being screwed in online poker unappreciation

[cragmatic]

I know I'm a good poker player...

I've walked away from a table at a casino starting with 100 and leaving between 700-1000 on three occasions...

Only played at the casino a few times since one isn't close by..

The one time I lost I had been playing Black Jack.. up like 400, so i took 100 to the Hold Em tables... after about 2 hours I was up another 400 or so... getdealt Kings and guy hits flush on the river.. very next hand get dealt Aces and guy hits flush on river... Same guy, I was a bit heated since that was a good1000 dollar swing I figure had i won those hands.. but I was still up from black jack so I walked away and was fine.

I know bad beats are a part of the game, and if I get a bad beat on someone making a good play I accept it.

But lately in online poker it seems people call with outlandish *$%!...

Another hand for example I get like A10... I raise 6 times BB... flop A33... The guy called with 9/3 off ....I don't understand the logic in that call....

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Running bad for 50k hands is standard. Some run bad for 100k hands.
Some people might never experience a substantial downswing. Some people constantly run bad and may never run good.


Variance is part of the game.


Oh and PP needs to call a minraise (especially in early tourneys) just to punish the minraise donks.
If you want to fold out low PP, you don't give them monster pot and implied pot odds.

Collusion prob does happen much more than people think though.
It just too easy for some not to practice it.

i agree that there are places where PP has to call that min-raise... but early in a tournament may not be the best spot, seems like a perfectsituation to get trapped while you're trying to set your own.

I don't really think there are many 100 percent white/black/right/wrong situations in poker - because you're always playing an opponent that has to beconsidered an unknown to some degree... so it's kinda pointless to really argue about it, but I just think there is a different angle to look at it fromthan "oh i got a bad beat"... and that's pretty true of nearly every hand.

If you get your money in with the best of it and lose - then yeah, sucks... but you do it everytime and win in the long run. If you're not in with thebest though, you have to figure out what you could've done differently - and if there's nothing you could've done, then you just have to chalk itup to bad luck and move on.

In this case - it's probably a bit of the last two things I mentioned.

I do agree that bad beat stories suck though, and need to stop... we've heard them all, every single one.. and experienced most of them ourselves.

There are only so many possible outcomes in poker - so it's not all that interesting to hear something when you can predict how the story ends 99 percentof the time.

I know I'm a good poker player...
good poker players is a really relative thing. And just because you won 3 times at a casino doesn't make you a good player... in fact, youwere playing the lowest table in the room so there were probably a lot of BAD players there.

Now if you want to say you're a winning poker player, that's another story.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Running bad for 50k hands is standard. Some run bad for 100k hands.
Some people might never experience a substantial downswing. Some people constantly run bad and may never run good.


Variance is part of the game.


Oh and PP needs to call a minraise (especially in early tourneys) just to punish the minraise donks.
If you want to fold out low PP, you don't give them monster pot and implied pot odds.

Collusion prob does happen much more than people think though.
It just too easy for some not to practice it.

i agree that there are places where PP has to call that min-raise... but early in a tournament may not be the best spot, seems like a perfect situation to get trapped while you're trying to set your own.

I don't really think there are many 100 percent white/black/right/wrong situations in poker - because you're always playing an opponent that has to be considered an unknown to some degree... so it's kinda pointless to really argue about it, but I just think there is a different angle to look at it from than "oh i got a bad beat"... and that's pretty true of nearly every hand.

If you get your money in with the best of it and lose - then yeah, sucks... but you do it everytime and win in the long run. If you're not in with the best though, you have to figure out what you could've done differently - and if there's nothing you could've done, then you just have to chalk it up to bad luck and move on.

In this case - it's probably a bit of the last two things I mentioned.

I do agree that bad beat stories suck though, and need to stop... we've heard them all, every single one.. and experienced most of them ourselves.

There are only so many possible outcomes in poker - so it's not all that interesting to hear something when you can predict how the story ends 99 percent of the time.

You should be calling minraises with PP 100% of the time early in a tournament. Especially if calling is < 5% of your stack( 5-10% is at theplayers discretion and low PP should not be called with >10% of stack early in tournament).
The odds of villain flopping a higher set, straight, or flush are so low that it shouldn't even enter your mind. If you get coolered on the flop than so beit. Over the long run it'll be extremely profitable.
So long as you get your money in while you are ahead there shouldn't be a problem with these types of situations.

The player who open raised with 22 early on made the mistake. Over the long run he will get killed doing that even against decent players.
In this case he just got lucky.


Of course position amd the tendencies of your opponent(s) are important but so early in a tournament you're almost forced to setmine at these odds.
The standard is to play ultra tight during the early blind levels of an SNG but you can't be completely risk averse. Playing ultra tight during the earlylevels iof an SNG works great if you're running good but if you're on a downswing you'll miss so many opportunities that you'll run multiplesworse than you really should.

 

[the north west]

you call with pp 100% of the time if your stack allows it

how can you get trapped tyring to hit a set, baring coolers?

also for the dude that raised it 6bb with a10 you are a moron

if you know your opponents are calling light then why raise it so much with a a10 type hand cause you aren't gonna drive them out and you just risk beingfelted because you have much more money invested

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Running bad for 50k hands is standard. Some run bad for 100k hands.
Some people might never experience a substantial downswing. Some people constantly run bad and may never run good.


Variance is part of the game.


Oh and PP needs to call a minraise (especially in early tourneys) just to punish the minraise donks.
If you want to fold out low PP, you don't give them monster pot and implied pot odds.

Collusion prob does happen much more than people think though.
It just too easy for some not to practice it.

i agree that there are places where PP has to call that min-raise... but early in a tournament may not be the best spot, seems like a perfect situation to get trapped while you're trying to set your own.

I don't really think there are many 100 percent white/black/right/wrong situations in poker - because you're always playing an opponent that has to be considered an unknown to some degree... so it's kinda pointless to really argue about it, but I just think there is a different angle to look at it from than "oh i got a bad beat"... and that's pretty true of nearly every hand.

If you get your money in with the best of it and lose - then yeah, sucks... but you do it everytime and win in the long run. If you're not in with the best though, you have to figure out what you could've done differently - and if there's nothing you could've done, then you just have to chalk it up to bad luck and move on.

In this case - it's probably a bit of the last two things I mentioned.

I do agree that bad beat stories suck though, and need to stop... we've heard them all, every single one.. and experienced most of them ourselves.

There are only so many possible outcomes in poker - so it's not all that interesting to hear something when you can predict how the story ends 99 percent of the time.

You should be calling minraises with PP 100% of the time early in a tournament. Especially if calling is < 5% of your stack( 5-10% is at the players discretion and low PP should not be called with >10% of stack early in tournament).
The odds of villain flopping a higher set, straight, or flush are so low that it shouldn't even enter your mind. If you get coolered on the flop than so be it. Over the long run it'll be extremely profitable.
So long as you get your money in while you are ahead there shouldn't be a problem with these types of situations.

The player who open raised with 22 early on made the mistake. Over the long run he will get killed doing that even against decent players.
In this case he just got lucky.


Of course position amd the tendencies of your opponent(s) are important but so early in a tournament you're almost forced to setmine at these odds.
The standard is to play ultra tight during the early blind levels of an SNG but you can't be completely risk averse. Playing ultra tight during the early levels iof an SNG works great if you're running good but if you're on a downswing you'll miss so many opportunities that you'll run multiples worse than you really should.

I just really don't believe in flat-calling while you're weak - you have no idea where you're at in the hand. If he raises back atthat guy, 9/10 times he folds and dude picks up a pot. The 1/10 he calls the guy loses anyways to the cooler... chances are if the guy does call a re-raisethough without that cooler, he's holding a stronger hand that doesn't hit against that guy's 2/2 so he's still golden in the hand.

But to let a guy get into a hand having no idea where you're at seems a bit silly to me - you know the min-raise tells you absolutely nothing about hishand, it's only after raising him where you might pick something up.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

---

I just really don't believe in flat-calling while you're weak - you have no idea where you're at in the hand. If he raises back at that guy, 9/10 times he folds and dude picks up a pot. The 1/10 he calls the guy loses anyways to the cooler... chances are if the guy does call a re-raise though without that cooler, he's holding a stronger hand that doesn't hit against that guy's 2/2 so he's still golden in the hand.

But to let a guy get into a hand having no idea where you're at seems a bit silly to me - you know the min-raise tells you absolutely nothing about his hand, it's only after raising him where you might pick something up.


When you setmine you don't really care what villain has because so few hands can beat you on the flop.
If you're trying to outplay the guy post flop than yes,flat calling with small PP is counterproductive and dangerous.

You're solely playing the board texture on the flop when set mining early on in an SNG.
The important thing is to be aggressive on drawy boards when you do hit a set with low PP, valuetown villain on dry boards, and give up if you miss.

Cash games are diff in that you may be able to push people off hands even if you missed the flop (because cash game players are a bit more aware of somethingmore than TPTK

) but in tourney's sets are so well disguised unless the board has paired that very few villains will put you on a set unless they haveprior history with you.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

---

I just really don't believe in flat-calling while you're weak - you have no idea where you're at in the hand. If he raises back at that guy, 9/10 times he folds and dude picks up a pot. The 1/10 he calls the guy loses anyways to the cooler... chances are if the guy does call a re-raise though without that cooler, he's holding a stronger hand that doesn't hit against that guy's 2/2 so he's still golden in the hand.

But to let a guy get into a hand having no idea where you're at seems a bit silly to me - you know the min-raise tells you absolutely nothing about his hand, it's only after raising him where you might pick something up.

When you setmine you don't really care what villain has because so few hands can beat you on the flop.
If you're trying to outplay the guy post flop than yes,flat calling with small PP is counterproductive and dangerous.

You're solely playing the board texture on the flop when set mining early on in an SNG.
The important thing is to be aggressive on drawy boards when you do hit a set with low PP, valuetown villain on dry boards, and give up if you miss.

Cash games are diff in that you may be able to push people off hands even if you missed the flop (because cash game players are a bit more aware of somethign more than TPTK

) but in tourney's sets are so well disguised unless the board has paired.




Fair enough - point taken.

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by the north west

you call with pp 100% of the time if your stack allows it

how can you get trapped tyring to hit a set, baring coolers?

also for the dude that raised it 6bb with a10 you are a moron

if you know your opponents are calling light then why raise it so much with a a10 type hand cause you aren't gonna drive them out and you just risk being felted because you have much more money invested

God Damn we think JUST alike.

 

[royal airness 29]

What are these "huds" you guys speak of?

 

[kingjames23tx]

worst bad beat i ever suffered:

bubble of a 9-man SNG on stars, 200/400 w antes. three players (including me) have ~3.5-4k chips, low stack is ~2k. i'm dealt KK in the BB, short stackshoves, folds to me, snap call, he turns over KTo (9-1 favorite preflop)

Flop is K J J, which gives me the nut boat and no way for me to lose... unfortunately, turn and river bring running Js for the chop (4 of a kind jacks, Kkicker). odds of runner-runner there are like 1/1000. get coolered on the next two hands and end up bubbling.

 

[crazy ebw]

I've heard worse. A 9 man sit n go? WHHHHOOOOPPPPPPEEEEEEEEE

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Stuff like this just makes me wonder if this online stuff is just set-up/ rigged or something

Nope - just proves that you are willing to call a bet with a weak starting hand.





- its been proven that some people are getting cheated (3 videos for the reading impared): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633254.shtml

- i would have embeded, but the CBS embed feature wont let you embed without it being on auto play. last time i posted a vid from there crank startedcrying.....

 

[sportinjordans916]

^^ there was a scandal on UB, but you are a moron if you play there anyways (its horrible)

Also im sure for most of the $5 and $10 sit&gos you are playing no one is trying to scam you out of your $5 -- any cheating that occurs is in the nosebleedgames and it DOES happen just be smart about what is going on at the table.

 

[obie21]

ive won back to back live tourneys

 

[sportinjordans916]

Originally Posted by obie21

ive won back to back live tourneys

info? where at? buy in? prize? Congrats its a great feeling

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by sportinjordans916

^^ there was a scandal on UB, but you are a moron if you play there anyways (its horrible)

Also im sure for most of the $5 and $10 sit&gos you are playing no one is trying to scam you out of your $5 -- any cheating that occurs is in the nosebleed games and it DOES happen just be smart about what is going on at the table.

- you're sure eh? and no disrespect to your expertise on the subject because ive never gambled online. thing is im apreventative person and with a couple of sites out there already caught i wouldnt even risk it....but hey thats just me. ftr, the video said it was more thanjust one site....

 

[sportinjordans916]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by sportinjordans916

^^ there was a scandal on UB, but you are a moron if you play there anyways (its horrible)

Also im sure for most of the $5 and $10 sit&gos you are playing no one is trying to scam you out of your $5 -- any cheating that occurs is in the nosebleed games and it DOES happen just be smart about what is going on at the table.

- you're sure eh? and no disrespect to your expertise on the subject because ive never gambled online. thing is im a preventative person and with a couple of sites out there already caught i wouldnt even risk it....but hey thats just me. ftr, the video said it was more than just one site....

I believe the scandal I was referring to was Ultimate Bet & Absolute poker where an Employee gained access to an "test" Account thatwas able to see all cards on the table...

There is different types of "cheating" on all sites such as "Collusion" & "Soft Play" etc. It happens a very small amountand probably won't be affected by the average $5/$10 NikeTalk sng player...

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Stuff like this just makes me wonder if this online stuff is just set-up/ rigged or something

Nope - just proves that you are willing to call a bet with a weak starting hand.

- its been proven that some people are getting cheated (3 videos for the reading impared): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633254.shtml

- i would have embeded, but the CBS embed feature wont let you embed without it being on auto play. last time i posted a vid from there crank started crying.....






everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal... we're not stupid, of course collusion takes place. But just because you takea bad beat doesn't mean the system is cheating - like everyone else has pointed out, the poker sites make the most money by having the most people, not byscaring people away with shady happenings - so their entire business model relies on them being completely open, honest, and fair.

The only thing with cheating that took place was a few scandalous people with inside connections - that's completely different.

 

[yuras718]

I just had a wack beat on the river. I come in with 8 Q(limped in on the dealer button) flop comes 9 Q 10. He bet i re raised he goes all in i call. He flips j10.. jack on the turn for my straight his 2 pairs.. and than another jack on the river..

 

[mrmossyman84]

please lets organize a NT cash game

it would be over for some of you ppl

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Stuff like this just makes me wonder if this online stuff is just set-up/ rigged or something

Nope - just proves that you are willing to call a bet with a weak starting hand.

- its been proven that some people are getting cheated (3 videos for the reading impared): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633254.shtml

- i would have embeded, but the CBS embed feature wont let you embed without it being on auto play. last time i posted a vid from there crank started crying.....

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal... we're not stupid, of course collusion takes place. But just because you take a bad beat doesn't mean the system is cheating - like everyone else has pointed out, the poker sites make the most money by having the most people, not by scaring people away with shady happenings - so their entire business model relies on them being completely open, honest, and fair.

The only thing with cheating that took place was a few scandalous people with inside connections - that's completely different.





- pal eh?

and i tried my best to notoffend anyone that does gamble online, and you still got a little sand in your vagina

, my bad, no need to stop being a lady.....

- so let me get this straight?

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal...

- really now? so you know there are confirmed reports of cheating.....yet you gamble online anyway? what was the phrase you used again....

we're not stupid

.....oh okay.

 

[fr3sh like ughh]

Originally Posted by mrmossyman84

please lets organize a NT cash game

it would be over for some of you ppl

how could we make that happen?

 

[curiousgeorg3]

aint online poker illegal in the states? which sites are yall going to?

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Stuff like this just makes me wonder if this online stuff is just set-up/ rigged or something

Nope - just proves that you are willing to call a bet with a weak starting hand.

- its been proven that some people are getting cheated (3 videos for the reading impared): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633254.shtml

- i would have embeded, but the CBS embed feature wont let you embed without it being on auto play. last time i posted a vid from there crank started crying.....

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal... we're not stupid, of course collusion takes place. But just because you take a bad beat doesn't mean the system is cheating - like everyone else has pointed out, the poker sites make the most money by having the most people, not by scaring people away with shady happenings - so their entire business model relies on them being completely open, honest, and fair.

The only thing with cheating that took place was a few scandalous people with inside connections - that's completely different.

- pal eh?

and i tried my best to not offend anyone that does gamble online, and you still got a little sand in your vagina

, my bad, no need to stop being a lady.....

- so let me get this straight?

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal...

- really now? so you know there are confirmed reports of cheating.....yet you gamble online anyway? what was the phrase you used again....

we're not stupid

.....oh okay.

That's like saying... "Oh you live in the city? I heard there's crime in the city... you must be stupid to live there".... Isolatedincidents taking place in 0.000000000000000000000001 percent of all the hands ever played online doesn't make it a dangerous game. I guess all the peopleI know who've made ten's of thousands of dollars playing online poker are stupid too... I mean, it's rigged after all considering 2 people got awaywith this thing for awhile...

It's obvious you know very little about the situation outside of your little news blurb - and probably even less about online gambling in general or elseyou wouldn't be talking like a scared little child about it all. Maybe you should do some research on the matter before you go assuming you know all abouta topic based on a headline you saw.

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Stuff like this just makes me wonder if this online stuff is just set-up/ rigged or something

Nope - just proves that you are willing to call a bet with a weak starting hand.

- its been proven that some people are getting cheated (3 videos for the reading impared): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633254.shtml

- i would have embeded, but the CBS embed feature wont let you embed without it being on auto play. last time i posted a vid from there crank started crying.....

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal... we're not stupid, of course collusion takes place. But just because you take a bad beat doesn't mean the system is cheating - like everyone else has pointed out, the poker sites make the most money by having the most people, not by scaring people away with shady happenings - so their entire business model relies on them being completely open, honest, and fair.

The only thing with cheating that took place was a few scandalous people with inside connections - that's completely different.

- pal eh?

and i tried my best to not offend anyone that does gamble online, and you still got a little sand in your vagina

, my bad, no need to stop being a lady.....

- so let me get this straight?

everyone in here probably know more about those scandals than you do, pal...

- really now? so you know there are confirmed reports of cheating.....yet you gamble online anyway? what was the phrase you used again....

we're not stupid

.....oh okay.

It's obvious you know very little about the situation outside of your little news blurb - and probably even less about online gambling in general or else you wouldn't be talking like a scared little child about it all. Maybe you should do some research on the matter before you go assuming you know all about a topic based on a headline you saw.


- thanks detective....

- i never assumed i knew anything as evidenced by me saying:

no disrespect to your expertise on the subject because ive never gambled online



- but you looked right over that and got your panties in a bunch.

- i was simply saying a "hey, if you didnt know already", but you took that and got offended? seriously?? i even went out of my way to put that linein specifically because i know i dont know everything about online gambling and to avoid replys like this. jesus, talk about sensitive

- im still laughing at the "pal" comment

i bet you talk like that in real life.....

- next time try reading the whole comment instead of just scanning through. "pal"