EDIT-How skilled is Lebron James?

[gameupz]

He will definitely win a championship before he retires so that would put him in the elite by the end of his career. So better then barkley, ewing, malone,stockton, etc all the greats that didn't win a ring. If he didn't win a ring, I would say he would be the best player to not win one...and no I'mnot crowning him early, he's proven

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

How good IS Lebron James, well let's think outside the box a little to illustrate this question. I quote Idan Ravin...he is a special skills trainer for some notable NBA players including LBJ and Chris Paul. He says "Lebron doesn't have a go-to-move in isolation, doesn't handle the ball exceptionally well, and cannot shoot consistently". Yet with these shortcomings and a few more of note dude is still arguably the top one or two basketball players in the league right now.

To sum it up, Lebron still has some pretty obvious weaknesses in his game but is still by and far top 2 in the league. If he develops a TRUE post game (he would save energy AND he can already pass very well out of the post), and a more consistent mid-range shot (right now he is either drive all the way, or shoot the spotty 3-pointer), then he can be one of the best ever. But if he never develops all that he is still one of the best talents the NBA has ever seen.

EXACTLY....My original post was long winded I know, I just wanted to let people know some of the points we discussed. Bottom line, if he put in the work youwould not be able to touch him. I just dont know if he is happy being as good as he is, or is he willing to do more?

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better post game than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in the leauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far as talent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that I feel Kobe, when he is finished... legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

No. That's flat out laughable on MANY levels....your whole statement is all ove rthe place.

wow really...tell me where im wrong tho...penny was being compared to magic when he came in the game so what are u sayin really..."could have been" chief not was...n if u dont respect GP's post game u must have never seen him play or not follow that im sayin the dude actually had one, which lebron really kinda doesnt...

other than that what are u saying...

Even in his young career when healthy (and with Shaq), Penny NEVER had the kind of impact that LeBron has had since day 1. Saying Penny COULD HAVE BEEN likeLebron is a joke. You can't even make that a hypothetical, because the REALITY was dude was injured for the majority of his career. You bring up theMagic comparison...well, Penny is in good company with Reece Gaines and Shaun Livingston. Penny did put up nice numbers before the injury bug hit him, but youare seriously slighting Lebron by even putting Penny in the same breath. There is no comparison between the two.

Why wouldn't I respect GP's post game...him and Mark Jackson had two of the best I've seen from the 1 position. The difference is, Lebron can dowhat he wants, and WHEN he wants with the ball. He doesn't have to pick his spots and look for a mismatch. He's so much bigger and stronger than justabout everyone in the league, he can get to the rim at will....he could and SHOULD post up more, but he's dominant at what he's doing. Even with hislimited time in the post (compared to what GP did), I'd take him 10/10 times over GP if it came down to selecting someone to post up and try to get abucket....

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by bostonmarc

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

How good IS Lebron James, well let's think outside the box a little to illustrate this question. I quote Idan Ravin...he is a special skills trainer for some notable NBA players including LBJ and Chris Paul. He says "Lebron doesn't have a go-to-move in isolation, doesn't handle the ball exceptionally well, and cannot shoot consistently". Yet with these shortcomings and a few more of note dude is still arguably the top one or two basketball players in the league right now.

To sum it up, Lebron still has some pretty obvious weaknesses in his game but is still by and far top 2 in the league. If he develops a TRUE post game (he would save energy AND he can already pass very well out of the post), and a more consistent mid-range shot (right now he is either drive all the way, or shoot the spotty 3-pointer), then he can be one of the best ever. But if he never develops all that he is still one of the best talents the NBA has ever seen.

EXACTLY....My original post was long winded I know, I just wanted to let people know some of the points we discussed. Bottom line, if he put in the work you would not be able to touch him. I just dont know if he is happy being as good as he is, or is he willing to do more?

Thing is bostonmarc LBJ has never really been down in the dumps so to speak for an extendedperiod of time. He has always been good and at the top of his game from the second he came into the league. I can honestly see how he might lack a littlehunger to work on the little things to be the best. Heck, he hasn't even had a major injury yet.

Ok now take Kobe for example...he didn't start right away...the whole world came down on him after those airballs inthe Utah series, and he was always playing in the shadow of Snaq-Foo(d). He wasn't at all fat off of success, he had to prove himself in a far more tryingmanner than LBJ, so his hunger helped drive him to become who he is today...you can tell by that trademark competitiveness.

Jury is still out though, remember it took MJ #23 almost 7 years to win the first title, and that was afterhe revamped his game to include a better mid range arsenal, and including his teammates more.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

only time will tell...he does have a chance to be one of the best obviously

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by bostonmarc

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

How good IS Lebron James, well let's think outside the box a little to illustrate this question. I quote Idan Ravin...he is a special skills trainer for some notable NBA players including LBJ and Chris Paul. He says "Lebron doesn't have a go-to-move in isolation, doesn't handle the ball exceptionally well, and cannot shoot consistently". Yet with these shortcomings and a few more of note dude is still arguably the top one or two basketball players in the league right now.

To sum it up, Lebron still has some pretty obvious weaknesses in his game but is still by and far top 2 in the league. If he develops a TRUE post game (he would save energy AND he can already pass very well out of the post), and a more consistent mid-range shot (right now he is either drive all the way, or shoot the spotty 3-pointer), then he can be one of the best ever. But if he never develops all that he is still one of the best talents the NBA has ever seen.

EXACTLY....My original post was long winded I know, I just wanted to let people know some of the points we discussed. Bottom line, if he put in the work you would not be able to touch him. I just dont know if he is happy being as good as he is, or is he willing to do more?

Thing is bostonmarc LBJ has never really been down in the dumps so to speak for an extended period of time. He has always been good and at the top of his game from the second he came into the league. I can honestly see how he might lack a little hunger to work on the little things to be the best. Heck, he hasn't even had a major injury yet.

Ok now take Kobe for example...he didn't start right away...the whole world came down on him after those airballs in the Utah series, and he was always playing in the shadow of Snaq-Foo(d). He wasn't at all fat off of success, he had to prove himself in a far more trying manner than LBJ, so his hunger helped drive him to become who he is today...you can tell by that trademark competitiveness.

Jury is still out though, remember it took MJ #23 almost 7 years to win the first title, and that was after he revamped his game to include a better mid range arsenal, and including his teammates more.

All your points are great. I guess I see it as almost frustrating, even though I am not a Lebron fan. I remember watching Shaq in his prime, and thought tomyself that if he would give up acting and rapping and maybe work on his game and especially free throws, the could have averaged 40 ppg for maybe 5 or 6seasons. He had no real mid range game to speak of, couldnt shoot the ball outside 6-8 ft and the only way you could stop him was at the free throw line. Givehim half of the skill set that David Robinson had and I have no doubt he would get 37-40 ppg

 

[marionthebarberian]

even if people dont want to admit it, if he keeps it up, he will be lock for top 3.

 

[iknowrap]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better post game than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in the leauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far as talent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that I feel Kobe, when he is finished... legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

No. That's flat out laughable on MANY levels....your whole statement is all ove rthe place.

wow really...tell me where im wrong tho...penny was being compared to magic when he came in the game so what are u sayin really..."could have been" chief not was...n if u dont respect GP's post game u must have never seen him play or not follow that im sayin the dude actually had one, which lebron really kinda doesnt...

other than that what are u saying...

Even in his young career when healthy (and with Shaq), Penny NEVER had the kind of impact that LeBron has had since day 1. Saying Penny COULD HAVE BEEN like Lebron is a joke. You can't even make that a hypothetical, because the REALITY was dude was injured for the majority of his career. You bring up the Magic comparison...well, Penny is in good company with Reece Gaines and Shaun Livingston. Penny did put up nice numbers before the injury bug hit him, but you are seriously slighting Lebron by even putting Penny in the same breath. There is no comparison between the two.

Why wouldn't I respect GP's post game...him and Mark Jackson had two of the best I've seen from the 1 position. The difference is, Lebron can do what he wants, and WHEN he wants with the ball. He doesn't have to pick his spots and look for a mismatch. He's so much bigger and stronger than just about everyone in the league, he can get to the rim at will....he could and SHOULD post up more, but he's dominant at what he's doing. Even with his limited time in the post (compared to what GP did), I'd take him 10/10 times over GP if it came down to selecting someone to post up and try to get a bucket....

ok i disagree with u on the whole penny hardaway stance...but thats just whateva...

but end of the game do u not see how frustrating it is to watch lebron with ball in hand at the top of the key dribbling waiting to drive to the goal and hopeand pray he can will his way to bank a lay up off glass?!?....all im sayin is for this guy to improve, the PG or whoever should be able to take that ball fromthe top of the key have lebron on either side low post and trust lebron gonna make that shot whether its a fader or whatever...and right now bron doesnt havethat...he needs that...its evident he needs that...the refs as we all have seen are not gonna blow the whistle just cuz he is driving to the goal end ofgame...dude rarely puts his back to the basket...all the greats have done this and succeeded...u think he shud have a pass cuz he can drive to the holelike no one we have ever seen before?

 

[beallsfinest]

The problem with this is that people expect him to get better because he still isn't going to be 25 for another month or so(I think). He is arguably thebest player in the game and will go down as one of the greatest ever (at least). As an individual, I doubt he gets much better and I don't think peopleshould be continuing to judge him off of stats because his numbers probably won't get any better. Once he wins a championship, there will be no morequestions about him. And he will be a dominant player until the day he retires.

 

[quik1987]

Bosh and Lebron don't belong in the same sentence. You lost all your credibility. This is coming from a Toronto fan. Considering he's breaking all the"youngest to....." records held by Kobe Bryant, who I hate, but have to acknowledge as one of the greatest players, how could Lebron not be on hisway to legend status.

 

[nychiphophippo]

why the hell did i waste all my time reading this entire thread SMH

 

[yeeupp]

He may be on his way.. interesting piece i found on hoopsworld.com


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Player A[/color]: At the age of 23, "Player A" had scored 5,762 points (connectingon a total of 24 three-pointers), grabbed 1,028 rebounds, and dished out 911 assists in his career to that point.
He had won a total of one playoff game, never advancing past the first round.

Player B: At the completion of his Age 23 season, "Player B" had tallied 10,689 points(including 510 three-pointers made), hauled in 2,694 rebounds, and racked up 2,572 assists.
He had 26 career playoff wins under his belt, and had already carried his team to an NBA Finals appearance.

'Player A' is Michael Jordan.

'Player B'? That would be LeBron James.

Edit- i dont want to compare but just try viewing the article as how good of a start he had..

 

[eneyekayee]

Originally Posted by YEEUPP

He may be on his way.. interesting piece i found on hoopsworld.com


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Player A[/color]: At the age of 23, "Player A" had scored 5,762 points (connecting on a total of 24 three-pointers), grabbed 1,028 rebounds, and dished out 911 assists in his career to that point.
He had won a total of one playoff game, never advancing past the first round.

Player B: At the completion of his Age 23 season, "Player B" had tallied 10,689 points (including 510 three-pointers made), hauled in 2,694 rebounds, and racked up 2,572 assists.
He had 26 career playoff wins under his belt, and had already carried his team to an NBA Finals appearance.

'Player A' is Michael Jordan.

'Player B'? That would be LeBron James.

Edit- i dont want to compare but just try viewing the article as how good of a start he had..

You are completely dismissing MJ's time @ UNC though.

I don't see Bron Bron getting 6 titles no matter if he stays or leaves, so people won't anoint him the G.O.A.T., even if he deserves it in the end IMO(he's got a @%$+ load of work to do)...

And OP, I'm

@ the 'Nique/Kemp/Carter comparisons.

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by YEEUPP

He may be on his way.. interesting piece i found on hoopsworld.com


Player A: At the age of 23, "Player A" had scored 5,762 points (connecting on a total of 24 three-pointers), grabbed 1,028 rebounds, and dished out 911 assists in his career to that point.
He had won a total of one playoff game, never advancing past the first round.

Player B: At the completion of his Age 23 season, "Player B" had tallied 10,689 points (including 510 three-pointers made), hauled in 2,694 rebounds, and racked up 2,572 assists.
He had 26 career playoff wins under his belt, and had already carried his team to an NBA Finals appearance.

'Player A' is Michael Jordan.

'Player B'? That would be LeBron James.

Edit- i dont want to compare but just try viewing the article as how good of a start he had..

Only problem is Jordan was 23 in his second season Lebron was in his 4th season

 

[goldmember]

Originally Posted by YEEUPP

He may be on his way.. interesting piece i found on hoopsworld.com


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Player A[/color]: At the age of 23, "Player A" had scored 5,762 points (connecting on a total of 24 three-pointers), grabbed 1,028 rebounds, and dished out 911 assists in his career to that point.
He had won a total of one playoff game, never advancing past the first round.

Player B: At the completion of his Age 23 season, "Player B" had tallied 10,689 points (including 510 three-pointers made), hauled in 2,694 rebounds, and racked up 2,572 assists.
He had 26 career playoff wins under his belt, and had already carried his team to an NBA Finals appearance.

'Player A' is Michael Jordan.

'Player B'? That would be LeBron James.

Edit- i dont want to compare but just try viewing the article as how good of a start he had..

You do know Lebron came out of high school at age of what 17-18?

 

[bostonmarc]

So looking back as the original poster maybe I should have worded this differently. How SKILLED do you think Lebron James is? Not how big/strong/athletic, buthow skilled is he? I feel like I can easily name 20 players who are more skilled. Not better atheletes, or better players but more skilled. My thought is thatyes he will go down as an all time great I am sure. But I just don't feel like he has an interest in developing his skill set as long as he can dominatephysically. So I ask NT, how SKILLED is Lebron?

 

[im not you]

/\ Go ahead and name 20

 

[al3xis]

I feel like I can easily name 20 players who are more skilled

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Lock this up

 

[westcoastsfinest]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

I feel like I can easily name 20 players who are more skilled

well this guy is def top 20

 

[eneyekayee]

OP originally said he coached college hoops...

 

[outacontrol music]

 

[bostonmarc]

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

OP originally said he coached college hoops...

Actually I never said I coached college hoops...And I wont waste my time naming 20 players...Lock the thread if you want mods
And by the way, here is the article from Sports illustrated where Idan Ravin- proffessional trainer who has worked with countless NBA players comments onlebrons skills
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/10/20/idan.ravin/index.html

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by IKnowRap

Lebron is what Penny Hardaway could have been...the only difference is he is stronger but has a weaker jumper. I think Gary Payton and Penny had a better post game than Lebron has right now....Lebron just has to get the rings man, he is looking like a man child out there because lets be for real these guys in the leauge skill level imo is no where near what it was growing up...and im only 24.

Its very hard to elevate his game in the areas he lacks cuz his team always lets him down I can tell right now, he is in the same postion as last year far as talent on that team....it will be no way to perfect that jumper like Mike did or Kobe has done at the rate he is going...

His legend will be ill say equal to Larry Bird when he is done...I wanted to say Magic but thats giving to much....and Im sayin this openly admiting that I feel Kobe, when he is finished... legend will be second to only MJ...or tied with only a handful

No. That's flat out laughable on MANY levels....your whole statement is all ove rthe place.

wow really...tell me where im wrong tho...penny was being compared to magic when he came in the game so what are u sayin really..."could have been" chief not was...n if u dont respect GP's post game u must have never seen him play or not follow that im sayin the dude actually had one, which lebron really kinda doesnt...

other than that what are u saying...

Even in his young career when healthy (and with Shaq), Penny NEVER had the kind of impact that LeBron has had since day 1. Saying Penny COULD HAVE BEEN like Lebron is a joke. You can't even make that a hypothetical, because the REALITY was dude was injured for the majority of his career. You bring up the Magic comparison...well, Penny is in good company with Reece Gaines and Shaun Livingston. Penny did put up nice numbers before the injury bug hit him, but you are seriously slighting Lebron by even putting Penny in the same breath. There is no comparison between the two.

Why wouldn't I respect GP's post game...him and Mark Jackson had two of the best I've seen from the 1 position. The difference is, Lebron can do what he wants, and WHEN he wants with the ball. He doesn't have to pick his spots and look for a mismatch. He's so much bigger and stronger than just about everyone in the league, he can get to the rim at will....he could and SHOULD post up more, but he's dominant at what he's doing. Even with his limited time in the post (compared to what GP did), I'd take him 10/10 times over GP if it came down to selecting someone to post up and try to get a bucket....

penny made the all nba first team in his 2nd and 3rd years in the league


when there were tons of all-time greats in their prime


and came up third in mvp voting in in 95-96

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Skills are not the essence of his game. LeBron is for SF what 1999-2004 Shaq was for C. And when people said that Shaq was the most dominant force in the game,they weren't talking about his skills. Noone is denying that LeBron relies a lot on his physique. With that said, his skills are higher than some of hishaters like to admit. His court vision is superb - the best in the league for a non-PG. And he's not a bad shooter AT ALL contrary to the negative rep hegets. Last season, Kobe shot .351 from the 3-point line on 4.1 3-point FGAs per game. LeBron shot .344 on 4.7 attempts, even though he was a more central focusof the opponent's defenses. And yet he constantly had a rep for not being able to make a shot.