Blue Jays Entertaining Offers for Doc...

[proshares]

OKB,

Just to gauge what it would take to land him...say if the Braves offered Hanson, Heyward and another prospect or if Florida offered Maybin, Stanton andMorrison would those offers be anywhere close to enough? Or would they need more?

 

[N41D]

Hughes only got crushed in one start? Maybe we have different definitions of what 2 quality starts and an ERA north of 5.00 through 7 starts is...

The fact he went 5 or fewer innings in all but 2 of his starts tells me all I need to know...

Only delusional Yankee fans believe he's got the type value that headlines this type of deal right now, especially when it involves trades within thedivision...

 

[john sterling]

Nowitness41Dirk wrote:

---

Hughes only got crushed in one start? Maybe we have different definitions of what 2 quality starts and an ERA north of 5.00 through 7 starts is...

The fact he went 5 or fewer innings in all but 2 of his starts tells me all I need to know...

Only delusional Yankee fans believe he's got the type value that headlines this type of deal right now, especially when it involves trades within the division...
Please point me to where I said he would headline a deal? I love the term "delusional Yankee fan" like thinking a 23 year old with greatstuff might turn out to be pretty good is delusional.

Which starts besides Baltimore did he get crushed in? How well and deep should a 23 year old be going in games? Yeah he definitely doesn't have the samevalue as 07 I know that but to say he's not someone Toronto would be interested in for Halladay is ridiculous.

 

[durden7]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by John Sterling

Nowitness41Dirk wrote:

---

Originally Posted by John Sterling

A 19 year old hitting .336/.391/.556 isnt elite? I guess that means Smoak isnt elite since those numbers are basically similar. Please...

So a 19 year old top 5 hitting prospect, a 23 year old pitcher that's finally healthy pitching well in the AL East and a 21 year old centerfielder at .317/.385/.557 is no good?

Like I said they probably cant make the best offer (unless Joba or Cano are involved, which would make it close) but Halladay has to aprove the trade which means he would want compensation and what team has the resources for that?

Montero has no position. He's great with the bat, but he's supposedly terrible everywhere defensively.. What's the real value of a DH prospect through trade?

.. Smoak is every bit the hitter, and he's a potential gold glove first baseman... So, yeah...

Phil Hughes' value is in the dumps right now, regardless what you want to believe... Until he can prove to be healthy and effective as a starter, he ain't a headliner in a trade like this... He got CRUSHED in all but one start this year before moving to the pen...

And Austin Jackson has more than his share of doubters...

It's an OK offer, but like I said, there are probably AT LEAST 4 or 5 teams that can make better ones...

I hear kind of mixed opinons on Montero, some say he is a bad catcher and others say he might be able to stick there. If all else fails he could be adequate at first, but that bat absolutly plays anywhere and cant be ignored. He's also only 19 so he can still develop into something defensivly.

And Hughes got CRUSHED in one start this year, not all of them. He's been healthy this year and its evident by the fact that his fastball was 94 in his starts unlike the 90 and 89 he was hiting last year.

In your opinion does Hughes or Buchholz have more value right now?

Like I said I know the Yankees cant make the best offer but add there finacial capabilities into it considering Halladay will command an extension about what Santana and Sabathia got then you have to eliminate many of the teams that have the prospects to make the deal.

In the end I believe he goes to the Phillies.

The fact that you start your argument with Phil Hughes is finally healthy should tell you what his value really is, whether deserved or not, Clay Bucholz has more value right now by virtue of the fact were not sitting wondering when he will finally be healthy.

I've looked through the Phillies minor league system, and they don't have the prospects to do it either.

Unless Texas or Boston calls, I think he is back in a Blue Jay uniform next year.



Ummm.... The Phillies DO have the prospects.

 

[proshares]

Brown, Carrasco, Happ, Donald and Marson might not be the top end prospects they're looking for...good prospects but not eye opening great ones.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Brown, Carrasco, Happ, Donald and Marson might not be the top end prospects they're looking for...good prospects but not eye opening great ones.

Precisely.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Proshares

Brown, Carrasco, Happ, Donald and Marson might not be the top end prospects they're looking for...good prospects but not eye opening great ones.

Precisely.

Check out my previous post though, would those prospects from ATL/FLA be sufficient or would they need even more to pry Halladay away?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Proshares

OKB,

Just to gauge what it would take to land him...say if the Braves offered Hanson, Heyward and another prospect or if Florida offered Maybin, Stanton and Morrison would those offers be anywhere close to enough? Or would they need more?

Hanson, Heyword, and 2 other guys would be a done deal instantly.

Basically we need 3 top 50 level prospects close to the big leagues one of them being a potential ace and the other being, preferably a lefty power hitter. andthen add another low level guy.


If we somehow managed to get Heyward, or Smaok I think I might cry tears of joy despite the passing of my lord and savior Roy Halladay, it would be a sad dayto lose Roy but like many other great leaders sometimes they have to die for the sins of others (Blue Jay management.), but I know we will be toghether in theafterlife when he puts on a Blue Jay cap upon entrance into the hall of fame.

 

[john sterling]

What would your ideal realistic package be?

What was the Boston offer that you like?

 

[proshares]

Boston can offer a lot...Clay, Anderson, Bowden, Bard hell even Ellsbury and Lester if they wanted Halladay that bad.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Boston can offer a lot...Clay, Anderson, Bowden, Bard hell even Ellsbury and Lester if they wanted Halladay that bad.

I doubt they would offer Lester and I don't wan't anything to do with Ellsburrys wackness, but yeah if the Red Sox are serious thats theway they start.


Bottom line I don't think he will be traded, I think he is back here next year and even then I'm not sure he gets traded, the only way the Blue Jayscan stomach the publicity gut punch of trading Roy Hallday is if they RAPE the other teams farm system, that's something most teams won't let happen.

 

[proshares]

^ You wouldn't want to happen to take Brackman off our hands?

 

[DeadsetAce]

i would dump buchholz in a heartbeat...

 

[john sterling]

Maybe its me being a homer or what not I just dont see how Clay, Lars, Bowden and Bard are better than Hughes, Jesus, Mcallister and Jackson.

 

[proshares]

^ Just typing those names make me nervous about the future Red Sox rotation

 

[briannnnn]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Proshares

Boston can offer a lot...Clay, Anderson, Bowden, Bard hell even Ellsbury and Lester if they wanted Halladay that bad.

I doubt they would offer Lester and I don't wan't anything to do with Ellsburrys wackness, but yeah if the Red Sox are serious thats the way they start.


Bottom line I don't think he will be traded, I think he is back here next year and even then I'm not sure he gets traded, the only way the Blue Jays can stomach the publicity gut punch of trading Roy Hallday is if they RAPE the other teams farm system, that's something most teams won't let happen.

I agree. I don't see Halladay getting traded. I'm sure teams will try but I would be really surprised if a Halladay trade actuallyhappens.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by John Sterling

Maybe its me being a homer or what not I just dont see how Clay, Lars, Bowden and Bard are better than Hughes, Jesus, Mcallister and Jackson.

i believe clay has higher value than hughes in the eyes of most GMs around the league. not saying that's right or wrong or anything, but GMsaround baseball love buchholz. from there on, bowden and bard are two i actually wouldn't even want to give up for doc, lars i don't know much aboutyet. bowden and bard have a lot of promise tho. i don't see the sox putting a package together that includes more than any two of the above mentioned guys.

 

[proshares]

In all seriousness, if Brackman's injuries don't take too much of a toll on him and he become more durable he'll be better than all of thoseprospects (Yanks/Sox farm systems).

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Lars>Montero
Clay>Hughes
Bowden=Mcallister

and Jackson has Vernon Wells is blocking his way.

Plus Daniel Bard will be terrifying coming in the 9th to shut the door.

 

[briannnnn]

Brackman still has a LOT to prove to me (and others) since he hasn't thrown a lot because of injuries.

 

[john sterling]

In all seriousness how the hell is Lars>Montero? And Clay>Hughes?

 

[ill i am]

Originally Posted by MFr3shM

Damn Yankee fans wanting it all. Y You just got CC and AJ two Aces (even though they aren't pitching great) and now you want another Ace in Roy Halladay you guys are so greedy its sickening.

Yep, because fans should be complacent and not expect their team to ALWAYS look to improve and get better.

99.9% of MLB fans would want Doc on their team...but Yankee fans are "greedy" for wanting the best pitcher in baseball.

IMO, there's no chance he goes to the Yankees (or any AL East team) but that doesn't mean you can't entertain the thought.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by briannnnn

Brackman still has a LOT to prove to me (and others) since he hasn't thrown a lot because of injuries.

Yea and he's not getting any younger, what is he 23 now? And still has not pitched in the minors. At least he has that Scott Boras contract still behindhim. I hope he pulls through though. He's my back-up to IPK

 

[durden7]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Brown, Carrasco, Happ, Donald and Marson might not be the top end prospects they're looking for...good prospects but not eye opening great ones.

Then he's staying in Toronto and JP is a moron. If he's looking for multiple players that are sure fire all stars then Halladay isnt going anywhere. Doc isnt worth that.

If a trade of Donald, Carrasco/Brown, Marson + a major leaguer then theres going to be no deal.

 

[john sterling]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by John Sterling

Maybe its me being a homer or what not I just dont see how Clay, Lars, Bowden and Bard are better than Hughes, Jesus, Mcallister and Jackson.

i believe clay has higher value than hughes in the eyes of most GMs around the league. not saying that's right or wrong or anything, but GMs around baseball love buchholz. from there on, bowden and bard are two i actually wouldn't even want to give up for doc, lars i don't know much about yet. bowden and bard have a lot of promise tho. i don't see the sox putting a package together that includes more than any two of the above mentioned guys.

I just cant see an argument as to why Clay has more value than Hughes. Smiliar value? Yea definetly but not higher. Bard scares me because I hatehard throwing relievers. Bowden I think is more of the Ian Kennedy style where he doesnt have the great stuff but can get hitters out. Thats might nottranslate to the majors.