Ask a Jehovah's Witness Vol. Who's that at my door?

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by NCTwin

You guys are doing such a great job at teaching and helping some of the NTers to understand what we stand for. I'm proud to see you all standing up and kicking some real knowledge in here.

We're definitely in the "last days". Nations have risen up against nations, and people against people. We have to be aware of the things going on, because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

Evan, PM me.

Ok apologize in advance for being amused

....but are you insinuating violent conflict between people/ nations is something new. JW have an extremely skewed concept of time and history. But I was told 1000 years is like 2 hrs to God. So I guess the violent conflict that has been going on since biblical times is part of these "last days"?

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by EvansST

Exactly. Also if you read the end of the Job account Job was blessed with even more than he had before.

I know that but I don't see how that makes up for the fact that he knew the outcome before Satan even approached him. It's basically no different than an answer to a simple math equation. He put Job through that for his ego after creating Lucifer knowing how he would turn out.

Another reason why He's letting Satan rule this world is because the angels and mankind are watching. All outlets of human government will be exhausted and there wont be any question that God's way is the best.
So this is a grand experiment with angels as witnesses just so GOD can be proved right when he knows he's right? Not only that but he already knows what humans are going to go against the grain and not follow his word not to mention those who will be skeptical of it and go their own path. He knows all this and is still doing it because?

When the world gets rid of wickedness and people are living peacefully there wont be anybody wondering "hmmm, would things been different or better if we decided to govern ourselves?"
So why didn't GOD just create humans with the information that doubting him is a lost cause and will not succeed? You're telling me GOD created us and Satan, caused all of this pain and misfortune just so we wouldn't wonder "What if?"

I can't jiggy with that *$%%. Makes sense since we're made in his image though, taking insecurities to a whole other level.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by EvansST

Exactly. Also if you read the end of the Job account Job was blessed with even more than he had before.

I know that but I don't see how that makes up for the fact that he knew the outcome before Satan even approached him. It's basically no different than an answer to a simple math equation. He put Job through that for his ego after creating Lucifer knowing how he would turn out.

Another reason why He's letting Satan rule this world is because the angels and mankind are watching. All outlets of human government will be exhausted and there wont be any question that God's way is the best.
So this is a grand experiment with angels as witnesses just so GOD can be proved right when he knows he's right? Not only that but he already knows what humans are going to go against the grain and not follow his word not to mention those who will be skeptical of it and go their own path. He knows all this and is still doing it because?

When the world gets rid of wickedness and people are living peacefully there wont be anybody wondering "hmmm, would things been different or better if we decided to govern ourselves?"
So why didn't GOD just create humans with the information that doubting him is a lost cause and will not succeed? You're telling me GOD created us and Satan, caused all of this pain and misfortune just so we wouldn't wonder "What if?"

I can't jiggy with that *$%%. Makes sense since we're made in his image though, taking insecurities to a whole other level.

 

[clarkkent415]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by EvansST

Exactly. Also if you read the end of the Job account Job was blessed with even more than he had before.

I know that but I don't see how that makes up for the fact that he knew the outcome before Satan even approached him. It's basically no different than an answer to a simple math equation. He put Job through that for his ego after creating Lucifer knowing how he would turn out.

Another reason why He's letting Satan rule this world is because the angels and mankind are watching. All outlets of human government will be exhausted and there wont be any question that God's way is the best.

So this is a grand experiment with angels as witnesses just so GOD can be proved right when he knows he's right? Not only that but he already knows what humans are going to go against the grain and not follow his word not to mention those who will be skeptical of it and go their own path. He knows all this and is still doing it because?

When the world gets rid of wickedness and people are living peacefully there wont be anybody wondering "hmmm, would things been different or better if we decided to govern ourselves?"
So why didn't GOD just create humans with the information that doubting him is a lost cause and will not succeed? You're telling me GOD created us and Satan, caused all of this pain and misfortune just so we wouldn't wonder "What if?"

I can't jiggy with that *$%%. Makes sense since we're made in his image though, taking insecurities to a whole other level.

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to. For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you? Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.

 

[clarkkent415]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by EvansST

Exactly. Also if you read the end of the Job account Job was blessed with even more than he had before.

I know that but I don't see how that makes up for the fact that he knew the outcome before Satan even approached him. It's basically no different than an answer to a simple math equation. He put Job through that for his ego after creating Lucifer knowing how he would turn out.

Another reason why He's letting Satan rule this world is because the angels and mankind are watching. All outlets of human government will be exhausted and there wont be any question that God's way is the best.

So this is a grand experiment with angels as witnesses just so GOD can be proved right when he knows he's right? Not only that but he already knows what humans are going to go against the grain and not follow his word not to mention those who will be skeptical of it and go their own path. He knows all this and is still doing it because?

When the world gets rid of wickedness and people are living peacefully there wont be anybody wondering "hmmm, would things been different or better if we decided to govern ourselves?"
So why didn't GOD just create humans with the information that doubting him is a lost cause and will not succeed? You're telling me GOD created us and Satan, caused all of this pain and misfortune just so we wouldn't wonder "What if?"

I can't jiggy with that *$%%. Makes sense since we're made in his image though, taking insecurities to a whole other level.

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to. For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you? Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.

 

[badmoonrison]

It just seems like the same 3-4 people are always in the religious threads, trolling hard

 

[badmoonrison]

It just seems like the same 3-4 people are always in the religious threads, trolling hard

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by EvansST

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

He needed to prove it to Satan? The one he created that he knew would betray him and would fail no matter what.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.
Instead of getting rid of the devil?

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to.

If what you say is true free will doesn't exist because GOD knows what you're going to do before you do it. He knows your choices before you're even presented with options before birth. In fact instead of programming us to all come to this conclusion he's programmed us to things in a roundabout way where he watches us fail and fail and possibly die before we ever come to the right answer.

For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you?

I'd want my friends to do both but either one is good for me. Spontaneous gift giving due to genuineness or gift giving due to planned out special day throughout the year.

Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.
Again this just seems like a self serving experiment to pamper and inflate his ego. How does this make him happy when he already knows you'd decide to serve him? And if this does make him happy it's an extremely ridiculous notion.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by EvansST

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

He needed to prove it to Satan? The one he created that he knew would betray him and would fail no matter what.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.
Instead of getting rid of the devil?

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to.

If what you say is true free will doesn't exist because GOD knows what you're going to do before you do it. He knows your choices before you're even presented with options before birth. In fact instead of programming us to all come to this conclusion he's programmed us to things in a roundabout way where he watches us fail and fail and possibly die before we ever come to the right answer.

For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you?

I'd want my friends to do both but either one is good for me. Spontaneous gift giving due to genuineness or gift giving due to planned out special day throughout the year.

Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.
Again this just seems like a self serving experiment to pamper and inflate his ego. How does this make him happy when he already knows you'd decide to serve him? And if this does make him happy it's an extremely ridiculous notion.

 

[clarkkent415]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by EvansST

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

He needed to prove it to Satan? The one he created that he knew would betray him and would fail no matter what.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.

Instead of getting rid of the devil?

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to.

If what you say is true free will doesn't exist because GOD knows what you're going to do before you do it. He knows your choices before you're even presented with options before birth. In fact instead of programming us to all come to this conclusion he's programmed us to things in a roundabout way where he watches us fail and fail and possibly die before we ever come to the right answer.

For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you?

I'd want my friends to do both but either one is good for me. Spontaneous gift giving due to genuineness or gift giving due to planned out special day throughout the year.

Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.
Again this just seems like a self serving experiment to pamper and inflate his ego. How does this make him happy when he already knows you'd decide to serve him? And if this does make him happy it's an extremely ridiculous notion.

I can answer your questions but do you really want to know the answers?

 

[clarkkent415]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by EvansST

1- He didn't need to prove it for himself.

He needed to prove it to Satan? The one he created that he knew would betray him and would fail no matter what.

2- Because he loves you. He hopes that everyone gets a fair opportunity to become part of his nation.

Instead of getting rid of the devil?

3- If that was the case free will wouldn't exist and people would be doing the will of God just because he programmed them to.

If what you say is true free will doesn't exist because GOD knows what you're going to do before you do it. He knows your choices before you're even presented with options before birth. In fact instead of programming us to all come to this conclusion he's programmed us to things in a roundabout way where he watches us fail and fail and possibly die before we ever come to the right answer.

For example would you want your friends to get you a gift because of a special day or would you want them to do it because they genuinely cared for you?

I'd want my friends to do both but either one is good for me. Spontaneous gift giving due to genuineness or gift giving due to planned out special day throughout the year.

Likewise Jehovah wants us to decide on our own to serve him and this makes him happy.
Again this just seems like a self serving experiment to pamper and inflate his ego. How does this make him happy when he already knows you'd decide to serve him? And if this does make him happy it's an extremely ridiculous notion.

I can answer your questions but do you really want to know the answers?

 

[Master Zik]

Why ask that now instead of answering them?

I hate to ask but are you stupid? Answer the questions. I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know. I'm actually getting somewhere and begininng to confirm some of things about your religion. So please answer.

 

[Master Zik]

Why ask that now instead of answering them?

I hate to ask but are you stupid? Answer the questions. I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know. I'm actually getting somewhere and begininng to confirm some of things about your religion. So please answer.

 

[mykickzareag21]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NCTwin

You guys are doing such a great job at teaching and helping some of the NTers to understand what we stand for. I'm proud to see you all standing up and kicking some real knowledge in here.

We're definitely in the "last days". Nations have risen up against nations, and people against people. We have to be aware of the things going on, because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

Evan, PM me.

Ok apologize in advance for being amused

....but are you insinuating violent conflict between people/ nations is something new. JW have an extremely skewed concept of time and history. But I was told 1000 years is like 2 hrs to God. So I guess the violent conflict that has been going on since biblical times is part of these "last days"?

Wait wait wait sooooooo u sed 2hrs is 1000yrs to GOD... so that means "GOD IS DEAD"... because the bible says he made us in his likely-ness... so i did the math... average human life span is 67ys.... so lets juss say if GOD lived a human life he would life 67yrs give or take... now lets say its true that 2hrs is 1000yrs... so that means his life span would be 293,460,000yrs... soooooo at the end of the day the earth is 4,500,000,000..... the bible states he made earth.... so doesnt that mean hes dead???????? (Btw- not trying to flame just stating the facts and my opinion)

 

[mykickzareag21]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by NCTwin

You guys are doing such a great job at teaching and helping some of the NTers to understand what we stand for. I'm proud to see you all standing up and kicking some real knowledge in here.

We're definitely in the "last days". Nations have risen up against nations, and people against people. We have to be aware of the things going on, because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

Evan, PM me.

Ok apologize in advance for being amused

....but are you insinuating violent conflict between people/ nations is something new. JW have an extremely skewed concept of time and history. But I was told 1000 years is like 2 hrs to God. So I guess the violent conflict that has been going on since biblical times is part of these "last days"?

Wait wait wait sooooooo u sed 2hrs is 1000yrs to GOD... so that means "GOD IS DEAD"... because the bible says he made us in his likely-ness... so i did the math... average human life span is 67ys.... so lets juss say if GOD lived a human life he would life 67yrs give or take... now lets say its true that 2hrs is 1000yrs... so that means his life span would be 293,460,000yrs... soooooo at the end of the day the earth is 4,500,000,000..... the bible states he made earth.... so doesnt that mean hes dead???????? (Btw- not trying to flame just stating the facts and my opinion)

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by badmoonRison

It just seems like the same 3-4 people are always in the religious threads, trolling hard

I love how on NT and the internet trolling has become synonymous with someone sharing ideas you don't agree with.

  

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by badmoonRison

It just seems like the same 3-4 people are always in the religious threads, trolling hard

I love how on NT and the internet trolling has become synonymous with someone sharing ideas you don't agree with.

  

 

[marionthebarberian]

no offense, but ya jw people seem boring as *@!!.

 

[marionthebarberian]

no offense, but ya jw people seem boring as *@!!.

 

[hod]

Originally Posted by NCTwin

You guys are doing such a great job at teaching and helping some of the NTers to understand what we stand for. I'm proud to see you all standing up and kicking some real knowledge in here.

We're definitely in the "last days". Nations have risen up against nations, and people against people. We have to be aware of the things going on, because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

Evan, PM me.

This has been going on for centuries so i dont find that a good reason for why we are in the "last days"

 

[hod]

Originally Posted by NCTwin

You guys are doing such a great job at teaching and helping some of the NTers to understand what we stand for. I'm proud to see you all standing up and kicking some real knowledge in here.

We're definitely in the "last days". Nations have risen up against nations, and people against people. We have to be aware of the things going on, because it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

Evan, PM me.

This has been going on for centuries so i dont find that a good reason for why we are in the "last days"

 

[757bred]

Master Zik wrote:

Master Zik,  I'm going to add something that hopefully clears up your questions. 

When we say that we all have free will, that means that we believe that everyone has a choice in whether they serve God or not.  We don't believe in fate, predestination, or that God has planned out what each individual will do from birth.  Also, that Bible teaches that the world conditions aren't what God originally purposed, but are the result of Satan, Adam and Eve CHOOSING to rebel.  They all were created perfect, but made conscious decisions to do things their own way. 

A way to illustrate whole situation- there's a math teacher trying to his class how to solve a hard problem.  But one student jumps up and said that the teacher doesn't know what he's doing, he and that the student has a better way to solve it. The whole class is watching, and some side with the student against the teacher.  The teacher could kick them out for disrupting his class, but then the other students would wonder if maybe they had a better way and the teacher threw them out avoid being proved wrong.  The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, the students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class.  It's the same with God, since the angels were watching, he's allowing enough time to pass by to solve the issue for once and for all.  After his point has been made, he'll step in and restore things to way he originally intended. (No sickness, death, crime etc)  He's actually giving humans a fair chance to prove whether they can successfully rule themselves.  After he feels it's enough, the issue will never be raised again because all creation will know the answer. 

 

[757bred]

Master Zik wrote:

Master Zik,  I'm going to add something that hopefully clears up your questions. 

When we say that we all have free will, that means that we believe that everyone has a choice in whether they serve God or not.  We don't believe in fate, predestination, or that God has planned out what each individual will do from birth.  Also, that Bible teaches that the world conditions aren't what God originally purposed, but are the result of Satan, Adam and Eve CHOOSING to rebel.  They all were created perfect, but made conscious decisions to do things their own way. 

A way to illustrate whole situation- there's a math teacher trying to his class how to solve a hard problem.  But one student jumps up and said that the teacher doesn't know what he's doing, he and that the student has a better way to solve it. The whole class is watching, and some side with the student against the teacher.  The teacher could kick them out for disrupting his class, but then the other students would wonder if maybe they had a better way and the teacher threw them out avoid being proved wrong.  The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, the students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class.  It's the same with God, since the angels were watching, he's allowing enough time to pass by to solve the issue for once and for all.  After his point has been made, he'll step in and restore things to way he originally intended. (No sickness, death, crime etc)  He's actually giving humans a fair chance to prove whether they can successfully rule themselves.  After he feels it's enough, the issue will never be raised again because all creation will know the answer. 

 

[Master Zik]

We don't believe in fate, predestination, or that God has planned out what each individual will do from birth.
But you do believe GOD is omnipotent right?

Also, that Bible teaches that the world conditions aren't what God originally purposed, but are the result of Satan, Adam and Eve CHOOSING to rebel.
Which GOD would've known or are you saying GOD doesn't know?

They all were created perfect, but made conscious decisions to do things their own way.
So perfect beings chose not to do things the right way? Since GOD's way is the only right way  to do it right?

A way to illustrate whole situation- there's a math teacher trying to his class how to solve a hard problem.  But one student jumps up and said that the teacher doesn't know what he's doing, he and that the student has a better way to solve it. The whole class is watching, and some side with the student against the teacher.  The teacher could kick them out for disrupting his class, but then the other students would wonder if maybe they had a better way and the teacher threw them out avoid being proved wrong.  The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, the students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class.  It's the same with God, since the angels were watching, he's allowing enough time to pass by to solve the issue for once and for all.  After his point has been made, he'll step in and restore things to way he originally intended. (No sickness, death, crime etc)  He's actually giving humans a fair chance to prove whether they can successfully rule themselves.  After he feels it's enough, the issue will never be raised again because all creation will know the answer.
I understand all of this I'm just trying to figure out on the side why one would believe this.

 

[Master Zik]

We don't believe in fate, predestination, or that God has planned out what each individual will do from birth.
But you do believe GOD is omnipotent right?

Also, that Bible teaches that the world conditions aren't what God originally purposed, but are the result of Satan, Adam and Eve CHOOSING to rebel.
Which GOD would've known or are you saying GOD doesn't know?

They all were created perfect, but made conscious decisions to do things their own way.
So perfect beings chose not to do things the right way? Since GOD's way is the only right way  to do it right?

A way to illustrate whole situation- there's a math teacher trying to his class how to solve a hard problem.  But one student jumps up and said that the teacher doesn't know what he's doing, he and that the student has a better way to solve it. The whole class is watching, and some side with the student against the teacher.  The teacher could kick them out for disrupting his class, but then the other students would wonder if maybe they had a better way and the teacher threw them out avoid being proved wrong.  The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, the students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class.  It's the same with God, since the angels were watching, he's allowing enough time to pass by to solve the issue for once and for all.  After his point has been made, he'll step in and restore things to way he originally intended. (No sickness, death, crime etc)  He's actually giving humans a fair chance to prove whether they can successfully rule themselves.  After he feels it's enough, the issue will never be raised again because all creation will know the answer.
I understand all of this I'm just trying to figure out on the side why one would believe this.