ELECTION DAY 2008:........... Barack Obama, the next President of the United States of America

[willinc]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860


2012 baby.
Obama will only last 4 years, he better not get to cozy in the oval office.

I still see a few sprinkles of salt.

 

[essential1]

I don't know TBone, if he can get the country going in the right direction it will almost be a no contest in 2012 because it will be the same thing interms of voter enthusiasm in 4 years because it is still the same guy running

If he doesn't do anything and we are stuck in the same rut he will lose

But like I said if he makes some drastic improvements, a republican in 2012 has no chance.


But this is all hypothetically so who knows what will happen.

 

[j paycheck]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

2012 baby.
Obama will only last 4 years, he better not get to cozy in the oval office.

Wonder if McCain will be around?

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Osh Kosh Bosh, don't forget him being accused of being an elitist.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by Essential1

I don't know TBone, if he can get the country going in the right direction it will almost be a no contest in 2012 because it will be the same thing in terms of voter enthusiasm in 4 years because it is still the same guy running
If he doesn't do anything and we are stuck in the same rut he will lose
But like I said if he makes some drastic improvements, a republican in 2012 has no chance.

Of course....
Like I've said before though, this is going to be a hard 4 years.... (for whoever wins) at least to start off, maybe after a couple years it'll getbetter/easier.
And in 2012 we should have a better ticket then McCain/Palin, but we'll see.

 

[sekim2detcidda]

HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT TO SEE COME NOVEMBER 4TH IN THE BOOTH:

I did my civic duties yesterday...

 

[harlemtothebronx]

@The pic.

Espioage status.

 

[sekim2detcidda]

^had to they were strict about pics...but I had NT in the back of my mind

 

[deuce king]

I think we're entering the Rush Limbaugh era of prejudice/racism. I rather have people come out and say they're racist rather than be hidden.


Exactly and that is what we are seeing right now from the Republican Party. We are seeing the true feelings of the base of the Republican Party from any andall type of racists. It's sad, but this is what these people are about and even worse, this is the negative type of behavior that they teach their kids,so the racism continues and continues for the next particular Republican in line to vote or the next particular Republican running for office. That's notto say that if your a conservative that this applies to you necessarily, just for the party that you tend to back.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by wanksta23

Tbone, what state do you live in?

JW..

Good question... this should give some insight actually for people.

Washington currently. Always going blue for the prez

But we should have/almost had a Republican governor last election (took 5 recounts to go from Repub up to Dem up

) & he might win it this time (it's a dead heat right now)
And the United States congressman that represents where I live is a Republican.
And the local Washington State representative (for the WA state senate) is a Republican.
So yeah

It's roughly 55-60% Republican, 40-45% Democrat where I live..... upper/middle class, 88% white, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]average[/color] house price in city where I live is $600,000-650,000

(zillow.com as reference)

Seattle ain't far away though, and if you want to talk about REALLY liberal

Making some of you seem moderate

Crazy white people*

Word to WTO riots (http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=N)


*FYI: Seattle in 2000 = 70% white, 13% Asian, 8.5% black

.................

Wealth redistribution FTW.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by wanksta23

Tbone, what state do you live in?

JW..

Good question... this should give some insight actually for people.

Washington currently. Always going blue for the prez

But we should have/almost had a Republican governor last election (took 5 recounts to go from Repub up to Dem up

) & he might win it this time (it's a dead heat right now)
And the United States congressman that represents where I live is a Republican.
And the local Washington State representative (for the WA state senate) is a Republican.
So yeah

It's roughly 55-60% Republican, 40-45% Democrat where I live..... upper/middle class, 88% white, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]average[/color] house price in city where I live is $600,000-650,000

(zillow.com as reference)

Seattle ain't far away though, and if you want to talk about REALLY liberal

Making some of you seem moderate

Crazy white people*

Word to WTO riots (http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=N)


*FYI: Seattle in 2000 = 70% white, 13% Asian, 8.5% black

.................

Wealth redistribution FTW.

Sike.
My mom & step-dad that live in their expensive house both moved out when they were 18, both were poor, both paid for their own 4-year college, both haveworked HARD to get where they are. They've earned every cent they make.
They deserve all the money they earn & whatever they want to buy with that money.
But yet lets raise their taxes & take away their money....

Sure is an incentive to work really hard to make lots of $$$

 

[producedbythejuice]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by wanksta23

Tbone, what state do you live in?

JW..

Good question... this should give some insight actually for people.

Washington currently. Always going blue for the prez

But we should have/almost had a Republican governor last election (took 5 recounts to go from Repub up to Dem up

) & he might win it this time (it's a dead heat right now)
And the United States congressman that represents where I live is a Republican.
And the local Washington State representative (for the WA state senate) is a Republican.
So yeah

It's roughly 55-60% Republican, 40-45% Democrat where I live..... upper/middle class, 88% white, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]average[/color] house price in city where I live is $600,000-650,000

(zillow.com as reference)

Seattle ain't far away though, and if you want to talk about REALLY liberal

Making some of you seem moderate

Crazy white people*

Word to WTO riots (http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=N)


*FYI: Seattle in 2000 = 70% white, 13% Asian, 8.5% black

.................

Wealth redistribution FTW.

Sike.
My mom & step-dad that live in their expensive house both moved out when they were 18, both were poor, both paid for their own 4-year college, both have worked HARD to get where they are. They've earned every cent they make.
They deserve all the money they earn & whatever they want to buy with that money.
But yet lets raise their taxes & take away their money....

Sure is an incentive to work really hard to make lots of $$$

And working hard to get taxed slightly less and have it spent on a ridiculous war, and NOT fix the problems I care about is a good incentive?

You forget that people can overlook money when they have other interests... Republicans are too focused on taxes sometimes. But that's just me.

 

[vood99]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by ThrowedInDaGame

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by wanksta23

Tbone, what state do you live in?

JW..

Good question... this should give some insight actually for people.

Washington currently. Always going blue for the prez

But we should have/almost had a Republican governor last election (took 5 recounts to go from Repub up to Dem up

) & he might win it this time (it's a dead heat right now)
And the United States congressman that represents where I live is a Republican.
And the local Washington State representative (for the WA state senate) is a Republican.
So yeah

It's roughly 55-60% Republican, 40-45% Democrat where I live..... upper/middle class, 88% white, average house price in city where I live is $600,000-650,000

(zillow.com as reference)

Seattle ain't far away though, and if you want to talk about REALLY liberal

Making some of you seem moderate

Crazy white people*

Word to WTO riots (http://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=N href="http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=N" target=_blank>http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&q=WTO+seattle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=Nhttp://images.google.com/...ttle&start=0&sa=N)


*FYI: Seattle in 2000 = 70% white, 13% Asian, 8.5% black

.................

Wealth redistribution FTW.

Sike.
My mom & step-dad that live in their expensive house both moved out when they were 18, both were poor, both paid for their own 4-year college, both have worked HARD to get where they are. They've earned every cent they make.
They deserve all the money they earn & whatever they want to buy with that money.
But yet lets raise their taxes & take away their money....

Sure is an incentive to work really hard to make lots of $$$

Your folks really make more than a quarter million annually? And if they do, will an extra $1000 tax increase affect their lifestyle?

 

[marleysprotege]

its not the simple fact that 1000 wont affect them, its the fact that the government is holding it against them that they make more than that ... thegovernment is saying you know what because you worked so hard and made your money, you need to give back to those who didnt or havent yet ... that logic isflawed in my opinion

 

[tbone95860]

These polls are ALL OVER the place.... I don't know WHAT is going on. Is it really close? Is it notclose at all? Is it somewhere in the middle?


First we have polls showing it CLOSE....

[table][tr][td]GWU/Battleground[/td] [td]10/15 - 10/21[/td] [td]1000 LV[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td]49[/td] [td]47[/td] [td]Obama +2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Associated Press/GfK[/td] [td]10/16 - 10/20[/td] [td]800 LV[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]44[/td] [td]43[/td] [td]Obama +1[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]IBD/TIPP[/td] [td]10/17 - 10/21[/td] [td]1088 LV[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]46[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]Obama +3.7[/td] [/tr][/table]
Then we have polls showing it not very close at all....

[table][tr][td]NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl[/td] [td]10/17 - 10/20[/td] [td]1159 RV[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]52[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]Obama +10[/td] [/tr][tr][td]ABC News/Wash Post[/td] [td]10/17 - 10/20[/td] [td]1324 LV[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]53[/td] [td]44[/td] [td]Obama +9[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Gallup (Expanded)*[/td] [td]10/19 - 10/21[/td] [td]2299 LV[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]52[/td] [td]44[/td] [td]Obama +8[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Ipsos/McClatchy[/td] [td]10/16 - 10/20[/td] [td]773 LV[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]Obama +8[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Pew Research[/td] [td]10/16 - 10/19[/td] [td]2382 LV[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]53[/td] [td]39[/td] [td]Obama +14[/td] [/tr][/table]
Then we have polls somewhere in the middle....

[table][tr][td]CNN/Opinion Research[/td] [td]10/17 - 10/19[/td] [td]764 LV[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]51[/td] [td]46[/td] [td]Obama +5[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Hotline/FD[/td] [td]10/19 - 10/21[/td] [td]782 LV[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]47[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]Obama +5[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Gallup (Traditional)*[/td] [td]10/19 - 10/21[/td] [td]2384 LV[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]45[/td] [td]Obama +5[/td] [/tr][/table][table][tr][td]Rasmussen Reports[/td] [td]10/19 - 10/21[/td] [td]3000 LV[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]51[/td] [td]45[/td] [td]Obama +6[/td] [/tr][/table]

Then we have polls ABOVE the national average (roughly 6-7%) but yet their state polls do not match??....

[table][tr][td]Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby[/td] [td]10/19 - 10/21[/td] [td]1208 LV[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]52[/td] [td]42[/td] [td]Obama +10[/td] [/tr][/table]
Zogby with a 10% lead.... yet Zogby state polls in key swing states show the race really close & relatively decent for new results forMcCain... yet he's up 10% nationally in THEIR poll?

[table][tr][td]FOX News[/td] [td]10/20 - 10/21[/td] [td]936 LV[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]49[/td] [td]40[/td] [td]Obama +9[/td] [/tr][/table]
Fox News show it a 9% lead for Obama..... yet their new state polls are relatively decent for McCain... up in Ohio, up in Florida, only down 5% in Colorado,etc



Conclusion.... no one knows WHAT is going on.

My conclusions...
1. Obama's up nationally by I'd guess around 5%
2. Obama leads in the Electoral College by a LOT.... but in reality it's a little closer then people think (with Obama still having the necessary 270 edge)
3A. JUST GO VOTE!
3B. Election day should be quite interesting.

 

[downtown43]

whatever McCain is down by, add 3 to that. a LOT of people who are normally conservative will be voting third party.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

So taxing the poor more > taxing the rich? At this juncture, we NEED tax dollars. Who will feel it the least?

You tax the poor more, and they'll have less than nothing.

Not all poor people are lazy and didn't try hard. Just like some rich people we born into an easy situation and were coddled to success.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Sike.
My mom & step-dad that live in their expensive house both moved out when they were 18, both were poor, both paid for their own 4-year college, both have worked HARD to get where they are. They've earned every cent they make.
They deserve all the money they earn & whatever they want to buy with that money.
But yet lets raise their taxes & take away their money....

Sure is an incentive to work really hard to make lots of $$$

And working hard to get taxed slightly less and have it spent on a ridiculous war, and NOT fix the problems I care about is a good incentive?
You forget that people can overlook money when they have other interests... Republicans are too focused on taxes sometimes. But that's just me.

Huh? You don't work hard to get taxed slightly less.... you work hard because that's the type of person you are and thatleads sometimes to making a good amount of $.
What does the war have to do with anything?
What I'm saying is that the tax rate on rich people is too high because many/most of them worked hard to get where they are. They earned it the money theyreceive.

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

its not the simple fact that 1000 wont affect them, its the fact that the government is holding it against them that they make more than that ... the government is saying you know what because you worked so hard and made your money, you need to give back to those who didnt or havent yet ... that logic is flawed in my opinion

Exactly.
If you make a ton of money I don't think you should be responsible for giving hand outs at such a high % as Barack Obama wants. Rich people are alreadytaxed at a high level.... pay a LOT in taxes. People make it seem like rich people don't pay any taxes.
Not sure if people realize this.... but the revenue from taxing people comes ALMOST ENTIRELY from rich people.
Some poor people don't pay a dime, some may even get money back. And if people who make low incomes do pay taxes... it's not a huge amount.
So to make people who are rich out as bad people because they don't want to pay some ridiculous amount in taxes of money that THEY EARNED is absurd.

 

[718stylez]

i have electoral fatigue..my pops watches CNN like 24/7

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

So taxing the poor more > taxing the rich? At this juncture, we NEED tax dollars. Who will feel it the least?

You tax the poor more, and they'll have less than nothing.

Not all poor people are lazy and didn't try hard. Just like some rich people we born into an easy situation and were coddled to success.

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]According to an analysis by the[/color] Tax Foundation[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)], based on recently released data from the Internal Revenue Service for 2005:

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The top-earning 25% of taxpayers -- those with an Adjusted Gross Income ([/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]AGI[/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]) over $62,068 -- earned 67.5% of the nation's income, but they paid 86% of taxes collected.[/color][/color]

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]The top 1% of taxpayers(AGI over $364,657)earned about 21% of the nation's income, yet paid more than 39% of all federal income taxes collected.
[/color]
[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]That means the top 1% paid about the same amount of federal individual incometaxes as the bottom 95 percent, and the top 5% paid more than the bottom 95%.[/color]


Note: The top 1% paid 35.7% of all incometaxes in 2004, and 39.38% of all income taxes in 2005, suggesting the "rich" now pay more as share of all income taxes than before and the tax burdenon the rich has increased.

Yet the rich people are the worst & should pay even more!!!

*rolls eyes*

 

[sfn 155]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

These polls are ALL OVER the place.... I don't know WHAT is going on. Is it really close? Is it not close at all? Is it somewhere in the middle?

Some of those polls are registered voters, some are likely voters, and some over-sample certain areas(AP oversampled the South). The polls thatuse likely voters don't all use the same criteria.

 

[feelmode]

Was anyone watching Hardball right now??

 

[harlemtothebronx]

The wealth is distributed so unevenly in this country. Shouldn't taxing follow that?

The top 1% makes more than the bottom 50%.

And I didn't say "rich people are the worst". Slow your roll, buddy. I just feel that taxing the well off more is the better of our options.

When you're already struggling to keep a roof over your head, you can't afford higher taxes. So it's "I can't survive with higher taxesvs. "I can take a tax hit, but I earned this". Now which situation seems more dire? Which option makes more sense?

I understand your argument..but tax money is crucial. They have to go up somewhere.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

So taxing the poor more > taxing the rich? At this juncture, we NEED tax dollars. Who will feel it the least?

You tax the poor more, and they'll have less than nothing.

Not all poor people are lazy and didn't try hard. Just like some rich people we born into an easy situation and were coddled to success.

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]According to an analysis by the[/color] Tax Foundation[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)], based on recently released data from the Internal Revenue Service for 2005:

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The top-earning 25% of taxpayers -- those with an Adjusted Gross Income ([/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]AGI[/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]) over $62,068 -- earned 67.5% of the nation's income, but they paid 86% of taxes collected.[/color][/color]

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]The top 1% of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned about 21% of the nation's income, yet paid more than 39% of all federal income taxes collected.
[/color]
[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]That means the top 1% paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent, and the top 5% paid more than the bottom 95%.[/color]


Note: The top 1% paid 35.7% of all income taxes in 2004, and 39.38% of all income taxes in 2005, suggesting the "rich" now pay more as share of all income taxes than before and the tax burden on the rich has increased.

Yet the rich people are the worst & should pay even more!!!

*rolls eyes*

My response to you will be in your size 4 FONT.

Yes the rich pay more in taxes. Isn't that common sense? You make more money, you pay more in taxes. *rolling eyes*

However, a rich person with a taxable income of $1,000,000 taxed at the highest rate of 35% is still caking netting him 650,000 in disposable income. A poorperson with taxable income of 10,000 taxed at the lowest rate of 10% only has 9,000 of disposable income.

Whose more in need of a tax break? The taxpayer with the $650,000 disposable income that has health care, driving in a benz, living in a million dollar houseor that single mother with $9,000 disposable income with no health care, gets around in public transportation and lives in a studio apartment?

 

[qpitfighter]

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by ProducedByTheJuice

TBONE95860 wrote:

---

Sike.


My mom & step-dad that live in their expensive house both moved out when they were 18, both were poor, both paid for their own 4-year college, both have
worked HARD to get where they are. They've earned every cent they make.


They deserve all the money they earn & whatever they want to buy with that money.


But yet lets raise their taxes & take away their money....



Sure is an incentive to work really hard to make lots of $$$

And working hard to get taxed slightly less and have it spent on a ridiculous war, and NOT fix the problems I care about is a good incentive?


You forget that people can overlook money when they have other interests... Republicans are too focused on taxes sometimes. But that's just me.

Huh? You don't work hard to get taxed slightly less.... you work hard because that's the type of person you are and that leads sometimes to making a good amount of $.
What does the war have to do with anything?
What I'm saying is that the tax rate on rich people is too high because many/most of them worked hard to get where they are. They earned it the money they receive.

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

its
not the simple fact that 1000 wont affect them, its the fact that the
government is holding it against them that they make more than that ...
the
government is saying you know what because you worked so hard and made
your money, you need to give back to those who didnt or havent yet ...
that logic is
flawed in my opinion

Exactly.
If you make a ton of money I don't think you should be responsible for giving hand outs at such a high % as Barack Obama wants. Rich people are already taxed at a high level.... pay a LOT in taxes. People make it seem like rich people don't pay any taxes.
Not sure if people realize this.... but the revenue from taxing people comes ALMOST ENTIRELY from rich people.
Some poor people don't pay a dime, some may even get money back. And if people who make low incomes do pay taxes... it's not a huge amount.
So to make people who are rich out as bad people because they don't want to pay some ridiculous amount in taxes of money that THEY EARNED is absurd.




Dude. Rich people aren't the only ones who work hard. The tax rate on the rich is too high because they worked hard to get where they are? I don't getwhat you are trying to say. So who would you say doesn't work hard? The poor? the middle class? I'd like to know.
My mom has "worked hard" for 30 years. I've massaged her feet and legs after a full days work because she was in so much pain. She doesn'thave a pension plan from her job, or any kind of medical plan. She pays her taxes. A lot of the posts in this thread just pisses me off. This country runs onthe callaused hands and feet of the working poor. I don't want to hear how getting taxed more is going to hurt the super rich. So the rich might have toskip starbucks for a day, or wait another year before they give their kid a beamer. All this talk of entitlement just pissed me off.

And don't get it confused. I'm not poor, but I grew up poor. And while I don't make $250,000.00, I make about $100,000.00 and I get taxed a lot aswell being single with no dependents. The problem with this country is that there is no one to speak for the poor. And when someone comes to provide a voice,then the powers that be do everything they can to silence them.