Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[Present]

The exchange was about comparing social movements for Justice

You wanted to push back on gry60 point by using James Baldwin's words

I am just pointing out that given his entire body of work, not just one video, Baldwin views probably align more with what gry60 said than what you did

No one is putting any words in Baldwin's mouth. Spare me

You right.

My bad.

Taking words out of James Baldwin's mouth.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You right.

My bad.

Taking words out of James Baldwin's mouth.

Apology accepted

Good talk

 

[AEA18]

Conversation with Trans Comedian PinkFoxx

 

[IATT]

 

[Mark Antony]

The arena fanfare is so weird, mfer's cheering at everything.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

one of the weakest versions of the argument against cancel cultures existence..

"Broadly popular, famous and successful comedian struggles to find major distribution for a film,
because he transgressed against the politics of mostly rich white cultural elites"

is not a compelling argument against the existence of cancel culture.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Famb, do you ever accept people's arguments as they state them

Or is this a joke too?

 

[RustyShackleford]

It is interesting how Dave can smugly say on stage if this is what being canceled feels like, he loves it

Yet when he is facing some repercussions of said "canceling", he seems to not be enjoying it all that much

Like I said before, this thing to Dave is about his hurt feelings. I don't think he is taking some principled stand beyond wanting to get his way

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Famb, do you ever accept people's arguments as they state them

Or is this a joke too?

the "look this person claims they are being canceled but they have xyz" argument

obscures the obvious reality; having enough power to blunt the effects of cancellation doesn't mean it isn't real.
and it means that anyone less powerful than you should be even more fearful.

which in daves case is 99.9% of comedians.

 

[IATT]

Roseanne has actually been canceled, anyone know where she’s touring?

 

[RustyShackleford]

the "look this person claims they are being canceled but they have xyz" argument

obscures the obvious reality; having enough power to blunt the effects of cancellation doesn't mean it isn't real.
and it means that anyone less powerful than you should be even more fearful.

which in daves case is 99.9% of comedians.

When Dave compares "canceling" someone to taking away their livelihood, I think it is fair game to point that "canceling" often doesn't reach the level the people that decry cancel culture claim.

But what, I'm not supposed to be uber concerned not because of what is happening to Dave (who is a cultural elite), but the other comedians that won't be able to go mainstream by using trans people as a punchline?

Again, I have my issues with left-wing mob mentality going too far. This just isn't one of the instances, for Dave, or the 99.9% or artist, sorry comedians cut off from a specific bag

 

[p0tat0 5alad]

Twitter may not be so make believe after all

 

[osh kosh bosh]

When Dave compares "canceling" someone to taking away their livelihood, I think it is fair game to point that "canceling" often doesn't reach the level the people that decry cancel culture claim.

it doesn't need to.
again yes you can't take away the most famous comedians in Americas livelihood.

but every other comedian or artist on the planet has to constantly be calculating and self editing.
and I can promise you that mindset does not produce good art. if you don't care about that, that's cool. but I do.

But what, I'm not supposed to be uber concerned not because of what is happening to Dave (who is a cultural elite), but the other comedians that won't be able to go mainstream by using trans people as a punchline?

"using trans people as a punchline?"

In the Closer Dave basically agrees with 99% of what trans activist while applying the same brand of comedy he has applied to every topic and minority group under the sun,
This is using trans people as a punchline?
(Dave Chappelle does not have elite cultural politics, hence the current drama surrounding him)


imo if it's unacceptable, than Dave has always been unacceptable.
and IMO dave's comedy for all it's flaws has been on net a positive contribution to the art of stand up comedy

and so it does bother me that a similarly talented and provocative comedian couldn't rise in todays speech climate.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Twitter may not be so make believe after all

Its probably only a make believe place for people who want to spread their moral righteousness and elitism while judging others

With us or against us

 

[RustyShackleford]

it doesn't need to.
again yes you can't take away the most famous comedians in Americas livelihood.

but every other comedian or artist on the planet has to constantly be calculating and self editing.
and I can promise you that mindset does not produce good art. if you don't care about that, that's cool. but I do.

Do you.

I simply don't care to the degree you do

I don't think a free for is a mandatory condition to have good "art"

"using trans people as a punchline?"


In the Closer Dave basically agrees with 99% of what trans activist while applying the same brand of comedy he has applied to every topic and minority group under the sun,
This is using trans people as a punchline?
(Dave Chappelle does not have elite cultural politics, hence the current drama surrounding him)

Dave compares being trans to blackface, and compares the genitalia of some trans women to beyond meat. Trans activist outchea saying stuff like this too? Damn, didn't know this

Dude, you want to use the positive things Dave said to dismiss the offensive things he said. I simply can't rock with that argument. Yes he said some good things, but he said some clearly offensive things regarding them too

Around 99% of Bill Maher says probably agrees with probably what black activists think too. She still says dumb **** too.

Dave definitely used trans people as a part of the punchline a point in the special as well

This whole elite politics thing you keep bringing out is unconvincing to me. Just seems like a brand of leftist politics I really don't rock with. It muddles the dynamics at play here in a way that is convenient for your argument, Dave, and his defenders.

BTW, would I be a cultural elite too? I can't tell

Also, does Dave politics on race seem to closely align with the views of the cultural elite. So is that an issue? Or does the views of the cultural elite shrink to exclude Dave on that subject?

imo if it's unacceptable, than Dave has always been unacceptable.
and IMO dave's comedy for all it's flaws has been on net a positive contribution to the art of stand up comedy

and so it does bother me that a similarly talented and provocative comedian couldn't rise in todays speech climate.

Sure Dave comedy as been a net positive to stand-up, I would agree, but two things

a) The contributions to stand-up are not gonna be the prime consideration to a lot of people. I am not that sympathetic to the protect art over everything argument.

b) You are making the judgment on aggregate. Weighing the good against whatever bad (and there definitely probably been some bad given Dave's own admission regarding white people laughing at the stereotypes on the Chapelle Show). Other people might not think on aggregate the good outweighs the bad. Someone could take Dave's career into consideration and think it is a net negative

So people can take issue with certain things he says and agree with others.

Society speech codes change from generation to generation. Comedians have never enjoyed blanket impunity when violating them. Consumer taste changes, the market changes. When it comes to reaching mainstream success, these are all the things comedians (service providers) in a market have to adapt to.

I get the small margin of error makes life harder for some comedians, but again, this phenomenon has been happening for generations. I feel the talented ones will figure it out in some way

 

[RustyShackleford]

If we are trying to cancel comedians for offensive jokes toward marginalized groups

Could someone please find a way to get the Hodge Twins out the paint

My homeboy went to a show like 6 years ago and loved it, mans didn't know about them going full MAGA, I warned dude but he didn't want to listen.

He went to see them again after the turn.

Dude said when he pulled up to the venue and saw the parking lot filled with Ford F-150s, he should have known that was a red flag

 

[1995]

I don't really feel bad that young comics might be missing out on the opportunity to use marginalized people for material

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don't really feel bad that young comics might be missing out on the opportunity to use marginalized people for material

I think one of the assumptions I disagree with is that purging certain jokes about trans people from the menu of subject comedians can talk about will cause some sort of irreparable harm to the profession.

I would think talented mainstream comedians would adapt, and will also write jokes involving trans people that don't cause an uproar

Like I think this is pretty funny...

 

[thehealthinspector]

They're free to "punch up" same as Dave

Unless progressives decide to revoke that rule

 

[Master Zik]

I think one of the assumptions I disagree with is that purging certain jokes about trans people from the menu of subject comedians can talk about will cause some sort of irreparable harm to the profession.

I would think talented mainstream comedians would adapt, and will also write jokes involving trans people that don't cause an uproar

Like I think this is pretty funny...

I mean he just used the trans topic as a setup to tell a n word joke.

 

[gry60]

as I said,

the context of stand up comedy is different from interpersonal communication.

just because I am okay with comedians using offensive imagery in their art does not mean I would accept or condone said imagery every other context. this should be obvious.

there is literally a joke about this office.
Michael Scott trying to perform a Chris Rock bit; the comedy lies in the fact that it's funny when chris rock does it on stage but a white guy performing it in an office setting is absurd.

but every other comedian or artist on the planet has to constantly be calculating and self editing.
and I can promise you that mindset does not produce good art.

That's not true.

Good artists calculate and self edit all the time. Look no further than the pile of unreleased songs that musicians are known to have.

You said yourself that comedy is contextual (something I agree with, as it is very hard to sell US sitcoms overseas and vice versa), so it is curious to me that you would also defend artists that refuse to acknowledge the social context in which they perform their stand ups. What's acceptable changes with time and location, and it's on the artists to adapt or face criticism.

I will also say that artists who want to provoke must not shy away from the criticism they know they will attract, especially if they can defend the points they're making through their art. The ones who cry a lot about cancel culture are those who can't reasonably defend their product.

 

[LouBrickaSian]

re: Ashlee Marie Preston


Legit question.

How differently Should trans-women that speak of attacking cis-gendered women be viewed compared to men that make similar threats?

Legit question.

so are u saying trans women are not good as those born female?

meth bout to go ham. u know how passionate he is about the trans rights

 

[LouBrickaSian]

dave talking about the blowback of being cancelled in front of a packed arena

this is free promo from the "news" sites/blogs for his doc
before he drops it indepedent

we all know how much he loves big network

dave think he slick.

 

[Present]

Like Dave said.

This has nothing to do with the actual LGBTQ community.

It was certainly Ok for him to make millions and millions of dollars doing the exact same thing to Black people on the Chappelle show for season after season with zero "sponsorship" problems ...until it wasn't.

"The powers that be" been on his head since he walked away from the machine, for the reasons he walked away from the machine, and how he came back, talking about the things he talks about, and how successful he has become doing it

The machine cant have that.

Word to James Baldwin.

Got folks mind trapped - total fixation the bait.

If you think the "cancellers" are or care about the LGBTQ community then you probably believe Republicans care about gang violence in Chicago, BLM cares about the victims of police violence, and everything else reported to you.

The numbers don't lie - the special was hugely successful.

Dave will always have an audience amongst Black people. He just trying to do too much with all these deals.

Once you get to a certain level you'd better get down or lay down. Just the way it is.

Even more reason for us Black people to have our own.

George Wallace might have actually been right this whole time.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That's not true.

Don't be silly it is obviously true, you need only observe reality
there are obviously many jokes that are appropriate for stand up that you wouldn't perform for people in real life.

This is like white people who argue,
"i should be able to use the N- word because black people use it in rap songs"

context changes the meaning of language, you may use offensive language with your friends that you wouldn't use with a stranger.
a comedian may use offensive language in a stand up set that wouldn't appropriate for regular life.

You said yourself that comedy is contextual (something I agree with, as it is very hard to sell US sitcoms overseas and vice versa), so it is curious to me that you would also defend artists that refuse to acknowledge the social context in which they perform their stand ups. What's acceptable changes with time and location, and it's on the artists to adapt or face criticism.

I will also say that artists who want to provoke must not shy away from the criticism they know they will attract, especially if they can defend the points they're making through their art. The ones who cry a lot about cancel culture are those who can't reasonably defend their product.

the culture hasn't actually changed that much, the average person does not think Dave should not be cancelled. the average consumer is fine with offensive comedy.

a small elite group of cultural consumer are trying to impose their politics on the public.
now you may agree with those politics. which is fine. I do not.

but acting like there is some large cultural consensus that what Dave is doing is not okay.
just isn't true.

also I don't get the sense that dave is shying away from criticism, he literally just did a entire special addressing critics.