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- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by JAYxSF415,
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Because it is.
Kobe's prime was not on the level of Magic's prime or Bird's prime. It doesn't matter how much longer he plays, that's not changing.
You have to factor in that Kobe played with terrible players during his prime. WHat Kobe did two years the Lakers lost to the Suns in the playoffs is very underrated IMO. By the time Bird/Magic/Jordan reached their primes they had great teammates.
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Because it is.
Kobe's prime was not on the level of Magic's prime or Bird's prime. It doesn't matter how much longer he plays, that's not changing.
You have to factor in that Kobe played with terrible players during his prime. WHat Kobe did two years the Lakers lost to the Suns in the playoffs is very underrated IMO. By the time Bird/Magic/Jordan reached their primes they had great teammates.
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Pretty much. When we're talking about comparing Mike to other players, those are the years I look at. Not to say that I toss the rest of his career out the window, but I put more importance on his prime.
*shrugs*
That's just me though.
*shrugs*
That's just me though.
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Pretty much. When we're talking about comparing Mike to other players, those are the years I look at. Not to say that I toss the rest of his career out the window, but I put more importance on his prime.
*shrugs*
That's just me though.
*shrugs*
That's just me though.
You have to factor in that Kobe played with terrible players during his prime.
Exactly why I was sayin "primes" are irrelevant. Larry Bird wasn't doin a God damn thing with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown as 60% of his starting unit, with Brian Cook, Devean George, and Chris Mihm comin off the damn bench. (God i hate typing in those names.)
And that's the flaw with picking and choosing when and where players peaks were. Kobe has literally led 3 different lives in the NBA. 1B winning titles with Shaq. Elite monster playing in a rebuilding stage after that, and then 1A in the Gasol era. How can you pick or choose which one was better to judge vs other players? That's not possible. Kobe at 26-27-28 woulda been ridiculous with Shaq in the 00-01-02 seasons, and Kobe at 00-01-02 might not have worked out well with Pau and Odom and co today. There's no way to say for sure.
As I said, Magic and Bird both had 8 years with basically the same casts around them give or take a part or two that added on. They led one single life in the NBA.
Mike also had 2 lives. Pre and post baseball. @#$% Kareem's prime was as a Buck, 1 title. Later on in life, and still a great player, but not the same, 5. His "prime" was in the 70's and that defines his career?
So, my bad, I know like you said, it's your way of evaluating players, I hear what you're saying, but you leave alot out that way. And I think that can take away from a comparison people are making. I don't mean to get on ya or nothin, Lord knows I think of things differently then most people, the beauty of sports imo.
You have to factor in that Kobe played with terrible players during his prime.
Exactly why I was sayin "primes" are irrelevant. Larry Bird wasn't doin a God damn thing with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown as 60% of his starting unit, with Brian Cook, Devean George, and Chris Mihm comin off the damn bench. (God i hate typing in those names.)
And that's the flaw with picking and choosing when and where players peaks were. Kobe has literally led 3 different lives in the NBA. 1B winning titles with Shaq. Elite monster playing in a rebuilding stage after that, and then 1A in the Gasol era. How can you pick or choose which one was better to judge vs other players? That's not possible. Kobe at 26-27-28 woulda been ridiculous with Shaq in the 00-01-02 seasons, and Kobe at 00-01-02 might not have worked out well with Pau and Odom and co today. There's no way to say for sure.
As I said, Magic and Bird both had 8 years with basically the same casts around them give or take a part or two that added on. They led one single life in the NBA.
Mike also had 2 lives. Pre and post baseball. @#$% Kareem's prime was as a Buck, 1 title. Later on in life, and still a great player, but not the same, 5. His "prime" was in the 70's and that defines his career?
So, my bad, I know like you said, it's your way of evaluating players, I hear what you're saying, but you leave alot out that way. And I think that can take away from a comparison people are making. I don't mean to get on ya or nothin, Lord knows I think of things differently then most people, the beauty of sports imo.
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Put it this way, was there ever a year when Kobe could be considered the undisputed best player in the league? Because I don't think there is.
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Put it this way, was there ever a year when Kobe could be considered the undisputed best player in the league? Because I don't think there is.
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^05-06.
I see that point, but peeps been sayin that on the man for YEARS. First it was Vince, then Tracy, then Wade, now Lebron, and Kobe just keeps on truckin, goin right past all of em. He's survived all of those dudes.
03 was his best season, and people love to say Mac was better then, then Kobe goes nuts in 06, and they still say it was someone else. *shrugs* Sorry, but nobody was a better player then Kob in 06. They all had great years in those stretches, but nobody was outscorin an entire team, a team that went to the finals that year.
I see that point, but peeps been sayin that on the man for YEARS. First it was Vince, then Tracy, then Wade, now Lebron, and Kobe just keeps on truckin, goin right past all of em. He's survived all of those dudes.
03 was his best season, and people love to say Mac was better then, then Kobe goes nuts in 06, and they still say it was someone else. *shrugs* Sorry, but nobody was a better player then Kob in 06. They all had great years in those stretches, but nobody was outscorin an entire team, a team that went to the finals that year.
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^05-06.
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hopefully youre not counting MVPs as the best player
no one was touching kobe as the clear cut best player in '06 and '07. you can even argue '03 with his scoring streak
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hopefully youre not counting MVPs as the best player
no one was touching kobe as the clear cut best player in '06 and '07. you can even argue '03 with his scoring streak
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Better stick to comparing Kobe to Magic. Once you start talking about Kobe being the best player in *insert whatever year in the 2000's,* you gonna get trouble.
Surprised Tim Duncan didn't get brought up yet. Oops.
Surprised Tim Duncan didn't get brought up yet. Oops.
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Better stick to comparing Kobe to Magic. Once you start talking about Kobe being the best player in *insert whatever year in the 2000's,* you gonna get trouble.
Surprised Tim Duncan didn't get brought up yet. Oops.
Surprised Tim Duncan didn't get brought up yet. Oops.
I thought about this on my way home.
What year was Magic better then Bird? What year was Bird better then Magic? And then MJ came along. Was Barkley the best player in the NBA in 93? Year to year best player has always been subjective. People say Bron was the best player in the game last year, but Kobe won the title. In 06 we say that Kobe was the best, but Nash was MVP, and Wade won the title. Peirce said he was the best in the NBA after he won 08. So who is it?
So you see, best player comes and goes. There's no concrete way to prove one way or the other. I would say if you were in the discussion, top 2-3, then that is a pretty solid qualifier to me.
I thought about this on my way home.
What year was Magic better then Bird? What year was Bird better then Magic? And then MJ came along. Was Barkley the best player in the NBA in 93? Year to year best player has always been subjective. People say Bron was the best player in the game last year, but Kobe won the title. In 06 we say that Kobe was the best, but Nash was MVP, and Wade won the title. Peirce said he was the best in the NBA after he won 08. So who is it?
So you see, best player comes and goes. There's no concrete way to prove one way or the other. I would say if you were in the discussion, top 2-3, then that is a pretty solid qualifier to me.
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If youre talkin about impact then of course Magic wins by a landslide...The 80's brought the league back, and its flourished since.
Are we talkin about who's the better player or who helped usher in the golden age of basketball ? Because thats 2 very different things.
To SeymoreCAKE im not sure if youre referring to my post because i did mention how Kobe became more of a playmaker, but in no way is he a better playmaker than Magic.
I mentioned that because that was always the knock on Kobe, how he couldnt play team ball.....Once he figured that out it was a wrap imo.
Are we talkin about who's the better player or who helped usher in the golden age of basketball ? Because thats 2 very different things.
To SeymoreCAKE im not sure if youre referring to my post because i did mention how Kobe became more of a playmaker, but in no way is he a better playmaker than Magic.
I mentioned that because that was always the knock on Kobe, how he couldnt play team ball.....Once he figured that out it was a wrap imo.
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If youre talkin about impact then of course Magic wins by a landslide...The 80's brought the league back, and its flourished since.
Are we talkin about who's the better player or who helped usher in the golden age of basketball ? Because thats 2 very different things.
To SeymoreCAKE im not sure if youre referring to my post because i did mention how Kobe became more of a playmaker, but in no way is he a better playmaker than Magic.
I mentioned that because that was always the knock on Kobe, how he couldnt play team ball.....Once he figured that out it was a wrap imo.
Are we talkin about who's the better player or who helped usher in the golden age of basketball ? Because thats 2 very different things.
To SeymoreCAKE im not sure if youre referring to my post because i did mention how Kobe became more of a playmaker, but in no way is he a better playmaker than Magic.
I mentioned that because that was always the knock on Kobe, how he couldnt play team ball.....Once he figured that out it was a wrap imo.
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I can't put kobe over magic or bird for the simple reason they saved the nba. the league was on tape delay. the only stats i need are my two eyeballs. how can you guys diss magic for losing 4 times in the finals but praise kobe even tho he quit in the suns series after going up 3-1. i hear talk about magic playing with h.o.fers. kobe played with 3 other h.o.fers and they got beat in 5 by the pistons. when it comes down to it magic wins due to his intangibles. would kobe ever jump center in a finals game? ask yourself this, has kobe ever made his teammates better? i can argue that worthy made his career off magic's back? kareem was on his last legs when magic joined the lakers? in the biggest game of kobe's life he was outplayed by ron artest. during the playoff run the last two years, i could argue that derek fisher has hitter bigger more clutch shots than kobe. it's not always about scoring its about making plays. magic was simply a better play maker which is why magic>kobe.
3900stabler
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I can't put kobe over magic or bird for the simple reason they saved the nba. the league was on tape delay. the only stats i need are my two eyeballs. how can you guys diss magic for losing 4 times in the finals but praise kobe even tho he quit in the suns series after going up 3-1. i hear talk about magic playing with h.o.fers. kobe played with 3 other h.o.fers and they got beat in 5 by the pistons. when it comes down to it magic wins due to his intangibles. would kobe ever jump center in a finals game? ask yourself this, has kobe ever made his teammates better? i can argue that worthy made his career off magic's back? kareem was on his last legs when magic joined the lakers? in the biggest game of kobe's life he was outplayed by ron artest. during the playoff run the last two years, i could argue that derek fisher has hitter bigger more clutch shots than kobe. it's not always about scoring its about making plays. magic was simply a better play maker which is why magic>kobe.
