Are the Cavs serious right now?????....Lebron and Kobe stans galore

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

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Xtapolapacetl wrote:

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Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!


you are not seeing the point i am trying to make. if someone grew up in the generation of  today they see these players as the goats. They didnt see Jordan play. Bird Play. Magic play. So  why do people on this board want to be the first to be a **** because some young kid proclaims kobe the goat? hes seen the guy win 5 titles. hes seen the guy score 81 points. Just like i seen jordan win 6 titles and countless mvps and scoring titles and wasnt alive when wilt chamberlain was wrecking the league. Some old man will say Wilt was the greatest. Dr. J was the greatest. Bill Russell was the greatest. Wont disrespect and belittle the old man because his opinion differs because thats his opinion. Thats what he saw... its not hard to explain...

  

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

---

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!


you are not seeing the point i am trying to make. if someone grew up in the generation of  today they see these players as the goats. They didnt see Jordan play. Bird Play. Magic play. So  why do people on this board want to be the first to be a **** because some young kid proclaims kobe the goat? hes seen the guy win 5 titles. hes seen the guy score 81 points. Just like i seen jordan win 6 titles and countless mvps and scoring titles and wasnt alive when wilt chamberlain was wrecking the league. Some old man will say Wilt was the greatest. Dr. J was the greatest. Bill Russell was the greatest. Wont disrespect and belittle the old man because his opinion differs because thats his opinion. Thats what he saw... its not hard to explain...

  

 

[acbboyz84]

how can they be this bad ? or is everyone on the team just say f it and quit at this point ?

 

[acbboyz84]

how can they be this bad ? or is everyone on the team just say f it and quit at this point ?

 

[adrian1221]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

---

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!

 

[adrian1221]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Down By Law wrote:

---

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

Yeah, that was way more outrageous than saying Kobe is the GOAT.

This is a statement that can be disproved. How can you disprove my statement? By pointing out that LeBron didn't win a championship with a bunch of bums who he can lead to the best record in the league, but who have the worst record in the league without him?

People make "imaginary" statements like that ALL THE TIME on this forum: Just like when someone says that MJ would've won 8 straight had he not retired. That's two imaginary rings right there. Or when a Kobe stan says that the 04-07 Lakers wouldn't have won 20 games without Kobe. That's 3 imaginary records right there. Or that Penny would've been a sure-thing hall of famer if he didn't get injured. That's an imaginary half of a career right there. Or that Len Bias would've been one of the best ever had he not died. That's an imaginary entire career right there. Or that Barry Sanders would've been an all-time rushing leader had he not retired. That's thousands of imaginary rushing yards right there. Do you want me to go on? But none of these get laughed at.

The reason you are mad about that quote is you know that it's true. It hurts cause it's true. Kobe was drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth, being on the team with the most dominant force in the history of the league and he didn't become a true force until his fifth season. LeBron was among the NBA's very elite already in his second season as a 20 year-old kid. Once again, replace an 18 year-old Kobe with an 18 year-old LeBron on the 1996 Lakers and: The Lakers, starting with the 98-99 lockout season would've won 5 straight, or at least 4 out of 5 between 1999-2003 + one more between 2004-2006. Something that I didn't even think about first time is that Eddie Jones would've stayed on that Lakers team, since him and LeBron could've both been on the starting 5 without problems. Not that this would've been a deciding factor, but just a little extra that would make the Lakers even better for even longer instead of having a Glen Rice that faded away pretty fast.

A lot of them actually believe Kobe is the greatest ever. How can you even have a rational and logical conversation with a person who actually believes that?

heres where you are wrong. Nobody is saying kobe bryant is the greatest of all time. I have not once seen that on this board. However who the !@#% are you to tell some 12 year old....15 year old....17 year old that kobe bryant isnt the greatest of all time? Its all matter of opinion. You gonna diss some young kid because he doesnt say mcihael jordan is the greatest of all time??? News flash fool alot of these kids never seen jordan play. if someone wants to say lebron or kobe is the goat so be it. Quit getting butt hurt over someones opinion. 20 years from now some other dude is gonna be professed as the goat...

all this pompous prick nose in the air attitude needs to stop. read that last sentence you typed and tell me you dont sound like a snob come on now son

  


Opinion? Based on what?

Rings?... Bill Russell
Stats?... Wilt Chamberlain
Longevity?... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Awards?... Michael Jordan
Scoring titles?... Michael Jordan
A combination of all of the above?... Michael Jordan

So what the %*@# is it that makes Kobe the GOAT? Tell me!

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Ok, then I'll play your same stupid game. Kobe woulda won at least 3 titles with the Cavs. I mean, since we don't have to prove any damn thing, why not go with that? You keep bringing up Bill Wennington, my point was simple, when you compare two elite guys and you get down to splitting hairs, which we were doing (or so I thought) then you HAVE to bring up winning or not winning. I get that that is a sore subject for you, I get that the Cavs are not a model franchise but you see buddy, just as you go insane on Laker/Kobe fans for the ridiculous claims they make, the same exact thing can be said about Bron/Cavs supporters while they boatraced the NBA regular season. All those guys were RAMPANT across the nation the last two years. And when it comes down to it, the fact is one has 5, the other has 0. You can make up all the different reasons you want, some valid, some pointless, some might be close, whatever one has won and climbed the mountain, the other has not. That is what I used when I said you can't just switch Kobe and Bron like it's nothing, and the Lakers would have won this that or the other. Both guys are elite, Bill Wennington is not. Nobody in here has said even one time Horry > MJ or anything close, we're talking about two guys who carry their teams, one has won, the other has not. For all the different reasons there are.



And what exactly is the reasoning for an outrageous claim that Kobe would've won 3 titles with the Cavs? The 34, 45 and 42 records he had with the 04-07 Lakers? My reasoning is LeBron being the difference between the best and the worst record in the league, and leading a bunch of bums to the finals. My reasoning is the sheer dominance of Shaq over anyone else in the league at that point, which would've lasted some more years with LeBron who wouldn't have run Shaq out of town. My reasoning is that LeBron's best record in the league and finals appearance came under coaches who are nowhere near Phil Jackson, whom he obviously would've had if he was on those Lakers. Your reasoning is hot air. We are talking about two guys who under similar circumstances, one of them went to the finals and the best record in the league, while the other was right around .500 and had first round exits. We are talking about a guy who has the luxury of shooting 6-24 in a game 7 of the finals and still get bailed out because of a superior supporting cast and superior coaching.

See, that's the thing we don't have a luxury of. If Kobe would have been kept by the Hornets, then maybe we would have a better idea of the two players. But that isn't what happened. Maybe if Kobe is given the keys at 18 and told to do whatever he wanted, who knows what would have happened. He could be better, he could be worse, he could be in jail, he could have retired already, he could be TMac never makin it out the first round, he could have 10 titles, THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW. I know this. He was placed on a team in 04 that was utter garbage. And in 4 years, they were in the finals. That's fairly close to getting drafted on a crap team and carrying them. Like I said already, Bron certainly could have done major work had he been drafted to LA with Shaq. I said they coulda won 1, 2, maybe even 3. Again, nobody knows, but you said clearly 6 "Imaginary rings" > 4 (now 5) real ones. One of the dumbest claims I have ever seen. What's funny to me is here I am arguing all this crap, and did you know that back in 2000 I was just happy the Lakers got the 1? smiley: embarassed I remember thinking, there, Shaq and Kobe are off the hook, now they can just play out there careers, everything else is house money. Then they won again, and then again, then it was over, then everyone tried to take those 3 and put them all on Shaq, then Kobe and Phil and Fish won again and I said, whew, now that's over, Kobe can just finish out his career, nobody can say nothing, then they won again.......I'M UP TO FIVE RINGS NOW, and still people like you discredit every single one of them like he's (let's see, one of your comparisons..........) Corey Brewer or something. Just a SG in the NBA, nothing more. 30t6p3b The Cavs are not the Lakers, everybody knows that, everybody except for Cavs fans and Lebron fans that claimed he would own the world after every move they made. I been at this for years, I said for 3 years straight, the Cavs weren't contenders. I never wavered either. So you can claim all the fools that said they had the best supporting cast, that ain't on my record. No no no. I was upfront, Cavs won't win @#$% and I was right.


Luxury and being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth is all Kobe knows about. You may comfort yourself by saying that there's no way to know, but there's a way to make a calculated prediction: Kobe was given "the keys" at his peak at the age of 25, when Shaq left. The keys to a car with two fine engines in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. And what happened? 34, 42 and 45 records. A lottery and two first round exits.. Until a Gasol, who was doing better with the Grizzlies than Kobe was with the Lakers came to town. Yet he would've been able to do something had he been given the keys at the age of 18? Keep dreaming. You said that a guy won 5 rings while was clearly in a better situation than a guy playing with bums who have the worst record in the league is better because he won those 5 rings. One of the most baseless claims I've ever heard. What's funny is that I thought these Cavs would still win around 40 games without LeBron. smiley: embarassed I remember thinking that there is no way one guy can make such a huge difference I HAVE AN 8-32 RECORD AS PROOF NOW, and still people like you discredit what he did with the Cavs and LeBron needed to win a friggin CHAMPIONSHIP with those bums to somehow prove himself worthy. Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas are not Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Everyone knew this except for the Kobe stans/LeBron haters who claimed that LeBron had "the best supporting cast in the league". For years I've been saying that it is utterly ridiculous to demand that LeBron win a championship with a supporting cast that is as full of bums as this, but you Kobe stans/LeBron haters compared his supporting cast to Kobe's straight up. And you can claim that some LeBron fans thought that Cavs were legit contenders, that ain't on my record. I was constantly saying that it is not possible for a single player to win a championship with the supporting cast LeBron had. And I was right. I still didn't expect them to suck this much without him though.

I don't read Bron's twitter either. I don't scan interviews. What I do is frequent the NBA thread on a daily basis on NT. And I occasionally see stuff that he says, or does that is lame. And I talk about them. Put a lame quote out there by Baron Davis, and I'll laugh and make fun of that too. And I have never said you start threads about anybody, I know you don't, you should notice that I don't start a lot of threads about either of them either. If I see something interesting or stupid, or whatever, I'll go in and comment (much like this thread) and if someone starts up a convo, I'll go with it. Call out Dan Marino and I'll be there too. smiley: laugh Call out Lamar Odom, whoever you want, if its my team and I have an opinion on it, I'll give it. I already said that. I don't care if that gets me the Kobe homer label, I've watched close to 1,000 games he's played in, I'm pretty well versed. Like I said, if people are in there talkin nothin, I leave, if they talk stupid, I speak up. Not hard to figure out.


I won't try to find a lame quote by Baron Davis. I don't do it with LeBron/Kobe either, so why should I do it with him? And no one else does it with Baron Davis? At least no one else has a full time job scanning for Baron Davis quotes to post about. LeBron is the only one this is done to. Why? Because of the insecurity of him being the best player in the league. I'm not even mad that you do it, I just point out why you do it, and how you reduce yourselves to such a desperate method, thinking it will prove anything. Um, okay, LeBron is dumb.. And? As I mentioned before, players in the NBA make millions of dollars throughout their careers and they go broke a handful of years after. Being dumb in the NBA is a rule, not an exception. They're in the league to entertain people by playing basketball, not enlighten them with their knowledge.

I don't think you read the Laker thread enough, plenty of people get pissed at Kobe, but sure there are some that claim at least he's trying etc etc, I do the same during a given game if there's merit, he goes harder in those typical dead Laker games then most others. You tellin me you never seen Lamar sleepwalk? Or Bynum? Or Pau? Kobe and Fish give their best every game, but Fish isn't the same talent level obviously. For that, they get alot of credit (from me) even though most Laker fans hate Fisher. The real Laker fans, that get it, don't mind Fish, we know where he'll be when it matters. And you will take note right now, I have yet to bring up his injuries at all in this thread. (other then him being out in 04) You want to discredit a guy playing with different injuries, that's fine by me, I don't care. They get mentioned when he's being talked about, I am aware of that. If you want to shut that part down, I don't mind.


I've said pretty much all I have to say about this. I've seen plenty of Lakers threads. If you were as objective as you claim blamed Kobe for the Lakers losses as much as you want me to believe that you do, then you wouldn't have such a high opinion of Kobe to begin with. It would simply be a contradiction.

Laugh all you want, trust me, it's been my stance for YEARS. Ask any NBA fan that comes in here and has had any sort of discussion with me. Ask any of them. Go read the NBA thread the last 3 years, go read the Laker thread, you will see me with dozens of quotes of the regular season doesn't matter. I don't care if you have "other" Laker fans you want to use as an example, I'm not them, they don't speak for me. You are right, we lost on Christmas last year, badly..........that worked out how for the Cavs, and more importantly, the Lakers? smiley: nerd Yeah, that's right, worked out great for us, so why the hell do you think the regular season matters again? And so you know, we won the Christmas before that. So that's two years, 1-1 on Christmas, won a title each year, so tell me the effect of those "big" regular seasons games on us. There is no effect, it's a regular season game. The Cavs stomped us, the Heat stomped us. Kinda hard to get up for a game in December when you really want to play games in June. But yeah, those games sure did matter to Bron. He had points to prove. smiley: laugh I barely have said 5 words on 81. I could care less. The 62 actually was cooler to me since he outscored a whole team, but those were teams going nowhere. You go ahead and think those games mean a lot to me, fine by me, but as I said, check my numerous posts saying the regular season don't matter. There's a lot of them. If you mean in terms of overall career wise, numbers, categories, yeah that stuff matters at the end of a career, but in terms of during a specific season, do I want to win on Christmas, or do I want to win in June, hmmmmmmm geeeeee, lemmmmmme think........yeah. All the regular season stuff is to look back at what guys have done for thier careers. Big picture type stuff, not game by game by game. That stuff don't matter regardless of what you try to say for me.


Regular season showdowns such as the Christmas day game may not have had relevance in the long run as far as LeBron's and Kobe's teams go, other than one more W/L on the record, but keep thinking that it didn't work out in LeBron's favor in a LeBron vs Kobe debate:

You better believe those regular season meetings will be remembered, whether you like it or not. Especially if the two finish their careers without meeting in the finals. It's hard for you to make yourself look like such a minority in the Lakers fans community about the subject of much/little regular season matter when all those foam fingers were flying on the court during the closing seconds of a certain regular season meeting. They don't throw foam fingers at the end of every Lakers loss. There must've been something special about that game to make them extra salty in such a meaningless regular season game. I wonder why. If you spent as much time combating fans like that, or Kobe stans who say that 81 > 69, therefore Kobe > MJ or that LeBron will never be as good as Kobe until he scores 82, as you spend time on hating on LeBron, you might actually build a rep for yourself and sound convincing.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Ok, then I'll play your same stupid game. Kobe woulda won at least 3 titles with the Cavs. I mean, since we don't have to prove any damn thing, why not go with that? You keep bringing up Bill Wennington, my point was simple, when you compare two elite guys and you get down to splitting hairs, which we were doing (or so I thought) then you HAVE to bring up winning or not winning. I get that that is a sore subject for you, I get that the Cavs are not a model franchise but you see buddy, just as you go insane on Laker/Kobe fans for the ridiculous claims they make, the same exact thing can be said about Bron/Cavs supporters while they boatraced the NBA regular season. All those guys were RAMPANT across the nation the last two years. And when it comes down to it, the fact is one has 5, the other has 0. You can make up all the different reasons you want, some valid, some pointless, some might be close, whatever one has won and climbed the mountain, the other has not. That is what I used when I said you can't just switch Kobe and Bron like it's nothing, and the Lakers would have won this that or the other. Both guys are elite, Bill Wennington is not. Nobody in here has said even one time Horry > MJ or anything close, we're talking about two guys who carry their teams, one has won, the other has not. For all the different reasons there are.



And what exactly is the reasoning for an outrageous claim that Kobe would've won 3 titles with the Cavs? The 34, 45 and 42 records he had with the 04-07 Lakers? My reasoning is LeBron being the difference between the best and the worst record in the league, and leading a bunch of bums to the finals. My reasoning is the sheer dominance of Shaq over anyone else in the league at that point, which would've lasted some more years with LeBron who wouldn't have run Shaq out of town. My reasoning is that LeBron's best record in the league and finals appearance came under coaches who are nowhere near Phil Jackson, whom he obviously would've had if he was on those Lakers. Your reasoning is hot air. We are talking about two guys who under similar circumstances, one of them went to the finals and the best record in the league, while the other was right around .500 and had first round exits. We are talking about a guy who has the luxury of shooting 6-24 in a game 7 of the finals and still get bailed out because of a superior supporting cast and superior coaching.

See, that's the thing we don't have a luxury of. If Kobe would have been kept by the Hornets, then maybe we would have a better idea of the two players. But that isn't what happened. Maybe if Kobe is given the keys at 18 and told to do whatever he wanted, who knows what would have happened. He could be better, he could be worse, he could be in jail, he could have retired already, he could be TMac never makin it out the first round, he could have 10 titles, THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW. I know this. He was placed on a team in 04 that was utter garbage. And in 4 years, they were in the finals. That's fairly close to getting drafted on a crap team and carrying them. Like I said already, Bron certainly could have done major work had he been drafted to LA with Shaq. I said they coulda won 1, 2, maybe even 3. Again, nobody knows, but you said clearly 6 "Imaginary rings" > 4 (now 5) real ones. One of the dumbest claims I have ever seen. What's funny to me is here I am arguing all this crap, and did you know that back in 2000 I was just happy the Lakers got the 1? smiley: embarassed I remember thinking, there, Shaq and Kobe are off the hook, now they can just play out there careers, everything else is house money. Then they won again, and then again, then it was over, then everyone tried to take those 3 and put them all on Shaq, then Kobe and Phil and Fish won again and I said, whew, now that's over, Kobe can just finish out his career, nobody can say nothing, then they won again.......I'M UP TO FIVE RINGS NOW, and still people like you discredit every single one of them like he's (let's see, one of your comparisons..........) Corey Brewer or something. Just a SG in the NBA, nothing more. 30t6p3b The Cavs are not the Lakers, everybody knows that, everybody except for Cavs fans and Lebron fans that claimed he would own the world after every move they made. I been at this for years, I said for 3 years straight, the Cavs weren't contenders. I never wavered either. So you can claim all the fools that said they had the best supporting cast, that ain't on my record. No no no. I was upfront, Cavs won't win @#$% and I was right.


Luxury and being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth is all Kobe knows about. You may comfort yourself by saying that there's no way to know, but there's a way to make a calculated prediction: Kobe was given "the keys" at his peak at the age of 25, when Shaq left. The keys to a car with two fine engines in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. And what happened? 34, 42 and 45 records. A lottery and two first round exits.. Until a Gasol, who was doing better with the Grizzlies than Kobe was with the Lakers came to town. Yet he would've been able to do something had he been given the keys at the age of 18? Keep dreaming. You said that a guy won 5 rings while was clearly in a better situation than a guy playing with bums who have the worst record in the league is better because he won those 5 rings. One of the most baseless claims I've ever heard. What's funny is that I thought these Cavs would still win around 40 games without LeBron. smiley: embarassed I remember thinking that there is no way one guy can make such a huge difference I HAVE AN 8-32 RECORD AS PROOF NOW, and still people like you discredit what he did with the Cavs and LeBron needed to win a friggin CHAMPIONSHIP with those bums to somehow prove himself worthy. Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas are not Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Everyone knew this except for the Kobe stans/LeBron haters who claimed that LeBron had "the best supporting cast in the league". For years I've been saying that it is utterly ridiculous to demand that LeBron win a championship with a supporting cast that is as full of bums as this, but you Kobe stans/LeBron haters compared his supporting cast to Kobe's straight up. And you can claim that some LeBron fans thought that Cavs were legit contenders, that ain't on my record. I was constantly saying that it is not possible for a single player to win a championship with the supporting cast LeBron had. And I was right. I still didn't expect them to suck this much without him though.

I don't read Bron's twitter either. I don't scan interviews. What I do is frequent the NBA thread on a daily basis on NT. And I occasionally see stuff that he says, or does that is lame. And I talk about them. Put a lame quote out there by Baron Davis, and I'll laugh and make fun of that too. And I have never said you start threads about anybody, I know you don't, you should notice that I don't start a lot of threads about either of them either. If I see something interesting or stupid, or whatever, I'll go in and comment (much like this thread) and if someone starts up a convo, I'll go with it. Call out Dan Marino and I'll be there too. smiley: laugh Call out Lamar Odom, whoever you want, if its my team and I have an opinion on it, I'll give it. I already said that. I don't care if that gets me the Kobe homer label, I've watched close to 1,000 games he's played in, I'm pretty well versed. Like I said, if people are in there talkin nothin, I leave, if they talk stupid, I speak up. Not hard to figure out.


I won't try to find a lame quote by Baron Davis. I don't do it with LeBron/Kobe either, so why should I do it with him? And no one else does it with Baron Davis? At least no one else has a full time job scanning for Baron Davis quotes to post about. LeBron is the only one this is done to. Why? Because of the insecurity of him being the best player in the league. I'm not even mad that you do it, I just point out why you do it, and how you reduce yourselves to such a desperate method, thinking it will prove anything. Um, okay, LeBron is dumb.. And? As I mentioned before, players in the NBA make millions of dollars throughout their careers and they go broke a handful of years after. Being dumb in the NBA is a rule, not an exception. They're in the league to entertain people by playing basketball, not enlighten them with their knowledge.

I don't think you read the Laker thread enough, plenty of people get pissed at Kobe, but sure there are some that claim at least he's trying etc etc, I do the same during a given game if there's merit, he goes harder in those typical dead Laker games then most others. You tellin me you never seen Lamar sleepwalk? Or Bynum? Or Pau? Kobe and Fish give their best every game, but Fish isn't the same talent level obviously. For that, they get alot of credit (from me) even though most Laker fans hate Fisher. The real Laker fans, that get it, don't mind Fish, we know where he'll be when it matters. And you will take note right now, I have yet to bring up his injuries at all in this thread. (other then him being out in 04) You want to discredit a guy playing with different injuries, that's fine by me, I don't care. They get mentioned when he's being talked about, I am aware of that. If you want to shut that part down, I don't mind.


I've said pretty much all I have to say about this. I've seen plenty of Lakers threads. If you were as objective as you claim blamed Kobe for the Lakers losses as much as you want me to believe that you do, then you wouldn't have such a high opinion of Kobe to begin with. It would simply be a contradiction.

Laugh all you want, trust me, it's been my stance for YEARS. Ask any NBA fan that comes in here and has had any sort of discussion with me. Ask any of them. Go read the NBA thread the last 3 years, go read the Laker thread, you will see me with dozens of quotes of the regular season doesn't matter. I don't care if you have "other" Laker fans you want to use as an example, I'm not them, they don't speak for me. You are right, we lost on Christmas last year, badly..........that worked out how for the Cavs, and more importantly, the Lakers? smiley: nerd Yeah, that's right, worked out great for us, so why the hell do you think the regular season matters again? And so you know, we won the Christmas before that. So that's two years, 1-1 on Christmas, won a title each year, so tell me the effect of those "big" regular seasons games on us. There is no effect, it's a regular season game. The Cavs stomped us, the Heat stomped us. Kinda hard to get up for a game in December when you really want to play games in June. But yeah, those games sure did matter to Bron. He had points to prove. smiley: laugh I barely have said 5 words on 81. I could care less. The 62 actually was cooler to me since he outscored a whole team, but those were teams going nowhere. You go ahead and think those games mean a lot to me, fine by me, but as I said, check my numerous posts saying the regular season don't matter. There's a lot of them. If you mean in terms of overall career wise, numbers, categories, yeah that stuff matters at the end of a career, but in terms of during a specific season, do I want to win on Christmas, or do I want to win in June, hmmmmmmm geeeeee, lemmmmmme think........yeah. All the regular season stuff is to look back at what guys have done for thier careers. Big picture type stuff, not game by game by game. That stuff don't matter regardless of what you try to say for me.


Regular season showdowns such as the Christmas day game may not have had relevance in the long run as far as LeBron's and Kobe's teams go, other than one more W/L on the record, but keep thinking that it didn't work out in LeBron's favor in a LeBron vs Kobe debate:

You better believe those regular season meetings will be remembered, whether you like it or not. Especially if the two finish their careers without meeting in the finals. It's hard for you to make yourself look like such a minority in the Lakers fans community about the subject of much/little regular season matter when all those foam fingers were flying on the court during the closing seconds of a certain regular season meeting. They don't throw foam fingers at the end of every Lakers loss. There must've been something special about that game to make them extra salty in such a meaningless regular season game. I wonder why. If you spent as much time combating fans like that, or Kobe stans who say that 81 > 69, therefore Kobe > MJ or that LeBron will never be as good as Kobe until he scores 82, as you spend time on hating on LeBron, you might actually build a rep for yourself and sound convincing.

 

[letitshine24]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Ok, then I'll play your same stupid game. Kobe woulda won at least 3 titles with the Cavs. I mean, since we don't have to prove any damn thing, why not go with that? You keep bringing up Bill Wennington, my point was simple, when you compare two elite guys and you get down to splitting hairs, which we were doing (or so I thought) then you HAVE to bring up winning or not winning. I get that that is a sore subject for you, I get that the Cavs are not a model franchise but you see buddy, just as you go insane on Laker/Kobe fans for the ridiculous claims they make, the same exact thing can be said about Bron/Cavs supporters while they boatraced the NBA regular season. All those guys were RAMPANT across the nation the last two years. And when it comes down to it, the fact is one has 5, the other has 0. You can make up all the different reasons you want, some valid, some pointless, some might be close, whatever one has won and climbed the mountain, the other has not. That is what I used when I said you can't just switch Kobe and Bron like it's nothing, and the Lakers would have won this that or the other. Both guys are elite, Bill Wennington is not. Nobody in here has said even one time Horry > MJ or anything close, we're talking about two guys who carry their teams, one has won, the other has not. For all the different reasons there are.

And what exactly is the reasoning for an outrageous claim that Kobe would've won 3 titles with the Cavs? The 34, 45 and 42 records he had with the 04-07 Lakers? My reasoning is LeBron being the difference between the best and the worst record in the league, and leading a bunch of bums to the finals. My reasoning is the sheer dominance of Shaq over anyone else in the league at that point, which would've lasted some more years with LeBron who wouldn't have run Shaq out of town. My reasoning is that LeBron's best record in the league and finals appearance came under coaches who are nowhere near Phil Jackson, whom he obviously would've had if he was on those Lakers. Your reasoning is hot air. We are talking about two guys who under similar circumstances, one of them went to the finals and the best record in the league, while the other was right around .500 and had first round exits. We are talking about a guy who has the luxury of shooting 6-24 in a game 7 of the finals and still get bailed out because of a superior supporting cast and superior coaching.

See, that's the thing we don't have a luxury of. If Kobe would have been kept by the Hornets, then maybe we would have a better idea of the two players. But that isn't what happened. Maybe if Kobe is given the keys at 18 and told to do whatever he wanted, who knows what would have happened. He could be better, he could be worse, he could be in jail, he could have retired already, he could be TMac never makin it out the first round, he could have 10 titles, THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW. I know this. He was placed on a team in 04 that was utter garbage. And in 4 years, they were in the finals. That's fairly close to getting drafted on a crap team and carrying them. Like I said already, Bron certainly could have done major work had he been drafted to LA with Shaq. I said they coulda won 1, 2, maybe even 3. Again, nobody knows, but you said clearly 6 "Imaginary rings" > 4 (now 5) real ones. One of the dumbest claims I have ever seen. What's funny to me is here I am arguing all this crap, and did you know that back in 2000 I was just happy the Lakers got the 1? smiley: embarassed I remember thinking, there, Shaq and Kobe are off the hook, now they can just play out there careers, everything else is house money. Then they won again, and then again, then it was over, then everyone tried to take those 3 and put them all on Shaq, then Kobe and Phil and Fish won again and I said, whew, now that's over, Kobe can just finish out his career, nobody can say nothing, then they won again.......I'M UP TO FIVE RINGS NOW, and still people like you discredit every single one of them like he's (let's see, one of your comparisons..........) Corey Brewer or something. Just a SG in the NBA, nothing more. 30t6p3b The Cavs are not the Lakers, everybody knows that, everybody except for Cavs fans and Lebron fans that claimed he would own the world after every move they made. I been at this for years, I said for 3 years straight, the Cavs weren't contenders. I never wavered either. So you can claim all the fools that said they had the best supporting cast, that ain't on my record. No no no. I was upfront, Cavs won't win @#$% and I was right.


Luxury and being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth is all Kobe knows about. You may comfort yourself by saying that there's no way to know, but there's a way to make a calculated prediction: Kobe was given "the keys" at his peak at the age of 25, when Shaq left. The keys to a car with two fine engines in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. And what happened? 34, 42 and 45 records. A lottery and two first round exits.. Until a Gasol, who was doing better with the Grizzlies than Kobe was with the Lakers came to town. Yet he would've been able to do something had he been given the keys at the age of 18? Keep dreaming. You said that a guy won 5 rings while was clearly in a better situation than a guy playing with bums who have the worst record in the league is better because he won those 5 rings. One of the most baseless claims I've ever heard. What's funny is that I thought these Cavs would still win around 40 games without LeBron. smiley: embarassed I remember thinking that there is no way one guy can make such a huge difference I HAVE AN 8-32 RECORD AS PROOF NOW, and still people like you discredit what he did with the Cavs and LeBron needed to win a friggin CHAMPIONSHIP with those bums to somehow prove himself worthy. Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas are not Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Everyone knew this except for the Kobe stans/LeBron haters who claimed that LeBron had "the best supporting cast in the league". For years I've been saying that it is utterly ridiculous to demand that LeBron win a championship with a supporting cast that is as full of bums as this, but you Kobe stans/LeBron haters compared his supporting cast to Kobe's straight up. And you can claim that some LeBron fans thought that Cavs were legit contenders, that ain't on my record. I was constantly saying that it is not possible for a single player to win a championship with the supporting cast LeBron had. And I was right. I still didn't expect them to suck this much without him though.

I don't read Bron's twitter either. I don't scan interviews. What I do is frequent the NBA thread on a daily basis on NT. And I occasionally see stuff that he says, or does that is lame. And I talk about them. Put a lame quote out there by Baron Davis, and I'll laugh and make fun of that too. And I have never said you start threads about anybody, I know you don't, you should notice that I don't start a lot of threads about either of them either. If I see something interesting or stupid, or whatever, I'll go in and comment (much like this thread) and if someone starts up a convo, I'll go with it. Call out Dan Marino and I'll be there too. smiley: laugh Call out Lamar Odom, whoever you want, if its my team and I have an opinion on it, I'll give it. I already said that. I don't care if that gets me the Kobe homer label, I've watched close to 1,000 games he's played in, I'm pretty well versed. Like I said, if people are in there talkin nothin, I leave, if they talk stupid, I speak up. Not hard to figure out.


I won't try to find a lame quote by Baron Davis. I don't do it with LeBron/Kobe either, so why should I do it with him? And no one else does it with Baron Davis? At least no one else has a full time job scanning for Baron Davis quotes to post about. LeBron is the only one this is done to. Why? Because of the insecurity of him being the best player in the league. I'm not even mad that you do it, I just point out why you do it, and how you reduce yourselves to such a desperate method, thinking it will prove anything. Um, okay, LeBron is dumb.. And? As I mentioned before, players in the NBA make millions of dollars throughout their careers and they go broke a handful of years after. Being dumb in the NBA is a rule, not an exception. They're in the league to entertain people by playing basketball, not enlighten them with their knowledge.

I don't think you read the Laker thread enough, plenty of people get pissed at Kobe, but sure there are some that claim at least he's trying etc etc, I do the same during a given game if there's merit, he goes harder in those typical dead Laker games then most others. You tellin me you never seen Lamar sleepwalk? Or Bynum? Or Pau? Kobe and Fish give their best every game, but Fish isn't the same talent level obviously. For that, they get alot of credit (from me) even though most Laker fans hate Fisher. The real Laker fans, that get it, don't mind Fish, we know where he'll be when it matters. And you will take note right now, I have yet to bring up his injuries at all in this thread. (other then him being out in 04) You want to discredit a guy playing with different injuries, that's fine by me, I don't care. They get mentioned when he's being talked about, I am aware of that. If you want to shut that part down, I don't mind.


I've said pretty much all I have to say about this. I've seen plenty of Lakers threads. If you were as objective as you claim blamed Kobe for the Lakers losses as much as you want me to believe that you do, then you wouldn't have such a high opinion of Kobe to begin with. It would simply be a contradiction.

Laugh all you want, trust me, it's been my stance for YEARS. Ask any NBA fan that comes in here and has had any sort of discussion with me. Ask any of them. Go read the NBA thread the last 3 years, go read the Laker thread, you will see me with dozens of quotes of the regular season doesn't matter. I don't care if you have "other" Laker fans you want to use as an example, I'm not them, they don't speak for me. You are right, we lost on Christmas last year, badly..........that worked out how for the Cavs, and more importantly, the Lakers? smiley: nerd Yeah, that's right, worked out great for us, so why the hell do you think the regular season matters again? And so you know, we won the Christmas before that. So that's two years, 1-1 on Christmas, won a title each year, so tell me the effect of those "big" regular seasons games on us. There is no effect, it's a regular season game. The Cavs stomped us, the Heat stomped us. Kinda hard to get up for a game in December when you really want to play games in June. But yeah, those games sure did matter to Bron. He had points to prove. smiley: laugh I barely have said 5 words on 81. I could care less. The 62 actually was cooler to me since he outscored a whole team, but those were teams going nowhere. You go ahead and think those games mean a lot to me, fine by me, but as I said, check my numerous posts saying the regular season don't matter. There's a lot of them. If you mean in terms of overall career wise, numbers, categories, yeah that stuff matters at the end of a career, but in terms of during a specific season, do I want to win on Christmas, or do I want to win in June, hmmmmmmm geeeeee, lemmmmmme think........yeah. All the regular season stuff is to look back at what guys have done for thier careers. Big picture type stuff, not game by game by game. That stuff don't matter regardless of what you try to say for me.


Regular season showdowns such as the Christmas day game may not have had relevance in the long run as far as LeBron's and Kobe's teams go, other than one more W/L on the record, but keep thinking that it didn't work out in LeBron's favor in a LeBron vs Kobe debate:

You better believe those regular season meetings will be remembered, whether you like it or not. Especially if the two finish their careers without meeting in the finals. It's hard for you to make yourself look like such a minority in the Lakers fans community about the subject of much/little regular season matter when all those foam fingers were flying on the court during the closing seconds of a certain regular season meeting. They don't throw foam fingers at the end of every Lakers loss. There must've been something special about that game to make them extra salty in such a meaningless regular season game. I wonder why. If you spent as much time combating fans like that, or Kobe stans who say that 81 > 69, therefore Kobe > MJ or that LeBron will never be as good as Kobe until he scores 82, as you spend time on hating on LeBron, you might actually build a rep for yourself and sound convincing.

Your the one to talk, how many threads have we seen you in hate and disregard Kobe' game?

 

[letitshine24]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Ok, then I'll play your same stupid game. Kobe woulda won at least 3 titles with the Cavs. I mean, since we don't have to prove any damn thing, why not go with that? You keep bringing up Bill Wennington, my point was simple, when you compare two elite guys and you get down to splitting hairs, which we were doing (or so I thought) then you HAVE to bring up winning or not winning. I get that that is a sore subject for you, I get that the Cavs are not a model franchise but you see buddy, just as you go insane on Laker/Kobe fans for the ridiculous claims they make, the same exact thing can be said about Bron/Cavs supporters while they boatraced the NBA regular season. All those guys were RAMPANT across the nation the last two years. And when it comes down to it, the fact is one has 5, the other has 0. You can make up all the different reasons you want, some valid, some pointless, some might be close, whatever one has won and climbed the mountain, the other has not. That is what I used when I said you can't just switch Kobe and Bron like it's nothing, and the Lakers would have won this that or the other. Both guys are elite, Bill Wennington is not. Nobody in here has said even one time Horry > MJ or anything close, we're talking about two guys who carry their teams, one has won, the other has not. For all the different reasons there are.

And what exactly is the reasoning for an outrageous claim that Kobe would've won 3 titles with the Cavs? The 34, 45 and 42 records he had with the 04-07 Lakers? My reasoning is LeBron being the difference between the best and the worst record in the league, and leading a bunch of bums to the finals. My reasoning is the sheer dominance of Shaq over anyone else in the league at that point, which would've lasted some more years with LeBron who wouldn't have run Shaq out of town. My reasoning is that LeBron's best record in the league and finals appearance came under coaches who are nowhere near Phil Jackson, whom he obviously would've had if he was on those Lakers. Your reasoning is hot air. We are talking about two guys who under similar circumstances, one of them went to the finals and the best record in the league, while the other was right around .500 and had first round exits. We are talking about a guy who has the luxury of shooting 6-24 in a game 7 of the finals and still get bailed out because of a superior supporting cast and superior coaching.

See, that's the thing we don't have a luxury of. If Kobe would have been kept by the Hornets, then maybe we would have a better idea of the two players. But that isn't what happened. Maybe if Kobe is given the keys at 18 and told to do whatever he wanted, who knows what would have happened. He could be better, he could be worse, he could be in jail, he could have retired already, he could be TMac never makin it out the first round, he could have 10 titles, THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW. I know this. He was placed on a team in 04 that was utter garbage. And in 4 years, they were in the finals. That's fairly close to getting drafted on a crap team and carrying them. Like I said already, Bron certainly could have done major work had he been drafted to LA with Shaq. I said they coulda won 1, 2, maybe even 3. Again, nobody knows, but you said clearly 6 "Imaginary rings" > 4 (now 5) real ones. One of the dumbest claims I have ever seen. What's funny to me is here I am arguing all this crap, and did you know that back in 2000 I was just happy the Lakers got the 1? smiley: embarassed I remember thinking, there, Shaq and Kobe are off the hook, now they can just play out there careers, everything else is house money. Then they won again, and then again, then it was over, then everyone tried to take those 3 and put them all on Shaq, then Kobe and Phil and Fish won again and I said, whew, now that's over, Kobe can just finish out his career, nobody can say nothing, then they won again.......I'M UP TO FIVE RINGS NOW, and still people like you discredit every single one of them like he's (let's see, one of your comparisons..........) Corey Brewer or something. Just a SG in the NBA, nothing more. 30t6p3b The Cavs are not the Lakers, everybody knows that, everybody except for Cavs fans and Lebron fans that claimed he would own the world after every move they made. I been at this for years, I said for 3 years straight, the Cavs weren't contenders. I never wavered either. So you can claim all the fools that said they had the best supporting cast, that ain't on my record. No no no. I was upfront, Cavs won't win @#$% and I was right.


Luxury and being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth is all Kobe knows about. You may comfort yourself by saying that there's no way to know, but there's a way to make a calculated prediction: Kobe was given "the keys" at his peak at the age of 25, when Shaq left. The keys to a car with two fine engines in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. And what happened? 34, 42 and 45 records. A lottery and two first round exits.. Until a Gasol, who was doing better with the Grizzlies than Kobe was with the Lakers came to town. Yet he would've been able to do something had he been given the keys at the age of 18? Keep dreaming. You said that a guy won 5 rings while was clearly in a better situation than a guy playing with bums who have the worst record in the league is better because he won those 5 rings. One of the most baseless claims I've ever heard. What's funny is that I thought these Cavs would still win around 40 games without LeBron. smiley: embarassed I remember thinking that there is no way one guy can make such a huge difference I HAVE AN 8-32 RECORD AS PROOF NOW, and still people like you discredit what he did with the Cavs and LeBron needed to win a friggin CHAMPIONSHIP with those bums to somehow prove himself worthy. Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas are not Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Everyone knew this except for the Kobe stans/LeBron haters who claimed that LeBron had "the best supporting cast in the league". For years I've been saying that it is utterly ridiculous to demand that LeBron win a championship with a supporting cast that is as full of bums as this, but you Kobe stans/LeBron haters compared his supporting cast to Kobe's straight up. And you can claim that some LeBron fans thought that Cavs were legit contenders, that ain't on my record. I was constantly saying that it is not possible for a single player to win a championship with the supporting cast LeBron had. And I was right. I still didn't expect them to suck this much without him though.

I don't read Bron's twitter either. I don't scan interviews. What I do is frequent the NBA thread on a daily basis on NT. And I occasionally see stuff that he says, or does that is lame. And I talk about them. Put a lame quote out there by Baron Davis, and I'll laugh and make fun of that too. And I have never said you start threads about anybody, I know you don't, you should notice that I don't start a lot of threads about either of them either. If I see something interesting or stupid, or whatever, I'll go in and comment (much like this thread) and if someone starts up a convo, I'll go with it. Call out Dan Marino and I'll be there too. smiley: laugh Call out Lamar Odom, whoever you want, if its my team and I have an opinion on it, I'll give it. I already said that. I don't care if that gets me the Kobe homer label, I've watched close to 1,000 games he's played in, I'm pretty well versed. Like I said, if people are in there talkin nothin, I leave, if they talk stupid, I speak up. Not hard to figure out.


I won't try to find a lame quote by Baron Davis. I don't do it with LeBron/Kobe either, so why should I do it with him? And no one else does it with Baron Davis? At least no one else has a full time job scanning for Baron Davis quotes to post about. LeBron is the only one this is done to. Why? Because of the insecurity of him being the best player in the league. I'm not even mad that you do it, I just point out why you do it, and how you reduce yourselves to such a desperate method, thinking it will prove anything. Um, okay, LeBron is dumb.. And? As I mentioned before, players in the NBA make millions of dollars throughout their careers and they go broke a handful of years after. Being dumb in the NBA is a rule, not an exception. They're in the league to entertain people by playing basketball, not enlighten them with their knowledge.

I don't think you read the Laker thread enough, plenty of people get pissed at Kobe, but sure there are some that claim at least he's trying etc etc, I do the same during a given game if there's merit, he goes harder in those typical dead Laker games then most others. You tellin me you never seen Lamar sleepwalk? Or Bynum? Or Pau? Kobe and Fish give their best every game, but Fish isn't the same talent level obviously. For that, they get alot of credit (from me) even though most Laker fans hate Fisher. The real Laker fans, that get it, don't mind Fish, we know where he'll be when it matters. And you will take note right now, I have yet to bring up his injuries at all in this thread. (other then him being out in 04) You want to discredit a guy playing with different injuries, that's fine by me, I don't care. They get mentioned when he's being talked about, I am aware of that. If you want to shut that part down, I don't mind.


I've said pretty much all I have to say about this. I've seen plenty of Lakers threads. If you were as objective as you claim blamed Kobe for the Lakers losses as much as you want me to believe that you do, then you wouldn't have such a high opinion of Kobe to begin with. It would simply be a contradiction.

Laugh all you want, trust me, it's been my stance for YEARS. Ask any NBA fan that comes in here and has had any sort of discussion with me. Ask any of them. Go read the NBA thread the last 3 years, go read the Laker thread, you will see me with dozens of quotes of the regular season doesn't matter. I don't care if you have "other" Laker fans you want to use as an example, I'm not them, they don't speak for me. You are right, we lost on Christmas last year, badly..........that worked out how for the Cavs, and more importantly, the Lakers? smiley: nerd Yeah, that's right, worked out great for us, so why the hell do you think the regular season matters again? And so you know, we won the Christmas before that. So that's two years, 1-1 on Christmas, won a title each year, so tell me the effect of those "big" regular seasons games on us. There is no effect, it's a regular season game. The Cavs stomped us, the Heat stomped us. Kinda hard to get up for a game in December when you really want to play games in June. But yeah, those games sure did matter to Bron. He had points to prove. smiley: laugh I barely have said 5 words on 81. I could care less. The 62 actually was cooler to me since he outscored a whole team, but those were teams going nowhere. You go ahead and think those games mean a lot to me, fine by me, but as I said, check my numerous posts saying the regular season don't matter. There's a lot of them. If you mean in terms of overall career wise, numbers, categories, yeah that stuff matters at the end of a career, but in terms of during a specific season, do I want to win on Christmas, or do I want to win in June, hmmmmmmm geeeeee, lemmmmmme think........yeah. All the regular season stuff is to look back at what guys have done for thier careers. Big picture type stuff, not game by game by game. That stuff don't matter regardless of what you try to say for me.


Regular season showdowns such as the Christmas day game may not have had relevance in the long run as far as LeBron's and Kobe's teams go, other than one more W/L on the record, but keep thinking that it didn't work out in LeBron's favor in a LeBron vs Kobe debate:

You better believe those regular season meetings will be remembered, whether you like it or not. Especially if the two finish their careers without meeting in the finals. It's hard for you to make yourself look like such a minority in the Lakers fans community about the subject of much/little regular season matter when all those foam fingers were flying on the court during the closing seconds of a certain regular season meeting. They don't throw foam fingers at the end of every Lakers loss. There must've been something special about that game to make them extra salty in such a meaningless regular season game. I wonder why. If you spent as much time combating fans like that, or Kobe stans who say that 81 > 69, therefore Kobe > MJ or that LeBron will never be as good as Kobe until he scores 82, as you spend time on hating on LeBron, you might actually build a rep for yourself and sound convincing.

Your the one to talk, how many threads have we seen you in hate and disregard Kobe' game?

 

[acidicality]

Damn, I think you could make a 200 page book of all the arguments CP and Xta have had about this topic.

 

[acidicality]

Damn, I think you could make a 200 page book of all the arguments CP and Xta have had about this topic.

 

[bdis1986]

 

[bdis1986]

 

[jonnny25]

Lebron winning a title this year will just be like what Kobe did when Kobe won his 5 rings. What a luxury it is to have a top 2 back-to-the-basket post presence for every year of your career except for 3 seasons (the years the Lakers also sucked). Lebron is a better overall player because he makes a bigger overall impact on any NBA team than anyone else in the NBA. He's never had a post presence, a legit 2nd option, a defensive presence (ALL of which Kobe has had AND more), and Lebron still keeps his teams in title contention. Kobe has and never will carry a team without good players.

 

[jonnny25]

Lebron winning a title this year will just be like what Kobe did when Kobe won his 5 rings. What a luxury it is to have a top 2 back-to-the-basket post presence for every year of your career except for 3 seasons (the years the Lakers also sucked). Lebron is a better overall player because he makes a bigger overall impact on any NBA team than anyone else in the NBA. He's never had a post presence, a legit 2nd option, a defensive presence (ALL of which Kobe has had AND more), and Lebron still keeps his teams in title contention. Kobe has and never will carry a team without good players.

 

[ruxxx]

DAMN...
Cats are writing novels in here and *@+*.

 

[ruxxx]

DAMN...
Cats are writing novels in here and *@+*.

 

[kobe8is]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Lebron winning a title this year will just be like what Kobe did when Kobe won his 5 rings. What a luxury it is to have a top 2 back-to-the-basket post presence for every year of your career except for 3 seasons (the years the Lakers also sucked). Lebron is a better overall player because he makes a bigger overall impact on any NBA team than anyone else in the NBA. He's never had a post presence, a legit 2nd option, a defensive presence (ALL of which Kobe has had AND more), and Lebron still keeps his teams in title contention. Kobe has and never will carry a team without good players.

  

 

[kobe8is]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Lebron winning a title this year will just be like what Kobe did when Kobe won his 5 rings. What a luxury it is to have a top 2 back-to-the-basket post presence for every year of your career except for 3 seasons (the years the Lakers also sucked). Lebron is a better overall player because he makes a bigger overall impact on any NBA team than anyone else in the NBA. He's never had a post presence, a legit 2nd option, a defensive presence (ALL of which Kobe has had AND more), and Lebron still keeps his teams in title contention. Kobe has and never will carry a team without good players.

  

 

[oneforall]

What the hell happened in this topic?

 

[oneforall]

What the hell happened in this topic?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

I'm done with this thread. I'm tired of writing those long $+$ replies.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

I'm done with this thread. I'm tired of writing those long $+$ replies.

 

[darthska]

Enh, you'll just ante up in another thread, spewing the same crap, just in a different language.

You say it's possible to make a calculated prediction based on certain things, but you fail so miserably to realize that you are the very definition of biased. Really. I just looked it up online; there was a link to your yuku profile.

Loyalty is an all or nothing dynamic with you; either you love the team/player you're discussing and you struggle mightily to say anything negative about them, or you hate them and can't possibly credit them for anything.

"No, I said something negative about LeBron. I said... I said he should shut up about the Cavs." Really? That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm surprised I haven't seen you compliment Kobe to the same degree, like 'Well, his shoes match. That's pretty cool."

You don't realize how blatently and unapologetically biased you are, and THAT'S why it's different when you make an imaginary claim that gets laughed at more than someone else's.

I hate the Yankees. With a passion. If there were breaking news today that the Bronx Bombers were actually going bankrupt and would no longer exist, words could not express the elation I would experience.

Yet one of my 3 favorite players in the game is Mariano Rivera, and I'll be pulling for him to pass the now retired Trevor Hoffman for the all time saves record this year.

From the way you present yourself on here, that sort of objectivity is completely foreign to you. If you hate a team like I hate the Yankees, then eternal damnation in the gates of hell would be the only hope you have for anyone on the roster.

Over the years, I've actually presented some of the same points you've said in this thread. After gm. 7, last year... check the thread... I said in multiple replies 'I know it won't happen, but I hope Pau is the Finals MVP. He deserves it more than Kobe, in my opinion.' Did I get as much flak as you do for saying the same thing? Nnnnope.