Forbes article if I was a poor black kid

[heist25]

Originally Posted by oidreez

Originally Posted by Heist25

Some guy with a Dipset avatar is mad about what this guy is saying? As if what Dipset says isn't far worse, and has far more reach in the inner city. We learn everyday how much media influences people, but for some reason people think rap is excused from accountability. Yeah as if glamorizing the exact lifestyle, that people like the author of this article are trying to discourage, isn't doing harm. But for some reason you're picking a bone with the writer of this article and making a Dipset logo your avatar? You got to be kidding me.

The +#%$ does my avatar have to do with my argument? Please go sit down.

The same way that the author's race has to do with his. Get a real argument before you criticize someone when he's doing far more than you have.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

putty, coming from a war torn country into the usa in 2011 theoretically IS better than being oppressed by a system for 300 years.


the history isnt there...the effects of the system arent present....its a virtual "clean slate"


which is why i prefer to refer to decendants of slaves as african americans, as opposed to all black people here.



you're missing the point.


dude is COMPLETELY oblivious to the day-to-day thoughts, feelings and emotions of a "poor black kid"

he's basically regurgitating the same things hawk from GI Joe told "poor black kids" in the 80s

nothing innovative nor groundbreaking was said

instead

a middle aged man who severely lacks perspective threw his 2 cents in on a subject he's OBLIVIOUS about....and it shows.


basically, if ole boy was telling athiests what to do, youd have a field day with this

but since you sorta kinda agree/see value in his article

you're gonna defend it tooth and nail

dude is as well versed in the experience of a "poor black kid" as the religious zealots are with their own religions

not once did he address personal safety..........every human beings number 1 priority above EVERYTHING ELSE

(watch one of these dunces actually contradict and attempt to ARGUE that every living human's number 1 priority is to remain alive...lmao watch)

because it didnt cross his mind...

just speaking from a position of superiority

telling people what he would do in a situation he's painfully ignorant of...


it was a poor article with a poor idea

written poorly

which doesnt introduce a single new idea or concept

nor does it offer any sort of REAL advice


basically, re-read meth's post, b.



(you think he mentioned the differences in the experience his children have and that of a poor black kid because he truely understood, or just to preface the "tough love advice" he needed to give for the rest of the paper? my guess is that those were just words 'i know my kids have a totally different experience" so then why would you give them advice like their day-to-day lives are the exact same? once again, can someone address telling a kid "focus on reading, number 1 priority" when the lights in their house are cut off? or is that too extreme an example? just me making excuses? right.)

 

[deuce king]

This guy is just sitting back writing an article on what he would do if he was in a poor black kid's situation

 
How is this guy JUST SITTING BACK, when he gave specific educational tools and resource outlets for these kids to help better themselves and those around them??

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by oidreez

how does it make it better that he "admits his bias"?

Its like the doctor who is treating a guy who had his leg blown off.



He doesn't know what its like to lose a leg...but hes trying to help the situation. 

so he tells the guy "just focus on getting your amputated nub to stop bleeding..." 

  

The same way that the author's race has to do with his. Get a real argument before you criticize someone when he's doing far more than you have.
 

, this was so idiotic and void of reason i had to quote it.

LMAO @ dipset avy

LMAO @ as much as his race has to do with it, an article about race in which he admits he's completely ignorant and oblivious to the black experience.

you go ahead and avoid this post.

If you're a poor black kid right now there are two options.



A. Learn about how society hates you and wait on society to change to make things better




B. Learn to educate yourself and hustle your way out by working harder than your peers.




You tell me which one is more likely to happen. 

unfortunately, if this white dude's article consisted of exactly what i just quoted, wouldnt be no issues

the problem i have is how disconnected and downright ignorant his tone is...

he completely lacks perspective on the topic he's giving advice on as if he's some sort of authority on the subject

and he isnt

honestly, had this dude hung out with one of these "poor black kids" he knows how to "fix" for even an hour, his article would be a completely different article.

he'd prolly develop an animosity toward his own children who truely are presented with every opportunity to do whatever they want and end up as meth head prostitutes....


something also tells me the same guy who wrote this article and is so forward in admitting his bias and privilege somehow would think affirmative action is unfair and wrong.....even though he admits a successful black kid from the hood not only worked harder, but is a stronger and ultimately more attractive prospect than a privileged white peer who, ADMITTEDLY, had an easier life and path to the same job title.....

but dont let sotomayor say that, faux news will hyperventillate again

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

This guy is just sitting back writing an article on what he would do if he was in a poor black kid's situation

 
How is this guy JUST SITTING BACK, when he gave specific educational tools and resource outlets for these kids to help better themselves and those around them??




hes "sitting back" because its painfully obvious hes never even so much as held a conversation with one of these "poor black kids" he's offering "advice" to.....

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

"i would focus on reading" nevermind if you dont live walking distance to a library, cause, you know, you could just read like traffic signs and become an on-level reader....plus, you know, if youre 5, you KNOW you need to learn how to read so youll walk YOURSELF to the library and register for a card...yep....


nevermind the schools they attend are literally falling apart and are full of teachers who care even less than their parents do

nevermind that, get this magical "book" out of thin air and read it......

dont worry about the gunshots....or crackheads....dont sweat it

read your imaginary books that your family can afford

i dont know how many times i have to type the same thing over and over again.

 

[youngcfromthad]

I'm from the "hood" and did something positive with my life. Yes grades helped me out but I was blessed to have good family structure. Most kids don't which compounds the situation and makes the simple getting good grades a non factor. It can be done but people sometimes have no clue how bad some of these kids situation is being a " poor black kid". I see it.every day because I work with kids so I see how bad it really is now.

 

[oidreez]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

This guy is just sitting back writing an article on what he would do if he was in a poor black kid's situation

 
How is this guy JUST SITTING BACK, when he gave specific educational tools and resource outlets for these kids to help better themselves and those around them??




Maybe just sitting back was a poor choice of words but it's always easy for someone looking on the outside in to say what the people on the inside should be doing.

Please Heist just stop. You obviously dont know what you're talking about. Is the author your father or something?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

putty, coming from a war torn country into the usa in 2011 theoretically IS better than being oppressed by a system for 300 years.

I can see this.

the history isnt there...the effects of the system arent present....its a virtual "clean slate"
Eh...American kinda hits you with the racism rather quick...especially if you're not used to it. 

which is why i prefer to refer to decendants of slaves as african americans, as opposed to all black people here.
Can of worms here... black people are a diverse crowd...my heritage is more inline with Caribbean natives and black slaves there. 

you're missing the point.
Lets get to it. 

dude is COMPLETELY oblivious to the day-to-day thoughts, feelings and emotions of a "poor black kid"

he's basically regurgitating the same things hawk from GI Joe told "poor black kids" in the 80s

nothing innovative nor groundbreaking was said
Well of course nothing new was said...
The standards of success haven't changed either, though. I'm not saying he was profound or anything. I'm saying that nothing he said was wrong.

Good grades = better chances. 

Being oblivious to how Tyrone pays for his food doesn't change the fact that tyrone might have to work after school AND still do his homework to survive if he wants the same shot his white peers have. Its not easier by any means but hes doing what he has to do. 

instead

a middle aged man who severely lacks perspective threw his 2 cents in on a subject he's OBLIVIOUS about....and it shows.

He admits his bias and he grants a plethora of resources to help people... 
Yet this is still the crux of the criticism. 

Not that what he said, but who said it. As if that really matters.

If Jesse or Sharpton said this, people would be applauding. 

basically, if ole boy was telling athiests what to do, youd have a field day with this

If he was telling atheists to concentrate on improving themselves and learning to educate those around them and working on a grassroots level to gain acceptance? Well I doubt I would.
Like I said, there is a two part thing to this.

1. understanding the issue

2. addressing the issue. 

Everyone understands this issue. Now its time to address it. 

but since you sorta kinda agree/see value in his article

you're gonna defend it tooth and nail

The only criticism I can find is that he didn't do the "traditional" insertion of facts figures and statistics to show hes "down" with black people. 
Thats all it takes to prove to many of you that someone "gets it" 

If he doubled the length of the article with facts about how black people get the short end of the stick then no one would have a problem with it. 

We love to focus on the victimization aspect here and NOT the solution part here. 

dude is as well versed in the experience of a "poor black kid" as the religious zealots are with their own religions

not once did he address personal safety..........every human beings number 1 priority above EVERYTHING ELSE

Personal safety?
Look. 

The guy said, IT WONT BE EASY (take it to mean how you will) but you gotta make it happen regardless. 

If one kid dodges mortars on the way to school and another has to stay out of the rain, thats all a matter of self preservation. 

At the end of the day, if youre not putting up the numbers and values to show your worth as an educated person, no one cares. 

Rich or poor. Black or white. 

(watch one of these dunces actually contradict and attempt to ARGUE that every living human's number 1 priority is to remain alive...lmao watch)

because it didnt cross his mind...

Why should it cross his mind?
He already knows he nor his kids are fighting literally to get to school each morning. He admitted this already several times. 

Hes relating the importance of sticking to the script and getting it done no matter what.

His listing of resources does FAR more than your want for him to address 

Even in the WORST school you have to shine. Thats just the truth, no matter how you cut it.

I grew up with homies that went to AWFUL schools and they straight BEASTED their conditions. worked 3 jobs. some had kids. they didn't let society weight them down. they manned up and fought back. 

They knew there was a way out and they made it happen. They didn't blame society, even though society didn't care about them and they knew it. 

just speaking from a position of superiority

telling people what he would do in a situation he's painfully ignorant of...

If you were a poor black boy, how would you succeed?
Tell me. 

Would you want the world to argue over how to fix massive systemic issues or are you concerned with what you can use RIGHT NOW to address the fact that you can't pass this class? 

I'm i'm sitting here RIGHT NOW knowing that my books sucks and my teacher doesn't care, I don't CARE what you all are talking about...cause it doesn't concern me.

The only thing that concerns me RIGHT NOW is getting an A on this paper. How are you going to help me do that? RIGHT NOW? 

it was a poor article with a poor idea

written poorly

I wholeheartedly disagree .

which doesnt introduce a single new idea or concept
How many new ideas of raw education are needed?

Good grades = better chances.
Nothing is guaranteed...but your shot is a lot better if you can at least scrape together success in some way, shape or form. 

nor does it offer any sort of REAL advice

Lets talk about how much black kids are incarcerated as opposed to how tyrone can use an online calculator to help him on his winter break assignment. 
Lets talk about how much black families are broken up instead of showing tyrone how to teach himself in the mean time

Lets talk about laws put in place to keep us down instead of how to improve memory or take better notes in class.

HOW IS THIS DEBATE HELPING STUDENTS RIGHT NOW? 

basically, re-read meth's post, b.

I did. I replied. I disagreed. 

(you think he mentioned the differences in the experience his children have and that of a poor black kid because he truely understood, or just to preface the "tough love advice" he needed to give for the rest of the paper?
Hes basically saying, I know it doesn't mean much but here is how I can try to help. I forget how privileged my kids are when they are really that special. Other kids have to figure out the stuff that his kids automatically get taken care of.
Think of all the black kids that had no idea about these sites. Or possible ways to get ahead.

Think about all the new hits these sites got from those just looking for a way to better themselves. 

But no, lets continue the pity party. 

my guess is that those were just words 'i know my kids have a totally different experience" so then why would you give them advice like their day-to-day lives are the exact same? once again, can someone address telling a kid "focus on reading, number 1 priority" when the lights in their house are cut off? or is that too extreme an example? just me making excuses? right.)

OK...so even if the lights get cut off, does that not emphasize the needs to STILL be able to read? 
Kids in africa read by candle light...I went to school with someone like this...and he was considered well off where hes from. 

Life is hard...we all have to struggle...but we can't keep waving the flag of "woe is me" without offering some solutions.




I understand how important it is to understand these problems systemically...but how does that help Tyrone do his homework TONIGHT? 




How does that make tyrone with his reading TONIGHT? 




How does that show tyrone how to make better choices TONIGHT? 

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

"i would focus on reading" nevermind if you dont live walking distance to a library, cause, you know, you could just read like traffic signs and become an on-level reader....plus, you know, if youre 5, you KNOW you need to learn how to read so youll walk YOURSELF to the library and register for a card...yep....


nevermind the schools they attend are literally falling apart and are full of teachers who care even less than their parents do

nevermind that, get this magical "book" out of thin air and read it......

dont worry about the gunshots....or crackheads....dont sweat it

read your imaginary books that your family can afford

i dont know how many times i have to type the same thing over and over again.

Excuses.




Ultimately, all of these are excuses.




These are obstacles to success. NOT the elimination of success. 




Talk about systematic and institutionalized XYZ all day till we're blue in the face...but listing some things for poor kids to do is all of a sudden inflammatory? 




Its been 30 years since most of this stuff started to be talked about...but all of a sudden offering some suggestions is insensitive? 




That compiled list of possibilities is more than reemphasizing how much Tyrones life sucks. 




Where is your solution to these problems? Listing MORE obstacles?




Or showing kids even a LIST of POSSIBLE THINGS TO DO? 

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by Deuce King

This guy is just sitting back writing an article on what he would do if he was in a poor black kid's situation

 
How is this guy JUST SITTING BACK, when he gave specific educational tools and resource outlets for these kids to help better themselves and those around them??

hes "sitting back" because its painfully obvious hes never even so much as held a conversation with one of these "poor black kids" he's offering "advice" to.....



Even if never held a conversation with one of these "poor black kids" does his advice or suggestions not count for something??  In his article at no point did he every say or imply that things would be or are easy for "poor black kids", he gives expertise from his point of view for these kids to overcome some of these obstacles. 

Maybe just sitting back was a poor choice of words but it's always easy for someone looking on the outside in to say what the people on the inside should be doing. 


Okay.  So for you and everyone that has an issue with the article, the writer or both even, what is your advice or suggestions to help the issue at hand.  Again, we know what the problem is, how do we go about fixing it and helping ourselves in the process??
  

 

[heist25]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by oidreez

how does it make it better that he "admits his bias"?

Its like the doctor who is treating a guy who had his leg blown off.

The same way that the author's race has to do with his. Get a real argument before you criticize someone when he's doing far more than you have.

 

, this was so idiotic and void of reason i had to quote it.

LMAO @ dipset avy

LMAO @ as much as his race has to do with it, an article about race in which he admits he's completely ignorant and oblivious to the black experience.

you go ahead and avoid this post.

Its completely hypocritical and a joke. You demonize a writer for saying:

"I am not a poor black kid.  I am a middle aged white guy who comes from a middle class white background.  So life was easier for me.  But that doesn’t mean that the prospects are impossible for those kids from the inner city.  It doesn’t mean that there are no opportunities for them.   Or that the 1% control the world and the rest of us have to fight over the scraps left behind.  I don’t believe that.  I believe that everyone in this country has a chance to succeed.  Still.  In 2011.  Even a poor black kid in West Philadelphia.

If I was a poor black kid I’d use the free technology available to help me study.  I’d become expert at Google Scholar.   I’d visit study sites like SparkNotes and CliffsNotes to help me understand books.  I’d watch relevant teachings on Academic Earth, TED and the Khan Academy.  (I say relevant because some of these lectures may not be related to my work or too advanced for my age. But there are plenty of videos on these sites that are suitable to my studies and would help me stand out.)  I would also, when possible, get my books for free at Project Gutenberg and learn how to do research at the CIA World Factbook and Wikipedia to help me with my studies."

but flagship a rapper for saying, "Hang with gangs, that hang and bang/ Animals, arrangatangs, hammers move, bangers bang."

And not only that, the rapper has far more reach than the writer does. Everytime someone tries to do something good, he gets a bag full of !%%# from critics who allow just about everything else. I'm not saying you can't listen to that !%%# if you want to, just stop getting in the way of people who are helping with your exaggerated and discouraging critiques. Some of you guys are saying he hasn't done enough -- this guy is a writer, so he helped in the way that he could. Its annoying, to say the least, when I see someone legitimately trying to do something good but its discouraged, and all the stupid !%%# in this world gets people praised and paid.

 

[sillyputty]

Ok everyone, lets play a game.





1. What if the author had spent time working in the hood and trying to fix these problems? 




2. What if the author had donated money to addressing these things? 




3. What if the author learned more about the causes of the issues facing the black community.




4. What if the author had held meetings with congressmen, sponsored dialogues with education academics, and organized activist events to promote systemic socioeconomic change?










Would that make you feel better?







Now how does a list of educational websites, people to talk to, and skills to learn make black kids look bad? 

How does that invalidate any of his suggestions about success for any poor black student? 













You still have to work hard. 

Still have to get good grades. 

Still have to put your best foot forward. 

Still have to want to succeed. 



















Crack-cocaine, money, no father at home, resources, nutrition, teen pregnancy, musical influences, government assistance, run-down neighborhoods, etc. 




You know what those are?




Obstacles. Excuses. Scapegoats. 
















These things are easy to blame.




Now how can we over come them? 




Legislation in favor of minorities? Sure...but that takes forever. Lets keep trying at this though...we're slowly making progress...




IN THE MEAN TIME...how about we throw in a list of sites students can go home with RIGHT NOW. 




TONIGHT Tyrone can get an A on his homework. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn how to meet his guidance conselors. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn WHAT to search google, not just how to search. 

TONIGHT Tyrone can watch a video on a part of class he missed. 
















Its not success if everyone does it. Remember that. Its not easy for everyone. We all have a different path to follow. 













All this academia and articles has to be COUPLED with actual attempts at offering suggestions to youth that struggle AS WE SPEAK. 

There is a kid sitting in class RIGHT NOW eager to know about more options out there. But ya'll wanna talk about changes that will take 5-10 years to see the effects of. Giving even a kid a list of things to look into will expose him to that many more things by proxy of endeavors to undertake. They might run into something else. 

Ya'll wanna talk about problems but are ANY of you offering suggestions?

 

[nawlinsjunkie]

^Don't try to convince people by using logical arguments. All they are gonna say is "You're sheltered

"

  No point in trying to argue with people who are holding their own race back

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

the point is still being missed

Not that what he said, but who said it. As if that really matters.

If Jesse or Sharpton said this, people would be applauding. 

its not that he's white...its that hes so disconnected they are just idle words

jesse and sharpton wouldnt say this...thats my entire +$@#%@% point

(i happen to dislike both jesse and sharpton)

see, they have perspective on the issue, they know its not as simple as "focus on reading"



this !$@!@ silly putty said "online calculator"

"kids in africa study by candle light"

we're in......america, tho......

where nobody is living as substandardly as africans, right?

oh.

i mean, everyone has a shot, i'd argue living as substandardly as if you were in africa isnt much of a shot...if a shot at all.



yes, african americans are different than carribean americans....hence the names.

thats a personal way of classifying and defining the word "african american"

silly, the mere fact that you respond "racism catches up quick here" shows me that you're missing my point


300 years of SYSTEMATIC (legislation..i.e. legal...i.e. the law of the land) oppression and "racism" isnt the same


you have entire family lineages who are ANTI-education? why?

250 years ago the father was denied access to the white system

so they were against it

matter of fact, i wont even use a black example

i had parents who were dropouts literally TEACH their kids that school isnt important...

they were white...poor, but white

that is a feature of the SYSTEM

this is an impact of a SYSTEM

that was INTENDED to give this result

so to be completely oblivious of the system and offer advice like "study real hard" is laughable

only reason im even posting in here is cause i respect putty's mind

i really told myself i wasnt gonna get involved in this post..

"so what if its no new thought"

THEN WE'VE HEARD IT ALREADY

dont you get frustrated when you're in a religious post and on page 52 some lame comes in to say the same +%#* you made a joke out of on the 2nd page?

same difference.

if you're not innovating you're just blowing hot air.

you think inner-city "poor black kids" dont know they need to be able to read?

you think they make a conscious decision to NOT read?

or do you think the system has failed them, allowing an american born citizen to grow up illiterate?

i happen to think its a pattern of a failed system, much more so than "lazy poor black kids who dont value the ability to read"

i got kids here that are removed from class because of behavior so much its no wonder they're reading 4 grade levels behind

this is a systematic problem, which wont be solved with ideas as regurgitated, simple and presumptious as "try harder"

no +%#* black people have to try harder to be successful

what a innovative thinker this guy is...

my point in him being oblivious and out of touch......isnt because hes white so he cant criticize.....its because he has no idea what hes talking about

the population he's speaking to from a position of authority, he has absolutely no idea about....

the experience he's telling "poor black kids" how to navigate? he cant even IMAGINE the reality

its like stevie wonder giving you advice about where to place security cameras in your house...you know, speaking like an authority on line of sight....

its literally that much of a joke to me.


this is preemptive

dont respond to this post with a straw man tactic of telling me im a hypocrite or relating anything other than the fact that dude is oblivious to the experience he is advising people how to navigate successfully....



cause thats the only point that matters

*waits for the "so just cause he's white" response about 14 more times before the post is locked*


for heavens sake a middle aged white man who hasnt even smelled the hood is telling poor black kids how to navigate hood life? word?

that's not ridiculous to yall?

thats not like the random 20-something guy on judge joe brown telling the "judge" what the law states?

thats not like a completely drug-and-alcohol-free person (who has never seen drugs, let alone tried them) running a sobriety center, working directly with addicts to help them break their addiction?

why do you think we hire people who were once homeless to work in homeless shelters?

why are AA meetings run by former alocholics? why not get people who have never tried alcohol, obviously they have the strongest willpower

at those AA meetings, people who have never taken a single sip of alcohol will give alcoholics advice on how to avoid alcohol....

you know, they'll give them advice like "dont drink" and "when there are drinks, leave the area" right?

real helpful.

about as helpful as an out-of-touch, completely perspectiveless white man from the suburbs telling "poor black kids" how to survive the hood and overcome odds he doesnt even UNDERSTAND himself....

1. What if the author had spent time working in the hood and trying to fix these problems? 




2. What if the author had donated money to addressing these things? 




3. What if the author learned more about the causes of the issues facing the black community.




4. What if the author had held meetings with congressmen, sponsored dialogues with education academics, and organized activist events to promote systemic socioeconomic change?










Would that make you feel better?

my entire point is, silly, that IF he had spent time in the hood with the population he is giving advice to

HE WOULDNT HAVE WRITTEN THE ARTICLE

HE WOULDNT HAVE SAID "just try harder"

HE WOULD HAVE PERSPECTIVE

AND HIS WRITINGS WOULD CLOSER MIRROR THE WRITINGS OF THOSE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THE HOOD WITH LOW-SOCIOECONOMIC POPULATIONS

the only dudes speaking from that position are OBLIVIOUS to the reality of the hood


  

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

TONIGHT Tyrone can get an A on his homework. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn how to meet his guidance conselors. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn WHAT to search google, not just how to search. 

TONIGHT Tyrone can watch a video on a part of class he missed. 

on his ditto that the teacher printed out 5 minutes before bolting for her house in the suburbs, well after she picks her kids up from the suburban district she sends them to instead of the TERRIBLE school she works at...

guidance counselors? LMAO i never once saw any guidance counselor in any high school and i went to 5 of them...i also got a full ride to Ohio State without meeting with ONE counselor from my school district. am i going to say "look, i did it, why cant tyrone?" no, because tyrone may not have been fortunate enough to have the support, knowledge and motivations i did.

here you go with google....as if tyrone has electricity, let alone a computer or smart phone.

tyrone can watch what video who recorded on what tv where? what teacher is going to let tyrone, this lazy thug who doesnt care about school, rewatch a lecture they gave on THEIR time? who's gonna pay for the tape the camcorder is using?



again, the other side will say "excuses excuses excuses"

im simply offering perspective through examples that contradict your "hypotheticals"

not every situation is solvable by "try harder...use google"

silly, there are people born in the country 100000000 times worse off than you and me. just because you and i defied the statistical outcome, doesnt mean everyone else is that LUCKY, thats right, LUCKY

even with hard work and dedication, people still lose.....

every loser isnt lazy

every winner didnt work hard

every winner does owe that success, in part, to being fortunate enough though sheer statistics alone.

not every poor black kid who cant read is illiterate by choice

stop arguing that "try harder" is awesome advice that will solve every issue of "the hood"

again, had this dude had ANY perspective, this article wouldnt exist.

so dont ask me "what if he was martin luther king who wrote it"

cause this ignorant, oblivious advice wouldnt come from someone with even an iota of perspective.

like, i dont even think you could have wrote something like this silly, which is why im actually kinda interested in how you can agree so wholeheartedly

am i saying that learning how to read is NOT what kids need to do? no.

am i saying that "try harder" is a laughable peice of advice from someone oblivious to what kind of trying is actually occuring this very moment? yes.

 

[sillyputty]

CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:

1. What if the author had spent time working in the hood and trying to fix these problems? 




2. What if the author had donated money to addressing these things? 




3. What if the author learned more about the causes of the issues facing the black community.




4. What if the author had held meetings with congressmen, sponsored dialogues with education academics, and organized activist events to promote systemic socioeconomic change?










Would that make you feel better?

my entire point is, silly, that IF he had spent time in the hood with the population he is giving advice to

HE WOULDNT HAVE WRITTEN THE ARTICLE

HE WOULDNT HAVE SAID "just try harder"

HE WOULD HAVE PERSPECTIVE

AND HIS WRITINGS WOULD CLOSER MIRROR THE WRITINGS OF THOSE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THE HOOD WITH LOW-SOCIOECONOMIC POPULATIONS

the only dudes speaking from that position are OBLIVIOUS to the reality of the hood


  

All this article does is list things that can help kids RIGHT NOW.



I can have all the perspective in the world about the clean water crisis in south asia ...but if im not sending iodine tablets or brita filters, WHO CARES? 




All this talk...but we wanna criticize the guy who offers some tips.




This is the epitome of slacktivism (slacker + activism). 




Its like when people pray for victims of earthquakes. Why don't you at least donate some money, volunteer your time, or send a care package? Stuff people can actually use RIGHT NOW? 




You wanna talk about Occupy Wall Street and how important it is? Well go JOIN them.




This is the problem with liberal education in my opinion...its limited by its own nature to actually moving beyond the discussion phase. Its great because it grants students the ability to be empathetic with the conditions of those surrounding them, but where in that does it offer solutions?




We learn about institutionalized racism...but WHAT are you doing to change it?




Perspective or not...does that change the importance of the suggestions in this article? 




The author DOES have perspective. 

1. He says his kids are no better or smarter than kids in the hood. 

2. He knows hes "Just a white guy in the 'burbs." 

3. He knows life is easier for white people.

4. He knows things are disproprotionally harder for minorities.

5. He knows the things minorities lack like resources, and socioeconomic disparities.

6. HE ADMITS THE LIMITS OF HIS OWN PERSPECTIVE.




But what do you all do? You call him unworthy of commenting.




You all are unworthy of any help. You can't keep biting the hand that TRIES to feed you.




If a black leader had written this article it would have gotten:




A. NO PRESS WHAT-SO-EVER

B. Anyone who read it in the first place would have praised it. 




Why? Its implied that black people "relate" more. 




What is it going to take to show you that white people CAN be just as empathetic WHILE enjoying their life of privilege? 





EDIT: BTW, Curb, I respect you a great deal but don't front on me like that. Sending home a sheet of websites to help kids is more to them TONIGHT than us talking about it online and posting comments to message boards about how to fix congress to write better laws in a process that takes years. 

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

also, dont strawman me, bro, reserve that for these lesser NTers.

the fact that im not offering advice doesnt mean i cant criticize this guy or his poor article.


i dont have to offer #++$ to criticize him.

those are two completely separate actions.


as far as the kid sitting in class eager to learn?

thats the problem, he SHOULD be getting more than what he needs from the GOVERNMENT FUNDED CLASSROOM HES SITTING IN, WHY DOES HE NEED A WHITE MAN WHO CANT RELATE TO HIM IN ANY ASPECT OTHER THAN BEING HUMAN TO TELL HIM HOW TO MAKE IT OUT OF A SITUATION HE CANT EVEN FATHOM?

shouldnt he be learning more than enough in his classroom he's required by law to sit in?

but the horrible system that ISNT educating him isnt to blame, no, its HIM.....cause he didnt teach himself to read at 5 (even tho his moms cant read or keep lights on, or keep food in the house) and didnt value education in an environment where education is a joke.....NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT VALUE IT, BUT BECAUSE ITS SO POOR AND SUBSTANDARD ITS LITERALLY A JOKE



im begging to hear people contradict this.

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

get off the white vs. black debate this author's poor %%+ article inspired.

im speaking on ONE white man who lacks perspective.

. He knows life is easier for white people.
what does this entail?

they dont get pulled over by cops?

or the fact that positive male role models are completely void from a majority of "poor black kids" lives?

does he even understand the kind of impact the absence of male figures has on a population?

this is what i mean by he's not qualified

no, not because hes white....

no, not because he's not black...

BECAUSE HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TELLING THESE KIDS HOW TO SUCCEED AT

"try harder"


bro, i can say 'try harder" and give, in your opinion, amazing advice to ANY ISSUE YOU HAVE IN LIFE EVER


"aw man, i failed physics"

"try harder"


"oh man, im not gonna make rent this month"

"try harder"




bruh, you're so all over the place, its funny


you criticize me because im all talk and empathy and no action

yet praising this guy who is all talk and no action

LMAO

he wont even interact with the population he is the authority on how to fix or save

if you were the upmost authority on the asian water crisis, yes, advice you give is more important than any advice i give on it, not being the authority

you knowing more about the situation in question gives you a stronger qualification to speak on solutions


for example

i might say "just build a steel pipe with fresh water, duh"

but you might know that the marshlands have salt deposits which will erode the steel within a year and contaminate the drinking water


much like this dude is telling kids to "focus on reading"

no mention on how to get your hands on a book worth reading

nope, just read.


i really cannot fathom how you do not acknowledge how ridiculous the notion of someone completely oblivious to a population giving that population advice on how to do anything, especially how to overcome historically crippling problems.....


especially with "stay in school and try hard" quotes directly from the teenage mutant ninja turtles episode where splinter gets kidnapped.....

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

also, dont strawman me, bro, reserve that for these lesser NTers.

the fact that im not offering advice doesnt mean i cant criticize this guy or his poor article.


i dont have to offer #++$ to criticize him.

those are two completely separate actions.


as far as the kid sitting in class eager to learn?

thats the problem, he SHOULD be getting more than what he needs from the GOVERNMENT FUNDED CLASSROOM HES SITTING IN, WHY DOES HE NEED A WHITE MAN WHO CANT RELATE TO HIM IN ANY ASPECT OTHER THAN BEING HUMAN TO TELL HIM HOW TO MAKE IT OUT OF A SITUATION HE CANT EVEN FATHOM?

shouldnt he be learning more than enough in his classroom he's required by law to sit in?

but the horrible system that ISNT educating him isnt to blame, no, its HIM.....cause he didnt teach himself to read at 5 (even tho his moms cant read or keep lights on, or keep food in the house) and didnt value education in an environment where education is a joke.....NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT VALUE IT, BUT BECAUSE ITS SO POOR AND SUBSTANDARD ITS LITERALLY A JOKE

im begging to hear people contradict this.

Well props to the single mother who works 4 jobs or is a stripper to make it happen for her son cause she cares THAT MUCH to see him make something out of nothing.



YOU MUST HUSTLE TO SURVIVE.




THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE. 




If it won't get any easier, maybe all poor people should just give up and wait on us lucky people to change things for them. 




And remember, i'm a liberal guy...you know me homie. You know how I think...but to assert that telling a kid that hes going to have to work 10x harder than his white peers is WRONG, shows a lack of realism. 




At least i'm not fooling the kid when he wakes up THIS MORNING. 


Look tyrone...tomorrow is going to suck. 




You're going to cold, wet, and hungry.




The world will hate you. 




People will want to see you fail. 




But you know what, instead of trying to make the best of your situation, just wait on everyone else to help you out. 

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

Originally Posted by sillyputty






EDIT: BTW, Curb, I respect you a great deal but don't front on me like that. Sending home a sheet of websites to help kids is more to them TONIGHT than us talking about it online and posting comments to message boards about how to fix congress to write better laws in a process that takes years. 

son, what good is a *%+$!%@ sheet if they dont have electricity?

what good is a sheet if they dont even go home, they meet up with a gang until 1130, cause they have no home to go home to?

you're offering suburban solutions to a monster of an entirely different proportion

if a kid is failing and cant read in the burbs, yes, a sheet of websites will do a great deal to help him.

telling him to focus on reading and writing and not xbox and niketalk will do him great justice

if the suburbs are the only perspective you have to draw from when giving advice

how in the *#!% can you tell someone how to survive or navigate something you are OBLIVIOUS to?

dog, READ WHAT IM TYPING


HOW CAN YOU TELL SOMEONE HOW TO NAVIGATE SOMETHING YOU ARE COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO?




thats like me, a kid from ohio, telling henzo, a kid from NYC, how to drive around the city....

"nah, son, you gotta take 3rd ave to 155th street"

"ive never driven in the city, actually, ill be honest, ive never even seen a picture of the city, but trust me, take 3rd ave to 155th street.....if you cannot follow that simple direction, you just WANT to be lost as *#!%"

meanwhile, 3rd ave doesnt even intersect with 155th street


that's this...but serious.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Originally Posted by sillyputty






EDIT: BTW, Curb, I respect you a great deal but don't front on me like that. Sending home a sheet of websites to help kids is more to them TONIGHT than us talking about it online and posting comments to message boards about how to fix congress to write better laws in a process that takes years. 

son, what good is a *%+$!%@ sheet if they dont have electricity?

what good is a sheet if they dont even go home, they meet up with a gang until 1130, cause they have no home to go home to?

you're offering suburban solutions to a monster of an entirely different proportion

if a kid is failing and cant read in the burbs, yes, a sheet of websites will do a great deal to help him.

telling him to focus on reading and writing and not xbox and niketalk will do him great justice

if the suburbs are the only perspective you have to draw from when giving advice

how in the *#!% can you tell someone how to survive or navigate something you are OBLIVIOUS to?

dog, READ WHAT IM TYPING


HOW CAN YOU TELL SOMEONE HOW TO NAVIGATE SOMETHING YOU ARE COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO?

What is your suggestion to fix the problem?



Listing more problems?




Throw away the suggestions of the white guy in the suburbs. He's not "real" enough for us. 

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

how is my argument even "wait for someone else to help you out"? because i criticize the article and its author?


not gonna work over here bro

but to assert that telling a kid that hes going to have to work 10x harder than his white peers is WRONG, shows a lack of realism. 
who said that?

when did i say telling people theyre going to have to work harder than their peers is wrong?

whats wrong is the ignorant giving advice on how to succeed at something which they have no idea about.

"youre going to have to work harder" isnt wrong

the "the only thing holding you back from success is yourself" bit is wrong.

the "only reason why youre in the situation youre in now is because you arent making learning how to read your number 1 priority" is wrong

no he didnt expressly say that

but i mean, its basically the argument you're defending....its certainly the criticism i am making...

YOU MUST HUSTLE TO SURVIVE.
duh *#$%+, why you think kids from the hood can eye ball ounce measurements but cant read 4 syllable words?


oh.

thats my entire point...

the hustle to survive in the suburbs IS GOING TO SCHOOL AND GETTING GOOD GRADES

the hustle to survive in the hood is NOT GETTING SHOT IN THE FACE

the hustle to survive in the hood is largely illegal....and mostly the complete OPPOSITE of "go to school and focus on reading books"

dudes wanna talk greasy about the mother of 4 who sells her foodstamps for cash

thats hustling to survive.

is it "reading alot of books and getting good grades"?

no.

her 4 kids cant eat no grades, b

imma laugh now at the response of "she can get a job"

the exact lack of perspective in question

yes, a job she can work around raising 4 different children

who, had she been a suburban mother, would probably have a father who would support the household

but again, thats not something a middle-aged white man fathoms

it's HER fault that black men are largely absent from households due to SYSTEMATIC measures......

its the CHILDS fault......

oh no, im not offering an alternative solution to "try harder"

all criticism is voided

(you know i respect you too, dork. relax.)

 

[curbyourenthusiasm]

its not about being real either. don't make up arguments that are easy to dismiss instead of addressing the points im raising to you silly.

ive admitted several times that "try harder" isnt innately WRONG

its the "try harder because thats the only reason you're not successful" tone of the entire paper

that tone is obvious BECAUSE he lacks perspective.

it all ties together.

the lack of perspective gives him this idea that its moreso self-responsibility than systematic outcomes....

anywho who spends even a day in the hood comes out with perspective

perspective that would kill articles like this from ever being typed out






like i said, he acknowledges his kids are different from the poor black kids

but does he really understand the differences?

does he understand the systematic oppression and its effects, or is he just making a general cliche "i know were different" claim so he can THEN continue with the rest of his article? oh



again, you keep ignoring my question




how can someone give advice to a population from a position of authority when they are beyond oblivious to the population and the situation they're advising?

he understands what a poor black kid is....as a noun.....

does he REALLY understand what being a poor black kid means? how it feels? what its like?

then how can he tell them how to navigate their lives?

he has no idea how hard or easy making "reading my number 1 priority" is...

when i say easy and hard

i dont mean like math easy and hard


i mean like is it even possible or not

people love to deny the fact that there are hopeless situations in america...

situations without any solution

why?

CAUSE THATS THE WAY THE SYSTEM WAS SET UP...

THESE ARE THE INTENDED OUTCOMES

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

Brother.



Look...



Even if the system was set up for them to fail.




Even if the white guy never set foot in the hood.




Even if he doesn't understand what it means to be poor and black.




Even if he owned a couple of slaves in his basement at this very moment.




Even if he majored in sociology.



















Please show me ways for these poor black kids to succeed. 

List some ways to help.




This man did more with this article offering suggestions to help poor black kids than you are doing listing problems that black people face. 

Period. 

Solutions > Problems




or 




Better Solutions > Average Solutions




Tell me which you would rather have? 













What is that white cracker gonna tell me? He don't know nothing about how real it is in these streets. he ain't down to ride. I'm done in here. No one can tell ya'll anything because all ya'll wanna do is complain and moan and groan about how much society hates you. If society hates you so much, go do what the white man wants, and die already. Just kick the bucket since you'll let them tell you how worthless you are. You are a useless piece of crap and no one cares about you. Dont even take advice anymore. It won't matter. You won't amount to anything anyways you piece of black scum. They hate you so much that you get mad when they try to help you. Lets just drop out of school anyways. If I cant learn everything then i'll learn nothing. If I can't get rich, i'll just stay poor. I can't pay my bills so I won't even try any more. I'd rather die of starvation than try to learn something. I'd rather shoot my neighbor than take an extra job to survive or try to teach myself. Life is hard and its pointless to try. If I can't get everything handed out to me then its all my fault anyways. Ain't nothing I can do about it. 

Black People should just GIVE UP. 

Ain't no point in living. White people just wanna see us hang.

 

[deuce king]

son, what good is a *%+$!%@ sheet if they dont have electricity?

what good is a sheet if they dont even go home, they meet up with a gang until 1130, cause they have no home to go home to?

you're offering suburban solutions to a monster of an entirely different proportion

 

These statements you just provided are extreme IMO to say the least.  What is the percentage of kids in the hood that either don't have electricity or don't even have a home to go home to as you suggest or say??  I do know that this happens to be the case for some kids and certain situations for some families in the hood, but I will say it's NOT the majority.  Since its not the majority, these suggestions and resources given by the writer can helpful.