Are the Cavs serious right now?????....Lebron and Kobe stans galore

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

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Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

I'll play for fun, I'm at work on a Saturday. 

Hurts cuz it's true?  Come on man, it's just as imaginary as all the other stuff you brought up.  And I agree with you on the Bias, Penny, MJ 8 etc etc etc.  It is predicting and what not based on how they were going and what was being shown.  Here's the thing though, MJ won 3, and then 3 more.  Connect the dots, you get 2 in between.  Barry Sanders is killing it year after year after year after year with rushing yards, he keeps going, you connect the dots.  Bias is a bigger stretch, we have no idea there.  Anyways, people are merely going with what had already happened, along with what MIGHT have happened. 

Your case, is making things up.  You have picked a guy that has never won anything and magically he would win 6 titles just like that playing with Shaq. 

  There's no dots to connect there.  Now agreed, Eddie could have stayed while Lebron played the 3, however, that's not enough shooting on the floor, NOR is that enough defense.  I know in your mind Lebron is the best shooter we've ever seen and a great defender blah blah blah, but no, the fact is, 20 year old Lebron wasn't going to hit 21 footers in game 4 of the finals, but another 20 year old kid did. 

  And Lebron also wasn't gonna be having any defense classes with Gary Payton at all star weekend, because Lebron thinks his game is already good enough, he don't need anybody's help.  Rice was there to space the floor in that nobody could leave him.  Eddie Jones was a good 3 point shooter, but teams would rather leave him to help double, correct?  Nobody in their right mind would ever leave Glen Rice alone, it would be stupid.  That created space for Kobe and Shaq to operate.  Granted, Rice did fade out quickly after that.  On top of all that though, Lebron's ego was even bigger then Kobe's as a kid, Bron and Shaq could have clashed even worse.  Now, flip that, and maybe not.  Kobe hated that Shaq never worked at all and Kobe killed himself every practice, so it could go either way.  Lazy no practice Shaq and lazy handshake Lebron might have co-existed perfectly, or big ego Shaq and big ego Lebron could have been at each other's throats.  NO ONE, knows either way.  We'll never know.  

Thing is, you don't even have a team.  You can clown Laker fans all you want, but we live and die with this Laker squad, and Kobe is the guy that has been reppin us for 15 years.  You weren't a Cavs fan, nor are you a Heat fan.  All you do is ride and die for Lebron.  You really have no leg to stand on at all to say a damn thing to ANYBODY when they actually root for a team.  It don't even matter that Bron has Wade and Bosh now, because as soon as the Celtics or Magic or Bulls or whoever knock off the Heat in the playoffs, you won't blame Bron, you'll blame the other guys.  Call them worthless, didn't step up, etc etc etc.  But then you hype up the Lakers cast like they are all Greek Gods and they carry Kobe's @#$ thru every game and series, and say things like Bron would win with Smush and Kwame like you did somewhere else in this thread or another thread I saw, and yet when he has the best record in the NBA 2 years staight, you call those guys bums and blame them.  Well, then why say Bron could have won with Smush and Kwame?  Which is it?  Oh you mean regular season games.  The most improtant games that Lebron James has on his resume.  "Big" regular season wins.  I forgot.  At some point, people are going to start to open their eyes.  You probably never will becasuse all you care about is Lebron, but for those of us who care about the NBA and legacies and things like that, there is a chance (and I have brought this up for about 2 years now) that Lebron may NEVER win anything.  Now, that certainly seems outlandish, I know this, and people will of course call me insane in the head, but if you sit back and truly look, say he doesn't pull thru this season.  This being his 8th full season now, all ringless.  So we start next year (maybe, depending on lockout) and he turns 27 years old.  Prime right?  Only one prob.  Look at the miles on him.  As much as a physical freak that he is, he has WAAAAAAY more minutes/games on his legs then a Kobe or KG did because they came out the first 2-3 years with lower minutes/action.  They were eased into the game so to speak.  Bron has a ton of wear and tear already.  Now he hasn't had any surgeries or any of that yet, he's in good shape overall, but instead of him playing til he's 35 at a high level, his body will wear down/break down much quicker then that.  Wade HAS had a lot of injuries.  He will break down himself in 2 years or maybe 3.  (again, speculation, connecting dots etc)  and now you're lookin at Lebron's "window" is much smaller then people think.  Remember his whole not 3, not 4, not 5........not happening.  Just to get to 5 would already have him in his 30's and at 5 straight finals runs which would mean TONS of extra games and minutes.  And Wade is older!!!!!!! 

 
I'm way ahead of myself here, and we have plenty of time/battles to look at that more closely, and who knows, I could be wrong and Bron and Wade play til their 35 with zero injuries and great success and what not, we'll see.  But 6 made up rings, is far from being better then 5 actual proven rings.  If you want to make the case for Kobe/Shaq should have had MORE then their 3, that I am certainly in agreeance with you on.  But that's not what you said. 


No lines to connect? A single player who is a difference between the best and the worst record in the league isn't a dot to connect? A two time MVP isn't a dot to connect? A player who led a bunch of bums to the finals wouldn't have been able to win those finals with prime Shaq? You must've misread: I wrote that LEBRON JAMES would've won 6 rings with Shaq, not Darko Milicic. Shaq won 3 rings (+ 1 later with the Heat) with a player who, after Shaq's departure led his team to records of 34, 45 and 42 (a lottery and two first round exits), but he wouldn't have won those rings with a player who led a team of bums to the best record in the league and a finals appearance? Keep dreaming that my claim is "imagination". It's a calculated prediction based on facts whose outcome just doesn't suit your Kobe-hugging agenda. And your counter argument is RIDICULOUS to the extreme: LeBron didn't win with a bunch of players who have the worst record in the league without him, ergo he wouldn't have won with Shaq???? Okay, look at this team:

PG - John Stockton
SG - Reggie Miller
SF - Charles Barkley
PF - Karl Malone
C - Patrick Ewing

Bench:
Dikembe Mutombo
Chris Webber
Dominique Wilkins
Latrell Sprewell

= 0 rings

I mean, what could be more outrageous than to claim that they would've won if they got together. After all, they have 0 rings. They're not winners. They never won a ring. Their work ethics were not quite up to the task of winning a ring, etc. So there's no way that this team would've won, right?

And I don't have a team? This is who you are:

And no, the text on the sign isn't photoshopped. The whole forum is full of you. Your team is the Kobe Bryants. Oh, I am so sorry that I blamed the other players on the Cavs for the Cavs not winning the championships. Clearly I was wrong with the way they're dominating the league. It would've made much more sense to blame LeBron, like you and your fellow Kobe stans. It was clearly his fault that they lost against the Magic with his pathetic 38, 8 and 8 averages throughout that series and the buzzer beating 3. He didn't do sufficiently with the "best supporting cast in the league". And I used Smush and Kwame as an example because of YOU Kobe homers, and how you constantly mention that Kobe had such a horrible team around him in the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol days. If he was able to lead these bums to the best record in the league, he wouldn't have had problems doing it with anyone... He would survive with Kwame and Smush. He would dominate with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Yeah, Kobe's ego was so tiny. His ego and reluctance to accept that he was a #2 to Shaq and failed attempt to be #1 is the main reason the Lakers lost the 2004 finals against the Pistons, which led to Shaq leaving. And LeBron has a huge ego, yet he somehow comes to a team to be a Robin and Pippen. Which one is it? And talk about hypocrisy. You Kobe homers blame EVERYONE but Kobe. Gasol grabs 20 rebounds and he's the scapegoat. It's still his fault if the Lakers lose. And not only is it his fault, but it's his fault because he's soft. 20 REBOUNDS... SOFT!

And here's proof that you all are just a bunch of Kobe huggers and not Lakers fans:

I claim that Pau Gasol was the real MVP of the 2010 NBA Finals. But every time I mention this I get battalions of salty Kobe homer soldiers like the one pictured above gang up on me. Yet this is not an anti-Lakers statement in any way. It may be a pro-Pau Gasol and (in your opinion) an anti-Kobe Bryant statement, but it's certainly not an anti-Lakers statement, since in the both players play for the Lakers. I'm simply choosing one LAKERS player over another. Yet because it's not Kobe, you get upset. You constantly customize to make The ridiculous statement in this thread that LeBron only won a gold medal because of Kobe illustrates the most extreme example of your customization:

Kobe plays like doo-doo on a stick throughout the entire 2008 Olympics, but then hits a couple of big shots in the gold medal game and it's because of him LeBron has the gold medal. It's all about that final game. But Kobe shoots 6-24 in game 7 of the finals and gets bailed out, yet suddenly game 7 isn't all that important. It's all about "the whole series", (where Gasol put up better numbers over 7 games as well, not to mention had a much better game 7).. Or it's about the ONE thing that Kobe did well in game 7: rebound. Never in your decade long period of Kobe homerism have you and your fellow stanboys EVER pointed out rebounding as a reason as to why Kobe is so great.. It was always about him being clutch, scoring when it mattered. But oh no, not this time: He rebuilds the World Trade Center with the bricks he lays throughout game 7, so you can't exactly use that to homerize.. "He didn't shoot well, so let's see: What did Kobe do well... AHA! Rebound. That's what we'll use.." All the while LeBron gave up despite him grabbing 19 rebounds against the Celtics.

 

[rolaholic]

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[rolaholic]

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[mzd650]

 

[mzd650]

 

[CP1708]

  Somebodies maaaaaad in here. 

You got me.  Totally.  I am not a Laker fan.  At all. Magic is not my favorite NBA player of all time.  No sir.  Care to take a guess at my second fav player?  Bet you couldn't guess it if we sat here all day long.  So I'll just give you the answer.  (and if you wish to research it, check the 07 Laker thread, the 08 Laker thread, the 09 Lakers thread, and the 2010 Laker thread, I mention it all the time when we are reminiscing in there)  Nick Van Exel.  #3?  Kobe Bryant.  Yup, you got me though, I'm no Laker fan.  That wasn't me talking in the MJ woulda won 8 straight thread talkin about if only Magic hadn't retired, Sedalle Threatt was gonna be the key to us coming back and winning the next year.  That wasn't me. 

  I don't even know who Sedale Threatt is, how could I?  Kobe came in 96, I don't know any Laker prior to that. 

...........

Lol good call on that one bro.  You really have me pegged.  Guess me bringing up the fact that you have no NBA team and only swing from the chosen sac got to you.  My bad on that b. 

So let's go ahead and step by step this.  Clearly, Kobe is a bum for 04.  I mean, Shaq left, and all Kobe could get was "after Shaq's departure led his team to records of 34, 45 and 42 (a lottery and two first round exits"  What a loser.  Only Shaq left.........oh wait, what?  That's not true?  What?  Oh, Karl Malone left too.  Gary Payton traded?  Rick Fox?  Derek Fisher left? Phil Jackson left?  On no, you mean, we only have 5 player left on the roster, Kobe, Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George?  That's it?  Kobe, you should be ashamed. 

You do realize that they completely blew up that ENTIRE franchise.  The only ones that remained were Buss and Mitch (and Kobe and the 4 bums)  Remember when the Bulls blew it all up?  No more MJ, Pip, Rodman, Phil, nobody?  Remember that?  They went from winning (or competing for a title at least) to absolute dirt. Same here.  The Lakers COULD have kept Payton.  COULD have asked Malone to stay.  COULD have re-signed Fish, Fox, whoever.  They COULD have asked Phil to stay.  But they didn't.  They moved Shaq, it was time to start all over, brand new.  They got Lamar and Butler for Shaq.  Nice peices.  Brian Grant too, not a nice peice.  They brought back Vlade.  Chucky Atkins.  Drafted Sasha.  Traded Payton and Fox for Chris Mihm.  They got Brian Cook.  (actually was he there for the Detroit series too? he might have been)  Then we had some bums named Bobbit (not that one

) Tierre Brown, and Jumaine Jones.  Oh and Rudy T.  Rudy quit on the team for health reasons.  Our record?  24-19.  Oh and at the time, Kobe was hurt.  Remember he had the knee worked on when he was touchin the white girl in Colorado.  So we were 5 games over 500 when our coach quit.  Kobe missed like 18 games that year.  Lamar missed 18 too I think.  Divac PLAYED in 15, he was done as hell.  Butler even missed a couple games here and there.  Mihm played 75, Atkins was the only one to play all 82.  It was one bad injury after another.  But all the way up to the Middle of March, we were still a .500 team.  With a completely rebuilt team.  Starting all over, with an interim coach, injuries, etc etc, we were still in the playoff race with a month left.  And then the wheels came off.  The Cavs, we were not. 

Over the course of the next 2 years, we added players.  Bynum.  Farmar.  Fish came back.  Traded for Ariza.  Moved Butler for Kwame (Not Phil's best idea, but he supported it) Kwame eventually became Pau.  It took time to rebuild that team that was destroyed after 04.  How long did it take the Bulls to come back?  How long did it take the Celts after Bird left?  Where Philly been since AI?  Kobe and the front office were back in the finals in their 4th season.  Built around Kobe.  Be sad all you want, all of that stuff is a fact. 

You clearly have a higher opinion of Lebron James.  That's fine.  You hold on to that hope forever and ever bud.  If at the end of his career he still got nothin to show for it but some pretty numbers, you won't even show your face in public no more. 

  Shaq and Lebron would certainly be tough, they probably would win rings.  They probably would win more then 1.  But to just imagine 6 and try to pass it off as > then 4 (now 5

) ACTUAL rings, is lame and beyond dumb.  It's the same as saying that Shaq and Bron and Chris Paul would win 9 in a row which is > MJ's 6 REAL rings.  It's the same thing as that bs you were saying.  And you overreaching and listing every hall of famer there is without a ring is again stupid on your part.  I moved one player, one for one, Kobe for Bron, not a whole @#$%^& gaggle of players.  Way to be realistic. 

  I said ONE player who has never won anything being placed in a spot over someone who has won multiple times, not a 10 man roster you clown. 

Could you please tell me what Laker fan is calling Pau a scapegoat for his 20 rebounds?  Scapegoat of what?  What series?  What game?  What are you referring too?  If you mean his 19 in the game 7, a series in which WE WON, how are we scapegoating him?  And as for your pro Pau stance, that's fine, glad you like him, but the problem is YOU ARE WRONG.  Before game 7, what was the NATIONAL MEDIA saying in terms of MVP?  There were some who claimed that Kobe should be the MVP of the series IF THE LAKERS LOST THE FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!  IF THEY LOST, people still were speakin on Kobe might be MVP, especially after the game 5 performance in which Pau did what?  What did Pau do in Boston?  So while maybe YOU claimed for dear life that someone else was the MVP, that's fine, the rest of the nation was holding court on if Kobe could get it even in a loss.  So your basis that Pau was better then Kobe for the entirety of the series is stupid.  If you want to say he was better in game 7, by all means, I could care less.  Ring #16 was all I cared about.  Despite your ignorance.  I don't worry one bit about being called a Kobe guy, anyone that knows me will tell you I am a Laker.  It's ok if you don't believe that.  Ask any Laker fan in the Laker thread you can find if I babble on and on and on only about Kobe, or if I have my finger on the pulse of the franchise year round.  You won't like the answers though, so you won't be looking that up I am sure.  You are pretty clueless on the majority of us, especially by calling Ska a Kobe stan. 

It shows you have no idea what the @#$% you are talking about. 

People correct you on stuff that is about the Lakers.  Pro or anti whatever, don't matter, if it's about the Lakers, and you are misinformed, or flat out wrong (which happens alot) then we have the right to correct you.  It is what it is.  You do it on purpose, no big deal, but we can correct you on things and argue over and over.  It's a message board, that's what it's for.  If you actually truly think that anybody would care if Pau got MVP, or Sasha got MVP, as long as we parade at the end of June, we're good. 

 

[CP1708]

  Somebodies maaaaaad in here. 

You got me.  Totally.  I am not a Laker fan.  At all. Magic is not my favorite NBA player of all time.  No sir.  Care to take a guess at my second fav player?  Bet you couldn't guess it if we sat here all day long.  So I'll just give you the answer.  (and if you wish to research it, check the 07 Laker thread, the 08 Laker thread, the 09 Lakers thread, and the 2010 Laker thread, I mention it all the time when we are reminiscing in there)  Nick Van Exel.  #3?  Kobe Bryant.  Yup, you got me though, I'm no Laker fan.  That wasn't me talking in the MJ woulda won 8 straight thread talkin about if only Magic hadn't retired, Sedalle Threatt was gonna be the key to us coming back and winning the next year.  That wasn't me. 

  I don't even know who Sedale Threatt is, how could I?  Kobe came in 96, I don't know any Laker prior to that. 

...........

Lol good call on that one bro.  You really have me pegged.  Guess me bringing up the fact that you have no NBA team and only swing from the chosen sac got to you.  My bad on that b. 

So let's go ahead and step by step this.  Clearly, Kobe is a bum for 04.  I mean, Shaq left, and all Kobe could get was "after Shaq's departure led his team to records of 34, 45 and 42 (a lottery and two first round exits"  What a loser.  Only Shaq left.........oh wait, what?  That's not true?  What?  Oh, Karl Malone left too.  Gary Payton traded?  Rick Fox?  Derek Fisher left? Phil Jackson left?  On no, you mean, we only have 5 player left on the roster, Kobe, Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George?  That's it?  Kobe, you should be ashamed. 

You do realize that they completely blew up that ENTIRE franchise.  The only ones that remained were Buss and Mitch (and Kobe and the 4 bums)  Remember when the Bulls blew it all up?  No more MJ, Pip, Rodman, Phil, nobody?  Remember that?  They went from winning (or competing for a title at least) to absolute dirt. Same here.  The Lakers COULD have kept Payton.  COULD have asked Malone to stay.  COULD have re-signed Fish, Fox, whoever.  They COULD have asked Phil to stay.  But they didn't.  They moved Shaq, it was time to start all over, brand new.  They got Lamar and Butler for Shaq.  Nice peices.  Brian Grant too, not a nice peice.  They brought back Vlade.  Chucky Atkins.  Drafted Sasha.  Traded Payton and Fox for Chris Mihm.  They got Brian Cook.  (actually was he there for the Detroit series too? he might have been)  Then we had some bums named Bobbit (not that one

) Tierre Brown, and Jumaine Jones.  Oh and Rudy T.  Rudy quit on the team for health reasons.  Our record?  24-19.  Oh and at the time, Kobe was hurt.  Remember he had the knee worked on when he was touchin the white girl in Colorado.  So we were 5 games over 500 when our coach quit.  Kobe missed like 18 games that year.  Lamar missed 18 too I think.  Divac PLAYED in 15, he was done as hell.  Butler even missed a couple games here and there.  Mihm played 75, Atkins was the only one to play all 82.  It was one bad injury after another.  But all the way up to the Middle of March, we were still a .500 team.  With a completely rebuilt team.  Starting all over, with an interim coach, injuries, etc etc, we were still in the playoff race with a month left.  And then the wheels came off.  The Cavs, we were not. 

Over the course of the next 2 years, we added players.  Bynum.  Farmar.  Fish came back.  Traded for Ariza.  Moved Butler for Kwame (Not Phil's best idea, but he supported it) Kwame eventually became Pau.  It took time to rebuild that team that was destroyed after 04.  How long did it take the Bulls to come back?  How long did it take the Celts after Bird left?  Where Philly been since AI?  Kobe and the front office were back in the finals in their 4th season.  Built around Kobe.  Be sad all you want, all of that stuff is a fact. 

You clearly have a higher opinion of Lebron James.  That's fine.  You hold on to that hope forever and ever bud.  If at the end of his career he still got nothin to show for it but some pretty numbers, you won't even show your face in public no more. 

  Shaq and Lebron would certainly be tough, they probably would win rings.  They probably would win more then 1.  But to just imagine 6 and try to pass it off as > then 4 (now 5

) ACTUAL rings, is lame and beyond dumb.  It's the same as saying that Shaq and Bron and Chris Paul would win 9 in a row which is > MJ's 6 REAL rings.  It's the same thing as that bs you were saying.  And you overreaching and listing every hall of famer there is without a ring is again stupid on your part.  I moved one player, one for one, Kobe for Bron, not a whole @#$%^& gaggle of players.  Way to be realistic. 

  I said ONE player who has never won anything being placed in a spot over someone who has won multiple times, not a 10 man roster you clown. 

Could you please tell me what Laker fan is calling Pau a scapegoat for his 20 rebounds?  Scapegoat of what?  What series?  What game?  What are you referring too?  If you mean his 19 in the game 7, a series in which WE WON, how are we scapegoating him?  And as for your pro Pau stance, that's fine, glad you like him, but the problem is YOU ARE WRONG.  Before game 7, what was the NATIONAL MEDIA saying in terms of MVP?  There were some who claimed that Kobe should be the MVP of the series IF THE LAKERS LOST THE FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!  IF THEY LOST, people still were speakin on Kobe might be MVP, especially after the game 5 performance in which Pau did what?  What did Pau do in Boston?  So while maybe YOU claimed for dear life that someone else was the MVP, that's fine, the rest of the nation was holding court on if Kobe could get it even in a loss.  So your basis that Pau was better then Kobe for the entirety of the series is stupid.  If you want to say he was better in game 7, by all means, I could care less.  Ring #16 was all I cared about.  Despite your ignorance.  I don't worry one bit about being called a Kobe guy, anyone that knows me will tell you I am a Laker.  It's ok if you don't believe that.  Ask any Laker fan in the Laker thread you can find if I babble on and on and on only about Kobe, or if I have my finger on the pulse of the franchise year round.  You won't like the answers though, so you won't be looking that up I am sure.  You are pretty clueless on the majority of us, especially by calling Ska a Kobe stan. 

It shows you have no idea what the @#$% you are talking about. 

People correct you on stuff that is about the Lakers.  Pro or anti whatever, don't matter, if it's about the Lakers, and you are misinformed, or flat out wrong (which happens alot) then we have the right to correct you.  It is what it is.  You do it on purpose, no big deal, but we can correct you on things and argue over and over.  It's a message board, that's what it's for.  If you actually truly think that anybody would care if Pau got MVP, or Sasha got MVP, as long as we parade at the end of June, we're good. 

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl


And no, the text on the sign isn't photoshopped. The whole forum is full of you. Your team is the Kobe Bryants. Oh, I am so sorry that I blamed the other players on the Cavs for the Cavs not winning the championships. Clearly I was wrong with the way they're dominating the league. It would've made much more sense to blame LeBron, like you and your fellow Kobe stans. It was clearly his fault that they lost against the Magic with his pathetic 38, 8 and 8 averages throughout that series and the buzzer beating 3. He didn't do sufficiently with the "best supporting cast in the league". And I used Smush and Kwame as an example because of YOU Kobe homers, and how you constantly mention that Kobe had such a horrible team around him in the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol days. If he was able to lead these bums to the best record in the league, he wouldn't have had problems doing it with anyone... He would survive with Kwame and Smush. He would dominate with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Yeah, Kobe's ego was so tiny. His ego and reluctance to accept that he was a #2 to Shaq and failed attempt to be #1 is the main reason the Lakers lost the 2004 finals against the Pistons, which led to Shaq leaving. And LeBron has a huge ego, yet he somehow comes to a team to be a Robin and Pippen. Which one is it? And talk about hypocrisy.

Kobe plays like doo-doo on a stick throughout the entire 2008 Olympics, but then hits a couple of big shots in the gold medal game and it's because of him LeBron has the gold medal. It's all about that final game. But Kobe shoots 6-24 in game 7 of the finals and gets bailed out, yet suddenly game 7 isn't all that important. It's all about "the whole series", (where Gasol put up better numbers over 7 games as well, not to mention had a much better game 7).. Or it's about the ONE thing that Kobe did well in game 7: rebound. Never in your decade long period of Kobe homerism have you and your fellow stanboys EVER pointed out rebounding as a reason as to why Kobe is so great.. It was always about him being clutch, scoring when it mattered. But oh no, not this time: He rebuilds the World Trade Center with the bricks he lays throughout game 7, so you can't exactly use that to homerize.. "He didn't shoot well, so let's see: What did Kobe do well... AHA! Rebound. That's what we'll use.." All the while LeBron gave up despite him grabbing 19 rebounds against the Celtics.

ETHER

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl


And no, the text on the sign isn't photoshopped. The whole forum is full of you. Your team is the Kobe Bryants. Oh, I am so sorry that I blamed the other players on the Cavs for the Cavs not winning the championships. Clearly I was wrong with the way they're dominating the league. It would've made much more sense to blame LeBron, like you and your fellow Kobe stans. It was clearly his fault that they lost against the Magic with his pathetic 38, 8 and 8 averages throughout that series and the buzzer beating 3. He didn't do sufficiently with the "best supporting cast in the league". And I used Smush and Kwame as an example because of YOU Kobe homers, and how you constantly mention that Kobe had such a horrible team around him in the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol days. If he was able to lead these bums to the best record in the league, he wouldn't have had problems doing it with anyone... He would survive with Kwame and Smush. He would dominate with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Yeah, Kobe's ego was so tiny. His ego and reluctance to accept that he was a #2 to Shaq and failed attempt to be #1 is the main reason the Lakers lost the 2004 finals against the Pistons, which led to Shaq leaving. And LeBron has a huge ego, yet he somehow comes to a team to be a Robin and Pippen. Which one is it? And talk about hypocrisy.

Kobe plays like doo-doo on a stick throughout the entire 2008 Olympics, but then hits a couple of big shots in the gold medal game and it's because of him LeBron has the gold medal. It's all about that final game. But Kobe shoots 6-24 in game 7 of the finals and gets bailed out, yet suddenly game 7 isn't all that important. It's all about "the whole series", (where Gasol put up better numbers over 7 games as well, not to mention had a much better game 7).. Or it's about the ONE thing that Kobe did well in game 7: rebound. Never in your decade long period of Kobe homerism have you and your fellow stanboys EVER pointed out rebounding as a reason as to why Kobe is so great.. It was always about him being clutch, scoring when it mattered. But oh no, not this time: He rebuilds the World Trade Center with the bricks he lays throughout game 7, so you can't exactly use that to homerize.. "He didn't shoot well, so let's see: What did Kobe do well... AHA! Rebound. That's what we'll use.." All the while LeBron gave up despite him grabbing 19 rebounds against the Celtics.

ETHER

 

[mzd650]

Cant believe people are agreeing with this Xtra dude.

facts > make believe

That should end the argument.

 

[mzd650]

Cant believe people are agreeing with this Xtra dude.

facts > make believe

That should end the argument.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Yeah, somebody is maaad here.

You got me. I am totally only a LeBron fan. He's totally my favorite player of all time, let alone current favorite player in the league. It's totally not Grant Hill at all. I totally started following the NBA with LeBron's first game in the league. I hate the 90s NBA, don't care about it at all. Care to guess my second favorite player? It's totally not Hakeem Olajuwon. Third? Ben Wallace. Fourth? Scottie Pippen. LeBron may be my #5.

Poor Kobe.. Things got so rough for him when Shaq left.. Which was his fault in the first place. He only had Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George? They didn't gain Lamar Odom and Caron Butler? Oh, I see you mentioned them later on. "Nice pieces". Can't tell if you were being sarcastic, but yeah, they actually were nice pieces. One of them went on to become a legit (non-LeBron made Mo Williams type) all-star. So what happened then? The Lakers were 28-38 in the 66 games he played that season and 6-10 in the 16 games he missed. No difference whatsoever. He couldn't get anything going with that team. Yeah, it took a while for the Celtics and the Bulls to rebuild after Bird and MJ left. But Kobe didn't leave. He wanted to

, until the Lakers got the most one-sided trade in history (man, those Grizzlies sure are rebuilding, they both got something out of the trade, right?

) with his noble move to demand a trade, as opposed to a %@*%% move of signing to a team of one's choice as a free agent. Kobe prior to Gasol: 45 and 42 wins. Gasol prior to Kobe: 50 and 49 wins. Be sad all you want. This is another fact. ANY pro-Kobe positive spin you can put to the failures of the 04-07 Lakers doesn't even come close to what is being unraveled before our very eyes this season: The truth about LeBron's supporting cast all these years, or as you Kobe extremists called it, "the best supporting cast in the league".

Oh, so it was only one player? Well then, it's nice to know that ring winners such as Randy Brown or Bill Wennington (twin towers!) would've had a bigger chance to win a ring with Shaq instead of LeBron or prime Barkley. We can do this all day. Saying that a player is better than another player just because he has rings = IDIOCY! Always has been, always will be. Saying that a player who didn't win a championship was somehow therefore incapable of winning, especially a player who is stuck with a bunch of bums who go from the best record in the league with him to the worst record in the league without him = IDIOCY!

Yeah,

... Game 5 should matter more over game 7 as to determine who was the Finals MVP of that series... Only if it suits Kobe, that is. Customization to the fullest. And yeah, I know that there are some who said that Kobe should've been finals MVP even if they lost. I only wish that that was the most outrageous statement they made about Kobe. Yeah, it sure is a mystery why so many Kobe huggers around the nation would choose a hyped up "better than MJ" American over a tall goofy looking Euro whose game is based on fundamentals and not flash.

What game am I talking about where Gasol was a softie scapegoat despite grabbing 20 rebounds? This one:

http://www.basketball-ref...scores/201011110DEN.html

Go dig up the thread from this game earlier in the season and I can assure you that softie Gasoft is the scapegoat.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Yeah, somebody is maaad here.

You got me. I am totally only a LeBron fan. He's totally my favorite player of all time, let alone current favorite player in the league. It's totally not Grant Hill at all. I totally started following the NBA with LeBron's first game in the league. I hate the 90s NBA, don't care about it at all. Care to guess my second favorite player? It's totally not Hakeem Olajuwon. Third? Ben Wallace. Fourth? Scottie Pippen. LeBron may be my #5.

Poor Kobe.. Things got so rough for him when Shaq left.. Which was his fault in the first place. He only had Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George? They didn't gain Lamar Odom and Caron Butler? Oh, I see you mentioned them later on. "Nice pieces". Can't tell if you were being sarcastic, but yeah, they actually were nice pieces. One of them went on to become a legit (non-LeBron made Mo Williams type) all-star. So what happened then? The Lakers were 28-38 in the 66 games he played that season and 6-10 in the 16 games he missed. No difference whatsoever. He couldn't get anything going with that team. Yeah, it took a while for the Celtics and the Bulls to rebuild after Bird and MJ left. But Kobe didn't leave. He wanted to

, until the Lakers got the most one-sided trade in history (man, those Grizzlies sure are rebuilding, they both got something out of the trade, right?

) with his noble move to demand a trade, as opposed to a %@*%% move of signing to a team of one's choice as a free agent. Kobe prior to Gasol: 45 and 42 wins. Gasol prior to Kobe: 50 and 49 wins. Be sad all you want. This is another fact. ANY pro-Kobe positive spin you can put to the failures of the 04-07 Lakers doesn't even come close to what is being unraveled before our very eyes this season: The truth about LeBron's supporting cast all these years, or as you Kobe extremists called it, "the best supporting cast in the league".

Oh, so it was only one player? Well then, it's nice to know that ring winners such as Randy Brown or Bill Wennington (twin towers!) would've had a bigger chance to win a ring with Shaq instead of LeBron or prime Barkley. We can do this all day. Saying that a player is better than another player just because he has rings = IDIOCY! Always has been, always will be. Saying that a player who didn't win a championship was somehow therefore incapable of winning, especially a player who is stuck with a bunch of bums who go from the best record in the league with him to the worst record in the league without him = IDIOCY!

Yeah,

... Game 5 should matter more over game 7 as to determine who was the Finals MVP of that series... Only if it suits Kobe, that is. Customization to the fullest. And yeah, I know that there are some who said that Kobe should've been finals MVP even if they lost. I only wish that that was the most outrageous statement they made about Kobe. Yeah, it sure is a mystery why so many Kobe huggers around the nation would choose a hyped up "better than MJ" American over a tall goofy looking Euro whose game is based on fundamentals and not flash.

What game am I talking about where Gasol was a softie scapegoat despite grabbing 20 rebounds? This one:

http://www.basketball-ref...scores/201011110DEN.html

Go dig up the thread from this game earlier in the season and I can assure you that softie Gasoft is the scapegoat.

 

[rolaholic]

^
Starting to become one of my favorite NTer's in S&T

.
What you say is nothing but the truth but Kobe stans don't want to realize it 

 

[rolaholic]

^
Starting to become one of my favorite NTer's in S&T

.
What you say is nothing but the truth but Kobe stans don't want to realize it 

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by Down By Law

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the *#%! are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by Down By Law

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the *#%! are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Yeah, somebody is maaad here.

You got me. I am totally only a LeBron fan. He's totally my favorite player of all time, let alone current favorite player in the league. It's totally not Grant Hill at all. I totally started following the NBA with LeBron's first game in the league. I hate the 90s NBA, don't care about it at all. Care to guess my second favorite player? It's totally not Hakeem Olajuwon. Third? Ben Wallace. Fourth? Scottie Pippen. LeBron may be my #5.

Poor Kobe.. Things got so rough for him when Shaq left.. Which was his fault in the first place. He only had Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George? They didn't gain Lamar Odom and Caron Butler? Oh, I see you mentioned them later on. "Nice pieces". Can't tell if you were being sarcastic, but yeah, they actually were nice pieces. One of them went on to become a legit (non-LeBron made Mo Williams type) all-star. So what happened then? The Lakers were 28-38 in the 66 games he played that season and 6-10 in the 16 games he missed. No difference whatsoever. He couldn't get anything going with that team. Yeah, it took a while for the Celtics and the Bulls to rebuild after Bird and MJ left. But Kobe didn't leave. He wanted to

, until the Lakers got the most one-sided trade in history (man, those Grizzlies sure are rebuilding, they both got something out of the trade, right?

) with his noble move to demand a trade, as opposed to a %@*%% move of signing to a team of one's choice as a free agent. Kobe prior to Gasol: 45 and 42 wins. Gasol prior to Kobe: 50 and 49 wins. Be sad all you want. This is another fact. ANY pro-Kobe positive spin you can put to the failures of the 04-07 Lakers doesn't even come close to what is being unraveled before our very eyes this season: The truth about LeBron's supporting cast all these years, or as you Kobe extremists called it, "the best supporting cast in the league".

Oh, so it was only one player? Well then, it's nice to know that ring winners such as Randy Brown or Bill Wennington (twin towers!) would've had a bigger chance to win a ring with Shaq instead of LeBron or prime Barkley. We can do this all day. Saying that a player is better than another player just because he has rings = IDIOCY! Always has been, always will be. Saying that a player who didn't win a championship was somehow therefore incapable of winning, especially a player who is stuck with a bunch of bums who go from the best record in the league with him to the worst record in the league without him = IDIOCY!

Yeah,

... Game 5 should matter more over game 7 as to determine who was the Finals MVP of that series... Only if it suits Kobe, that is. Customization to the fullest. And yeah, I know that there are some who said that Kobe should've been finals MVP even if they lost. I only wish that that was the most outrageous statement they made about Kobe. Yeah, it sure is a mystery why so many Kobe huggers around the nation would choose a hyped up "better than MJ" American over a tall goofy looking Euro whose game is based on fundamentals and not flash.

What game am I talking about where Gasol was a softie scapegoat despite grabbing 20 rebounds? This one:

http://www.basketball-ref...scores/201011110DEN.html

Go dig up the thread from this game earlier in the season and I can assure you that softie Gasoft is the scapegoat.

PREAAAAAAAAAACH. The funny thing about the whole LeBron punked out etc... Miami Heat fiasco is that Kobe did the exact same thing when he was drafted. Dude wasnt even a college player, hell he wasnt nothing more then a top 5 HIGH SCHOOL player. So are you guys saying LeBron accepting being on a losing squad, putting 7 yrs of blood sweat and tears, and decided to leave is a itch move and is being a baby. Yet a h.s. kid with absolutely no pro experience doing the same thing before he even stepped foot on a pro bball court is cool right?

  

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Yeah, somebody is maaad here.

You got me. I am totally only a LeBron fan. He's totally my favorite player of all time, let alone current favorite player in the league. It's totally not Grant Hill at all. I totally started following the NBA with LeBron's first game in the league. I hate the 90s NBA, don't care about it at all. Care to guess my second favorite player? It's totally not Hakeem Olajuwon. Third? Ben Wallace. Fourth? Scottie Pippen. LeBron may be my #5.

Poor Kobe.. Things got so rough for him when Shaq left.. Which was his fault in the first place. He only had Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, and Deven George? They didn't gain Lamar Odom and Caron Butler? Oh, I see you mentioned them later on. "Nice pieces". Can't tell if you were being sarcastic, but yeah, they actually were nice pieces. One of them went on to become a legit (non-LeBron made Mo Williams type) all-star. So what happened then? The Lakers were 28-38 in the 66 games he played that season and 6-10 in the 16 games he missed. No difference whatsoever. He couldn't get anything going with that team. Yeah, it took a while for the Celtics and the Bulls to rebuild after Bird and MJ left. But Kobe didn't leave. He wanted to

, until the Lakers got the most one-sided trade in history (man, those Grizzlies sure are rebuilding, they both got something out of the trade, right?

) with his noble move to demand a trade, as opposed to a %@*%% move of signing to a team of one's choice as a free agent. Kobe prior to Gasol: 45 and 42 wins. Gasol prior to Kobe: 50 and 49 wins. Be sad all you want. This is another fact. ANY pro-Kobe positive spin you can put to the failures of the 04-07 Lakers doesn't even come close to what is being unraveled before our very eyes this season: The truth about LeBron's supporting cast all these years, or as you Kobe extremists called it, "the best supporting cast in the league".

Oh, so it was only one player? Well then, it's nice to know that ring winners such as Randy Brown or Bill Wennington (twin towers!) would've had a bigger chance to win a ring with Shaq instead of LeBron or prime Barkley. We can do this all day. Saying that a player is better than another player just because he has rings = IDIOCY! Always has been, always will be. Saying that a player who didn't win a championship was somehow therefore incapable of winning, especially a player who is stuck with a bunch of bums who go from the best record in the league with him to the worst record in the league without him = IDIOCY!

Yeah,

... Game 5 should matter more over game 7 as to determine who was the Finals MVP of that series... Only if it suits Kobe, that is. Customization to the fullest. And yeah, I know that there are some who said that Kobe should've been finals MVP even if they lost. I only wish that that was the most outrageous statement they made about Kobe. Yeah, it sure is a mystery why so many Kobe huggers around the nation would choose a hyped up "better than MJ" American over a tall goofy looking Euro whose game is based on fundamentals and not flash.

What game am I talking about where Gasol was a softie scapegoat despite grabbing 20 rebounds? This one:

http://www.basketball-ref...scores/201011110DEN.html

Go dig up the thread from this game earlier in the season and I can assure you that softie Gasoft is the scapegoat.

PREAAAAAAAAAACH. The funny thing about the whole LeBron punked out etc... Miami Heat fiasco is that Kobe did the exact same thing when he was drafted. Dude wasnt even a college player, hell he wasnt nothing more then a top 5 HIGH SCHOOL player. So are you guys saying LeBron accepting being on a losing squad, putting 7 yrs of blood sweat and tears, and decided to leave is a itch move and is being a baby. Yet a h.s. kid with absolutely no pro experience doing the same thing before he even stepped foot on a pro bball court is cool right?

  

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

---

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?


heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

---

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?


heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!

 

[mister916]

Ouuuu, this thread is good.

 

[mister916]

Ouuuu, this thread is good.

 

[mronegative]

*takes Xta off ignore* damn...

 

[CP1708]

Dude, you gotta stop doing that.  I say it's possible that if you switch Kobe and Bron the Lakers don't win because Bron hasn't proven @#$% and you list 10 hall of famers as a full damn unit.  Then I say, no, one for one switch here, and you pick Bill @#$%^&* Wennington? 

 

Come on gosh damn it, at least be in the ball park.  You know damn well you doin that stupid @#$% on purpose. 
If we're going to play what if and switch Bron and Kobe, and we're splitting hairs about them, one winning on the biggest stage, and another not having a single finals victory in his career, CAN and WILL be brought up.  Talking about Kobe and Bill Wennington, is not the same man.  We're talking about one elitte and another.  This is YOUR what if game I'm playing, your imaginary ring argument. 

I know of your affection for Hill, Pip, and Dream, but point still stands, you ride for a PLAYER, not a team.  I been on this board 4+ years, every single solitary post has had the same exact sig.  Phins, Lakers, Cubs, Canes.  Never will change it either.  So if a discussion goes on about the Lakers, I'll be there.  If you bring up Magic, I'm there.  Kareem, I'm there.  Portland Trailblazers, I'm there.  (ok, not the same

)  Bottom line, I can speak on anything NBA at any given time, if I caught the label as a Kobe guy, no prob with me, he's on my team.  If we traded him to the Bulls, I would still root for him to do well, but get his @#$ kicked when he played the Lakers.  Just how I had to do for years with Nick. 

  The thing is I go for my team at all times, but that doesn't mean that I don't speak out against them when they do something stupid.  You don't do that, not at all.  All you do is ride Bron, and blame everybody else.  There is no end in sight for you.  You are so desperate to have him climb the mountain that you will accept anything he does as fine, and dismiss everyone else around him.  The fact you even said he should shut up about the Cavs was a BIG step for you.  I've called Kobe stupid for things millions of times.  But if you think I'm gonna sit here and just let people say stuff like this kid that has posted after me saying Kobe "demanded" a trade on draft day is just plain stupid.  People flat out make up whatever they feel like, put some " " marks around it and call it true. 

  Shuges the biggest anti Kobe guy around and he and I have scoured everywhere trying to find actuall reports/claims FROM 96 that he asked for a trade.  Not articles from 2008 when Bob Bass spoke out and said he was "forced" to make a deal.  That's revisionist history.  We looked and looked and didn't find anything that was proof positive that Kobe forced a deal, so saying that is the same as what Bron did is ridiculous.  What Bron did don't even matter on this topic really, not sure where it came up but I assume you're still pissed about Kobe people laughing at him for it, and I get that, but that's not what I am in here for.  Lord knows my stalkers should be in here any time screamin at me. 

 

No, I was saying as a fact, Lamar and Caron were nice peices.  Oddly, I remember the rumor at the time being us pushing for Wade and Riley saying no way.  How different that would have made the NBA landscape today.  I was going in order in terms of who we had left after the trade, and then who we got for Shaq, etc etc.  Again, you may think of me is some Kobe fan, but you couldn't be more wrong, well, unless you think of Ska as one. 

  And for the 1 billionth time, the Grizz made out like bandits in that deal, the only problem was they didn't seal the deal so to speak.  3 first rounders, 10 mil in cap space, and a young 7 foot center for one guy that was 0-12 in playoff games and would never have gone anywhere other then maybe someday winning a series.  That's more then anybody gets for anybody.  Now the Grizz certainly didn't do well with their picks, they didn't spend the 10 mil wisely, and they still have Marc Gasol and hardly use him properly.  That's not on LA, that's not our fault.  They got a ton of assets and messed them up.  Look at it this way, if the Spurs traded us Gasol for 3 picks, (2, but Critt was a current first round pick in his rookie year) 10 mil, and a young center, it's almost definite they would have drafted two good players in the first roud, and spent the 10 mil on either one really good player, or maybe 2 solid role guys, right?  You see what I'm saying?  That deal was beyond fair, Memphis just did't know what to do with the assets they were given, that don't make the deal unfair. 

You tryna say that ESPN guys were claimin Kobe MVP over Gasol due to race?  That's your argument?  Damn, I dunno what to say to that.  I do know that you and I both went back and looked thru the history of the NBA finals, and like 95% of the time the leading scorer in the finals was MVP.  And if the leading scorer was the leading scorer by a wide margin, then it was %100.  I know you remember too, because you are the one that pointed out I was wrong about the 80 series, Kareem actually did outscore Magic, but since Magic had the big game in game 6 and Kareem missed the game, Magic was MVP.  You could make a case for Gasol all you want, but it wouldn't have held up compared to the rest of the finals MVP votings.  We've already done that argument.  I'd give anything to see the Heat win and have Wade get voted MVP and see you spin outta control on that one. 

 

I'll check the boxscore and see what you refer too, but I know from my view, Gasol has been a blessing to the Lakers.  But for people to be caught up in the moment and pretend like he's the most dominant big in the NBA now and some bulldozing player is plain stupid.  He never won a single think in Memphis.  Whatever other talent around him, what have you.  You brought up his regular seasons vs Kobe's, but Kobe damn near had the 06 series, one rebound away from winning it.  Just one.  But he didn't, but that's more playoff wins in just that series then Pau has ever known before Kobe.  Gasol didn't suddenly become some God like player now that he wears Purple and Gold, there is someone that helps him with that.  He learned his lesson from 08, and thankfully worked very hard to improve, but Kobe has been doing this for our team for a decade and a half.  And while you sit around and try to make an excuse for Kobe getting a ring each and every ring he gets excuse after excuse while then coming up with an excuse as to why Bron doesn't have any, that's kind of customization at it's finest itself, is it not?  First it was cuz of Shaq, now it's cuz of Gasol, etc etc etc.  Meanwhile, the other guy couldn't win a single game.  But that's ok.  We don't need to bring those facts up, now do we?   

Man, I know that game, that's the first game we lost of the year. 

  You picked THAT game? 

Did you even watch the @#$%^& game?  Pau got his @#$ kicked in that game.  Yes, he had 20 rebounds, but he was MANHANDLED by Nene in that game.  @#$%, there wasn't even any Kenyon Martin or Chris Birdman and STILL Pau got beat like a drum by Nene.  Now, being fair, Pau didn't have Bynum and you could see he was starting to wear down due to heavy minutes, but that guy was straight up pushed around.  And if you look, we had an 8 point lead going into the 4th, by the time Kobe came back in, we were tied. 

  Momentum was gone, Nuggets were rolling by then.  And in the final minute we still had it down to 4, but couldn't get over the hump.  That was a game we completely gave away.  No question we shoulda won that, but it's not on Pau or anybody really, it was a meaningless game in early November for heaven's sakes.  Nobody scapegoating the dude.  People probably said some stupid stuff in the heat of the moment, but look at who it was.  Same people probably thought we were going 82-0. 

  I'm the first to tell you that some Laker fans go crazy for no damn reason.  We're spoiled, we expect to win every thing all the time.  I fight my own Laker fans ALL THE TIME about games in the regular season.  You can't throw that one game at me and tell me that us Laker fans hate Pau, or just choose Kobe.  Kobe has shot terribly in lots of games, and then found a way to help us win it.  Pau has played bad in games, and found a way to make a play.  But nobody with half a brain cares about a regular season "big" game.  There's no such thing.  I can think of like 5 true "big' regular season games in this last decade.  BIG games are in the playoffs, not regular season.  And trust me, I'm on record with that, all over this board.  People hate me for it. 

  You need to find a better game then that.