California Supreme Court UPHOLDS gay marriage ban.... but existing same-sex marriages to stand

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by CWrite78

i feel bad for all these fools hiding behind religion.

Fools? Lol. Man when you guys get mad you sure don't hold back. You all want people to respect and see the world through you're eyes but when they don't, the name calling and etc begins.
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Exactly

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QFT. You wouldn't believe the attacks i've gotten just for saying homosexuality is a choice
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in this thread. Horrible.
You deserve them as they are ignorant and uninformed. Most credible scientific organizations will tell you it is not a choice, most studies doneindicate it is not a choice the fact that it appears in animals as well as humans further indicates it is not a choice.

Not to mention the implications that pertain to your sexuality, because naturally you have to assume your heterosexuality is a choice and tomorrow you couldhit a switch and be aroused by men.
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The fact of the matter whether you like it or not marriage has become a process that is the realm of government and not the church, whether you or your churchchooses to recognize the marriage or not is your prerogative. But when dealing with whether the government shouldrecognize by the values founded in the creation of your country you have to leave your religion out of it and look at it logically.

Peoples civil liberties are being taken away, that cannot stand.
 
another guy who (quote) replies me and then completely ignores/disregards my response. very simple question.
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but ehh why bother with this game?
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I expect to see the exact samethings from the exact same people in the next similar thread.

not a choice =/= born that way btw

ok. you guys have fun with this. peace.
 
You deserve them as they are ignorant and uninformed. Most credible scientific organizations will tell you it is not a choice, most studies done indicate it is not a choice the fact that it appears in animals as well as humans further indicates it is not a choice.

Blah blah, all the facts in this thread suggest that it IS choice. You dudes kill me. You can attack me all day, call me ignorant this and that but if I sayyour ignorant im "gay bashing"...

lol ok sir.
 
Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

You deserve them as they are ignorant and uninformed. Most credible scientific organizations will tell you it is not a choice, most studies done indicate it is not a choice the fact that it appears in animals as well as humans further indicates it is not a choice.

Blah blah, all the facts in this thread suggest that it IS choice. You dudes kill me. You can attack me all day, call me ignorant this and that but if I say your ignorant im "gay bashing"...

lol ok sir.
really?
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This is from the ACLU:
SAN FRANCISCO - Today, in a 6 to 1 decision, the California Supreme Court upheld Proposition 8, the ballot measure that eliminated the right of same sex couples to marry. In the ruling authored by Chief Justice Ronald George, the court stated "We emphasize only that among the various constitutional protections recognized in the Marriage Cases as available to same-sex couples, it is only the designation of marriage - albeit significant - that has been removed by this initiative measure." At the same time, the court unanimously ruled that the more than 18,000 marriages that took place between June 16 and November 4, 2008 continue to be fully valid and recognized by the state of California. The decision reaffirmed the court's prior holding that sexual orientation is subject to the highest level of protection under the California Constitution.

In a strongly worded dissent, Justice Carlos Moreno stated, "The rule the majority crafts today not only allows same-sex couples to be stripped of the right to marry that this court recognized in the Marriage Cases, it places at risk the state constitutional rights of all disfavored minorities. It weakens the status of our state Constitution as a bulwark of fundamental rights for minorities protected from the will of the majority."

"Today's decision is a terrible blow to same-sex couples who share the same hopes and dreams for their families as other Californians," said Shannon Minter, Legal Director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, who argued the case before the California Supreme Court in March. "But our path ahead is now clear. We will go back to the ballot box and we will win."

The National Center for Lesbian Rights, Lambda Legal, and the ACLU represent Equality California, whose members include many same-sex couples who married between June 16 and November 4, 2008, and six same-sex couples. David C. Codell and Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP, and Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP are also counsel on the case.

At a press conference this morning, all of the groups vowed to return to the polls to restore the right to marry for same-sex couples.

Elizabeth Gill, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Northern California, said, "Same-sex couples yearn for the same dignity and respect that others enjoy. The current situation in California is fundamentally unfair, and it is deeply disappointing that the court let this injustice stand. But we are committed to restoring equality at the ballot box."

The National Center for Lesbian Rights, Lambda Legal, and the ACLU filed the legal challenge on November 5, after Proposition 8 was approved by just 52 percent of the voters on Election Day.

An unprecedented 43 friend-of-the-court briefs, representing hundreds of religious organizations, civil rights groups, and labor unions, and numerous California municipal governments, bar associations, and leading legal scholars, were filed in the case, urging the court to strike down the initiative.

"Public opinion is moving in the direction of fairness and equality, and it is only a matter of time until the freedom to marry will again be secure for all Californians," said Jennifer C. Pizer, Marriage Project Director for Lambda Legal. "Achieving equality always requires struggle, but over time people come to accept that equal treatment and equal protection of the laws is the best way to protect the rights of all."

"By upholding Prop. 8, the court has moved our state backward and has put all Californians at risk of losing fundamental rights at each and every election. Our Constitution must ensure that all Californians are treated equally by our government," said Geoff Kors, Executive Director of Equality California. "Despite this injustice, we are prepared to return to the ballot box together with our allies to restore the freedom to marry. As more and more states across the nation allow same-sex couples to marry, and as we continue our efforts to win the hearts and minds of Californians through real conversations in homes, in neighborhoods, online and on the air, we are confident that same-sex couples will soon enjoy the honor, dignity and protections that only marriage provides."

"it places at risk the state constitutional rights of all disfavored minorities. It weakens the status of our stateConstitution as a bulwark of fundamental rights for minorities protected from the will of the majority."

hmmm..."disfavored minorities" and "protection from the will of the majority." When you cut through everything and see the issue as amatter of fairness and equal opportunity you certainly realize how disgusting all of the people in favor of such repression and uses of
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are!
 
^ At this point. No one cares. You were put on this earth with the same choices as everyone else. Im not going to feel sorry for you if you choose to follow adifferent path, nor will I look at you as less of a human. But your attitude that "we" owe you something is hillarious. No one feels sorry for you,nor will we except your excuse of "we were born this way". You made your choice. Thats that.


Bottom line. Ya aint gettin married in Cali. Deal wit it.

/Thread.



P.S. Please stop crying its really
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Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

^ At this point. No one cares. You were put on this earth with the same choices as everyone else. Im not going to feel sorry for you if you choose to follow a different path, nor will I look at you as less of a human. But your attitude that "we" owe you something is hillarious. No one feels sorry for you, nor will we except your excuse of "we were born this way". You made your choice. Thats that.


Bottom line. Ya aint gettin married in Cali. Deal wit it.

/Thread.



P.S. Please stop crying its really
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'No one feels sorry for you'? You really make it easy to understand where your moronic views come from.


'Please stop crying its really
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'


'nor will I look at you as less of a human'
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yeah keep tellingyourself that. whatever makes your hate easier for you to digest.
 
Alot of you are so ignorant to the US Constitution. Alot of you I guess missed the 10th Amendment. The US Constitution is not a "living, breathing, changeas we go" document. No expiration date.

The Constitution was written on Natural Law (see Cicero and John Locke), not necessarily on the bible. They were against what they though were immoral i.e.Incest, Polygamy, ect.

Personally, I don't care if they get married or not it doesn't affect me. Marriage isn't a Federal thing, nor should it be. There is not a"National Marriage License", it is reserved to the States and the people.




Like abortion, gay marriage should be handled by the States, because they give out the licenses and because the Constitution says that the PEOPLE are the onesreally in power, they should be the ones to vote on it.



You guys are so way off talking about homosexuality being a "gene" or a "choice", who cares? That argument is tired and it doesn't meananything.



What I don't like is the activists calling people "bigots" just because they are against marriage of gays. Being violent and smearing people justbecause they dont agree is not helping their cause by no means considering that they are in the MINORITY.
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by LifeLessons

why does it matter if someone chooses to be gay or is born gay?
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i could care less how they became gay......just don't let them fools get married
why are you so against it?


part of it has to do w/ religion and then i think man/man women/women can't reproduce anything....so why should they get married....its just unnatural eventhough i feel like some people can't help being and i feel like some are gay because of their upbringing.....i have no issue w/ gays ...let them bepartners and give them the benefits of being married but don't call it marriage.....lol....just let them fill out papers and keep it moving
 
Originally Posted by Fede DPT


You guys are so way off talking about homosexuality being a "gene" or a "choice", who cares? That argument is tired and it doesn't mean anything.
What do you mean it doesn't mean anything? Obviously it does. If tomorrow there was some breakthrough that proved that homosexualityisn't a choice, how would the discrimination be justified or rationalized?
 
Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

^ At this point. No one cares. You were put on this earth with the same choices as everyone else. Im not going to feel sorry for you if you choose to follow a different path, nor will I look at you as less of a human. But your attitude that "we" owe you something is hillarious. No one feels sorry for you, nor will we except your excuse of "we were born this way". You made your choice. Thats that.


Bottom line. Ya aint gettin married in Cali. Deal wit it.

/Thread.



P.S. Please stop crying its really
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'No one feels sorry for you'? You really make it easy to understand where your moronic views come from.


'Please stop crying its really
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'


'nor will I look at you as less of a human'
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yeah keep telling yourself that. whatever makes your hate easier for you to digest.


You seem to enjoy attacking me? You homosexual? Just curious... Is that why your so mad? You want my approval or something? What is your point, im a"moron" or "stupid" or im an "idiot" (yes you've said all of those things) is that making you feel better about yourself? Imsorry if your so insecure about your own sexuality and how others view you, your unable to speak without attacking. Im sorry you think everyone who believeshomosexuals "MADE THE CHOICE" to be homosexual, are "homophobic". Im sorry we don't fit into your world.

That make you feel better?
Hm?
Gonna stop crying now?
Hm?
You gonna be ok?
Hm?

What do you mean it doesn't mean anything? Obviously it does. If tomorrow there was some breakthrough that proved that homosexuality isn't a choice, how would the discrimination be justified or rationalized?
Yea because we are ALL against you. The homosexuals.
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You guys kill me.
 
Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

^ At this point. No one cares. You were put on this earth with the same choices as everyone else. Im not going to feel sorry for you if you choose to follow a different path, nor will I look at you as less of a human. But your attitude that "we" owe you something is hillarious. No one feels sorry for you, nor will we except your excuse of "we were born this way". You made your choice. Thats that.


Bottom line. Ya aint gettin married in Cali. Deal wit it.

/Thread.



P.S. Please stop crying its really
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'No one feels sorry for you'? You really make it easy to understand where your moronic views come from.


'Please stop crying its really
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'


'nor will I look at you as less of a human'
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yeah keep telling yourself that. whatever makes your hate easier for you to digest.


You seem to enjoy attacking me? You homosexual? Just curious... Is that why your so mad? You want my approval or something? What is your point, im a "moron" or "stupid" or im an "idiot" (yes you've said all of those things) is that making you feel better about yourself? Im sorry if your so insecure about your own sexuality and how others view you, your unable to speak without attacking. Im sorry you think everyone who believes homosexuals "MADE THE CHOICE" to be homosexual, are "homophobic". Im sorry we don't fit into your world.

That make you feel better?
Hm?
Gonna stop crying now?
Hm?
You gonna be ok?
Hm?

What do you mean it doesn't mean anything? Obviously it does. If tomorrow there was some breakthrough that proved that homosexuality isn't a choice, how would the discrimination be justified or rationalized?
Yea because we are ALL against you. The homosexuals.
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You guys kill me.
No dude. Sorry. Straight here. I guess to understand discrimination you have to be the one being discriminated against? I am against racism, doesthat make me black? I am for women's rights, does that make me a woman? You know, if you want to keep from being called things like 'stupid' or'idiotic' try formulating a point. Try not resulting to 'you guys kill me.' Try to sound intelligent. Don't use 'except' when youmean 'accept.' Don't use 'aint.' If you don't want to be called a moron, don't be a moron. It's easy. If someone is calledsmelly, the best way for them to remedy that is to not stink.

Pointing out that stuff about you doesn't make me feel better about myself. It's just pointing out the obvious. Your mind is very closed. You can fixthat if you 'except' it.
 
Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by Fede DPT


You guys are so way off talking about homosexuality being a "gene" or a "choice", who cares? That argument is tired and it doesn't mean anything.
What do you mean it doesn't mean anything? Obviously it does. If tomorrow there was some breakthrough that proved that homosexuality isn't a choice, how would the discrimination be justified or rationalized?


It shouldn't mean anything, its not a valid argument because it will never be proven. You will always have biased scientists who claim it is a gene andhave scientists that claim it isn't a gene. The argument is irrelevant.
 
No dude. Sorry. Straight here. I guess to understand discrimination you have to be the one being discriminated against? I am against racism, does that make me black? I am for women's rights, does that make me a woman? You know, if you want to keep from being called things like 'stupid' or 'idiotic' try formulating a point. Try not resulting to 'you guys kill me.' Try to sound intelligent. Don't use 'except' when you mean 'accept.' Don't use 'aint.' If you don't want to be called a moron, don't be a moron. It's easy. If someone is called smelly, the best way for them to remedy that is to not stink.

Pointing out that stuff about you doesn't make me feel better about myself. It's just pointing out the obvious. Your mind is very closed. You can fix that if you 'except' it.
I could careless about what you call me. No matter how much I "sound" (although im typing) 'stupid' 'dumb' or like an'idiot' to you, you've made yourself look more foolish than anyone. You are incapable of sustaining a point without the use of insults, thus your"facts" are nothing more than emotion filled responces that generate little to no merit. Wait...to make it easier for you, you have no idea how to"debate". Im sorry kid.

But none of that matters, in the end you lose anyway. k?

If my grammer is to "bad" for you. Im sorry, im at work - going on about my life without crying and looking for hand outs.
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so why should they get married
so they can
1. create a closer bond and forge a stronger relationship between the two of each other
2. show the world that they are united

regardless of the origins or marriage.. the fact is that marriage has become an almost universally recognized as a bonding between two people.
a civil union just doesn't cut it.

why should they be denied that opportunity to feel that type closeness?
 
Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

so why should they get married
so they can
1. create a closer bond and forge a stronger relationship between the two of each other
2. show the world that they are united

regardless of the origins or marriage.. the fact is that marriage has become an almost universally recognized as a bonding between two people.
a civil union just doesn't cut it.

why should they be denied that opportunity to feel that type closeness?


Pardon my ignorance, because I'm not married. But, how does marriage forge #1 and #2 together (I'm talking generally, not specifically same-sexmarriage). What does it matter to "show the world"? Who cares who's married who?


In defense of Homosexuals, they can make a claim that they arent being able to "pursue happiness" by not being able to have their marriagerecognized.



What is is ironic about the situation is that homosexuals can get married by a Priest, Rabbi, Pastor, ect if they want, but just because it isn'trecognized by the State it a problem? It all boils down to taxes, that's all it is.
 
Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

so why should they get married
so they can
1. create a closer bond and forge a stronger relationship between the two of each other
2. show the world that they are united

regardless of the origins or marriage.. the fact is that marriage has become an almost universally recognized as a bonding between two people.
a civil union just doesn't cut it.

why should they be denied that opportunity to feel that type closeness?


Pardon my ignorance, because I'm not married. But, how does marriage forge #1 and #2 together (I'm talking generally, not specifically same-sex marriage).


I honestly don't know.. as I'm not married myself...but see an earlier reply in this thread
http://niketalk.yuku.com/...ting-.html#reply-5801208
.I asked a friend of mine who had gotten married to a long-time and live in GF(also one of my friends)...."So, do you feel different being married?"
His reply "It's pretty much the same...although.. I do feel a lot closer to my wife, and feel as though our relationship is a lot stronger."

Who is anybody to deny the opportunity of that feeling?...a civil union doesn't afford that.
there's something unwritten about being married and the strength of that union
dudes here will say... "I'll go after a dude's girl... but never someone's wife."

a marriage is a bond that most people respect and honor.

What does it matter to "show the world"? Who cares who's married who?
I knew that would be a retort..

1. it's easy for you to say, since you have the ability to do so.
2. doesn't matter that you don't care..the fact is that people do care.. and straight couples get married for this reason also. They send weddingannouncements...but their wedding and engagements in the newspaper, they set up websites, etc etc.


What is is ironic about the situation is that homosexuals can get married by a Priest, Rabbi, Pastor, ect if they want, but just because it isn't recognized by the State it a problem? It all boils down to taxes, that's all it is.
yeah....b/c a second class marriage is something that people should be excited over.
 
Many states do not allow a gay person's partner to make medical decisions in an emergency, even if they've been together for 40 years.

Families that don't approve of their offspring's lifestyle can go so far as to bar their partner from the hospital room.

If a person's partner is arrested, they can be FORCED to testify against them.

This is more than people trying to force their lifestyles down someone elses throat. This is other people's lifestyles being forced down THEIR throats.

.......And for those of you saying it's pure choice, how about you try to get aroused by a member of your same sex. If its a choice, should be easypeasy!!!
 
Dirtylicious wrote:

a marriage is a bond that most people respect and honor.




I seriously disagree with this statement...

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]http://niketalk.yuku.com/reply/5790280#reply-5790280[/color]
The main argument people use in support of the "gay-marriage" ban is the idea that ---> Marriage a sacred pact between a man and a woman.

Personally, I think that argument is 100% grade-A bull crap, especially when you realize that this is AMERICA, the United States of America--where (heterosexual) divorce rates fluctuate in the high 50%, and a man and woman can get married in the span of 5 minutes, by a guy dressed in an elvis costume, while sitting in their car, in a place rightly known as "sin-city". The fact that a heterosexual couple can get married in such a manner, proves that marriage is not as SACRED, in this country, as people would like to argue. In this sense, I believe that homosexual couples have every right to marriage as their heterosexual counterparts.

...And this is why I think homosexual couples have every right to marriage as heterosexual couples in America.

Though some hetero-couples take marriage seriously, for the most part, in this country, marriage is nothing but a game to be played until one gets bored.Don't believe me, check the divorce rates...

Simply stated, in this country, marriage is a bond that is neither respected nor honored by most, and given these circumstances, I think it is unfair thathomosexuals are denied the right; especially when you realize that one of the main arguments used by opponents of gay marriage is the notion that marriage is a"sacred" pact/entity...
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..."not in America it aint"

...
 
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