Any feelings now with another (soon to be historically) "bizarre" trade of the Wizards?

[2guard]

we need a winning attitude and culture that starts at the top.....

 

[codeivc]

Originally Posted by eyes of hazel

I'm a fan of the home team (die-hard 20+ years), but I keeps it funky.

Name the last lottery draft pick we initially drafted, developed, and that player fulfilled or surpassed his initial "potential"?????

[Katt Williams] "Don't worry, I'll wait...................................................."

.C./Wizards is dooms day to draftees...

in all fairness.. look at who we had drafting all these years.. unseld then jordan then grunfeld.. and really all grunfeld's done is pick michael redd.

 

[eyes of hazel]

^
So in two decades plus STRAIGHT you gonna blame individuals?

Comical.

From this organization breaking their necks to draft Tom Hammond, to picking Cheaney at #6 over Allan Houston as the "future", etc.

It's embedded in the franchise. You can't point the finger at one person.

Atleast now, the guy they should have drafted over Nick Young a couple years ago (Sean Williams) is now available...

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by djeo23

Originally Posted by Im Not You

What's everyone's thoughts on this deal now?

I'm up in the air about it but the fact that we have some expiring contracts helps a bit. Rubio would have taken years to develop/transition. I like Miller. He plays hard for our team and probably is the least selfish player on the team, along with Boykins. We're in the John Wall sweepstakes now.

Seriously?

He's played a grand total of 11 games.

Also, Rubio wouldn't have come here anyway. His handlers were very adamant about him not wanting to play here. But based off of value alone...he certainlywould net more in a trade then Foye/Miller.

 

[codeivc]

Originally Posted by eyes of hazel

^
So in two decades plus STRAIGHT you gonna blame individuals?

Comical.

From this organization breaking their necks to draft Tom Hammond, to picking Cheaney at #6 over Allan Houston as the "future", etc.

It's embedded in the franchise. You can't point the finger at one person.

Atleast now, the guy they should have drafted over Nick Young a couple years ago (Sean Williams) is now available...

im not completely placing the blame on individuals, but who you draft is jus as important as how you develop them, right? if we're talkin last 20 years,have we really drafted any more than a small handful of players who were more than just aite?

 

[eyes of hazel]

^
I'm with you 100%.

But that stance is 50/50 in my opinion.

Players would have developed better without being in Landover/D.C. And "great" lose their edge here.

And draftees who had the potential to be all-stars, did it elsewhere.

Sheed is my prime example. He has always been a knucklehead, but you can't take away what he did in Portland and Detroit.

He would have been Kwame before Kwame if he stayed in a Bullets uni.

The historical proof is there.

 

[mikeisoriginal]

smh... men as a wizards fan this +@%%##! hurts i swear

 

[codeivc]

EOH, i agree wit you, but i also dont know if its true that sheed wouldnt of gotten to the level he was at if he stayed here.

kwame.. man, i dont know if jordan/wiz was the ONLY reason he didnt ever amount to anything. i read the book 'when nothing else matters' that went indepth about jordan's time here basically laying down the groundwork that MJ was the main catalyst for kwame's failures, but he had the opportunity tosucceed in other places and still hasnt made anything of himself.

we dont draft particularly, and when we do (once in forever) we dont have the culture for rookies to survive and thrive.

 

[ez primo]

Originally Posted by eyes of hazel

^
So in two decades plus STRAIGHT you gonna blame individuals?

Comical.

From this organization breaking their necks to draft Tom Hammond, to picking Cheaney at #6 over Allan Houston as the "future", etc.

It's embedded in the franchise. You can't point the finger at one person.

Atleast now, the guy they should have drafted over Nick Young a couple years ago (Sean Williams) is now available...

I think you can point the finger at one person and that is/was the Owner... RIP Abe, but he was/is the problem the franchise is what it is...
Lets see when Leonsis takes over if the culture changes for the wiz franchise...

What i would like to see now is dump the players we got... I can't believe i thought with this squad we have this season we were going to win 45/50 gamesthis season..

 

[eyes of hazel]

I apologize if I sound "crabby"...

But you gotta cut me a little slack.

I was forced to watch on Ledell Eackles and John Williams at the Capital Center for years, as local fans were cheering on the opposing team.

No one knows the hurt I've endured... Well, some of us...

My highlights here in over 20 years are when Rod Strickland (1st round v. Chicago) and Juan Dixon (advance to 2nd round) were in uniform.

I remember Wilbon RIPPING the Bullets in the Post for not drafting Kevin Garnett, as the trade for Strickland for Wallace took a year to complete (that tradewas suppose to happen on draft day).

All I gotta say is, Steve Blake is still an effective pro,elsewhere.................................................................................................

 

[hella handsome]

Originally Posted by Swish 22


http:// [h3]Jamison's championship vision[/h3]
10:51AM ET

[h5]Antawn Jamison | Wizards[/h5]
Top Email


The Washington Wizards have been plagued by injuries the last few season and Antawn Jamison believes they can compete for a championship if they stay healthy.

"I've been around here for six years and championship talk wasn't a norm around our locker room. That's all we're talking about now," Jamison tells The Washington Post. "If we stay healthy, I think we can compete with the upper echelon of the NBA.

"We won 19 games last year and I'll be honest with you, we didn't have a lot of our horses. But I don't have anything else to play for. I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat things because it's not the right thing to say. I believe it. I believe playing the game the right way and staying healthy, we can compete with Boston, we can compete with Cleveland and Orlando and if you can compete with those teams, you can put yourself in that category as far as teams that can contend for a championship."

to quote Rick Patino slightly...."Wes Unseld ain't walking through that door"....again the confidence is a good sign, but lots of question marks.

$%#* NO

tell Jamison to sit down...

 

[codeivc]

^ umm. why did you jus post that article?

 

[INTLplayers]

[h2][/h2]

[h2]Mavs, Wizards talking multiplayer deal[/h2]

Comment http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=4909238#/sendtofriend.espn.go.com/sendtofriend/SendToFriend?URL=http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nb...ources: Mavs-Wizards trade talks turn serious">http://sendtofriend.espn....20talks...le,noscrollbars,width=400,height=500');return false;">Email Print http:///a.espncdn.com/icons/share-icon-12x12.png)">http://a.espncdn.com/icons/share-icon-12x12.png) no-repeat scroll left top; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Share
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Archive

The Washington Wizards and Dallas Mavericksare closing in on a multi-player trade that will launch Washington'slong-anticipated rebuilding project in earnest and send Wizardsmainstays Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to the Mavericks, according to sources close to the situation.

Althoughthe deal could take until Monday to be finalized, sources said that theteams have essentially agreed on the principal pieces: Butler, Haywoodand DeShawn Stevenson to Dallas for Josh Howard and Drew Gooden.

The Mavericks must add additional low-dollar contracts to the deal to make the salary-cap math work -- candidates include Tim Thomas, Quinton Ross and James Singleton -- but are not expected to surrender prized rookie guard Roddy Beaubois in the swap.

[h4]More on the Mavs[/h4]

News, notes and analysis of the Mavericks from ESPNDallas.com's Jeff Caplan, Tim MacMahon and the rest of our team. Blog.

Sources told ESPN.com that the teams' negotiations only grewmore serious and, barring an unexpected late snag, will result in thetrade that will serve as the first major domino to fall to loosenthings up in advance of Thursday's annual trading deadline.

Severalsources with direct knowledge of the teams' discussions said Fridaythat the teams were closing in on a final trade construction that willenable Washington to truly launch its rebuilding efforts, realizesignificant financial relief in the midst of a disastrous season andachieve all those aims without giving up forward Antawn Jamison, which is the Wizards' preference.

Thepossible acquisitions of Butler and Haywood, meanwhile, would be awelcome spark for the sputtering Mavericks, with Butler moving into thespot vacated by Howard and Haywood arriving as another rim-protectingdefensive anchor in the wake of a knee injury that has compromised theeffectiveness of Mavs center Erick Dampier.

AcquiringHaywood and having the chance to re-sign him this summer would likelyfill the void Dallas thought it filled last summer, when the Mavssigned Orlando center Marcin Gortat to a lucrative offer sheet, only for the Magic to unexpectedly match the offer to the restricted free agent.

Washingtonwould inevitably want Beaubois added to the deal, but Mavs owner MarkCuban said earlier this week that his young point guard is "pretty muchuntouchable" as Thursday's trade deadline approaches. But sources saythe Wizards are gaining so much payroll and luxury-tax relief -- whilealso keeping Jamison -- that they couldn't pass on Dallas' offer.

The Wizards have been talking to several teams for weeks about deals involving Butler and Haywood, most notably Houston with Tracy McGrady's$22.5 million expiring contract. But talks with Dallas had stalled inthe past week, partly because of Washington's insistence that theMavericks take guard Stevenson in any Butler deal.

The potentialfor acquiring two front-line players -- since Butler and Haywood wouldimmediately become key rotation players for Dallas -- renewed the Mavs'interest and convinced them to relent on Stevenson.

Speaking to agroup of reporters Thursday, Cuban said: "We kind of know theparameters [under] which we would make a deal. If somebody meets ourparameters, we'll pull the trigger. But if not, we're not going to doit. I don't see us doing something just to do something because that'llkill our flexibility this summer. But in the event that there'ssomebody that really upgrades our talent and really makes our teambetter, then maybe we'll do it."


*heavy sigh*.. looks like Wood and Butler are outta here..we're looking at the future here, but I am very sad to see these two go

 

[mytsharp]

Me too joe...me too.

My-T.

 

[eyes of hazel]

I don't know how I feel about "Juice" being the 1st one to pack his bags.

But that's the reason I'm a Bullets fan.

Josh Howard is back on the East, at home, so we'll see if that is a plus or minus.

 

[play2much2004]

LOL Josh Howard to the Wizards

 

[Methodical Management]

Here we go again.


It seems a foregone conclusion, a rhetorical question on par with the location of ursine dumping grounds:  are the Wizards destined to suck forever?

The token consolation I've been offered following this latest debacle basically falls into three categories:

1) They [Haywood and Butler] are going to a better place.  You should be happy for them. 

This line doesn't work when our pets pass away.  I'm not sure why it ought to offer me solace now.  It brought me no refracted, vicarious joy to see Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton win a title in Detroit.  Watching Dallas flame out in the 2nd round, yet have every asset necessary to pull off a major move this summer, will feel more like salt than anesthetic for our wounds. 

2) They needed to shed salary so someone will buy the team.

The last thing Wizards fans should want is another miserly owner.  I'd be happier if the price of entry were so ludicrously high that only a first class narcissist whose only interest is winning could afford it. 
I'd take the Nets in five years versus the Wizards, for that reason alone.

Ted Leonsis controlling the franchise could turn out to be the deliverance long-suffering Wizards fans have hoped for.  There's a reason why Caps games now preempt Wizards games on Comcast SportsNet.  Evidently, people would rather watch a winning hockey team than another atrocious Wizards squad.  I've never been a hockey fan, but I can't say I disagree.  If given the choice, you'd rather show up to a party wearing the most stylish sweats you can imagine than the world's ugliest suit.  $15 million in salary savings isn't going to deter Ted Leonsis and you're committing to losing at least that much in ticket sales and merchandising by selling a product that makes a new Toyota look like a Consumer's Digest Best Buy.  After all, at least the 2010 Prius wasn't designed to fail.  I can't say the same for the 2010 Washington Wizards. 

If I'm looking to buy a team, I'd rather buy a team with some assets to manipulate than a team that's been gutted.  At least in the case of the former, I have the option to gut it myself.

Grunfeld has to know he's gone whenever the next owner takes over.  Why even make this move?  Just fall on your sword.  This is as lopsided as trades get.  At least Memphis got Pau Gasol's younger, fatter, slower brother in the Kwame Brown deal.  What do we have to show for our former All Star? 

That leads us to the final, and most substantial, rationale for this latest disaster.


3) The Wizards had to start over.

Obviously, but since when does "start over" mean, "start over with no assets?"  Name a team that's committed talent suicide and accomplished anything other than EXTEND their rebuilding time? 
By definition, "suck and have a chance at a surefire superstar in the draft" has only proven reliable at accomplishing one thing: losing.  A lot.  Ask Donald Sterling.

Let's reacquaint ourselves with grim reality for a moment.  You're NOT going to come away with a top tier free agent in 2010.  I've been saying this for at least a year and a half now.  League revenues are, and have been, in a state of free-fall.  Why Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, or even Joe Johnson would sign with the Wizards with even one other option available is beyond logic.  If they want to stay on underachieving clubs, they can sign with their own teams and benefit from an additional year - which is crucial considering the hit max players will take in the pocketbook once the new CBA goes into effect. 

IF we see top tier free agents switching jerseys this summer, odds are it'll be the result of a sign and trade.  Generally, one needs assets to make a sign and trade work.  The Wizards have systematically dumped theirs.  Now all you have is cap room (which will amount to less than one might think when the ceiling invariably falls) with which, in all probability, they can do little more than overpay for second or third rate talent like the Detroit Pistons did this season, the fruits of the disastrous Allen Iverson trade.  They're now stuck with overpaid, incompatible pieces in Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva. 

Butler's easier to move than Jamison.  He has a friendlier contract, he's a versatile player, and he's willing to play defense.  Haywood was already coming off the books at the end of the year anyway.  He's one of the better centers in the league (which tells you a little something about the state of that position) and he has value both to teams without a center as well as to squads in search of a first rate backup for foul (or injury) prone bigs.  You can get something better than nothing for those two players.  We traded both simply to dump Deshawn, whose salary wouldn't be the difference between Washington landing Wade or Lebron anyway.  Your one goal in any Dallas trade, at its onset, was to pick up a young player like Beaubois - a nonlottery 1st round prospect who may or may not amount to anything - and you didn't even achieve that. 

At least the rumored Portland alternative offered something in the way of young talent. 

Why not wait until the ping pong balls have already settled, find out if a team in contention winds up with a good pick or a young player to spare, and make your move then?  Do what Oklahoma City did.  Yes, they lucked into KD, but they made their move with Ray Allen to grab Jeff Green - and that worked out for both clubs.  Boston took home the championship, OKC (then Seattle), secured the foundation for their future.  Cap space in and of itself is pyrite.  Good players can sign anywhere and, all things being equal, they'd prefer to sign with a contending club.  Put the Knicks' roster and salary space in DC: will Lebron James play for you?  Please.  He'd sooner sign with Lottomatica, which, ironically enough, should be the Wizards new nickname for the next 4 years.

If you're a loser in an average market, all you can do is OVERPAY (Baron Davis to LA, Brand to Philly, and Detroit's '09 splurge are a few of the most recent examples that spring to mind.)  If you have an ALL STAR player to move, at LEAST get yourself an extra pick in the draft.  If a rookie doesn't work out, so be it.  Young players are easy to move.  Their contracts are negligible.  Suckers will gamble on a "high ceiling" player for years.  (See Milicic, Darko.)  If you overpay for a free agent, as Wizards fans know, you're stuck for years.  That's what we're really setting ourselves up for - four years of injured Carlos Boozer and Gilbert Arenas, with hope meted out annually via draft pick probability. 

Does it make sense to tell Chris Bosh, "Hey, you'll love playing with Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison"?  Is that compelling - without aid of a time machine to 2006?  At least Butler's a piece that would've fit with Bosh.  Swing a 3 team sign and trade with Jamison and bring in Bosh to play with Butler.  As it stands, Toronto retains his Bird rights, can offer an extra year, and their talent level is not only comparable, but arguably preferable. 

Go ahead and look at the free agent class for this summer and next.  Who on that list do you want?  (Don't say Wade, Bryant, James, Bosh, etc. because, in the words of Rick Pitino, they're not walking through that door, fans.) 

So, realistically, who do you want?  David Lee?  Carlos Boozer?  Amar'e IF he opts out?  What does that do for you with no center?   Does paying one of those guys near-max for four years do anything for you long term?  Are they taking you anywhere they're not already taking their current clubs?  At this point, you're just praying for John Wall, who, I imagine, would pair perfectly with Gil in the backcourt.  

This is another Washington basketball trade for the books.

We once fleeced Dallas for Antawn Jamison in exchange for Harris, Stackhouse, and filler.  They provided us with a patsy in our longstanding quest to wrest ourselves free of Juwan Howard.  Today, they're having themselves a hearty laugh at our considerable expense. 

It's often been said that you can sell fans only two things in the NBA: winning and hope.  For the first time in years, we have neither.

 

[eyes of hazel]

Jesus.

*Goes to watch Bullets/Bulls game 3 in 1st round @ Capital Center on VCR to avoid suicide*

 

[yung flip image]

Method Man

Good write-up.

All I have to say about this trade is that it's nothing but disappointing. Caron is the man who the team should've been pieced around. He's been my favorite player on the Wiz since Arenas has been nowhere. I even started to like Haywood the past couple of years. Deshawn I had tolerance for, but I guess it's good to see him go. One thing I expected was to get a draft pick. I'm mad too because my friend just bought me a Butler jersey for my birthday.

So, can someone please show me the shining light in this and tell me we're going to get something better real soon than this %%#$@@@$ trade?

 

[hella handsome]

Originally Posted by codeIVC

^ umm. why did you jus post that article?

i quoted it from the first page


anyway, im not even surprised by this stupid monstrosity of a trade. the wizards stay taking L's on the court, and off the court. we have had so many good and great players go through our hands its ridiculous.


everytime i hear something like this i always think to myself... "!+@#! we had Jordan... JORDAN... how the hell we end up like this?" even though jordan was past his prime, i dont care... you dont go from having jordan to having nobody.... thats how i think about it...

 

[swish 22]

Guys we have seen this story play out for 30 years. Eyes of Hazel probably has a lot of VHS tapes to prove it. We want to believe as fans that one day the Wizards will develop a plan to become a championship contender or atleast make a deep run, but those days are highly unlikely with the current management/ownership. I approve of this trade because we were not going in any direction with the players we have. Caron was a great player for us and I am sad to see him go. He came to work every day playing hard. The Gil situation made it necessary to blow up this team. Hopefully they can get some good pieces after the season. Sadly, I don't think it will happen. Hell I know it will not happen, but I am still hopeful. Look on the bright side you can get dirt cheap tickets for a game for the rest of the season.

 

[j paycheck]

Stupid. So blown. Haywood is a great player IMO, he will be an all star (I said it) and the only true center we had... In the Etan vs. Haywood days, I rooted for Haywood. Caron is an amazing talent and had a presence in the community. But in the end, who knows, perhaps they have a plan or perhaps it's simple enough that there is too much personal problems in the locker room. Maybe Caron and Haywood spoke on the incident and since, things in the locker have gone sour. As for Stevenson, if he sticked to playing D instead of wanting to be Arenas, he have a role but that isn't saying much, so with that said - I won't miss him as much.

The other thing, we got Howard, this dude has priors incidents involving marijuana, speeding, the direspect to the national anthem... so unless he's changed, the DC enviroment for these players won't help. Webber 3.0.

In the end, only winner here is Cuban, he has a hell of a squad. Crazy.

 

[mytsharp]

Meth you should write for TruthAboutIt.

www.truthaboutit.net

Seriously.

My-T.

 

[chromedw]

 Good write up, Meth as always.

@ Eyes of Hayel, yeah that was a good little run back in '97

Howard could be a good fit, that's a big MAYBE with him.

Well, at least Wiz ticket will be cheaper now that there season in is the toilet

 

[eyes of hazel]

Will McGee get the PT now?

Only to use this 2nd half of the season as a free audition for the other 29 teams in the L?