ESPN chooses their Top 10 Greatest Shooting Guards of all time

[jsindaa]

I've been doing this

and this

AND this



the entire thread.

Some of the arguments on here are beyond stupid. We don't know how good Jerry West is because we haven't seen on him on a nightly basis?

Players know are more knowledgeable than in his era heck even 10 yearsago? Kobe #1? Athletic players are better than non athletic players? Wow. If you can't see how the NBA right now is worse than just 10 years ago there is aserious problem. The players now have nowhere near the fundamentals nor the knowledge of the game that players in West's era had. All we have arespecialized players and superstars. It's hard to find BASKETBALL players. Hard. No one (for some odd reason) strives towards having a complete game. Tosuggest that Jerry West couldn't play in this era is crazy. If there is one thing I have noticed it is that athleticism means squat when you play peoplethat play the game right. Which is a great reason as to why the USA has been getting it's @#$ handed to them in international play. That's off topicthough. Jerry West should probably be #2 at this point right now....and I only say that because Kobe's career is not finished. #3 is his spot IMO. All thisother stuff is outrageous. Players now are easily the most athletic to have played but most talented? That I don't know if I can agree with. Athleticismdoes not equal talent and for some reason people seem to think that. I honestly think some of you need to take about a week and rent some old NBA films...thencome back. Let's see how drastic a change your opinion has.

 

[classy freshman]

However, I'm sure he doesn't appreciate being used to boost your credibility, like knowing an NBA player makes you more knowledgeable
Just knowing an NBA player does not make me more knowledgeable, but knowing what the NBA players of today go through and how it pertains to thispost does.

"The players in todays NBA have way more knowledge and are way better prepared than those of Jerry West's era." How do you know? You might know players like Aaron Gray personally, but did you know of the players back then personally?
Well one thing I know is they didn't have the technology they do now back in the 1960-61 season. So I mean it really wouldn't betechnically possible to break down game tape like they do now would it???

Filibuster? That's usually a term reserved for professional debates, not debates on online sneaker forums.

Stop taking things so seriously, bro. Call a recess or present the findings of your next case study or something.
That was a joke. Next time I will throw in some smiley faces so you can sense the sarcasm.

West seemed to be a more pesky defender, and I'm not looking at any numbers to support that. he wasn't just active when the ball was on his side of the floor or near him; he would go to the ball and be active, and still defend his man or position, pretty much being in two places at the same time. You would think that if he leaves his man or his position, the defense would be able to exploit that, but he was pesky enough to see what they saw, and was often able to cheat back to his position or man and steal the pass that came from a guy that thought West was just in front of him. Active hands, quick feet, and a tenacity to go to the ball on defense: I would give that to West.

Classy Freshman:

---

First of all, Jerry West is 6' 2" and Kobe is 6' 7". Kobe Bryant is stronger, quicker, and has just as much savy as Jerry West. Active hands, quicker feet? Tenacity? Come on man...

I'm not surprised at all that you didn't touch the mechanical aspects of the game I mentioned; you merely ran to the facts about the two player's bodies. I know what I've seen, and West was a smarter defender of the floor, the ball, and his man. And I know this because... "Me personally? I'm a student of the game."
I honestly didn't think I would have to go there with that one. Kobe made all defensive team 7 times in his career. Five times on the firstteam, twice on the second team. He has now just reached his prime, so you can add probably add 2-3 to that by the time his career is over. Now Jerry West madeall defensive team just 4 times in his whole career. Again you have to consider there were not as many teams, and some of the best players of the era wereplaying in the ABA(which you have failed to touch upon yet

) So who wasJerry West locking up?? If that doesn't convince you just ask yourself this... what 2 guard in Jerry West's era can't Kobe guard, and what 2 guardin Kobe's era can Jerry West guard???

 

[rudolph1996]

Originally Posted by 24 K B 8

They've got #1 wrong

..... I dont see #2 with a defensive player of the yearon his resume.....

 

[shuges]

They didn't even record steals back when West played.

All-defensive teams started in 1968-69.

West made it every year once those teams started (4 first teams and 1 second team selection) except his final season (He pulled his groin in the finalseason and was limited to only 31 games).

So none of us really know how he might perform against a player of today.

And yes, I had to research some of that.

Don't want anyone saying I'm coming off as a know it all.

 

[CP1708]

Bottom line for anyone in here that is thinking of bashing West. They didn't pick his name out of a hat to be the logo. He was chosen for a reason. Atthe time, back then, he was one of the best to ever lace em up. He always ran into a team full of hall of famers that prevented him from having a handful ofrings. Otherwise he could have both the numbers and a couple of rings to show for his career.

I think today West should be # 2. When Kobe is all done with his career in a few years, then maybe he will deserve to be #2. Let him finish out the stringand we'll see where he ends up. But Jerry West is no bum.

 

[battousai701]

Originally Posted by 24 K B 8

I would take Kobe over MJ 100 times out of 100.

its obvious that ur a kobe fanboy... and that ok. kobe is a great player

but u apparently dont know who michael jordan is.

respect ur elders boy

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Originally Posted by Battousai701

Originally Posted by 24 K B 8

I would take Kobe over MJ 100 times out of 100.

its obvious that ur a kobe fanboy... and that ok. kobe is a great player

but u apparently dont know who michael jordan is.

respect ur elders boy

don't even bother man

anyone who watched MJ play in his prime realizes how ridiculous the comparison is... I only post my opinions on Kobe vs MJ just to defend against the skewedperceptions of the younger NT'ers who may have never seen him play in his prime.

 

[roscoe p wallace]

Originally Posted by CP1708

They didn't pick his name out of a hat to be the logo. He was chosen for a reason. At the time, back then, he was one of the best to ever lace em up. He always ran into a team full of hall of famers that prevented him from having a handful of rings. Otherwise he could have both the numbers and a couple of rings to show for his career.

I think today West should be # 2. When Kobe is all done with his career in a few years, then maybe he will deserve to be #2. Let him finish out the string and we'll see where he ends up. But Jerry West is no bum.

All there is to it, let Kobe finish he career, then put him at #2, but at the end of the day don't get intoxicated by the players you can see every night,and forget about the greatness that already past. Jerry West might not ever have been able to dunk, but he could certainly ball at a high enough level to haveall 480 players in todays league wear his image on their shoulder.

 

[marleysprotege]

i dont love kobe that much ... mj, ai, west, gervin, jumble the rest

 

[putting in work]

Like many I think West should be above Kobe.

 

[scottsauce88]

Some of the arguments on here are beyond stupid. We don't know how good Jerry West is because we haven't seen on him on a nightly basis?
a) no one, i mean no one said nighly.

b) I like how everyone is bashing my argument, but when someone says that Kobe is better than Jordan, the first thing that comes out of there mouth is youvenever seen jordan play. (I am in no way shape or form saying Kobe is better than Jordan, nor do I believe it within an inch of my soul). Its funny though, NTalways screams when people use stats to argue one player is better than another and yet in post like these most of the people crying about using stats are thefirst ones to use them.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Three6mafia2007

Originally Posted by lnMyMind

Give Maravich, Iverson, or West the EXACT career Kobe has had... playing with one of the league's top 5 centers ever for like 8 years ('96-'97 to '03-'04, right?) and one of the top 3 coaches of all time, and they would at LEAST do what Kobe has done; I think they would do better, though.

You could have just saved yourself some time and replied with, "I don't like Kobe"

lol. exactly what i was thinking


Basically

 

[wstcoastgotti]

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe isclearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

SKA dominates fools on this board daily... but Classyfreshman is bringin heat to the table, i like it. GREAT arguments on both sides.

 

[marleysprotege]

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.
i do believe mj was playing in this decade ... and ai is better than kobe even still ...

 

[bullsrepeat3peat]

^ MJ was a SF on the Wizards.....

 

[wstcoastgotti]

i do believe mj was playing in this decade ... and ai is better than kobe even still ...
MP... you know dam well... this decade, KB>MJ

Overall career, sure its easily MJ>KB

And AI is my favorite player so out of love for dude, I aint even gunna debate against him. I just think considering defense and all aspects of the game,KB>AI

 

[marleysprotege]

youre right ... im just a kobe hater and an ai lover (no karamo) ...

1. I hate Jason Campbell
2. I hate Greievis Vazquez
3. I hate Kobe Bryant

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.
Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.

 

[here 4 tha kickz]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.

he's got a point.

 

[scottsauce88]

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.
For one, the four years being better is debatable. Two, a decade comprises of 10 years, not 3-4 years at a high level then a constant declinefrom there on out. Its not like TMac is the most durable player in the league anyways.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships
im not a Kobe fan, but he has a pretty good shot at an MVP this year, and he has a few scoring championships. Oh, and a couple of rings.

AI is the closest debatable player to Kobe this decade, but Kobe is clearly a more complete player. If AI were 6 inches talller, this would be a muchdifferent conversation.

 

[three6mafia2007]

i must say, scottsauce gangsta 207 and classy freshman have been comin with str8 heat throughout this entire thread. keep it comin guys

 

[marleysprotege]

ai is better than mj ever was

 

[shuges]

And herrrrrrrrrrrrrre we go.

T-Mac vs Hiss, Round 1829818195181692019015

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

For one, the four years being better is debatable. Two, a decade comprises of 10 years, not 3-4 years at a high level then a constant decline from there on out. Its not like TMac is the most durable player in the league anyways.

Underline: I agree it's debatable which is why I said "T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior (OR EQUAL TO) 24".

Italics: So are you saying that T-Mac has been in a "constant decline"? Or is it because he actually finally had a guy on his team who he could lettake some of the scoring load from himself in Yao Ming??

To deny that Tracy McGrady was neck and neck with 24 from say 01 through 05 is absurd. Back to back scoring champ not in the conversation?

Scottsauce88 wrote:

---

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships
im not a Kobe fan, but he has a pretty good shot at an MVP this year, and he has a few scoring championships. Oh, and a couple of rings.

AI is the closest debatable player to Kobe this decade, but Kobe is clearly a more complete player. If AI were 6 inches talller, this would be a much different conversation.

I like how you dismiss AI by saying Snake has his own shot at MVP. To dismiss AI's FOUR scoring titles by inflating 24's is just wrong. (I saw you saidhe has "a few" when he actually has two. Same amount as... oh wow, T-Mac).

Rings (three actually and not two for Beanhead) are irrelevant in a discussion about a player's INDIVIDUAL dominance anyway.

I'm still trying to figure out what AI's height has to do with anything. So now there's a height requirement to determine if a player can evenstack up to Beanhead?

Please keep your arguments straight homie. This started with someone saying there's no debate that 24 is the best SG this decade. What the heck does heighthave to do with if AI stacks up or not??

 

[presequel]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.

Well, one way to look at it is that Kobe has been in arguments of who is the best 2 guard in the game for the whole decade. He's been compared vs

AI
Vince Carter
Tmac
Ray Allen
Wade
Now, with the decade tailing off, and all of the above not in the same discussion as Kobe (tmac has come back this year, but he'll have to prove todoubters he can stay healthy) then it shows that Kobe has been a constant, while others may have been slightly better for a small period of time, but over thelong term, Kobe stayed at the top while the others dropped down a bit.

So if we're talking about greatness for a full decade, I think Kobe overall has done it each year, always at the top. All the others have dropped down, andpossibly peaked too high at one year.

Now the only player who can really be mentioned is Lebron, but he's not really a sg.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by presequel

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by WstCoastGotti

west was cleary the best sg in his era, not really the case with kobe

I dont even like KB24 that much and this statement is just dumb. Kobe is clearly the best of this decade from the 2 spot... that aint debatable brutha.

Actually, T-Mac for at least 3-4 years was looked at as superior to (or equal to) 24. Hard as it is for some of you to believe that.

AI also won an MVP award in this decade and a few scoring championships.

So no way in hell would I say that Snake is "clearly the best from this decade at the 2 spot".

NO WAY.

Well, one way to look at it is that Kobe has been in arguments of who is the best 2 guard in the game for the whole decade. He's been compared vs

AI
Vince Carter
Tmac
Ray Allen
Wade
Now, with the decade tailing off, and all of the above not in the same discussion as Kobe (tmac has come back this year, but he'll have to prove to doubters he can stay healthy) then it shows that Kobe has been a constant, while others may have been slightly better for a small period of time, but over the long term, Kobe stayed at the top while the others dropped down a bit.

So if we're talking about greatness for a full decade, I think Kobe overall has done it each year, always at the top. All the others have dropped down, and possibly peaked too high at one year.
Good defense.

But that was the point when someone mentioned MJ being dominant - WITHOUT QUESTION - for his era. There was NO ONE being compared to Mike. Drex maybe. But thatwas for like 2 years.

With so many different people to LEGITIMATELY compare 24 to, it's why I said there's NO WAY you can say 24 is without question the best of THIS decade.