- Feb 6, 2013
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It's complicated even within Taiwan.
It's complicated even within Taiwan.
- Feb 22, 2012
- 10,338
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Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government
All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"
Also
marikomorose
not sure if you knew, but just in case, Taiwan basically formed when the Chinese Communist Party took over the mainland, and the People's Republic of China fled to Taiwan. The different mindsets and goals of the two governments led to the people's ways of life developing differently, which is part of the reason why most Taiwanese do not refer to themselves as Chinese other than when describing their ethnicity (Same goes for Hong Kong) It's kind of like how the majority of the US were technically the same/similar ethnicity as the English, but they had branched off into their own culture and beliefs to the point where they felt that the US should be its own separate country
This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"
Also
marikomorose
not sure if you knew, but just in case, Taiwan basically formed when the Chinese Communist Party took over the mainland, and the People's Republic of China fled to Taiwan. The different mindsets and goals of the two governments led to the people's ways of life developing differently, which is part of the reason why most Taiwanese do not refer to themselves as Chinese other than when describing their ethnicity (Same goes for Hong Kong) It's kind of like how the majority of the US were technically the same/similar ethnicity as the English, but they had branched off into their own culture and beliefs to the point where they felt that the US should be its own separate countryThis is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
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Beruseruku Desu
Supporter
- Oct 10, 2018
- 12,652
- 26,610
I forgot that Cena used to live in China
- Nov 16, 2018
- 31,417
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Thank you for your breakdwon.Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government
All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"
Also
This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
- Feb 6, 2013
- 121
- 91
Absolutely no Taiwanese person I've ever met (friends, girlfriends, coworkers, acquaintances) over the past 31 years would say that Taiwan is a part of China (there are some Taiwanese who do, but the majority do not identify with the mainland). The rest of the world just agrees to not officially recognize Taiwan as an independent country in order to keep the peace with the Chinese government
All of my Taiwanese friends hate Trump, but they were happy about making China mad when Trump called up President Tsai Ing-Wen, because doing so acknowledged Taiwan as an independent government/country and violated the deal the US had with China in which there's only "one China"
Also
This is a very dumbed down explanation but seems to be the general idea from my experience. Maybe some Taiwanese NTers can add more or correct me if I'm wrong
Just to throw in some nuance/complexities -- I think while most Taiwanese think that Taiwan is a sovereign state, there's a lack of consensus about (1) whether being a sovereign state = independent country, and (2) if Taiwan is already a country, which country is it (i.e., is it Taiwan, or is it the Republic of China).
Relevant excerpt from https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what-do-taiwans-people-think-about-their-relationship-to-china/
"What is notable are the options corresponding to the status quo. Tsai’s position (Taiwan is an independent country already, while pursuing state normalization) received around 31.9 percent support as the ideal option for Taiwan’s political future. It shows a strong base of light green supporters in Taiwan. But another 53.9 percent of the public choose to maintain the status quo as the ROC at this moment – 25 percent support the idea of two de facto independent countries across the strait, while 29 percent tend to support the light blue attitude, not recognizing the PRC as a separate country. Both considered it unnecessary to either declare independence or “fight back” and unify the mainland."
I don't think these differences of opinion are solely attributable to political party divisions; some of this maybe could be attributed to consequences of the Chinese Nationalists fleeing to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War that sfc415 mentioned.
People in Taiwan used to make more of a point to distinguish between benshengren (ethnic Chinese people in TW who lived there prior to 1945 -- many of whom lived under Japanese occupation) vs. waishengren (ethnic Chinese people who fled to TW after the civil war).
A fair number of the waishengren regarded mainland China as their ancestral home and wanted reunification with China, but under KMT (Nationalist/Republic of China) rule. I think this desire for reunification is a minority position now. Some benshengren viewed the KMT pretty negatively for a host of reasons -- one being the KMT instituted martial law for almost 40 years -- these folks were/are more likely to support TW independence as its own country (Republic of Taiwan or something); reunification is a non-starter for them.
This graph provides a pretty good view of Taiwanese attitudes about independence vs. mainland reunification over time: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963.
A couple of my cousins who moved back to Taiwan the past couple years after spending middle school through college here in the States were talking about the number of TW ppl who loved Trump seemingly for no other reason than just his ability to antagonize China. I didn't really believe it at first until they showed me their social media convos with their peers/colleagues and also saw https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...o-people-asia-pacific-want-win-us-presidentia.
moe200069
Supporter
- May 15, 2005
- 24,767
- 44,065
- May 29, 2016
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Good informative post with highlights of nuance/complexities. “It’s Complicated” is the best simple answer. Issue pops up here every so often. This was last conversation. Linked article is also a decent read.
We are approximately 10 percent of the total population. Roughly 2 million solders and civilians escaped to ROC after civil war defeat. Taiwan is over 95% Han Chinese (Hoklo, Hakka, “Mainland” Waishengren). 2.3% are Taiwanese aborigines.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainland_Chinese
(notice the notable Names)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_people
Here is a good news article that shows the different generations reflection on self identity:
With each generation, the people of Taiwan feel more Taiwanese — and less Chinese
Within just one family, three generations' lives in three different versions of Taiwan have given them disparate views on what it means to be Taiwanese, and whether that has anything to do with China.www.latimes.com
- May 29, 2016
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Had to really pay attention and replay many times, but could understand what he was saying.
Definitely went all in to protect the Money Bag.
Netizens around the World are a distasteful breed and the Mainland ones also have many disagreeable traits.
- May 29, 2016
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Targeted but defendants not charged with hate crime.
www.nytimes.com
Asian Homeowners Were Targeted in Burglary Ring, Prosecutors Say (Published 2021)
Eight men were charged in federal court with burglarizing 50 homes in four states after identifying the residents as Asian.
- May 29, 2016
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- Jul 22, 2012
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A very close second to his role in HBO's Tour De Pharmacy.
- May 29, 2016
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Different day, Same stuff:
Reason unbelievably dumber and outrageous as previous one.
time.com
rare.us
Reason unbelievably dumber and outrageous as previous one.
Racist Slurs, Broken Glass, Then a Return to Business for an Asian-Owned Store Attacked Twice. ‘We Have No Choice.’
The owner of the Plaza Sundries store was injured in the second anti-Asian attack in less than two months, her family says
Convenience Store Hit with Second Anti-Asian Attack in Less Than 2 Months
After their Charlotte, North Carolina convenience store was attacked last March, the Sung family had only just finished cleaning up the shattered glass when the locally owned shop was hit with another hate crime. “I didn’t think it would happen to us,” Mun Sung, a Korean immigrant who runs the...
rare.us
Those of us with Family and Parents in small business understand and relate to the struggle. All in search of better future for next generations.
Followup: arrested and charged. Trash.
‘We just want to be left alone in peace.’ Asian-American owned business robbed, trashed in Charlotte Transit Center
A robber trashed a convenience store at the Charlotte Transit Center and allegedly yelled racial slurs at the store’s Asian American owners during broad daylight. Police arrested a man, but it isn’t bringing peace to the victims.www.wbtv.com
Man caught on camera trashing Korean-owned convenience store in uptown Charlotte
A man has been charged after surveillance video shows him trashing a Korean-owned convenience store Tuesday afternoon in uptown Charlotte.www.wsoctv.com
- May 29, 2016
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- May 29, 2016
- 7,131
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- Apr 5, 2012
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i got no sympathy for this. If someone gets caught doing this they deserve a public stoning.
- Oct 7, 2007
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Taiwanese checking in . To keep it simple, the Chinese dynasty was ending as the Communist party under Mao started rising. People were poor and desperate and Mao's appeal to the working folk struck at the right time and right place. The existing government started fighting with Mao's Communist party, lost the civil war and fled to Taiwan.
Now there are folk who say if the existing Chinese government took their "government" to Taiwan, then theoretically Taiwan is China, and what we know as mainland now is really a new country that Mao formed.
This generation of Taiwan are majority for independence, or at the very least have the mentality of "just leave us the f alone and stop pointing missiles at us". In the most recent elections, the party that has a better relationship with China and isn't pro independence was actually slightly favored to win. Then the **** in HK happened, and the Taiwanese people saw their potential future if Taiwan didn't take a harder stance. The elections were a landslide because of this and the Democratic party won and that's who Trump called up.
Most the Taiwanese people who still proudly claim they're Chinese are mainly older folk. Those who have direct ties to mainland from the civil war. Taiwanese people now are culturally very different to those from mainland. I'd even say in many ways they're more similar to South Korea / Japan. Taiwan is arguably the most democratic and progressive country in East Asian so their feelings against the CCP have intensified over the past decade.
It is tough seeing your home country not being able to carry their own flag, being disrespected by other major nations because they don't want to lose out on the economic gains of a market that has 1.1 billion people. I left Taiwan when I was 5, but every time I go back I feel like I'm really at home, that I'm not different and I belong. Every time I see a Taiwanese or Taiwanese American flourish I'm immensely proud. I love America but there's a special place in my heart for Taiwan.
Now there are folk who say if the existing Chinese government took their "government" to Taiwan, then theoretically Taiwan is China, and what we know as mainland now is really a new country that Mao formed.
This generation of Taiwan are majority for independence, or at the very least have the mentality of "just leave us the f alone and stop pointing missiles at us". In the most recent elections, the party that has a better relationship with China and isn't pro independence was actually slightly favored to win. Then the **** in HK happened, and the Taiwanese people saw their potential future if Taiwan didn't take a harder stance. The elections were a landslide because of this and the Democratic party won and that's who Trump called up.
Most the Taiwanese people who still proudly claim they're Chinese are mainly older folk. Those who have direct ties to mainland from the civil war. Taiwanese people now are culturally very different to those from mainland. I'd even say in many ways they're more similar to South Korea / Japan. Taiwan is arguably the most democratic and progressive country in East Asian so their feelings against the CCP have intensified over the past decade.
It is tough seeing your home country not being able to carry their own flag, being disrespected by other major nations because they don't want to lose out on the economic gains of a market that has 1.1 billion people. I left Taiwan when I was 5, but every time I go back I feel like I'm really at home, that I'm not different and I belong. Every time I see a Taiwanese or Taiwanese American flourish I'm immensely proud. I love America but there's a special place in my heart for Taiwan.
- May 29, 2016
- 7,131
- 7,261
- May 29, 2016
- 7,131
- 7,261
SF homeless mental problems.
- Mar 5, 2005
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This is ******* disgraceful. If I see some **** like this, I'm intervening.
- Aug 21, 2010
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Just sick man…
- May 29, 2016
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Nobody asking people to be Captain America or telling you to put self in harm’s way.
But scenes like this should never be allowed to be unanswered.
Stop being passive. Be more aware.
Protect ourselves. Nobody is coming to save us.
- May 29, 2016
- 7,131
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All that high powered education and still just a pathetic racist Loser.
Dweeb.
Dweeb.
- Nov 16, 2018
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- May 29, 2016
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What in the actual.....
