daken and X-23? If he killed them then he was just putting 2 mass murderers to death. Im not gonna lie, he is definitely on the fringe, but I'd say hes a hero

 

[2sappy]

Originally Posted by RetroSan

Originally Posted by DjMystery2003

Lets not forget these

 

[rfx45]

Bats can be considered an anti-hero simply because he is willing to hurt people and to a certain degree threaten to extreme measures to get the result he wants, whether it's a bluff or not is up to the readers to decide. He is still a full-fledge hero though but keep in mind that he is also often called a vigilante. People seem to have different meanings for the term "anti-hero" so it's up to you to decide whether Batman fits in that mould.

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Bats can be considered an anti-hero simply because he is willing to hurt people and to a certain degree threaten to extreme measures to get the result he wants, whether it's a bluff or not is up to the readers to decide. He is still a full-fledge hero though but keep in mind that he is also often called a vigilante. People seem to have different meanings for the term "anti-hero" so it's up to you to decide whether Batman fits in that mould.

If you say Batman, then you have to say Spider-man too.  They are both vigilantes, and have been aggressively pursued by the law

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by solarius49

I disagree, Woverine is always considered a killer because he fights with claws. He honestly uses no more extreme deadly force than Cyclops blasting people with optic blasts or Iron Man using the powers of his suit. I mean come on, Hawkeye shoots arrows at people. And by "his own children" do you mean Daken and X-23? If he killed them then he was just putting 2 mass murderers to death. Im not gonna lie, he is definitely on the fringe, but I'd say hes a hero

How can you disagree when Wolverine actually kills ppl all the time? He actually kills ppl and wants to do it. This isn't about considering himself to be a killer. He aint just killing ppl with his claws. This has nothing to do with what weapons a hero uses anyway. You're ignoring the kind of villain Iron Man fights on a daily basis. In his fights he's not aiming to kill them. Regardless he controls how much deadly force he uses when fighting, Same with Spider-Man. Wolverine is aiming to kill 9 times out of 10. Cyclops can actually adjust and control the force of his optic blasts. Wolverine isn't controlling how far his claws go through your chest. It's all the way through unless he's torturing you.

You should read the comics before you start talking. About 9 of Wolverine's kids were hired to kill him and attacked him while working for the Red Right Hand, a group dedicated to getting revenge on dude. He slaughtered them all and then they told him they were his kids.

Not to mention Wolverine is currently running a black ops group to kill all mutant threats. The fact that you even tried to justify Wolverine killing Daken or X-23(which he did not) proves he's an anti-hero. Heroes aren't suppose to kill the villains, that's what makes them heroes saving the day without doing it the villain's way. There's countless examples of Wolverine being an anti-hero and killing ppl. Son kidnapped and tortured a child most of his life just to groom him in to being a killer like himself for Weapon X. There's plenty more wild !*%@ he's done that makes him an anti-hero.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by solarius49

Originally Posted by RFX45

Bats can be considered an anti-hero simply because he is willing to hurt people and to a certain degree threaten to extreme measures to get the result he wants, whether it's a bluff or not is up to the readers to decide. He is still a full-fledge hero though but keep in mind that he is also often called a vigilante. People seem to have different meanings for the term "anti-hero" so it's up to you to decide whether Batman fits in that mould.

If you say Batman, then you have to say Spider-man too.  They are both vigilantes, and have been aggressively pursued by the law

Some actually do say that but the way I see it, Batman is willing to go to extremes. Like when threatened to destroy Apokolips if Darkseid didn't release control of Kara. Bats is also willing to injure his opponents as long as it doesn't kill them. Just seems like SpiderMan is a lighter version of what Batman is willing to do so again, interpretation is up in the air. 

 

[kramer]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Bats can be considered an anti-hero simply because he is willing to hurt people and to a certain degree threaten to extreme measures to get the result he wants, whether it's a bluff or not is up to the readers to decide. He is still a full-fledge hero though but keep in mind that he is also often called a vigilante. People seem to have different meanings for the term "anti-hero" so it's up to you to decide whether Batman fits in that mould.

Batman might be one cuz like you said he is a vigilante, he fights on his own whim not necessarily what is lawful but more of what he wants. Deff more of a hero though IMO

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by solarius49

I disagree, Woverine is always considered a killer because he fights with claws. He honestly uses no more extreme deadly force than Cyclops blasting people with optic blasts or Iron Man using the powers of his suit. I mean come on, Hawkeye shoots arrows at people. And by "his own children" do you mean Daken and X-23? If he killed them then he was just putting 2 mass murderers to death. Im not gonna lie, he is definitely on the fringe, but I'd say hes a hero

How can you disagree when Wolverine actually kills ppl all the time? He actually kills ppl and wants to do it. This isn't about considering himself to be a killer. He aint just killing ppl with his claws. This has nothing to do with what weapons a hero uses anyway. You're ignoring the kind of villain Iron Man fights on a daily basis. In his fights he's not aiming to kill them. Regardless he controls how much deadly force he uses when fighting, Same with Spider-Man. Wolverine is aiming to kill 9 times out of 10. Cyclops can actually adjust and control the force of his optic blasts. Wolverine isn't controlling how far his claws go through your chest. It's all the way through unless he's torturing you.

You should read the comics before you start talking. About 9 of Wolverine's kids were hired to kill him and attacked him while working for the Red Right Hand, a group dedicated to getting revenge on dude. He slaughtered them all and then they told him they were his kids.

Not to mention Wolverine is currently running a black ops group to kill all mutant threats. The fact that you even tried to justify Wolverine killing Daken or X-23(which he did not) proves he's an anti-hero. Heroes aren't suppose to kill the villains, that's what makes them heroes saving the day without doing it the villain's way. There's countless examples of Wolverine being an anti-hero and killing ppl. Son kidnapped and tortured a child most of his life just to groom him in to being a killer like himself for Weapon X. There's plenty more wild !*%@ he's done that makes him an anti-hero.

I see your point, and yeah since I've been in the military its been really hard to keep up with newer issues, so I'm just going with what I know of the character.  But another thing that I think keeps him on the side of the hero, is that he is rarely opposed by other hero characters (atleast as far as I know, I've been out of touch for a few years).  I dont see how him killing 9 people who were sent to kill him would make him a "killer", especially if he's defending himself

 

[AEA18]

 

[solarius49]

I always considered an anti hero to be a "sympathetic villain who occasionally finds himself on the side of the good guys" despite the dictionary definition. ie Juggernaut, Magneto, Venom
and the Thunderbolts!

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by Mark Antony

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

How are they antihero?

Tony Soprano is the definition of an antihero bud.

And I think Hannibal would qualify, no? In Silence of the Lambs he works with the protagonist (Clarice) to catch the main antagonist, Buffalo Bill.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by solarius49

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by solarius49

I disagree, Woverine is always considered a killer because he fights with claws. He honestly uses no more extreme deadly force than Cyclops blasting people with optic blasts or Iron Man using the powers of his suit. I mean come on, Hawkeye shoots arrows at people. And by "his own children" do you mean Daken and X-23? If he killed them then he was just putting 2 mass murderers to death. Im not gonna lie, he is definitely on the fringe, but I'd say hes a hero

How can you disagree when Wolverine actually kills ppl all the time? He actually kills ppl and wants to do it. This isn't about considering himself to be a killer. He aint just killing ppl with his claws. This has nothing to do with what weapons a hero uses anyway. You're ignoring the kind of villain Iron Man fights on a daily basis. In his fights he's not aiming to kill them. Regardless he controls how much deadly force he uses when fighting, Same with Spider-Man. Wolverine is aiming to kill 9 times out of 10. Cyclops can actually adjust and control the force of his optic blasts. Wolverine isn't controlling how far his claws go through your chest. It's all the way through unless he's torturing you.

You should read the comics before you start talking. About 9 of Wolverine's kids were hired to kill him and attacked him while working for the Red Right Hand, a group dedicated to getting revenge on dude. He slaughtered them all and then they told him they were his kids.

Not to mention Wolverine is currently running a black ops group to kill all mutant threats. The fact that you even tried to justify Wolverine killing Daken or X-23(which he did not) proves he's an anti-hero. Heroes aren't suppose to kill the villains, that's what makes them heroes saving the day without doing it the villain's way. There's countless examples of Wolverine being an anti-hero and killing ppl. Son kidnapped and tortured a child most of his life just to groom him in to being a killer like himself for Weapon X. There's plenty more wild !*%@ he's done that makes him an anti-hero.

I see your point, and yeah since I've been in the military its been really hard to keep up with newer issues, so I'm just going with what I know of the character.  But another thing that I think keeps him on the side of the hero, is that he is rarely opposed by other hero characters (atleast as far as I know, I've been out of touch for a few years).  I dont see how him killing 9 people who were sent to kill him would make him a "killer", especially if he's defending himself

I forgot to mention that he came to kill them because they were working for the group that were responsible for literally sending his soul to hell while his body was possessed by a demon and went around hurting his friends. After that he was looking for revenge and ended up killing his own kids. The ppl responsible all committed suicide to screw him out of a kill.

People disagree with him in other books about killing all the time. In his own titles though he usually has no one to oppose him which is why he gets away with it like when he killed Sabertooth. Son wanted to kill the Scarlet Witch too (I agreed with him there).

I don't see anything wrong with him being an antihero though. I like and prefer him that way. It's guys like Cap, Spidey, etc. who are delusional.