- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
The Cavs talked to the Hornets about Chandler before this deal was made?
DONE DEAL: Shaq to Cleveland for Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace/ EDIT: Villanueva next???
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by outacontrol music,
- Start date
- 9,530
- 91
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2003
I guess I am old when compared to the 15-17 age range that dominates NT. Back to the topic though, saying Cleveland was just 2 games away from thefinals is misleading. In reality you guys should have been swept. The Cavs don't know how to play defense and your bench is downright terrible. If bychance the Cavs would have beaten Orlando, there was no way in hell you could have beaten the Lakers. Shaq is an improvemnt to what you had at the centerposition, no doubt. Until Lebron gets an actual realible second and third option, along with a deeper threat on your bench, the Cavs still aren't goinganywhere.Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein
damn you that old browsing nt?Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN
First of all I have been watching basketball since you were swimming in your pops, junior. Secondly, I am not a Lakers or a Kobe fan. Keep having delusions of grandeur and we will see who's laughing when the Cavs aren't hoisting *#%% up come next June
im no youngin on here and youve been watching bball for that long, that makes you damn near 30 lol ... and just to reiterate, to say the cavs need "a hell of a lot more" to win is stupid ... they were 2 games away from playing in the finals and beat a team 2 times who beat the champions 2 times ... and then, they addressed their biggest need ...
Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein
for the record your avy still epicly wins ...Originally Posted by CP1708
All jokes aside, Shaq last year had Nash, Stat (part of the year) J-Rich, Barbosa, Hill, and Barnes, and they couldn't even make the playoffs.
Now Shaq is a year older, and is going to have Bron and who else that can score? Mo? West? Boobie? That group is an upgrade over Phoenix?
And I know, as OC always says, "they play that D" uh huh. Shaq won't be playing as good of D as Ben was last year, and Ben was not the same Ben. That should say something to Cavs fans.
Shaq may open up some spot up shooting, that may help, but it means that West and Mo will need to be on point all year, no guarantee. And if Bron doesn't continue to add to his jumper.........
(I think Bron will get better with his J, just sayin if he doesn't, it will be a problem)
Another one is Shaq could clog the lane a bit for Bron. He needs those lanes, they may not be there now. Bron and Z runnin the pick and pop works well in the reg season, running it with Shaq won't be the same, someone like D12 won't even need to come out vs Shaq, so that ain't good.
Shaq's free throws will cost Cleveland a few games. Get used to it. It's going to happen. He always has a good game here and there, we've all seen it, but we've all also seen him have 50 bad ones. If I see one Cleveland fan try to tell me that he will shoot his free throws better now, I will ban you myself.
And finally, Shaq's conditioning. Out in Phoenix, it worked miracles for him. Their trainers, the whether, etc etc etc. But look clsely here, Orlando, LA, Miami, Phoenix, Cleveland. Which of these cities don't belong? Thas right, the city where it will be freezing for 5 months. Is that going to help a 38 year old 300 pound man feel good for 8-9 months? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no, he is not going to be as healthy as he was last season.
Anyone sees any flaws in what I have just said, please, bring them to my attention immediately.
as for the hogwash you just posted though ... lebron > nash j rich and every other player on the suns squad ...
who else that can score? dont let one series fool you, mo williams is a scorer and simply choked against the magic ... they were fine all year at guard up until the magic series and it was because they couldnt knock down shots, it happens ...
as for defense ... your e underestimating the toll it takes on a big man to guard shaq on the offensive end ... imagine shaq digging in your *$@* and dunking on you and coming down the court with a sore rib here and there, *$@* is not fun and will take softees out of their offensive game ... big men against cleveland had to play 0 defense aside from waiting for someone to drive and trying to swat at a layup ...
and this clog the lane nonsense ... yeah shaq clogged the lane for d wade and kobe too ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
damn so cleveland wont win 68 games or whatever they did they might win 63 ... ... ... ... ...
shaqs will to do it "one more time" and *$@* on the nay sayers > his laziness ... check dudes twitter hes always talking about how hard hes been working out and how he wants to be in the best shape possible for the next 2 years ...
Ok, fair enough. Counterpoint.
Bron by himself is better then the whole Suns offensive roster? You really beleive that do you?
You expect Mo and Wes to keep on having career years?
Good point on the toll it will take guarding Shaq, that is true. However, teams like the Celts and Magic are good enough, they will have other ways to tireout Shaq just the same.
Don't compare Shaq clogging the lane for Bron at 38 to him still being skillful and mobile at 34 with Wade, and early 30's with Kobe. Little bit of adifference there don't ya think?
And Shaq has said since he was 26 how hard he works out, and all that other crap. You honestly beleive anything that dude ever says? Guy makes up more randomcrap every day man, come on.
And not having HC could also be a problem ya know? Especially when you have guys that underperformed in the Magic series, putting them on the road for 2 gamesto start a series won't exactly calm their nerves.
Panic moves are never good ones. Remember how Phoenix thought they were going to start competing with the Spurs and Lakers. Didn't work out so well. This is a panic more. A move to help make Bron happy, and a move to try and fix what scared them vs the Magic. Just as hard as Shaq works this offseason,Dwight Howard workin the same. But he's only gonna be 24 next year. His improvement > Shaq's "improvement" next year. Keep that inmind.
- 5,310
- 22
- Joined
- May 28, 2005
hell be bad mouthing phoenix in no time
- 1,810
- 10
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
If the Cavs get Charlie Villanueva, they're gonna be tough. He wants to go there too... I heard him on his Twit piece, he's like now all the Cavs needis a 4...
lobotomybeats
Supporter
- 9,199
- 18,617
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2004
CP1708, I guess I don't see this as a panic move. I see this as taking the best trade option currently out there.
- 1,386
- 10
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
i think the difference between this "panic" move and the phoenix one is that shaq actually fits in cleveland ... this will benefit z and shaq equally... shaq doesnt have to log 40 minutes a night ... the cavs dont have to completely change their offensive scheme to fit shaq in ... z and shaq both save eachother from wearing down ... and more importantly, shaq comes off the books when bosh and others hit the market ... this was the ONLY move the cavs could maketo keep lebron around ... shut him up and give him the player he wanted, while still being able to make a run at him and one more star in a year ...
d howards game is remedial ... if he hasnt improved now, what makes you think he will in the offseason? this isnt the first time people have exposed him fornot having any game ... the dude is incapable of learning to play offense ...
d howards game is remedial ... if he hasnt improved now, what makes you think he will in the offseason? this isnt the first time people have exposed him fornot having any game ... the dude is incapable of learning to play offense ...
- 13,094
- 2,121
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2001
Charlie V is nice but I'm not sure Cleveland can afford him at this point.
And I agree that this was a trade to placate LeBron.
Shaq's attitude has deteriorated right along with his skills.
Still not feeling this deal UNTIL they add another piece.
And I agree that this was a trade to placate LeBron.
Shaq's attitude has deteriorated right along with his skills.
Still not feeling this deal UNTIL they add another piece.
Eh, panic move might be a strong word to use, but anytime you make a move for a 38 year old player as your hopes to get a championship.......thas pretty closeto panic ya know?
Now, if Cleveland is able to make further moves, then I might see things differently. In fact, Sheed might be a good idea, he would certainly help that pickand roll/ pick and pop option. His D would help, his length, backup, depth etc etc etc. Then you would just need to worry about his head. Shaq and Jamesshould be able to control him, but I wouldn't risk my life on it. We'll see what else they can do. But Shaq alone, is not anywhere close to enough.
Now, if Cleveland is able to make further moves, then I might see things differently. In fact, Sheed might be a good idea, he would certainly help that pickand roll/ pick and pop option. His D would help, his length, backup, depth etc etc etc. Then you would just need to worry about his head. Shaq and Jamesshould be able to control him, but I wouldn't risk my life on it. We'll see what else they can do. But Shaq alone, is not anywhere close to enough.
- 12,426
- 2,239
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2001
i dunno whos available but they need to add depth now that sasha is gone ...
barnes?
- 1,386
- 10
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
not because of the move for charlie (which would be a significant one) but for having the ugliest 1-2 duo at the 4 spot in nba history ... varejao and villa...
Didn't Howard's game improve alot from 22 to 23? The kid ain't done learnin the game ya know? He works all summer with Pat, heshould improve nicely.
And his "lack" of game got them to the finals, gets him 20 and 15 a night, defensive player of the year, etc etc etc and he's remedial. I wish Iwas remedial like that.
- 1,505
- 13
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2002
For all those blaming Kerr, reports are that he NEVER wanted to do the Shaq trade, but other management and owners were in love with the idea.
- 21,951
- 1,398
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2003
Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein
not because of the move for charlie (which would be a significant one) but for having the ugliest 1-2 duo at the 4 spot in nba history ... varejao and villa ...yikes
Cavs will NOT get Charlie V, there is a reason the Bucks moved Richardson for those expiring.
- 2,570
- 10
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2009
- 611
- 10
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2005
All jokes aside, Shaq last year had Nash, Stat (part of the year) J-Rich, Barbosa, Hill, and Barnes, and they couldn't even make the playoffs.
Does anyone on that team scream out winner to youGottahave some heart and I don't think any of them or all of them combined match the will to want a Chip like Bron does. Only person in that group that Iactually can vision have any killer instinct would G Hill and it's not near the level of Bron.
Now Shaq is a year older, and is going to have Bron and who else that can score? Mo? West? Boobie? That group is an upgrade over Phoenix?
And I know, as OC always says, "they play that D" uh huh. Shaq won't be playing as good of D as Ben was last year, and Ben was not the same Ben. That should say something to Cavs fans.
It is obvious by your first statement that the Cavs already had a better team than Phoenix... whether it's coaching or whatever the Sunsfinished 20 games behind the Cavs.
And you seriously are not comparing Shaq to Wallace
Shaq 18 8 with 1.4 blocks
Wallace 3 6 with 1.3 blocks (That 3 was not a typo)
And I can see you said Ben was not the same Ben this season... you failed to mention he is not the same Ben since the 05 season.
Not to mention Shaq changes as many shots as Ben does and if anyone gives you second thoughts about driving the lane it would be the Diesel.
Shaq may open up some spot up shooting, that may help, but it means that West and Mo will need to be on point all year, no guarantee. And if Bron doesn't continue to add to his jumper.........
(I think Bron will get better with his J, just sayin if he doesn't, it will be a problem)
Another one is Shaq could clog the lane a bit for Bron. He needs those lanes, they may not be there now. Bron and Z runnin the pick and pop works well in the reg season, running it with Shaq won't be the same, someone like D12 won't even need to come out vs Shaq, so that ain't good.
Please revisit Shaq & Wade.... talk about someone that needed lanes to handle his biz Wade was that guy it worked out pretty good for him.
Revisit Shaq & Kobe... although Kobe has a great J he didn't always have it and seemed like the combo was a winner.
I beleive Shaq + Premier Swingman = success
Shaq's free throws will cost Cleveland a few games. Get used to it. It's going to happen. He always has a good game here and there, we've all seen it, but we've all also seen him have 50 bad ones. If I see one Cleveland fan try to tell me that he will shoot his free throws better now, I will ban you myself.
umm the Cavs had the best record in the league... don't think the 50 games are going to be close enough for Shaq to lose them at the line.
- 1,386
- 10
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
his improvement was more conditioning and intelligence, than skill based ... he has been "working" on his post up game for 5 years now and noimprovements ...
i never said he wasnt effective and his impact is definitely felt throughout the game ... but shaq will be able to at least hinder his effectiveness somewhat...
i never said he wasnt effective and his impact is definitely felt throughout the game ... but shaq will be able to at least hinder his effectiveness somewhat...
DYNAMICS
formerly diplomat tdot
- 28,586
- 3,779
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2002
- 1,505
- 13
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2002
LOL.
I do think this trade was good for the Cavs. Shaq is a HUGE UPGRADE over Wallace. It gives them cap space in 2010. Its a good PR move in general as well, butto compare this to Kareem winning the chip at 39/40 is ridiculous. You have to look at the squad as whole. Something many Lebron supporters remind us everydayof the bums he plays with. The Laker squad was stacked.
Magic Johnson
Byron Scott
Kareem
AC Green
James Worthy
Michael Cooper
- 1,543
- 10
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2005
Why is anyone criticizing this move for the Cavs??
They gave up NOTHING, and got a 3rd team all NBA Center who is training real hard this summer looking for a Chip. Obviously they need to add a wingman, andprobably will. But this moves get them one step closer to a Chip and yall know it
They gave up NOTHING, and got a 3rd team all NBA Center who is training real hard this summer looking for a Chip. Obviously they need to add a wingman, andprobably will. But this moves get them one step closer to a Chip and yall know it
- 1,812
- 10
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- 4,011
- 51
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2006
I woke up and turned on SC and saw this
- 39,203
- 42,513
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2006
I really don't find one thing wrong with this trade.
You needed an inside preseance and you got it.
Yeah he may be a little old but he is still Shaq which makes him better then 85% of the centers in the NBA.
Do they need another move? Maybe.
No matter what right now this is one of the top 3 teams in the east. Hell they were a top 3 team before Shaq.
I can see the X-mas day game now.....
You needed an inside preseance and you got it.
Yeah he may be a little old but he is still Shaq which makes him better then 85% of the centers in the NBA.
Do they need another move? Maybe.
No matter what right now this is one of the top 3 teams in the east. Hell they were a top 3 team before Shaq.
I can see the X-mas day game now.....
- 681
- 161
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2004
being in the best shape possible means nothing when you don't have the footwork/finesse to back it up. shaq has ZERO post moves thatdoesn't involve just backing his fat +@% down in the paint.Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein
for the record your avy still epicly wins ...Originally Posted by CP1708
All jokes aside, Shaq last year had Nash, Stat (part of the year) J-Rich, Barbosa, Hill, and Barnes, and they couldn't even make the playoffs.
Now Shaq is a year older, and is going to have Bron and who else that can score? Mo? West? Boobie? That group is an upgrade over Phoenix?
And I know, as OC always says, "they play that D" uh huh. Shaq won't be playing as good of D as Ben was last year, and Ben was not the same Ben. That should say something to Cavs fans.
Shaq may open up some spot up shooting, that may help, but it means that West and Mo will need to be on point all year, no guarantee. And if Bron doesn't continue to add to his jumper.........
(I think Bron will get better with his J, just sayin if he doesn't, it will be a problem)
Another one is Shaq could clog the lane a bit for Bron. He needs those lanes, they may not be there now. Bron and Z runnin the pick and pop works well in the reg season, running it with Shaq won't be the same, someone like D12 won't even need to come out vs Shaq, so that ain't good.
Shaq's free throws will cost Cleveland a few games. Get used to it. It's going to happen. He always has a good game here and there, we've all seen it, but we've all also seen him have 50 bad ones. If I see one Cleveland fan try to tell me that he will shoot his free throws better now, I will ban you myself.
And finally, Shaq's conditioning. Out in Phoenix, it worked miracles for him. Their trainers, the whether, etc etc etc. But look clsely here, Orlando, LA, Miami, Phoenix, Cleveland. Which of these cities don't belong? Thas right, the city where it will be freezing for 5 months. Is that going to help a 38 year old 300 pound man feel good for 8-9 months? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no, he is not going to be as healthy as he was last season.
Anyone sees any flaws in what I have just said, please, bring them to my attention immediately.
as for the hogwash you just posted though ... lebron > nash j rich and every other player on the suns squad ...
who else that can score? dont let one series fool you, mo williams is a scorer and simply choked against the magic ... they were fine all year at guard up until the magic series and it was because they couldnt knock down shots, it happens ...
as for defense ... your e underestimating the toll it takes on a big man to guard shaq on the offensive end ... imagine shaq digging in your *$@* and dunking on you and coming down the court with a sore rib here and there, *$@* is not fun and will take softees out of their offensive game ... big men against cleveland had to play 0 defense aside from waiting for someone to drive and trying to swat at a layup ...
and this clog the lane nonsense ... yeah shaq clogged the lane for d wade and kobe too ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
damn so cleveland wont win 68 games or whatever they did they might win 63 ... ... ... ... ...
shaqs will to do it "one more time" and *$@* on the nay sayers > his laziness ... check dudes twitter hes always talking about how hard hes been working out and how he wants to be in the best shape possible for the next 2 years ...
i like how you keep mentioning d howard and how shaq is suppose to make him work...howard is 22, athletic and will only get better. after getting a taste ofthe finals this year you better bet his im the gym everyday working to get back to the ship.
cleveland still needs a backcourt. williams/west/gibson are all great backups but not star guards that are capable of taking their team to another level. weall saw what billups did for denver this year. you need a leader on the floor with experience. there's no doubt that lebron is the spoken leader of thecavs but they need a guard to run the offense in high pressure situations. someone like billups has been there before and i'll be dammed if the nuggetsdon't give the lakers a run for their money next year.
shaq won't slow down the cavs like he did to the suns since mike brown insists on setting a halfcourt set and giving the ball to bron to do work. brown isa bum and it's about time someone realized it. he only won coach of the year because bron had an amazing season. every time they got handled in theplayoffs he would swing it to bron and clear the runway. no way a man should avg 41 a game in the playoffs and lose.
it's going to be up to cavs management to pickup a few players that can help space the floor since bron has a one man inside outside game. someone who canboard and shoot the j. an odom/prince type player would be perfect but that's not happening this century. so until the cavs address their REAL problems,i'll put my money on another mgic/laker finals to go 7 next year
blah!
