EDIT-How skilled is Lebron James?

[bostonmarc]

So looking back as the original poster maybe I should have worded this differently. How SKILLED do you think Lebron James is? Not how big/strong/athletic, but how skilled is he? I feel like I can easily name 20 players who are more skilled. Not better atheletes, or better players but more skilled. My thought is that yes he will go down as an all time great I am sure. But I just don't feel like he has an interest in developing his skill set as long as he can dominate physically. So I ask NT, how SKILLED is Lebron?

 

[kash55]

I don't know. It's not that big of a deal to get into it with such detail.

 

[doublejs07]

20 or 30 years from now what will seperate him from Dominique Wilkins? Or Shawn Kemp? Or Vince Carter? All are good players but they arent mentioned in the top 20 NBA players of all time, but many people seem to think Lebron could be the greatest ever.


No offense, but Lebron at this point EARLY in his career, Lebron is already seperate from Nique, Kemp, and Carter...how you lumped Kemp/Carter w. Nique isstrange....I don't have a lot of type to type on this now, but I'll get into it later on.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by bostonmarc

1. Skill vs. Athleticism
There is no doubt that Lebron is a freak. He may go down as the most incredible athlete to ever play in the NBA. But how skilled is he? I know he is young, but 7 years in the NBA later how much does he rely upon his athletic ability to do things on the court? How much has his skill set improved since his rookie year? Obviously he is going to use his body to his advantage but when the day comes he is not as explosive what happens then? I hate to play the "what if" game, but if he has the body and athleticism of a guy like John Salmons or Luke Walton? How good would he be? He has incredible passing skills and this year he looks to have improved his outside shooting, but will he always be a guy who just relys upon his size and athleticism?

Do not devalue his passing skills because that's part of what makes him such a once-in-a-generation type talent. That is a SKILL and he has itat a level that many in the league do not. I see drastic differences in Lebron's game from his rookie year to now. Idk how anyone else can't either.You can't play the what if game. In this type of discussion, it doesn't make sense. You can't just take away what makes that person special.Don't handicap an argument.

2. Championships
Now I know he has many years left to play but lets just assume a couple things for a minute. I do not think he will win a championship this season in Cleveland because I dont think he has the supporting cast to do it. And lets assume he leaves Cleveland and goes to the Knicks or someplace similar. I dont think he will be able to win a title for at least another 3-4 years while his new team builds around him. There are a couple of better quality teams that could afford him, but would he take a pay cut? So now he will be in his early 30's and not getting any younger. The amount of miles he is putting on his body to keep his team competative on a night to night basis may catch up with him earlier them some. I think he will be giving up his prime years by signing with a team like the Knicks but its just my opinion.
I, for one, have never understood why championships make Person A > Person B. Championships are a reflection of the player, but moreso theTEAM.

3. Is basketball his # 1 priority?
I know a lot of pro athletes in this era are different then they once were. Many seem to use basketball as a vehicle into other things. He has already stated he wants to be a billion dollar brand, and I honestly dont see basketball as his number 1 priority. I feel like he thinks he is bigger then the game. He constantly complains about every call ( i know alot of players do). He didn't want to shake Howards hand last year. How about the Nike camp video tape? He spent this off season touring China then promoting a movie and a book. They said he had a trainer with him every day, but were they working on basketball skills, or lifting weights? He is unsure if he is going to play on Team USA this summer because he will be filming a movie in Las Vegas. Is he busy talking about his friend getting beat up by a football player in the media? Hopefully he will learn something about being a pop icon from Shaq. Do you think Shaq is really proud of Shazamm? Or his rap albums? Or do you think Shaq wishes he worked on his game a little more in the off season. maybe practice free throws? Is Lebron happy being as good as he is, or does he want to be the best ever and willing to put the work into accomplish that?
And as for the questions in this section, I'm really not sure what more you want him to do. I am not a Bron-guy but I am glad he is doing alot of the things he is involved in. Aside from the Crawford video sh-. That's inescusable. What does not shaking Howard's hand have to do w/basketball not being a high priority? What does the video have to do w/ it? What does speaking on his friend getting slapped have to do w/ it? Absolutelynothing. I'm not even sure what exactly you're trying to get at here. You're all over the place. Everything he does does not and should not berelated to basketball.

20 or 30 years from now what will seperate him from Dominique Wilkins? Or Shawn Kemp? Or Vince Carter? All are good players but they arent mentioned in the top 20 NBA players of all time, but many people seem to think Lebron could be the greatest ever.
I'm honestly finding it hard to believe that you coached at such a high level, but do not see what seperates Bron from Nique, Kemp or Wince,who were all good-great in their own right. There is a disconnect somewhere.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

You just picked 3 athletic dudes and compared them all together. LeBron is easily the best player in the L right now, and he is still getting better. How greatwill he be, only time will tell.

 

[im not you]

There's so much wrong with that thesis I don't even have the time and type up a rebuttal.

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

You just picked 3 athletic dudes and compared them all together. LeBron is easily the best most talented/gifted player in the L right now, and he is still getting better. How great will he be, only time will tell.

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

20 or 30 years from now what will seperate him from Dominique Wilkins? Or Shawn Kemp? Or Vince Carter? All are good players but they arent mentioned in the top 20 NBA players of all time, but many people seem to think Lebron could be the greatest ever.

No offense, but Lebron at this point EARLY in his career, Lebron is already seperate from Nique, Kemp, and Carter...how you lumped Kemp/Carter w. Nique is strange....I don't have a lot of type to type on this now, but I'll get into it later on.

Kemp( one of my all time favorites) being an athlete who was just ahead of his time.Not overally skilled but could dominate a game on boths ends of the floorwith his athletics ability. There was nobody in the league like him when he played with size and athletic ability. Vince- crazy athlete and averaging 24 ppgover his career. Would be higher is not for injury IMO

 

[crazy dav0]

i agree w/ most of what dre said ...

his passing is ridiculous
problems w/ his game ... no post game, weak jumper
HE HAS TO WIN CHIPS ... in basketball usually THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME FINDS A WAY TO ONE ....

The vince / nique / kemp argument was weak ...

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by Im Not You

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

You just picked 3 athletic dudes and compared them all together. LeBron is easily the best most talented/gifted player in the L right now, and he is still getting better. How great will he be, only time will tell.

I agree with that statement 100%

I wrote out the long thing just to tell you what a couple of people and I discussed over the weekend. I could have wrote one sentence but wanted to give you alittle bit of my thought process

DOES HE HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE THE BEST PLAYER EVER LIKE MANY PEOPLE BELIEV HE COULD BE?

 

[blazers21ntnp]

- He's one of the most skilled players in the league, that's why he's successful. He's a freak athlete, but there are many freak athletes outthere... many don't succeed in the L.

- Let's start worrying about championships if he doesn't have any 10 years from now at age 35

- Shaq isn't proud of his one rap album that went platinum and his two rap albums that went gold? I'd beg to differ. Since the game really took off inthe '90s, the games best players will always be venturing outside of basketball for another means of income; that's just the way it is. It doesn'ttake away from their game, and if they have the opportunity to make money, especially in the current economic climate, why not? And it's not like LeBron isskipping the Olympics and isn't the only player from the '08 squad thinking of sitting out this summer.

- And Dominique, Kemp & VC? I'm sorry, but I have to laugh at that...

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by bostonmarc

Originally Posted by Im Not You

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

You just picked 3 athletic dudes and compared them all together. LeBron is easily the best most talented/gifted player in the L right now, and he is still getting better. How great will he be, only time will tell.

DOES HE HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE THE BEST PLAYER EVER LIKE MANY PEOPLE BELIEV HE COULD BE?

Certainly. It's just certain intangible elements that I personally believes comes with experience that he doesn't have in his game...thata certain SG in Los Angeles does. I believe Lebron will get them eventually.

One particular facet of Lebron's game that I'm not exactly sure why in year 7 he still doesn't have...is a back to the basket post game. Especiallyat his size.

 

[cb94]

I've never heard that point of view before. Thanks man. [/sarcasm]

Here's counter number one... got a hunnid 50.... do you honestly doubt Lebron won't continue to be a freak of nature for the next 10years or so? I mean look at Kobe. He's still way more athletic than most athletes. Well, Lebron seems to be just as driven, and he'sway more athletic than Kobe was at his peak, not to mention stronger, more muscular, and more explosive (crazy, right?). So ssuming LBJ'sathleticism does taper off...at like age 47

.. will it even make a difference how skilled he really is? Look at Shaq. Dude's finally a bum...at 36..big whoop! He earned his pension already. You can't tell him @#+%. And if skill does make the difference, do you REALLY think he won't evolve his gameto that next level? I'd say the odds are in his favor Jack.

 

[i nasmatic i]

LeBron will have the individual accolades to be in the discussion as the greatest player ever, but I'm not sure he'll have the team success compared toJordan, Magic, etc (it's not fair, but we hold the GOAT to higher standards).

 

[yungmatt]

Only thing that can/will keep him from being the GOAT is lack of championships

 

[iknowrap]

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better postgame than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in theleauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far astalent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that Ifeel Kobe when he is finish legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by Blazers21NTNP

- He's one of the most skilled players in the league, that's why he's successful. He's a freak athlete, but there are many freak athletes out there... many don't succeed in the L.

See to be honest I am not sure that he is. Just in his draft class alone, on a pure skill basis I am not sure he has the skill level of Melo,Wade, or maybe even Bosh. He is a supreme athlete and has incredible strength but how many times have you been "wow'ed" with his footwork. And ina half court set he seems to really have to work hard for everything he gets. Maybe its because his supporting cast isnt as talented. Might just be my opinionand I could very well be wrong You cannot take Lebrons body away from him but I just seems to me like the skill level isnt where it should be

 

[blazers21ntnp]

Originally Posted by bostonmarc

Originally Posted by Blazers21NTNP

- He's one of the most skilled players in the league, that's why he's successful. He's a freak athlete, but there are many freak athletes out there... many don't succeed in the L.

See to be honest I am not sure that he is. Just in his draft class alone, on a pure skill basis I am not sure he has the skill level of Melo, Wade, or maybe even Bosh. He is a supreme athlete and has incredible strength but how many times have you been "wow'ed" with his footwork. And in a half court set he seems to really have to work hard for everything he gets. Maybe its because his supporting cast isnt as talented. Might just be my opinion and I could very well be wrong You cannot take Lebrons body away from him but I just seems to me like the skill level isnt where it should be

This, and because of his coach. I agree that he has to work hard for most of what he gets (I'd also argue Wade does, as well), but I think ithas a lot to do with his supporting cast & "coach", rather than his lack of intelligence or skill.

You watch Mike, Kobe, Carmelo and the majority of work is done before they get the ball. The do the work against their defender to get to a spot on the floorwhere they want the ball, then go from there. I'd love to see him have a coach who would discipline him to not dribble the ball up on the majority ofnon-fastbreak possessions, or a point guard who is ballsy enough to take the ball out of his hands and direct him as to what to do off the ball.

You watch LeBron & Wade; they're virtually going 1-on-5 every possession because they have the ball in their hands for the entire shot clock, making itsomewhat easy for the defense to be effective.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better post game than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in the leauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far as talent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that I feel Kobe when he is finish legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

No. That's flat out laughable on MANY levels....your whole statement is all ove rthe place.

 

[edword]

i think he peeked last year in terms of "DOMINANCE" i mean the crab dribble still there the jumpshot still look like mines in middle school and histeam somehow isnt getting it down with shaq,mo and delonte. he's gonna love the knicks nextt year -_____- i see carmelo taking the mvp , when an alreadyall star player goes through the off season melo had it only brings success

 

[iknowrap]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better post game than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in the leauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far as talent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that I feel Kobe, when he is finished... legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

No. That's flat out laughable on MANY levels....your whole statement is all ove rthe place.

wow really...tell me where im wrong tho...penny was being compared to magic when he came in the game so what are u sayin really..."could have been"chief not was...n if u dont respect GP's post game u must have never seen him play or not follow that im sayin the dude actually had one, which lebronreally kinda doesnt...

other than that what are u saying...

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

How good IS Lebron James, well let's think outside the box a little to illustrate this question. Iquote Idan Ravin...he is a special skills trainer for some notable NBA players including LBJ and Chris Paul. He says "Lebron doesn't have a go-to-movein isolation, doesn't handle the ball exceptionally well, and cannot shoot consistently". Yet with these shortcomings and a few more of note dude isstill arguably the top one or two basketball players in the league right now.

To sum it up, Lebron still has some pretty obvious weaknesses in his game but is still by and far top 2 in the league. Ifhe develops a TRUE post game (he would save energy AND he can already pass very well out of the post), and a more consistent mid-range shot (right now he iseither drive all the way, or shoot the spotty 3-pointer), then he can be one of the best ever. But if he never develops all that he is still one of the besttalents the NBA has ever seen.

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by EdWord

i mean the crab dribble still there the jumpshot still look like mines in middle school

 

[yungmatt]

No one in the history of the NBA can be compared to LeBron

 

[edword]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

You just picked 3 athletic dudes and compared them all together. LeBron is easily the best player in the L right now, and he is still getting better. How great will he be, only time will tell.

in vinces first year he won rookie of the year,second year was dropping A.I n kobe numbers while competing,third year takes his team deep into the playoffs fora crazy game 7(even a 50 point perfomance in the eastern conference finals) ..all while making just as many or more dunk reels than lebron.he eventually gotmore and more frustrated with his team and has been floating around ever since.