ESPN chooses their Top 10 Greatest Shooting Guards of all time

[fyalady]

Really, Bean was NEVER at the top?
i'd say about a couple of years he was at the top.

dominated years: 2005, 2006, and maybe this year.

others all compared to TMAC. and AI had better years.

2006-07 ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
[table][tr][td]Position[/td] [td]Player, Team (1st Team Votes)[/td] [td]Points[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Forward[/td] [td]Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (125)[/td] [td]634[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Forward[/td] [td]Tim Duncan, San Antonio (94)[/td] [td]573[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Center[/td] [td]Amaré Stoudemire, Phoenix (36)[/td] [td]351[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Guard[/td] [td]Steve Nash, Phoenix (129)[/td] [td]645[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Guard[/td] [td]Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers (12[/td] [td]643[/td] [/tr][/table]

and trust me, you don't wanna see before 2001.
oh btw, lol@ sam cassell making second team in 2003.
not that he's not good or bad. just funny seein his name there.

 

[wstcoastgotti]

Oh my goodness, no one is arguing how good 24 is! We all get it.

He's good. Ok.

What some of you are not comprehending is that back in Jordan's day, there was NO TWO GUARD THAT COULD COMPARE TO HIM.

That's how dominant Jordan was.

And the point I am trying to make (and that ska summed up perfectly imo) is that Mamba has quite a few people who were either a. better than him or b. equal to him throughout his career.

So how can you call someone dominant for this decade when he was never CLEARLY the best player at his position for an extended stretch of time??

I don't want to hear excuses about Shaq being there or his team wasn't that good. Whatever.

Jordan DOMINATED whether he had a scrubby team (early years) or a great team (late years). Bad coaches. Good coaches. No Pippen (early years). During rule changes. Etc... Yet, throughout ALL of that, he was still CLEARLY the most dominant player.

Beanhead has NEVER achieved that for an EXTENDED length of time.
Wait... Nobody is arguing the Jordan aspect of it. Jordan is far and away the best 2 guard.

We are debating between 24 and West... and sure there are players that compare to 24 now, but thats cus the amount of talent and ability is far greater nowthan it was in West's era.

However, we already went through that part

[Ron Burgundy] Agree to Disagree [Ron Burgundy]

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

I'm guessing the only reason some people want to place West at #2 on list was because of how he dominated in his own era. Like someone said in this postearlier, you don't judge greatness based on how the player would do in different eras.

I don't think anyone here said West was a flat out better player than Kobe is...

 

[illmaticsoulchild]

Seriously, I hate threads like this. We have 20 year olds talking about how good (or overrated) players from the 70's were.

You see about 4 clips and 2 games from ESPN Classic and suddenly you can compare them to a player you've seen play 40+ games a season for 6+ years?

Yeah, that's a fair comparison. But of course, there are those wonderful stats, which of course are representative of a player's greatness right?



Just to add, I did not read a single reply in this thread, but I can guarantee some of the points I've made.

 

[kobe8is]

1. MJ
2. KB24

 

[classy freshman]

I have stated my case and I am done debating this topic. Jerry West and Kobe Bryant are both great players. I respect both men and hold both to the highestregard. Jerry West excelled against his competition, as has Kobe Bryant. While I feel that what Kobe has done in his era is more impressive due to how the gameand players have evolved, the greater talent pool in the league, the micro-management of todays players physical and mental preperation, at the end of the dayit is all still just my opinion. Even though the ESPN panel which included veteran sportswriters, former NBA players, and a hall of fame coach agree with me,there is still no way to really tell if we are right or not. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. So going back and forth trying to change someones"opinion" about what player is better can be difficult. I don't post too often in the s&t forum due to the time and work it takes sometimesto prove a point(I usually read NT while working), but I do read it often and I respect the opinions of 23ska909red02 and SHUGES. I didn't mean to come offwrong or offend anyone of you and if I did I apologize.

 

[classy freshman]

I have stated my case and I am done debating this topic. Jerry West and Kobe Bryant are both great players. I respect both men and hold both to the highestregard. Jerry West excelled against his competition, as has Kobe Bryant. While I feel that what Kobe has done in his era is more impressive due to how the gameand players have evolved, the greater talent pool in the league, the micro-management of todays players physical and mental preperation, at the end of the dayit is all still just my opinion. Even though the ESPN panel which included veteran sportswriters, former NBA players, and a hall of fame coach agree with me,there is still no way to really tell if we are right or not. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. So going back and forth trying to change someones"opinion" about what player is better can be difficult. I don't post too often in the s&t forum due to the time and work it takes sometimesto prove a point(I usually read NT while working), but I do read it often and I respect the opinions of 23ska909red02 and SHUGES. I didn't mean to come offwrong or offend anyone of you and if I did I apologize.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

JsindaA:

---

Ya'll getting kinda outta hand with this Kobe not dominating thing....he's clearly been the best over the decade. AI had ONE year where he was better and T-Mac had 3-4 where they were about equal but neither was ever really the most dominant SG in any year especially after 03

I just wanted to focus on that bolded part for a second.

"Ya'll getting kinda outta hand with this Kobe not dominating thing" = you saying that people should not be saying that Kobe isn't dominant, right?

"AI had ONE year where he was better" = you saying AI had ONE year where he was better than Kobe, right?

"T-Mac had 3-4 where they were about equal but neither was ever really the most dominant SG in any year especially after 03" = you saying that T-Mac had 3-4 years where he was about equal with Kobe, right?






Alright then...





Well Kobe's only been in the league for 11 full seasons (this is his 12th).

Obviously, he wasn't a dominant SG the year that AI was better, because that wouldn't make sense. So we can scratch that year off as a possible year for Kobe's dominance.

And if T-Mac was equal to Kobe for 3-4 years, then we can scratch those years off as possible years for Kobe's dominance, because you're not dominating if someone else is equal to you.

So that leaves us with 4-5 years that Kobe was NOT dominant, and he's only been in the league for 11 seasons. So we're down to 6-7 possible years where Kobe could have been called 'dominant'.

Alright, his first two seasons, he was a rookie/sophomore, and Jordan was winning championships, Finals MVPs, and a regular season MVP ('96-'97).

So we can scratch those two years off as possible years of Kobe's dominance. That leaves us with a possible 4-5 years... out of 11... where Kobe could POSSIBLY be called dominant.

And that's not even saying he WAS dominant those 4-5 years; those are just the only years where it was even POSSIBLE.




So those years where AI was better, T-Mac was equal, and Jordan was still locking down the Finals trophy, let's say that Kobe WAS the most dominant SG during those years; that would mean that he dominated for 4-5 years... out of 11. I'm no math major, but that's less than half of his career.

How could you say I dominated you if I won less than half of my battles against you?

How could he be called dominant if he could have only have dominated less than half of the years he played?




Name another SG from West's day. O.K., Pete Maravich, and he came at the tail end of West's career. name another. Forget naing another star SG; just name another one at all.

You can't, and there's a reason: because it didn't matter. At SG, there was Jerry West, and some... 'other'... guys.

He's not the logo because he was the best at his position for less than half of his career. He's not called Mr. Basketball because he was... kinda decent at the time, and sorta good for his day. He's not called Mr. Clutch because he hit a shot to win a game one time back in first junior varsity game.

Respect.

SKA we are talking about from 2000 to now which only consists of 8 years. Since 03 Kobe HAS been the dominant 2 guard. Which is 5 years....and we stillhave 2 left. AI has 2001 on lock and maybe 2000. T-Mac was pretty much equal 01-03. Since then there really hasn't been any one who has been better thanKobe. I don't want it to seem like I'm saying Kobe's dominance in his era > West's because that is completely false. All I am saying is thatit's wild to try and suggest Kobe hasn't been at the top for a long time now. I mean we have people saying it's only been 3 years...

I don't know if anyone remembers but after that first chip guess whowas heralded as the best SG in the game and was "the heir apparent"? That would be Kobe...and these comparisons between T-Mac(SF) and AI(1&2) areeven more asinine because neither are true 2's. Then looking at the chart that was just posted Kobe has missed 1st team a total of 1 time. Once. And thatyear he was hurt. Meanwhile AI has made first team...once and T-Mac twice...that means he has more 1st team appearances than both of them COMBINED. I don'tknow what universe that doesn't show dominance in but show me how to get there. Furthermore he has more rings than the both of them. Yeah I know he hadShaq but you tell me a superstar that has one a chip without a sidekick....I'm waiting. He may have dominated less than half his own career but 3 of thoseyears don't count. Even if we were to say that he has only dominated 4 years he still has 2 more pretty much on lock. I think we are getting dominating theposition and dominating the league mixed up...he's only dominated the league for 3 years. Which bodes well in his favor even more because neither one,MAYBE AI in 01, has ever been universally conceded as the best player in the league. Never. So I ask what says that either one of those players has been as oreven more dominant than Kobe this decade or better yet what says that those players have held Kobe from being the most dominant 2 for at least half of thisdecade?

 

[CP1708]

I've been watching this thread, trying to stay out and not sound like a stan or whatever, but there are some things being left unsaid.

First, my belief. MJ, West, KB. Kobe can get to #2 with a solid 5 or 6 more years. We shall see. But TODAY he is 3 all time.

But for this decade, it is a wrap. I'm sorry Shuges, I knowyou don't like dude, and have love for AI and TMac, but stop. For more then half this decade, AI has been a PG anyways. I don't even know why theyswitched him over to SG for the argument. In Philly he was more a PG then he ever was a 2, but for arguments sake, I looked at a few numbers that everyoneeither ignores, or didn't take the time to look or some just don't want to beleive.

To say that just because Kobe had Shaq doesn't mean that it hindered him at all is absolutley out of their freaking mind. I looked at the big seasons thatTracy and AI had and found some really interesting stuff. For instance, the year TMac scored 32.1, the next highest scorer on the team was Mike Miller at16.4. AI's big years go like this 27.6, 31.1, 31.4, 30.7, and 33. The next highest scorer each year for those? 15.9, 12.4, 15.1, 15.2, and 20. Onlyonce in AI's career did he have a guy score 20 until he got to Denver with Melo. Kobe in the year that he first averaged 30 points a game, had Shaq at27.5.

Two and a half points, that's it. You saw what happenedwhen Shaq left, Kobe was banged up the first year, but the next year he went for 35.4 and the next guy was at 15. NOBODY has ever averaged 30 a game, and hadsomeone right behind them at 27 or more. NO ONE. And that season Kobe still had 7 boards, and 6 assists a night.

Those are ridiculous numbers. The year that Kobe had 28.5, Shaq was at 28.7. He had 5 years this decade with someone else shooting the ball. AInever had that til last year and TMac never had that til Yao started to develop last season.

If you expect Kobe to finish strong this year and next, that would easily give him 7 dominant seasons in the decade, with the "down" years being03-04 (with 3 other hall of famers) and 04-05, where he missed a month and finished with 27.6 pts 5.9 reb, and 6 assists. Those were his"struggling" years. I mean really, TMac and AI were arguably better than that for a few of his seasons? I just don't buy that.

And much the same as AI played a lot of PG this decade, TMac played a helluva lot of SF as well. He wasn't always a 2. Kobe played the 2 every singlegame and moved over to SF for 10 minutes at a time if they went small, or for a half if there was foul trouble.

 

[1d]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. George Gervin
5. Allen Iverson
6. Clyde Drexler
7. Reggie Miller
8. Pete Maravich
9. Earl Monroe
10. Joe Dumars
My list

1. Michael Jordan
2. Clyde Drexler
3. Jerry West
4. Allen Iverson
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Mith Richmond
7. Reggie Miller
8. David Thompson
9. Joe Dumars
10. Latrell Sprewell

Most of the peole I took out because I always consider them more 1 or 3s

 

[darthska]

Classy Freshman:

---

I have stated my case and I am done debating this topic. Jerry West and Kobe Bryant are both great players. I respect both men and hold both to the highest regard. Jerry West excelled against his competition, as has Kobe Bryant. While I feel that what Kobe has done in his era is more impressive due to how the game and players have evolved, the greater talent pool in the league, the micro-management of todays players physical and mental preperation, at the end of the day it is all still just my opinion. Even though the ESPN panel which included veteran sportswriters, former NBA players, and a hall of fame coach agree with me, there is still no way to really tell if we are right or not. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. So going back and forth trying to change someones "opinion" about what player is better can be difficult. I don't post too often in the s&t forum due to the time and work it takes sometimes to prove a point(I usually read NT while working), but I do read it often and I respect the opinions of 23ska909red02 and SHUGES. I didn't mean to come off wrong or offend anyone of you and if I did I apologize.
Buddy, you have got absolutely nothing to apologize for in my book. I can't speak for SHUGES (or anyone other than myself), but I thought youbrought heat to the table, and that your contribution to the debate was respectful.

Even though I haven't been posting as much the last couple pages, I'm still reading every word; I'm a mod, and this is a comparison thread. I knowwe don't allow Player A > Player B discussions because people don't know how to handle them, but we won't know if that's still the case ifwe just automatically shut down Player > Player B discussions as soon as they pop up. THAT is the reason why, on like Page 8, I chose to clean the thread upand delete the wayward, unnecessary comments... and just let the thread continue. I did that to see how this goes, as it had already been 8 pages of gooddiscussion mixed with crap. So I deleted the crap, and just watched the thread to see what would happen.

What happened? I'll put it this way, if every Player A > Player B debate was done the way it was done in this thread with AI, T-Mac, Kobe, and West, wewouldn't have the rule 'No Player A > Player B threads'.

And you were one of the more frequent people in the discussion, so I don't think you came off sideways at all.

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Originally Posted by Classy Freshman

I have stated my case and I am done debating this topic. Jerry West and Kobe Bryant are both great players. I respect both men and hold both to the highest regard. Jerry West excelled against his competition, as has Kobe Bryant. While I feel that what Kobe has done in his era is more impressive due to how the game and players have evolved, the greater talent pool in the league, the micro-management of todays players physical and mental preperation, at the end of the day it is all still just my opinion. Even though the ESPN panel which included veteran sportswriters, former NBA players, and a hall of fame coach agree with me, there is still no way to really tell if we are right or not. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. So going back and forth trying to change someones "opinion" about what player is better can be difficult. I don't post too often in the s&t forum due to the time and work it takes sometimes to prove a point(I usually read NT while working), but I do read it often and I respect the opinions of 23ska909red02 and SHUGES. I didn't mean to come off wrong or offend anyone of you and if I did I apologize.

word... good points.. at least you're one of the few that backed up your opinions instead of just trolling like others do in NBA related topics....

you can check this thread to see what I mean

Most overrated player in the NBAhttp://niketalk.com/topic/49049




if only everyone on NT was like this when it came to NBA discussions

.....

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

I'm guessing the only reason some people want to place West at #2 on list was because of how he dominated in his own era. Like someone said in this post earlier, you don't judge greatness based on how the player would do in different eras.

I don't think anyone here said West was a flat out better player than Kobe is...

Precisely.

Originally Posted by Classy Freshman

I have stated my case and I am done debating this topic. Jerry West and Kobe Bryant are both great players. I respect both men and hold both to the highest regard. Jerry West excelled against his competition, as has Kobe Bryant. While I feel that what Kobe has done in his era is more impressive due to how the game and players have evolved, the greater talent pool in the league, the micro-management of todays players physical and mental preperation, at the end of the day it is all still just my opinion. Even though the ESPN panel which included veteran sportswriters, former NBA players, and a hall of fame coach agree with me, there is still no way to really tell if we are right or not. At the end of the day it is still an opinion. So going back and forth trying to change someones "opinion" about what player is better can be difficult. I don't post too often in the s&t forum due to the time and work it takes sometimes to prove a point(I usually read NT while working), but I do read it often and I respect the opinions of 23ska909red02 and SHUGES. I didn't mean to come off wrong or offend anyone of you and if I did I apologize.

I know exactly what you mean about it being time-consuming trying to prove a point. I told ska something similar a couple days ago.

But no need to apologize. Everyone is coming at each other in a respectful way and that can only produce an even better debate.
You should post more in S&T man (at least in topics like these).

Originally Posted by CP1708

I've been watching this thread, trying to stay out and not sound like a stan or whatever, but there are some things being left unsaid.

First, my belief. MJ, West, KB. Kobe can get to #2 with a solid 5 or 6 more years. We shall see. But TODAY he is 3 all time.

But for this decade, it is a wrap. I'm sorry Shuges, I know you don't like dude, and have love for AI and TMac, but stop. For more then half this decade, AI has been a PG anyways. I don't even know why they switched him over to SG for the argument. In Philly he was more a PG then he ever was a 2, but for arguments sake, I looked at a few numbers that everyone either ignores, or didn't take the time to look or some just don't want to beleive.

To say that just because Kobe had Shaq doesn't mean that it hindered him at all is absolutley out of their freaking mind. I looked at the big seasons that Tracy and AI had and found some really interesting stuff. For instance, the year TMac scored 32.1, the next highest scorer on the team was Mike Miller at 16.4. AI's big years go like this 27.6, 31.1, 31.4, 30.7, and 33. The next highest scorer each year for those? 15.9, 12.4, 15.1, 15.2, and 20. Only once in AI's career did he have a guy score 20 until he got to Denver with Melo. Kobe in the year that he first averaged 30 points a game, had Shaq at 27.5.

Two and a half points, that's it. You saw what happened when Shaq left, Kobe was banged up the first year, but the next year he went for 35.4 and the next guy was at 15. NOBODY has ever averaged 30 a game, and had someone right behind them at 27 or more. NO ONE. And that season Kobe still had 7 boards, and 6 assists a night.

Those are ridiculous numbers. The year that Kobe had 28.5, Shaq was at 28.7. He had 5 years this decade with someone else shooting the ball. AI never had that til last year and TMac never had that til Yao started to develop last season.

If you expect Kobe to finish strong this year and next, that would easily give him 7 dominant seasons in the decade, with the "down" years being 03-04 (with 3 other hall of famers) and 04-05, where he missed a month and finished with 27.6 pts 5.9 reb, and 6 assists. Those were his "struggling" years. I mean really, TMac and AI were arguably better than that for a few of his seasons? I just don't buy that.

And much the same as AI played a lot of PG this decade, TMac played a helluva lot of SF as well. He wasn't always a 2. Kobe played the 2 every single game and moved over to SF for 10 minutes at a time if they went small, or for a half if there was foul trouble.

Great points. I admit, I don't like the Dirty Snake...

But I love his game. (JUST his game). Ya'll can never say that I've fronted ondude's talent.

The AI as a point and T-Mac as a sf argument is valid. I considered the same thing too. But the years that AI dominated he actually was at the 2. Eric Snow wasrunning point. And even now, AI is playing the 2. AI really was only playing the point when he FIRST came into the L, way before this decade started.

T-Mac in Orlando played both positions, I'll give you that (Mike Miller interchanging with him depending on matchups). But remember, T-Mac originally wentover there because Orlando already HAD a sf in Grant Hill (though he was always hurt). He went over there as a 2 but wound up playing both spots. And ifI'm not mistaken, that used to be one of the arguments made back then... that Tracy COULD play two (even 3) positions VERY effectively.

So no, I'm still not conceding Mamba as the CLEARCUT best sg of this decade. Especially when we have 2 more seasons to go.

[Ron Burgundy] Agree to Disagree [Ron Burgundy]


Pretty much.

 

[scottsauce88]

So those years where AI was better, T-Mac was equal, and Jordan was still locking down the Finals trophy, let's say that Kobe WAS the most dominant SG during those years; that would mean that he dominated for 4-5 years... out of 11. I'm no math major, but that's less than half of his career.

what the hell are you talking about???? Were talking about whether or not Kobe is the best SG of THIS DECADE. That equals 2000-2008. I dontknow how 11 years fit into a 10 year decade but that is just me

And I like the dude who posted that All-NBA teams to try to prove a point that Kobe wasn't dominant. He was all-nba almost every year since 01, thatshould say something. That's not even including the defensive aspect of the game which Kobe is better than both at.

You guys are arguing that Kobe isnt dominant because there are other players in some years that are as good as Kobe offensives. Well, there are two sides tothe game, offensive and defensive. What you guys are basically telling me is a player wouldnt be the best one year is he averaged 30ppg over the entire seasonand someone else averaged 32 ppg over half the season.

Im not doubting that there are years where one player has been as good and maybe better, but in the case of Tmac he has fallen off, and in the case of AI Kobehas always, I mean always played better D. You can go ahead and ignore the Defensive aspect of the players games, but it is half the fricken game ofbasketball.

Kobe has been a 7 time all-defensive selection, with 5 of those being first teams. Guess how many AI has? 0 Tmac? 0.

I dont mean to come off as attacking anyone, but it is pretty clear that Kobe has been the best SG of this decade.

 

[wstcoastgotti]

NO WAY!

Did we just have a debate... on the NBA... 11 pages deep... about KOBE... and we all respectfully concluded the discussion????

What is goin on this world????

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

word... good points.. at least you're one of the few that backed up your opinions instead of just trolling like others do in NBA related topics....

you can check this thread to see what I mean

Most overrated player in the NBAhttp://niketalk.com/topic/49049




if only everyone on NT was like this when it came to NBA discussions

.....

I remember when I first saw that thread. I saw like the first 2 replies and broke out.

That thread should have just been called "who do you hate in the nba?"

 

[jville819]

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

NO WAY!

Did we just have a debate... on the NBA... 11 pages deep... about KOBE... and we all respectfully concluded the discussion????

What is goin on this world????

Things almost got out of hand last night when someone made a post about 81 being better than 100. Ska shut that down real quick

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

That thread should have just been called "who do you hate in the nba?"

NO WAY!

Did we just have a debate... on the NBA... 11 pages deep... about KOBE... and we all respectfully concluded the discussion????

What is goin on this world????

it's cause all the trolls left

 

[renkxedik]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

What some of you are not comprehending is that back in Jordan's day, there was NO TWO GUARD THAT COULD COMPARE TO HIM.

That's how dominant Jordan was.

And the point I am trying to make (and that ska summed up perfectly imo) is that Mamba has quite a few people who were either a. better than him or b. equal to him throughout his career.

So how can you call someone dominant for this decade when he was never CLEARLY the best player at his position for an extended stretch of time??

I don't want to hear excuses about Shaq being there or his team wasn't that good. Whatever.

Jordan DOMINATED whether he had a scrubby team (early years) or a great team (late years). Bad coaches. Good coaches. No Pippen (early years). During rule changes. Etc... Yet, throughout ALL of that, he was still CLEARLY the most dominant player.

Beanhead has NEVER achieved that for an EXTENDED length of time.

actually before Jordan started winning championships the best SG race was widely believed to be between him and Drexler, what started to set them apart waswhen he finally got pass Detroit and later won his first championship.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

Oh my goodness, no one is arguing how good 24 is! We all get it.

He's good. Ok.

What some of you are not comprehending is that back in Jordan's day, there was NO TWO GUARD THAT COULD COMPARE TO HIM.

That's how dominant Jordan was.

And the point I am trying to make (and that ska summed up perfectly imo) is that Mamba has quite a few people who were either a. better than him or b. equal to him throughout his career.

So how can you call someone dominant for this decade when he was never CLEARLY the best player at his position for an extended stretch of time??

I don't want to hear excuses about Shaq being there or his team wasn't that good. Whatever.

Jordan DOMINATED whether he had a scrubby team (early years) or a great team (late years). Bad coaches. Good coaches. No Pippen (early years). During rule changes. Etc... Yet, throughout ALL of that, he was still CLEARLY the most dominant player.

Beanhead has NEVER achieved that for an EXTENDED length of time.

Wait... Nobody is arguing the Jordan aspect of it. Jordan is far and away the best 2 guard.

We are debating between 24 and West... and sure there are players that compare to 24 now, but thats cus the amount of talent and ability is far greater now than it was in West's era.

However, we already went through that part

[Ron Burgundy] Agree to Disagree [Ron Burgundy]


and others even conceded west and arguing ska's ridiculous comment about pistol and iverson

 

[fyalady]

And I like the dude who posted that All-NBA teams to try to prove a point that Kobe wasn't dominant. He was all-nba almost every year since 01, that should say something. That's not even including the defensive aspect of the game which Kobe is better than both at.

You guys are arguing that Kobe isnt dominant because there are other players in some years that are as good as Kobe offensives. Well, there are two sides to the game, offensive and defensive. What you guys are basically telling me is a player wouldnt be the best one year is he averaged 30ppg over the entire season and someone else averaged 32 ppg over half the season.
lol, you had a point, but kinda failed though.
the list shows that he wasn't dominating because he wasn't the all nba first team every year, even when he made the first team, tmac also was in thegroup.
also the list is not just for offensive players. it's just overall, overall best players at each position.

 

[here 4 tha kickz]

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

And I like the dude who posted that All-NBA teams to try to prove a point that Kobe wasn't dominant. He was all-nba almost every year since 01, that should say something. That's not even including the defensive aspect of the game which Kobe is better than both at.

You guys are arguing that Kobe isnt dominant because there are other players in some years that are as good as Kobe offensives. Well, there are two sides to the game, offensive and defensive. What you guys are basically telling me is a player wouldnt be the best one year is he averaged 30ppg over the entire season and someone else averaged 32 ppg over half the season.

Im not doubting that there are years where one player has been as good and maybe better, but in the case of Tmac he has fallen off, and in the case of AI Kobe has always, I mean always played better D. You can go ahead and ignore the Defensive aspect of the players games, but it is half the fricken game of basketball.

Kobe has been a 7 time all-defensive selection, with 5 of those being first teams. Guess how many AI has? 0 Tmac? 0.

I dont mean to come off as attacking anyone, but it is pretty clear that Kobe has been the best SG of this decade.

shawn marion, a great defensive player, also has zero all defense selections. is he relevant to this argument? absolutely not. mcgrady may not bemotivated as much to play hard d, but when he's motivated, he can give a lot people fits.

 

[dotaganza]

Kobe>__________________. Iverson shouldn't be that high. Hes bout to get swept by Kobe.

 

[dotaganza]

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

NO WAY!

Did we just have a debate... on the NBA... 11 pages deep... about KOBE... and we all respectfully concluded the discussion????

What is goin on this world????

Things almost got out of hand last night when someone made a post about 81 being better than 100. Ska shut that down real quick

81 from a Guard is unheard of. The way Kobe scored 81 is also crazy. Wilt did it at a wack era. He wouldn't even score 50 on the Grizzlies in this dayand age.

 

[kidoopz]

Originally Posted by dotaganza

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

NO WAY!

Did we just have a debate... on the NBA... 11 pages deep... about KOBE... and we all respectfully concluded the discussion????

What is goin on this world????

Things almost got out of hand last night when someone made a post about 81 being better than 100. Ska shut that down real quick

81 from a Guard is unheard of. The way Kobe scored 81 is also crazy. Wilt did it at a wack era. He wouldn't even score 50 on the Grizzlies in this day and age.

*Ignored*