California Supreme Court UPHOLDS gay marriage ban.... but existing same-sex marriages to stand

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by BTonNT

Why is it ridiculous to judge someone on how they view certain civil rights? If someone is a racist or an ageist is it 'utterly ridiculous' to judge them because of their messed up views?

How do you view the discrimination against incestual couples who wish to marry?

The health risks that can occur from that incestuous couple having a child is the reason it's illegal.


thats not necessary true. inbreeding just lowers the gene pool.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Originally Posted by RKO2004


Maybe its YOU who keep us apart. You and you're beliefs. Maybe? No of course not because you are blameless because you view the world like everyone else. I have embraced my fellow man. I will not lay down my beliefs for my fellow man. I'll die before that happens. Why don't you come to my side of life since you want unity so bad. You point the finger so well but I bet you never said "Self. Maybe I should go to their way of life.".

The dream of "unity" on this planet will be the downfall of many.

Why do your beliefs separate us? Why can't one man's different way of life be inspiring, thought-provoking and respected? Why can'tyou accept your fellow for who they are, or does your belief system challenge difference and require obedience to one golden standard?

I don't pretend to know everything, but what I am certain of is that when I see a darker shade of skin, hear a tongue I don't understand, bear witnessto a philosophy completely unlike my own, there is absolutely NO separation, NO inherent difference that will convince me that that person is not the same asme, in their heart.

You claim unity would be the 'downfall of many,' but it is piousness to destructive social behaviors that already sink us into darkness.

 

[btonnt]

so should the couples who are both consenting adults be punished due to the other relationships you rightfully? disagree with?

since we are having a philosophical debate on morality and who has the right to determine what, I think it's fair to consider the full range ofdiscriminations we accept in society. Especially since we're so quick and remorseless in calling anyone who doesnt follow what we do"ignorant"...


source for the stat of 9 out of 10 too please?


and health risks?

how about couplings that can easily be determined to be at high risks for genetic diseases in their children? Sickle-cell anemia for example. Legality isbased on predetermined genetic health of the children?

 

[Lizakers]

I can't believe there are still people who believe it's a CHOICE to be gay

wow

but what separates a race from a sexual orientation is that you cannot hide your race in order to avoid discrimination and racism.

but you can easily hide your gayness.

a black man walking down the street is a black man

a white gay man walkind down the street is a white man


stop comparing race to sexual orientation

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Th3RealF0lkBlu3s

Originally Posted by RKO2004


Maybe its YOU who keep us apart. You and you're beliefs. Maybe? No of course not because you are blameless because you view the world like everyone else. I have embraced my fellow man. I will not lay down my beliefs for my fellow man. I'll die before that happens. Why don't you come to my side of life since you want unity so bad. You point the finger so well but I bet you never said "Self. Maybe I should go to their way of life.".

The dream of "unity" on this planet will be the downfall of many.

Why do your beliefs separate us? Why can't one man's different way of life be inspiring, thought-provoking and respected? Why can't you accept your fellow for who they are, or does your belief system challenge difference and require obedience to one golden standard?

I don't pretend to know everything, but what I am certain of is that when I see a darker shade of skin, hear a tongue I don't understand, bear witness to a philosophy completely unlike my own, there is absolutely NO separation, NO inherent difference that will convince me that that person is not the same as me, in their heart.

You claim unity would be the 'downfall of many,' but it is piousness to destructive social behaviors that already sink us into darkness.

Great words poet. Our beliefs, the worlds beliefs are all different. Thats what separates us. I could say you're lack of belief in Godseparates us. I will NOT lay down my beliefs. I wont force them into you're life or others but I will not lay down just to play a role of White Knight. Notto keep using The Dark Knight but this world does not need people who feed false truths just to please everyone. It needs people who will keep it 100% nomatter what.You can make me out to be a bigot, racist or whatever you want. That's fine. Add sinner to that list too.

Don't you find the "unity" on earth dream to be a little too perfect? Like maybe too good too be true?

 

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by BTonNT

so should the couples who are both consenting adults be punished due to the other relationships you rightfully? disagree with?

since we are having a philosophical debate on morality and who has the right to determine what, I think it's fair to consider the full range of discriminations we accept in society. Especially since we're so quick and remorseless in calling anyone who doesnt follow what we do "ignorant"...


source for the stat of 9 out of 10 too please?


and health risks?

how about couplings that can easily be determined to be at high risks for genetic diseases in their children? Sickle-cell anemia for example. Legality is based on predetermined genetic health of the children?

you can check wikipedia just like i did. although it doesnt say 9/10, but the most common is father/daughter incest, usually from child sexualabuse.

I see nothing wrong with 1st cousins marrying each other. Something I wouldn't do, but hey, let others do them.
but besides that, the more important thing people are missing out is the benefits from marriage.

 

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

I can't believe there are still people who believe it's a CHOICE to be gay

wow

but what separates a race from a sexual orientation is that you cannot hide your race in order to avoid discrimination and racism.

but you can easily hide your gayness.

a black man walking down the street is a black man

a white gay man walkind down the street is a white man


stop comparing race to sexual orientation

nobody did, that would be stupid....

 

[btonnt]

you can check wikipedia just like i did. although it doesnt say 9/10, but the most common is father/daughter incest, usually from child sexual abuse.

I see nothing wrong with 1st cousins marrying each other. Something I wouldn't do, but hey, let others do them.
but besides that, the more important thing people are missing out is the benefits from marriage.

I did. Would you show me where it says that? I think it says father-daughter incest is the most common type of incest reported in childabuse, not that it's the most common type of incest.

So you would only allow first cousins to marry? You'd discriminate against any other immeidiate family members who consentually desired to marry.

hmm...that's interesting. So something about your beliefs constitutes or permits a discriminatory application in your judgements (very interesting) so isthis belief derived from an innate sense and understanding or social norms and taboos or what?

And why arent you adamantly arguing for the civil rights violations against those first-cousin couples? where are their protests? or have you not been taughtto defend them? yet?

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by Th3RealF0lkBlu3s

Originally Posted by RKO2004


Maybe its YOU who keep us apart. You and you're beliefs. Maybe? No of course not because you are blameless because you view the world like everyone else. I have embraced my fellow man. I will not lay down my beliefs for my fellow man. I'll die before that happens. Why don't you come to my side of life since you want unity so bad. You point the finger so well but I bet you never said "Self. Maybe I should go to their way of life.".

The dream of "unity" on this planet will be the downfall of many.

Why do your beliefs separate us? Why can't one man's different way of life be inspiring, thought-provoking and respected? Why can't you accept your fellow for who they are, or does your belief system challenge difference and require obedience to one golden standard?

I don't pretend to know everything, but what I am certain of is that when I see a darker shade of skin, hear a tongue I don't understand, bear witness to a philosophy completely unlike my own, there is absolutely NO separation, NO inherent difference that will convince me that that person is not the same as me, in their heart.

You claim unity would be the 'downfall of many,' but it is piousness to destructive social behaviors that already sink us into darkness.

Great words poet. Our beliefs, the worlds beliefs are all different. Thats what separates us. I could say you're lack of belief in God separates us. I will NOT lay down my beliefs. I wont force them into you're life or others but I will not lay down just to play a role of White Knight. Not to keep using The Dark Knight but this world does not need people who feed false truths just to please everyone. It needs people who will keep it 100% no matter what.You can make me out to be a bigot, racist or whatever you want. That's fine. Add sinner to that list too.

Don't you find the "unity" on earth dream to be a little too perfect? Like maybe too good too be true?

I'll answer this carefully, because I'm not looking to fight or argue, only for understanding.

Our beliefs, the worlds beliefs are all different. Thats what separates us. - I agree, and differences are beautiful.They define us and make us special. The wings of butterflies or the petals of flowers would not be something to admire if they were all alike, would they? Weought to see ourselves in the same manner, outwardly different but inherently the same.

I could say you're lack of belief in God separates us. I will NOT lay down my beliefs. - My belief in God issomething that remains to be determined. I am a firm believer in freedom of body and mind; if the Christian God (forgive me for assuming this is who you mean.If it is not, please forgive me) is one that can afford me those qualities, then perhaps I can find a path towards it.

I say never lay down your beliefs, for if you believe in them strongly enough they become a part of you, instead of you being a part of them. My hope is thatbelief does not make an offered hand into a jaundiced fist, one that strikes rather than helps.

I wont force them into you're life or others but I will not lay down just to play a role of White Knight. - Iappreciate the sincerity in not wanting to force your opinions on others, but understand that ignorance of the other side does not save the day. If you feelthat you need to give up what is a part of you in order to understand others, don't. There is a way to explore without abandoning faith, it simply requireshonest curiosity and respect.

Forgive me for not acknowledging the White Knight part, I honestly have no clue what you mean by that.

Not to keep using The Dark Knight but this world does not need people who feed false truths just to please everyone. -(Ooh, White Knight = movie Dark Knight? Got it!) A false truth is the theft of trust. I assume you mean that unity and respect for everyone is a false truth; Iwould submit that that notion is the simple way out of finding common ground. It is self-defeating and requires no courage, only willful ignorance of the worldbeyond your immediate concerns.

It needs people who will keep it 100% no matter what. - I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by 100%. Do youmean the world needs people who are not disillusioned by 'false truths' and understand life for what it is? If so, then I'll make this claim: eachman kills the thing he loves (thank you, Oscar Wilde!). Perhaps it's not that there are men born with the ability to distinguish reality from fiction, butthere are men who defeat aspirations of a better world, who seek to simply keep things as they are, for if they don't it could possibly become worse. Thedeaths of our dreams are our undoing.

You can make me out to be a bigot, racist or whatever you want. That's fine. Add sinner to that list too. - Iwon't do that. If you believe in a positive way of being, then we are without quarrel. I only ask that a heart be kept open for world. When we closeourselves to the unknown, we seal doors that can lead us to unimaginable places.

Don't you find the "unity" on earth dream to be a little too perfect? Like maybe too good too be true? -If humanity can dream of a better tomorrow, then it owes itself the opportunity to realize such dreams.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by CWrite78

i feel bad for all these fools hiding behind religion.

Fools? Lol. Man when you guys get mad you sure don't hold back. You all want people to respect and see the world through you're eyes but when they don't, the name calling and etc begins.

Exactly

 

[ericberry14]

this is for any & all Christians... but specificallyRKO

my question about christianity i've been wondering for a while is...

the bible says somewhere that Only good christian people go to heaven... so what happens to all of the good Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus... dothey all just go to hell simply because they believed a bit different from you... are all of the good deeds they did in life forsaken simply becaues of a fewreligious differences? Do they seriously go to hell just because they felt Jesus was not the Son of God, but simply another prophet?

How did you come to terms with that personally? I've been thinking about that & its one of the main reasons i could never rock with Christianity as myreligion... i cant even put into words how disappointed/angered i am about that...

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Th3RealF0lkBlu3s

Our beliefs, the worlds beliefs are all different. Thats what separates us. - I agree, and differences are beautiful. They define us and make us special. The wings of butterflies or the petals of flowers would not be something to admire if they were all alike, would they? We ought to see ourselves in the same manner, outwardly different but inherently the same.
The differences that define us are special and unique. But not all of our differences are good.

I could say you're lack of belief in God separates us. I will NOT lay down my beliefs. - My belief in God is something that remains to be determined. I am a firm believer in freedom of body and mind; if the Christian God (forgive me for assuming this is who you mean. If it is not, please forgive me) is one that can afford me those qualities, then perhaps I can find a path towards it.
Yet to be determined? Looking for visual proof?

We all have complete freedom. Body/Mind, you name it we got it. But we will have to answer for our chosen freedoms one day. Of course I can warn people (whichI have) or try to dictate their life but what good will it do in the end? Me voting on this matter would take away the free will of others. Before I would havevoted on this matter but as time goes on, I just learned to let go and let people answer for themselves (Thanks Ska

). I still don't agree that its right though.

Not to keep using The Dark Knight but this world does not need people who feed false truths just to please everyone. - (Ooh, White Knight = movie Dark Knight? Got it!) A false truth is the theft of trust. I assume you mean that unity and respect for everyone is a false truth; I would submit that that notion is the simple way out of finding common ground. It is self-defeating and requires no courage, only willful ignorance of the world beyond your immediate concerns.
Basically what I'm saying is, lets say I told you that I or any man could deliver peace? I'd be a liar and someone who speaks falsetruths. I don't know if you read the bible or other religious books but in the bible it states to beware of the one who preaches about bringing peace. Longstory short, the idea of peace will be used as a tool of deception.

It needs people who will keep it 100% no matter what. - I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by 100%. Do you mean the world needs people who are not disillusioned by 'false truths' and understand life for what it is? If so, then I'll make this claim: each man kills the thing he loves (thank you, Oscar Wilde!). Perhaps it's not that there are men born with the ability to distinguish reality from fiction, but there are men who defeat aspirations of a better world, who seek to simply keep things as they are, for if they don't it could possibly become worse. The deaths of our dreams are our undoing.
Yes we need more people who aren't blinded by hopes and dreams. Myself and others have posted bible scripture countless of times that explainsor ties in to whats going on now. Of course they call B.S. but to me that is an act of blindness. Its funny how people always want "us" to see theworld through their eyes but clown us and our views like their views are actually better. I'm sure you've seen them around. Our undoing is ourcontinuance separating ourselves from our root.

Don't you find the "unity" on earth dream to be a little too perfect? Like maybe too good too be true? - If humanity can dream of a better tomorrow, then it owes itself the opportunity to realize such dreams.
I'm not saying peace is out of the question, its just not going to happen in this world. The key reason being its too easy to use"peace" to manipulate people. I mean ANYONE can come and preach peace.

All of this goes deeper than the surfaces debates and arguments we're having. Its hard to get beneath the surface because so many people hate our views soit isn't possible.

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

this is for any & all Christians... but specifically RKO

my question about christianity i've been wondering for a while is...

the bible says somewhere that Only good christian people go to heaven... so what happens to all of the good Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus... do they all just go to hell simply because they believed a bit different from you... are all of the good deeds they did in life forsaken simply becaues of a few religious differences? Do they seriously go to hell just because they felt Jesus was not the Son of God, but simply another prophet?

No

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by cartune

Originally Posted by ericberry14

this is for any & all Christians... but specifically RKO

my question about christianity i've been wondering for a while is...

the bible says somewhere that Only good christian people go to heaven... so what happens to all of the good Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus... do they all just go to hell simply because they believed a bit different from you... are all of the good deeds they did in life forsaken simply becaues of a few religious differences? Do they seriously go to hell just because they felt Jesus was not the Son of God, but simply another prophet?

No

well where do they go? What happens to them?

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by cartune

Originally Posted by ericberry14

this is for any & all Christians... but specifically RKO

my question about christianity i've been wondering for a while is...

the bible says somewhere that Only good christian people go to heaven... so what happens to all of the good Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus... do they all just go to hell simply because they believed a bit different from you... are all of the good deeds they did in life forsaken simply becaues of a few religious differences? Do they seriously go to hell just because they felt Jesus was not the Son of God, but simply another prophet?

No

well where do they go? What happens to them?

I dont know Im not God.

 

[mytmouse76]

they go to hellvean...

 

[kb8sandiego]

the bible says somewhere that Only good christian people go to heaven.
You tell us. Somewhere doesn't really help.

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

they go to hellvean...

... just stop

reply to me in the other thread....

 

[mytmouse76]

that was a serious answer my friend gave in bible study back in HS...we laughed at that for weeks...

i replied...

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

that was a serious answer my friend gave in bible study back in HS...we laughed at that for weeks...

i replied...

i would never let them live that down... Here is how every future convo would go after they gave that answer

Stupid Friend: so where we goin tonite
Me: Hellvean

Stupid Friend:

 

[Jordan8]

How does everything on NT turn into a religion thread?

Yall insecure with your beliefs or nonbeliefs?

 

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

that was a serious answer my friend gave in bible study back in HS...we laughed at that for weeks...

i replied...

i would never let them live that down... Here is how every future convo would go after they gave that answer

Stupid Friend: so where we goin tonite
Me: Hellvean

Stupid Friend:

we bring it up every now and then...he's married and in the military now...

haven't seen him in YEARS...

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by kix4kix

MARRIAGE IS A RELIGIOUS TERM. IF IT IS AGAINST RELIGION FOR GAYS TO MARRY THAN SO BE IT.

ok... but the constitution is clearly against the interaction of the church and state.

so then, by that logic, shouldn't all states cease to recognize marriages, nationwide? why are certain benefits conferred to a church institution, when the government is very clearly against supporting any religion?

DING DING DING!

 

[jetpacunlimited]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by CWrite78

i feel bad for all these fools hiding behind religion.

Fools? Lol. Man when you guys get mad you sure don't hold back. You all want people to respect and see the world through you're eyes but when they don't, the name calling and etc begins.

Exactly

QFT. You wouldn't believe the attacks i've gotten just for saying homosexuality is a choice

in this thread. Horrible.

 

[wickednikes]

damn the debate rages on...thought this thread died out last night