Broadcast of David Ortiz roast cancelled b/c of racist jokes...

[tay1]

Gronk been corny

 

[Mark Antony]

Clearly not the point. Big networks mostly cater to families, ie something everyone including the kids can watch. Not liberals, not conservatives, but families. You've taken that and made it a conservative talking head point. That's bizarre man, you can't see that?

 

[diego]

So I'm only on page 2 but if NH out here smashing that report button, I'm ready to call you racist, b.

For the record, I thoroughly enjoy roasts because of just how much these people push the line.

Some jokes will fail, some will succeed but all willing participants should be aware of what they are getting themselves into.

 

[ninjahood]

For those who see comedy as an art, "shock humor" is just cheap and vulgar. It has all the artistic merit of a 5 year old treating their classmates to armpit flatulence. What yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is to free speech, telling racist jokes in a crowded theater is to comedy. It's an easy - and potentially dangerous - way to get a rise out of people.

meth, you're right, but you're missing da fact that when you're participating in a competitive art like comedy, or even sports, or hell.. politics, people emphasize and prioritize execution over ethical ramifications.

"cheap and easy" works.

pretty sure if a comedy routine is paced like a game, da comedian isn't gonna forgo a easy layup joke for a riskier harder joke with more wonk for ethical reasons, they want that win.

hell, if we take it to arcade fighting games, a dudes ain't gonna resist picking his cheesy squad out of some arbitrary way to get da W.

its also similar to when folks do rap Battles, (its basically rhyming roast jokes) nothing is off da table, da Win is more important than da ethical ramifications of da tactics to win.

 

[Coromanti]

It's not economical to be not PC. The outrage machine causes advertisers to pull out, people to get fired as the fall guys, and a world wind apology tour that no one wants to do.

PC culture has caused a chilling effect in the main stream media.

Silver lining is because this isn't the UK or Germany, people can speak online hence the rise of alternative media.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

At its core, most comedy comes from absurdity.  Humor routinely exposes the gap between expectation and result.  90% of "America's Funniest Home Videos" can be distilled to "person attempts to do X; it does not go well."  These are things even toddlers find funny.  Once they become verbal, young children are able to "get" simple "knock knock" jokes that play on double meanings.  (e.g. the expected form, "Boo who?" and the unexpected form "boo hoo.")

Through satire, a skilled comedian can expose the absurdities in our shared traditions and institutions.  They can poke at the notion that "our social betters" are actually better.  They expose hypocrisy.  They identify non sequiturs.  

If we acknowledge that absurdity is rhetorically, if not cognitively, combustible, it makes sense that many comedians would try to practice their craft in an ethical, responsible way.  If you consider fireworks an "art," that doesn't mean it's good practice to commit arson, or that anything that can be ignited, should. 

To this end, the comedians I most respect all tend to follow a very simple and well known guideline:  don't punch down. 


Traditionally, a roast has been an opportunity for comedians to poke fun at the famous or powerful.  Knocking such people off their pedestals humanizes them.  A roast emphasizes that, no matter how lofty a person's status or position, we are all flawed.  We're all human.  
Making fun of a celebrity for character flaws accomplishes this goal.  Making fun of a celebrity for being a minority targets that minority group.  Hierarchically, it denigrates the celebrity by association - but operates by further stomping down a group that has already been historically suppressed.  It's punching down.  

Not only is that unethical, but, as many comedians and comedy fans would argue, it's lazy.  (And, to the comedian who takes their craft seriously, the latter might be the greater offense.) 


Race/gender stereotypes use humor in a subversive way, to emphasize the purported differences between "us" and "them."  Small children are particularly prone to these jokes as they're learning about their identity and place in society.  Jokes have traditionally reinforced things like race or gender boundaries.  "This is what it means to be ____."  "You don't want to be like ____."  "Aren't you glad you're not ____?"  Many jokes in this vein all share a similar structure and purpose.  You could swap out the subjects of various "dumb" jokes (e.g. the inventory of the "screen-door submarine") and they'd still function.  Often, they're just "point and shoot."  The target is interchangeable.  

If you're someone who cares at all about prejudice and hatred, you have every right to question or criticize these jokes.  They could function just as well without "punching down," so it's fair to ask:  "why did you aim it at ____?"  


Shock humor could be considered adolescent comedy.  It plays off the expectation of what is acceptable to say in society by delivering the exact opposite of that.  12 year olds almost universally adore whatever has the most profanity in it, simply because it's "forbidden fruit."  The idea of saying something that you're not supposed to say is funny and novel to them in the way that the "boo hoo" joke is funny and novel to the child who is still learning the nuances of language, and the illogic of allowing the same phonetic symbols to represent dramatically disparate concepts. 

The constraints of civility and etiquette are similarly hilarious to adolescents.  They're coming into their own physically and rail against the constraints imposed upon them by their parents/society.  They find the idea of civilizing the human animal to be an exercise in futility.  When it comes to teen angst, anything that pokes holes in the logic used to confine or govern their behavior is a godsend.  Some people never "age out" of nihilist humor.  They see any attempt to create meaning as inherently meaningless, and would rather just watch the world burn.  


For those who see comedy as an art, "shock humor" is just cheap and vulgar.  It has all the artistic merit of a 5 year old treating their classmates to armpit flatulence.   What yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is to free speech, telling racist jokes in a crowded theater is to comedy.  It's an easy - and potentially dangerous - way to get a rise out of people.  


People have every right to demand more from comedians.  If you spray paint a racial slur or a swastika on a wall, saying "it's art" is a weak defense.  And, if people criticize it, are you really going to reply "PC culture is ruining street art?"  No.  The message matters.  


If you choose to practice your "art" in a way that harms others, you rightfully open yourself up to criticism.  (Not that critics require permission to have an opinion of an artistic work to begin with.)

If anything, the "free speech" loving comedian can't be so sensitive as to consider themselves or their peers immune to criticism.   If you can make fun of whomever or whatever you like, your audience has that same liberty - and can take you to task for your behavior.  
That's not censorship.  It's an opinion about an opinion.  
 
 
You can still make the lazy, tasteless, offensive joke, but you're not entitled to a platform for it. 
 
 
I love comedy.  Who doesn't?  That doesn't mean I should be accepting of any trashy attempt at humor, or that I should ignore what racist comedy says about our society and those who find it amusing.  
 
I'm no more required to abide racist jokes than I am obligated to buy a black velvet painting of a sad clown because I appreciate art.  

IDK, I'm firmly in the "it's just jokes" camp

To pull an entire broadcast is excessive to me

This reeks of the whole "speaking for all of us" behavioral pattern that seems to be permeating the air

Are they trying to cater to some supposed collective black worldview by pulling a roast? Did they do us a "solid" by pulling this?

Are they saying our community doesn't understand what a roast is nor do we have the capacity to ignore or criticize bad or tasteless jokes? We got gatekeepers now?

Are we really at the point where we need to break down the sociological underpinnings of a couple of bad jokes spluttered from the mouth of some ignorant jock?

The artistic nuances of stand-up comedy? Gronk needs to be taught how to avoid certain conventional pitfalls of professional humor?

 

[stay lurkin]

IDK, I'm firmly in the "it's just jokes" camp

To pull an entire broadcast is excessive to me

This reeks of the whole "speaking for all of us" behavioral pattern that seems to be permeating the air

Are they trying to cater to some supposed collective black worldview by pulling a roast? Did they do us a "solid" by pulling this?

Are they saying our community doesn't understand what a roast is nor do we have the capacity to ignore or criticize bad or tasteless jokes? We got gatekeepers now?

Are we really at the point where we need to break down the sociological underpinnings of a couple of bad jokes spluttered from the mouth of some ignorant jock?

The artistic nuances of stand-up comedy? Gronk needs to be taught how to avoid certain conventional pitfalls of professional humor?

This is interesting man.

 

[Liquid Swords]

Every time I end up with Gronk on my fantasy team I make the playoffs even if he didn't play most of the games. Frustrating tho since you have to pay a lot for him in auction or take him in early rounds as a cost. If you get the almost fully healthy Gronk than you're lock in to the championship match.

 

[Mark Antony]

It's not economical to be not PC. The outrage machine causes advertisers to pull out, people to get fired as the fall guys, and a world wind apology tour that no one wants to do.

PC culture has caused a chilling effect in the main stream media.

Silver lining is because this isn't the UK or Germany, people can speak online hence the rise of alternative media.

Yep alternative aka racist idiots who are embarrassed about being called racists. And racist cowards who hide behind a computer screen.

#altright

Funny how this particular group gets up in arms and offended by everthing they may feel is even the tiniest slight against white people. Everyone is all for political incorectness until it hits them personally.

 

[SoleByThePound]

The BLOTUS out here tweeting like a 17 year old rapper because he got offended. This country is an embarrassment.

**** that clown and everyone who voted for him.

 

[DeadsetAce]

it was a roast for **** sake

 

[Maximus Meridius]

I think the thing people are missing is no one at the roast was bothered, the sports network was the one that pulled it. You can't be up here upset at a sports network that doesn't even allow cursing or anything offensive pulling a low brow roast. This is a waste of energy. It's a sports network.

Yea I haven't heard any actual complaints from the subject of the roast, Big Papi, either

They're usually full of off-color jokes by design,it's a roast after all

That means nothing.

I bet OJ Simpson and Tiger Woods wasn't offended by the racist jokes they heard hanging with white people too.

I hear you but dude is a proud black Dominican though,doubt he'd bite his tongue if he had a problem

Yeah and everything heard from David Ortiz he don't seem funny style.

it was a roast for **** sake

That's the same **** some white folks say when they wear them racist/stereotype customs. "It's Halloween broooo".

 

[blakep267]

it was a roast for **** sake

There's good roats and then there's lazy bad roasts. As method said, most actual skilled comedians don't say shocking things just to be short king. Lisa lampinelli isn't a good comedian not a good roaster. As her comedy is lazy. She's only their for shock and other comedians don't respect those type of comedians. Or somebody like Amy schumer and she's super lazy when it comes to her comedy and relies heavily on racial jokes a million years old. She's not respected but she also employs a lot of comedians on different things like her tv show etc so they give her a pass when she's lazy or steals material

 

[Methodical Management]

pretty sure if a comedy routine is paced like a game, da comedian isn't gonna forgo a easy layup joke for a riskier harder joke with more wonk for ethical reasons, they want that win.

If you're selling ads on network television, airing racist insults is not an easy win.  So, how can you fault the network for pulling the broadcast?  To the extent that comedians aren't required to be champions for racial equality, why should NESN be a champion for racist jokes? 

As for those playing at comedian, appealing to the lowest common denominator may be understandable, but that doesn't make it acceptable. 

In sports, rules are changed over time to maintain competitive balance and make the event fun to watch by, in many cases, taking away a "path of least resistance."  

If you take all the rules away in sports, what do you have?  

The very concept of a "game" is an unnecessary challenge. 

If a smiley face "wins art" because it's the simplest possible way to depict an emotion, an art gallery would be a terribly uninteresting place.  

"It gets the job done" isn't a compelling excuse.  Using a coffee mug as an ashtray is different than using a skull for an ashtray.  Both may work in a pinch, but why would you use a skull when less historically/emotionally significant objects are available to you?  

Let's not act like denying comedians the "right" to reinforce racist stereotypes without consequence is like asking them to eat soup with a knife.  If you're a painter, using blood isn't necessary to paint - or even to paint any given shade of red.  

IDK, I'm firmly in the "it's just jokes" camp

There's a difference between "I didn't mean it" and "therefore it can't have any negative effects and if you're upset that's your fault."  

Context matters.  Larry Wilmore referring to President Obama using a racial slur has a different context to it than the slurs directed at President Obama at, say, a Trump rally.   Making fun of racism or racists is not the same as a "racist joke."  That said, "I'm just joking" doesn't confer some sort of universal indemnity against any and all consequences associated with the "joke."  

Let's acknowledge that centuries of racist, sexist, and heterosexist jokes have not been without consequence.  

Sometimes, you can attempt a satirical joke that winds up having a negative consequence.  Writers expected audiences to laugh AT, not WITH Archie Bunker.  Dave Chappelle did not intend to for little kids everywhere to start spouting racial slurs due to his sketches.  

I have the utmost respect for Dave Chappelle and Richard Pryor for acknowledging the unintended and unanticipated consequences of some of their language/material and voluntarily changing their approach - and each did so not because of commercial considerations or even criticism, but to conform with their own standards.  

"Birth of a Nation" (the 1915 version) was hailed as a technically remarkable movie from a film-making and production standpoint.  I don't think it's fair to say that's the ONLY way in which that movie can or should be evaluated.  

"Jokes are just jokes" is on par with "movies are just movies."  It's okay to criticize them over their content, not just their form.  Read "The Devil Finds Work" by James Baldwin and tell me "he's too sensitive they're just movies."   

You can say it doesn't mean anything as an individual incident, but the collective pattern obviously does.  

Are we really at the point where we need to break down the sociological underpinnings of a couple of bad jokes spluttered from the mouth of some ignorant jock?

So we're giving racists a pass because they're dumb now?  Or are we giving dumb guys a pass for being racist? 

 

[DeadsetAce]

it was a roast for **** sake

There's good roats and then there's lazy bad roasts. As method said, most actual skilled comedians don't say shocking things just to be short king. Lisa lampinelli isn't a good comedian not a good roaster. As her comedy is lazy. She's only their for shock and other comedians don't respect those type of comedians. Or somebody like Amy schumer and she's super lazy when it comes to her comedy and relies heavily on racial jokes a million years old. She's not respected but she also employs a lot of comedians on different things like her tv show etc so they give her a pass when she's lazy or steals material

i agree 100% with this. lazy/shock value comedy is pretty meh. doesn't really do anything for me. gronk's best joke had nothing to do with race...it was the joke about Falcon. his race jokes weren't ****.

what's worse is gronk didn't even write the material. some comedian wrote it and still used lazy *** jokes.

my point was more that nothing said in the Ortiz roast is out of the ordinary for roasts or most comics you go see at a show. i think it says more about comedy as a whole in this day and age.


lastly, i don't blame NESN for pulling the broadcast. not one bit. kids shouldn't be seeing that stuff. it's an adult event. but i also don't think the material was out of line given the context of the event.

 

[frshstunna]

Don't ever get into a convo with somebody who says "pc"

 

[illmatic34]

If you get offended by anything that belong in a comedy club, you don't get stand up.

If you start removing topics because theyre offensive to someone then you cant talk about anything. There will ALWAYS be something that is said in stand up that will offend someone.

It's either everything goes, or ban stand up comedy.

Like I said. In comedy, EVERYTHING goes.

I will never understand this protection of the "old guard" of comedy.

We progress as a society but comedy cannot? Why?

**** was mad problematic back in the day and society is now cognitively aware of how these types of jokes contribute to stereotypes and perceptions of minorities.

Watch this and tell me Godfrey wasn't a huge ******* ******* to a person who may have been a rape victim or knew a person with that trauma.



We're talking about "friendly" jokes that are borderline harassment but because they're intended as comedic folks are supposed to ride with it? Nah.

 

[gentrification]

I will never understand this protection of the "old guard" of comedy.

We progress as a society but comedy cannot? Why?

**** was mad problematic back in the day and society is now cognitively aware of how these types of jokes contribute to stereotypes and perceptions of minorities.

Watch this and tell me Godfrey wasn't a huge ******* ******* to a person who may have been a rape victim or knew a person with that trauma.



We're talking about "friendly" jokes that are borderline harassment but because they're intended as comedic folks are supposed to ride with it? Nah.

Nope, we aren't progressing though. You just have people walking on eggshells now a days. I see the difference between now and 10 years ago. Its wack now. I dont need upper middle class white people dictating what's PC and what isn't.

 

[MalcolmNewton]

Minstrel shows/blackface - "its just jokes"
Yellow peril/ fu man chu characatures - "its just jokes"
Some exagerated looking black kid eating watermellon cartoon - "its just jokes"
Every old uncensored bugs bunny/tom and jerry cartoon - "it was just jokes"
Nooses out here hanging from trees - "its just a joke"
Putting on white sheets and hoods to scare newly freed blacks - "lets play some jokes on these negroes"

Its always just a joke ha hah, funny.

 

[gentrification]

The thing is minorities arent the ones complaining, we can take jokes.

 

[MalcolmNewton]

The thing is minorities arent the ones complaining, we can take jokes.

We learned to take jokes because there was't anything else we could do about it. 2nd class citizen was the butt of jokes, even when we werent allowed to be in the audience, what were we going to do?

 

[gentrification]

In the past perhaps but I don't feel like a 2nd class citizen. If someone roasts me, I'm coming back with it. This pc culture is simply white america telling us how to act and what to say. I'm not with that.

 

[ahat]

Then they get in their feelings and out come the racial slurs/"jokes".

I was on a baseball team back in the day and this white kids mom had brought sandwiches for the team between the doubleheaders the previous few weekends. His mom was fine as hell and everyone would give him a hard time about it. I asked if she was coming again to the game and he got in his feelings and tells me go fly a plane into a building.


Thats not a "joke" to me.

 

[gentrification]

Then you bust his ***. Or come back with something racial too. You got the power.

 

[ahat]

You gonna beat up everyone that says something racist to you? Thats a lot of people to fight, and you already know a lot of racists like to play the victim. Bark like a pit but really a poodle. Quick to press charges on your ***. Got a record, not tryna add to that. You ever been in a courtroom as a defendant? As a minority you pretty much guilty before proceedings even begin.


And saying something racist back? Im not stooping to their level. Im better than that.