Early Releases are High Quality Fakes

[xdepredatex]

Good luck with them,sounds a little suspect too me.

Well they're coming directly from china the yuan price equates to about retail in dollars and then plus agent fee and international shipping plus if I get a bad pair, I'm willing to take the L. I'll just flip them to a homie who wants em.

 

[ninjahood]

Where can you even find early releases anymore? I was under the impression that all of those sites no longer exist.

its a shell game, once ya start bad mouthing their sites they usually switch their names and reboot.

 

[ninjahood]

I had an interesting read, and I thought I might share;

I briefly mentioned in the Air Jordan thread about the whole Air Randy thing so I thought it’s good to have a separate thread about it. This is my take on it based on my 25+ years’ passion to sneakers. Feel free to share your thoughts as this is NOT the definite info on the issue as I don’t work in the sneaker industry or law enforcement agency.

For starters, this is a good article from sneakerfreaker years ago THE SCOOP ON FAKE SNEAKERS http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/feature/fake-sneaker-info

Enjoy the light read albeit long read

SO WHICH ONE IS WHICH?

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine. Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products. In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license. COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product.

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build. If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING. If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players).

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV. What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together. In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories. Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale. Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES. B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection. There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers. Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws. Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e. 1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry. Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market. A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS. It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike. These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1. Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011. JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2. Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011. JB’s approved the sample.

3. The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4. The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units.

5. The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6. The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7. The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8. Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9. Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10. Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11. JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this. They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well.


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE! This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits.

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1. It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING. Nike is really a marketing company as well.


SO ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD?

These sneaker merchants see a market for these grey sneakers and they capitalise on it. It wise business move I say because if Air Randy dont, someone else will. If they stay in the grey market then IMO its all good but if they are doing counterfeiting then HATE HATE.

Again it really is a fine line. In the end we THE CONSUMER WINS because WE HAVE A CHOICE. However its CAVEAT EMPTOR. Let the buyer beware. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

Now as I have read, I can understand ninjahood point. I label grey market as B grade sellers as of now. Authentic, yet not correctly made. Flawed.

Either way, I'm not going to purchase a flawed pair

Anyway, enjoy the read. In b4 ninjahood goes on a rant about intellect.

i told cats this is what it is..i dunno why people wanna be so stubborn.

 

[PRIME]

I can't take anyone in this thread who doesn't know the difference between a fake and a B-Grade seriously.

The definition of "variant" isn't "fake".

Comic book artists make variant covers all the time. You mean to tell me those aren't real comics?

A replica is a copy of something. People wear replica jerseys made by Nike named "swingman" all the damn time. A replica is not a fake. A replica is a copy. We are all wearing replica's by definition, because the only true "original" air Jordans are the ones Mike wore himself.

A "fake" is an impostor, or non genuine product. Something someone makes with completely different materials trying to give off the image of something else. If an Authentic gold Rolex is made with solid gold, and someone makes one with stainless steel, it is a fake rolex. Why? Because the authentic is made with real gold, not steel.


Before anyone comes in trying to kick knowledge or drop wisdom on some ****. Please, know what the hell you're talking about first. Because a lot of ya'll are just sounding like miseducated fools who learned new words and want to sound like you know something.

A B-Grade is a factory defected model. An AUTHENTIC model that has not passed quality control. It is authorized by Nike because Nike authorized the factory to build the shoe.

B-Grade =/= Fake

By definition replica =/= fake and a variant =/= fake


If these shoes are made in Nike factories, by Nike workers with Nike's materials. They are NIKES. Whether some fat bald guy signed his signature of approval for them or not. They are the same as the ones he authorized.

If they aren't made in Nike factories, by Nike workers, with Nike's materials, they are not Nike's they are fugazi.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

 

[antidope]

Where can you even find early releases anymore? I was under the impression that all of those sites no longer exist.

its a shell game, once ya start bad mouthing their sites they usually switch their names and reboot.

Yeah I know, but usually if you google the site, somewhere on page one of your search youre informed that they moved elsewhere, I see none of that for the early release sites that I know about. 

Can we get a synopsis of this thread and what the major plus and minuses of early release pairs are? Sir Charles and Ninjahood? 

 

[trethousandgt]

I can't take anyone in this thread who doesn't know the difference between a fake and a B-Grade seriously.

The definition of "variant" isn't "fake".

Comic book artists make variant covers all the time. You mean to tell me those aren't real comics?

A replica is a copy of something. People wear replica jerseys made by Nike named "swingman" all the damn time. A replica is not a fake. A replica is a copy. We are all wearing replica's by definition, because the only true "original" air Jordans are the ones Mike wore himself.

A "fake" is an impostor, or non genuine product. Something someone makes with completely different materials trying to give off the image of something else. If an Authentic gold Rolex is made with solid gold, and someone makes one with stainless steel, it is a fake rolex. Why? Because the authentic is made with real gold, not steel.


Before anyone comes in trying to kick knowledge or drop wisdom on some ****. Please, know what the hell you're talking about first. Because a lot of ya'll are just sounding like miseducated fools who learned new words and want to sound like you know something.

A B-Grade is a factory defected model. An AUTHENTIC model that has not passed quality control. It is authorized by Nike because Nike authorized the factory to build the shoe.

B-Grade =/= Fake

By definition replica =/= fake and a variant =/= fake


If these shoes are made in Nike factories, by Nike workers with Nike's materials. They are NIKES. Whether some fat bald guy signed his signature of approval for them or not. They are the same as the ones he authorized.

If they aren't made in Nike factories, by Nike workers, with Nike's materials, they are not Nike's they are fugazi.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

You really believe they can't secure the same materials used for a sneaker when they fake aircraft engine parts, electronics and pharmaceuticals? Right.

Also, not that this would change anything anyway since fakes are made in the same factories but what proof do you have that these "early release" aka fake shoes are coming from the same factory?


In addition to the New York Times article I posted a few pages back everyone should read this as well http://www.iacc.org/news-media-resources/news-archive/special-report-faked-in-china.php

 

[anthracite8s]

what blows my mind is the people who pay high reseller price for these... they aren't rare at all. they can produce them whenever there is demand and put phony dates on the tags. look at kicksole. if they weren't produced unauthorized or at later dates, wouldn't they have ran out of half their kicks by now?

 

[sir charles]

^That is were buyer beware comes in,

The factory makes, what, 800-1,000 extra copies? Which are all the b-grade semi messed up pairs. Which are then sold to the Early release site by the factory owners. Real shoes, same as the Nike pairs, they were just supposed to be destroyed.

Now there are more early release sites selling FSRs than there are FSRs of the B-Grades. So some are making molds out of these shoes to make their own, and some are just selling what they got their hands on.

 

[jecca650]

lol only people defending these fakes are the ones who have them in their collection. yall keep rocking your space jams with different colored soles and ill keep my legit J's from authorized retailers like FTL/FNL/eastbay .

"naw bruh these are real they made in the same factory with the same materials"

 

[anthracite8s]

Anyone tr
I hope the mods save this thread, because once its common knowledge these shoes early release shoes are fake these same dudes advocating will be the same people saying they never said xyz

lol the funniest thing is those dudes who cop from these places and have blogs, youtube vids, etc. reviewing the shoe and everything lol. like what is his name joey venuto or something like that I remember him saying all his kicks come from kicksole or something like that..

 

[Bert.]

lol only people defending these fakes are the ones who have them in their collection. yall keep rocking your space jams with different colored soles and ill keep my legit J's from authorized retailers like FTL/FNL/eastbay .

"naw bruh these are real they made in the same factory with the same materials"

bruh, i just copped those.

they aint fake

 

[jecca650]

"yea bruh 100% real they by chang wan sun joo same cat who made those those bred 11s you got from finishline. patent leather from concords, soles from breds and rest from fire red 4s bruh 100% real deal all real parts from same guy who made your s in the same factory."

 

[sir charles]

I don't have any early releases, but I understand the logic behind them

 

[friscogza]

My thoughts exactly, these site are all fake regardless

 

[ninjahood]

what blows my mind is the people who pay high reseller price for these... they aren't rare at all. they can produce them whenever there is demand and put phony dates on the tags. look at kicksole. if they weren't produced unauthorized or at later dates, wouldn't they have ran out of half their kicks by now?

still doesn't make em fake.

unauthorized pairs =/= fake

 

[c-bri-23]

Where did this "unauthorized" theory originate? Can we really speak on it as fact? I think its BS, especially seeing as how there is seemingly an unlimited number of sellers with fsr everywhere u turn

 

[sir charles]

Where did this "unauthorized" theory originate? Can we really speak on it as fact? I think its BS, especially seeing as how there is seemingly an unlimited number of sellers with fsr everywhere u turn

I'll explain it to you.

Jb gets production in order, they make 1,000 extra copies to sift out factory slip ups and b-grades. Once all the pairs are made, the 1,000 flawed extras are to be destroyed, however, the factories do not destroy the copies. They sell them for extra cash to early release sellers.


Now the seller can either release what they bought, which is no different than a b grade.

Or they can make a mold of the shoe the bought and make their own version, which is fake.

That's why most say buyer beware

 

[c-bri-23]

I'll explain it to you.

Jb gets production in order, they make 1,000 extra copies to sift out factory slip ups and b-grades. Once all the pairs are made, the 1,000 flawed extras are to be destroyed, however, the factories do not destroy the copies. They sell them for extra cash to early release sellers.


Now the seller can either release what they bought, which is no different than a b grade.

Or they can make a mold of the shoe the bought and make their own version, which is fake.

That's why most say buyer beware

Lol, i know the theory. I want to know where it came from...why youre confident in it. 1,000 more pairs isnt all that much in the scheme of things but there are farrrrrr more pairs coming from unidentified sources than that anyway. So chances are theyre are way more people out there with fakes who think otherwise.

 

[trethousandgt]

I'll explain it to you.

Jb gets production in order, they make 1,000 extra copies to sift out factory slip ups and b-grades. Once all the pairs are made, the 1,000 flawed extras are to be destroyed, however, the factories do not destroy the copies. They sell them for extra cash to early release sellers.


Now the seller can either release what they bought, which is no different than a b grade.

Or they can make a mold of the shoe the bought and make their own version, which is fake.

Boy oh boy I swear some people should be writing children stories.


Notice how Ninjahood and his supporters just conveniently SKIPPED this:

You really believe they can't secure the same materials used for a sneaker when they fake aircraft engine parts, electronics and pharmaceuticals? Right.

Also, not that this would change anything anyway since fakes are made in the same factories but what proof do you have that these "early release" aka fake shoes are coming from the same factory?


In addition to the New York Times article I posted a few pages back everyone should read this as well http://www.iacc.org/news-media-resources/news-archive/special-report-faked-in-china.php

 

[eltouha]

sure, wiki is a true academic resource.

smh

there's a lot of assumptions coming from your end, tre. at first you agreed when someone claimed the only people arguing against you have a lot at stake in these. i pointed out that is false. you ignored it.

you kept going on about quality of the kicks, asserting that 99% the authorised pairs were better than unauthorised pairs. i pointed out you had no basis for making this claim. you ignored it.

on this page it is claimed that the only people arguing counter to you are those who have pairs in their collection. sir charles also proved that false. another point conveniently ignored by yourself.

don't play high road, dude. you're spinning **** here as much as anyone.

look up "confirmation bias".

 

[Bert.]

Where did this "unauthorized" theory originate? Can we really speak on it as fact? I think its BS, especially seeing as how there is seemingly an unlimited number of sellers with fsr everywhere u turn

I'll explain it to you.

Jb gets production in order, they make 1,000 extra copies to sift out factory slip ups and b-grades. Once all the pairs are made, the 1,000 flawed extras are to be destroyed, however, the factories do not destroy the copies. They sell them for extra cash to early release sellers.


Now the seller can either release what they bought, which is no different than a b grade.

Or they can make a mold of the shoe the bought and make their own version, which is fake.

That's why most say buyer beware

i wanna know where you guys are getting these 1,000 extra orders from

everyone in here is talking outta their behind.

no one knows 100% sure what they are or arent. some of you hear things from years ago from some random dude on ISS and claim it as fact today.

we dont know how they orders are placed with nike, how much, and etc, etc

most of these shoes have authentic materials just sloppy. are they real? no idea, they are damn good and can fool anyone and they did for the last year or two but really... i think this has been going on much longer and we just didnt know.

like i said a year ago, SDS was on the legit seller list. I had bought shoes from him in the past when others co-signed him and no one yelled out FAKES! this was WAYYY before the Concord/SPace jam fiasco.

i received shoes and they were 100% exact same as NDC, FTL, etc etc came with all the size stickers, same smell, no horrible glue smell, not sloppy. Only thing that was odd was at times it had smaller boxes but thought nothing of it and neither did all others who ordered from him or Air randy back in the day.

something had to have changed since then, maybe the hype and now these dudes are pumping ridiculous amounts of shoes just to make huge profits so thats why some are different looking, smelling, and just down right sloppy as hell. they know idiots are buying them up early because HYPE is at an all time high so they dont pay attention to detail, make them quick, send them out, hypebeasts buying them up for CRAZY prices. THEY DONT CARE.

these sellers maybe were legit at one time or another, something is def going on at these factories, greed, something, not sure.

 

[ninjahood]

Where did this "unauthorized" theory originate? Can we really speak on it as fact? I think its BS, especially seeing as how there is seemingly an unlimited number of sellers with fsr everywhere u turn

here's da PROOF about da fact that grey market =/= fake

obvious early release..all da bells and whistles of da release pair MATERIAL wise..

these are da new "perfect XI" concords..this is da BEST da variant makers have come close they cost $100...and they STILLLL dont have carbon fiber..

that other video that showed space jams and cool greys with carbon fiber were LEGIT pairs..NO ONE has those "$279 carbon fiber ready" fakes.

they were trolling.

fakes =/= grey market kicks.

 

[trethousandgt]

sure, wiki is a true academic resource.

smh

there's a lot of assumptions coming from your end, tre. at first you agreed when someone claimed the only people arguing against you have a lot at stake in these. i pointed out that is false. you ignored it.

on this page it is claimed that the only people arguing counter to you are those who have pairs in their collection. sir charles also proved that false. another point conveniently ignored by yourself.

don't play high road, dude. you're spinning **** here as much as anyone.

Did you take the time to view the citations? Maybe if you had you would have seen the sources citated I would say they are pretty damn credible.

http://web.mit.edu/cis/fpi_china.html


http://www.asiabusinesscouncil.org/docs/IntellectualPropertyRights.pdf



What assumptions are coming from my end? So the New York Times has no credibility and neither does the International Anti Counterfeiting Coalition? MIT? Riiiiiiight.


Where did I claim the only people arguing against me have a lot at stake in these? Go ahead quote that find my comment and quote me. The only person I addressed was Ninjahood who made this comment

Originally Posted by ninjahood

if i was a asian worker at da factory making extra pairs with da same materials WITHOUT PERMISSION

it STILL doesn't make what i make variants..it makes that UNAUTHORIZED.

This comment doesn't make any sense:

on this page it is claimed that the only people arguing counter to you are those who have pairs in their collection. sir charles also proved that false. another point conveniently ignored by yourself.

NONE I REPEAT NONE of that matters. I don't care if someone has a full collection of these early release shoes that doesn't make them legit.


So far no one advocating that these early release pairs are legit has presented ANY REAL evidence showing these shoe are legit (which they aren't) or provided any proof that they are coming from Nike factories (which wouldn't matter anyway because fakes can come from the same factories). Also, the fact that anyone believes that a factory can't make a replica shoe with the same materials as the real deal is mind blowing

 

[PRIME]

I can't take anyone in this thread who doesn't know the difference between a fake and a B-Grade seriously.

The definition of "variant" isn't "fake".

Comic book artists make variant covers all the time. You mean to tell me those aren't real comics?

A replica is a copy of something. People wear replica jerseys made by Nike named "swingman" all the damn time. A replica is not a fake. A replica is a copy. We are all wearing replica's by definition, because the only true "original" air Jordans are the ones Mike wore himself.

A "fake" is an impostor, or non genuine product. Something someone makes with completely different materials trying to give off the image of something else. If an Authentic gold Rolex is made with solid gold, and someone makes one with stainless steel, it is a fake rolex. Why? Because the authentic is made with real gold, not steel.


Before anyone comes in trying to kick knowledge or drop wisdom on some ****. Please, know what the hell you're talking about first. Because a lot of ya'll are just sounding like miseducated fools who learned new words and want to sound like you know something.

A B-Grade is a factory defected model. An AUTHENTIC model that has not passed quality control. It is authorized by Nike because Nike authorized the factory to build the shoe.

B-Grade =/= Fake

By definition replica =/= fake and a variant =/= fake


If these shoes are made in Nike factories, by Nike workers with Nike's materials. They are NIKES. Whether some fat bald guy signed his signature of approval for them or not. They are the same as the ones he authorized.

If they aren't made in Nike factories, by Nike workers, with Nike's materials, they are not Nike's they are fugazi.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

You really believe they can't secure the same materials used for a sneaker when they fake aircraft engine parts, electronics and pharmaceuticals? Right.

Also, not that this would change anything anyway since fakes are made in the same factories but what proof do you have that these "early release" aka fake shoes are coming from the same factory?


In addition to the New York Times article I posted a few pages back everyone should read this as well http://www.iacc.org/news-media-resources/news-archive/special-report-faked-in-china.php

Reading comprehension 101

If these shoes are made in Nike factories, by Nike workers with Nike's materials. They are NIKES. Whether some fat bald guy signed his signature of approval for them or not. They are the same as the ones he authorized.

If they aren't made in Nike factories, by Nike workers, with Nike's materials, they are not Nike's they are fugazi.

Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

And whats crazy is, I don't even own a pair of these so called "fakes"

I just hate when people parade around acting like they know some ****, when they don't.


If someone as making tylenol caplets during off hours in the lab, brought them home and gave them to their kids, what are they giving their kids? Is it not tylenol? Is it some kind of fake tylenol because they didn't buy it from the store? It came right from the lab and there's no receipt from CVS, so it must be some fake medicine.... Oh yeah.. Thats what it is...

Like, its getting redundant with you guys.

 

[trethousandgt]

Reading comprehension 101
And whats crazy is, I don't even own a pair of these so called "fakes"

I just hate when people parade around acting like they know some ****, when they don't.


If someone as making tylenol caplets during off hours in the lab, brought them home and gave them to their kids, what are they giving their kids? Is it not tylenol? Is it some kind of fake tylenol because they didn't buy it from the store? It came right from the lab and there's no receipt from CVS, so it must be some fake medicine.... Oh yeah.. Thats what it is...

Like, its getting redundant with you guys. Common sense is rare these days cotdamn.

WOW.


Im certain you know much more about counterfeits than the New York Times, MIT, and all the other sources I've cited.