Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[noodles]

praying to god for so long, now a classified atheist

 

[retrospect90]

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. Ihighly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that peoplecause, there has to be an atonement.

A question for the Christians... do birds have an afterlife? Ant's, bee's, fish? There is no alterior motive to the question, I am just curious to what Christians think.
Hmmm, I don't know. I would think so but I'm not sure if they have souls. Good question.

 

[retrospect90]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by JFMartiMcDandruff

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

Because of this, which I asked in another thread-

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

I'm assuming we all know a little bit about Ghandi and his philosophy. He practiced non-violence, and through that he was able to help gain Indian Independence and civil rights for his people. He was all about peace and was a genuinely good soul, right? Now do you, most specifically Christians, believe that at this very moment and for the rest of eternity, Ghandi is burning and suffering in hell, right beside people like Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin? Regardless of the way he lived his life, do you believe Ghandi deserves that fate because he practiced Hinduism, and never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior?

I just don't believe that a good person deserves to suffer for eternity because he didn't accept anothers religion. I also don't agree with homosexuality being a ticket to hell for the same reasoning.Those are the main reasons I stopped practicing. And I went punctually to church for about 3 years. I finally realized that I just don't agree with it.

True. I always wonder that too. Stuff is contradicting

That's the dramatic irony in this "allegorical story." The fact that Gandhi, Mother Theresa, MLK, Malcolm X, Aristotle, King Tut,and others all died of sickness, famine, abuse or assassination is only further proof that the Trinity will prevail, no matter what seemingly insurmountableodds are placed against it.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

Why would his creations rebel against him? But maybe Hell is just a place with God. Maybe that's torture enough.

 

[360wavesandxbox]

Do atheists celebrate Christmas?
I have always wondered..
And this is an honest question..I, myself don't even celebrate it yet i am Christian..Nor do i believe in a trinity..However i do believe in Jesus, andGod..I just don't think that they are one and the same...

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

Why would his creations rebel against him? But maybe Hell is just a place with God. Maybe that's torture enough.

 

[retrospect90]

RKO2004. We are imperfect, and of course god didn't plan on it being this way but it happened b/c of Adam and Eve. That is why christ died for us. I wouldlike to continue this convo but my momma just told me to cut the grass. I'll check back in though.

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

RKO2004. We are imperfect, and of course god didn't plan on it being this way but it happened b/c of Adam and Eve. That is why christ died for us. I would like to continue this convo but my momma just told me to cut the grass. I'll check back in though.

But why would God tempt them with the tree? Isn't "tempting someone to sin" a sin in itself? And not just any tree, but the tree that let themknow good from evil? How could they know what they were doing was wrong?

And why would they be ashamed of their nakedness? How is nakedness evil?

 

[m4csheesh]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by RKO2004

So if millions of years of evolution couldn't produce the human body, than how can some divine being with no proof of it's existence do it in a day?

An all and powerful being? If His powers are endless then whats stopping him? So basically you don't believe that its possible to be that powerful right?

Us humans are creators. Animals are creators. Wouldn't we need someone to create us too?

Look, using the god card doesn't work when trying to explain the legitimacy of god. I don't know that that makes sense. You can't use "well he can do anything" to refute scientific evidence. It doesn't work like that. You can't use something that you don't understand as your explanation as to why you can't explain something. It's the equivalent of the teacher asking you to use the word 'god' in a sentence and you respond 'My teacher asked me to use 'god' in a sentence."

A random event occurring out of nothing, then over time all this we see here is because of evolution and not a supreme being that designed everything? Gravity, the Sun at just the right distance for us, our protective atmosphere, the human body, the way us and plants interact? God's design maybe?


Can religious people believe in something happening for actual random reasons? Why is random such a hard concept to grasp? What is wrong with saying things have happened by accident? It reminds me of a quote from Ricky Gervais. "Nature is more beautiful when you know it's an accident. Art is more beautiful when you know that man is an accident."


This is the same argument I made repeatedly to myself. Using the God card to prove God is circular logic. But then I realized using thescientific method instead for your argument is making a similar leap of faith.

What those using scientific arguments to disprove the existence of God don't realize is that they are putting the same amount of faith into the validity of their explanations as those believers who affirm God's existence unquestionably without scientificexplanations. The scientific method has been around for a while now and granted it has been very effective at proving the validity of things under its OWNterms. Yet, the validity of the scientific method itself as a way to affirm validity cannot be proved by the scientific method. There is no absoluteauthority guaranteeing that truth of the scientific method itself as a system of reason and logic we should be using besides the fact that it works with theway we see the world. Thus, those using science to disprove God are using a different type of faith to do it;faith that the world can be explained by the human mind.

So no matter what your basis for arguing for or against the existence of God, faith is ever-present in many of your arguments whether you care to realize it ornot. When I realized this, I figured it made absolutely no sense for me to deny God. For what?

Disclaimer: I am a non-practicing Muslim that believes in God but has questioned God's existence on multiple occasions.

 

[360wavesandxbox]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

Why would his creations rebel against him? But maybe Hell is just a place with God. Maybe that's torture enough.

Well for those that would look at the bible and research it without notions of what pastors shove down your throats you would see that God is allowing all thisbadness on earth to teach not only us a lesson but his angels as well. When Lucifer rebelled at first and took some rebellious angels with him, God could haveeasily destroyed them and ended the whole thing right there..Then adam and eve wouldnt have been led astray or anything..

But what would any other onlookers in heaven have thought? What would stop another one from trying again to do the same thing? Nothing..So this is why God isallowing Lucifer (or Satan) to influence the world soo much. From the very beginning he prophesied that the dragon(luficer, Satan) would be hurled down onearth, and be like a lion knowing he has a Short period of time. Jesus went on to say things would get worse during the "last days". Notice howthings seem to be getting worse worldwide? Famine,War, terrorism? Its because the Devil has such heavy iinfluence on everything.
Why?
Because God wants everyone to see what will become of the world if anyone were to have their way and rule over it like Satan is trying to do now. And we cansee how everything is..in shambles..WHen he comes back and restores everything after judgement day, the devil will be crushed along with his rebellious angels,and everything will be peaceful...
Just a little glimpse in the thought process i was taught..

And its funny how for years i have been taught that the world was going to come to an end at a point when no one will expect it...when mankind will think theyhave reached their Height of Peace and Security...And the night Obama was announced as the winner of the election in his first speech..what did he emphasize? Bringing about "Peace and Security!" Coincidence..
Just remember this, the bible also tells of the Government turning on false religion, and ultimately destroying it..so when you guys start seeing and hearingabout this stuff on the news dont even be shocked...most of you have heard it here first..

 

[an dee 51o]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

If there's a heaven, there almost has to be hell. Just like how if there's a God, there has to be a devil. Binary opposition...

Not saying I believe or not, I'm still trying to figure out stuff for myself.

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

Why would his creations rebel against him? But maybe Hell is just a place with God. Maybe that's torture enough.

Well for those that would look at the bible and research it without notions of what pastors shove down your throats you would see that God is allowing all this badness on earth to teach not only us a lesson but his angels as well. When Lucifer rebelled at first and took some rebellious angels with him, God could have easily destroyed them and ended the whole thing right there..Then adam and eve wouldnt have been led astray or anything..

But what would any other onlookers in heaven have thought? What would stop another one from trying again to do the same thing? Nothing..So this is why God is allowing Lucifer (or Satan) to influence the world soo much. From the very beginning he prophesied that the dragon(luficer, Satan) would be hurled down on earth, and be like a lion knowing he has a Short period of time. Jesus went on to say things would get worse during the "last days". Notice how things seem to be getting worse worldwide? Famine,War, terrorism? Its because the Devil has such heavy iinfluence on everything.
Why?
Because God wants everyone to see what will become of the world if anyone were to have their way and rule over it like Satan is trying to do now. And we can see how everything is..in shambles..WHen he comes back and restores everything after judgement day, the devil will be crushed along with his rebellious angels, and everything will be peaceful...
Just a little glimpse in the thought process i was taught..

And its funny how for years i have been taught that the world was going to come to an end at a point when no one will expect it...when mankind will think they have reached their Height of Peace and Security...And the night Obama was announced as the winner of the election in his first speech..what did he emphasize? Bringing about "Peace and Security!" Coincidence..
Just remember this, the bible also tells of the Government turning on false religion, and ultimately destroying it..so when you guys start seeing and hearing about this stuff on the news dont even be shocked...most of you have heard it here first..

Exactly, bro. I don't want to sound like some conspiracy theorist, but I remain ever-vigilant on a daily basis, and the headlines flashingacross the marquees everyday only do more to reinforce my mentality.

 

[retrospect90]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by retrospect90

RKO2004. We are imperfect, and of course god didn't plan on it being this way but it happened b/c of Adam and Eve. That is why christ died for us. I would like to continue this convo but my momma just told me to cut the grass. I'll check back in though.

But why would God tempt them with the tree? Isn't "tempting someone to sin" a sin in itself? And not just any tree, but the tree that let them know good from evil? How could they know what they were doing was wrong?

And why would they be ashamed of their nakedness? How is nakedness evil?

It was a simple instruction. Adam had everything set before him, and keep in mind they were perfect. They could have anything they wanted but that treebut Godtold him not to eat from it. Satan is the one that tempted Eve who in turn got Adam to eat from it. Once they ate from that tree, they werent perfect anymorehence them thinking that they needed to cover up.

 

[retrospect90]

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

If there's a heaven, there almost has to be hell. Just like how if there's a God, there has to be a devil. Binary opposition...

Not saying I believe or not, I'm still trying to figure out stuff for myself.

Well just coming from the bible, it doesnt indicate that once a person dies that they will experience pain. Eccl. 9:5 says that "the living are consciousthat they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...." Ps. 146: 4 says "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;in that day his thoughts do perish." The Bible doesnt indicate that the "soul" survives the death of the body either. Ezek. 18:4 says "thesoul that is sinning-it itself will die." These scriptures are from my bible, but they should besimilar in other translations.

 

[360wavesandxbox]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

If there's a heaven, there almost has to be hell. Just like how if there's a God, there has to be a devil. Binary opposition...

Not saying I believe or not, I'm still trying to figure out stuff for myself.

Well just coming from the bible, it doesnt indicate that once a person dies that they will experience pain. Eccl. 9:5 says that "the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...." Ps. 146: 4 says "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." The Bible doesnt indicate that the "soul" survives the death of the body either. Ezek. 18:4 says "the soul that is sinning-it itself will die." These scriptures are from my bible, but they should be similar in other translations.

Exactly..Hell is a made-up doctrine..No one burns in Hellfire as Most christian religions will have you believe..Hell was concieved from the"lake of fire" mentioned in the bible which is where the devil will end up after God comes and reclaims control over the earth..
If hell was real, who would be there?
The day that i actually dismissed hell from existence is after the Oklahoma city bombing incident, and the preacher that was doing McVeigh's funeral hopedthat god would find a spot for him in heaven.. I was like are you SERIOUS? If a mass bombing domestic terrorist doesnt go to hell then definitely couldnt putregular murderers and every day criminals there..
And for those questioning what god was doing before he created earth...See the "How large the Earth is" post or whatever diagramming the earth inrelationship to other celestial objects. There are TRILLIONs of stars and planets and galaxies.
And to get a perspective on God's lifetime would be beyond humankind's comprehension anyways for those who can't make sense of it...Put it thisway..During the "days" that god created earth, those were not literal days, they took place over thousands of years. So lets say it took AT LEAST7000 years for the earth to form. mankind's existence in general in God's eyes has been yet a few of his "days". A whole human lifetimemight be a couple of minutes to him...It would really be beyond any of our comprehension to believe or understand, but this is why he has left us so many cluesand examples. Science, Living sentient species besides ourselves, fossil records, and finally, most importantly the BIBLE...

 

[kadafi99]

bible is a book to teach morals thru stories, its stories r based off egyptian tales

story of osiris = kane + abel
bible isnt history.

 

[mjsaver]

experiencing life......

real life doesnt add up, the way priests and such would have u believe.

 

[y0ung j33zy]

I've been thinking God came to many people with the same message but it got misinterpreted(sp?)..thus having different religions bothmono/polytheistic

 

[russ tha g]

What am I to do? Who am I to turn to? Every man is in the same boat because all they have is "faith" on which to believe, which can only be so sturdy.

I think man should learn to turn to one another rather than to a higher power. "Birds of a feather," right? Dogs are extremely obedient to man - wecan domesticate any type of creature (nearly). What is supposed to make humans "superior" is how we can communicate and theorize. We, as humans,should be able to find comfort in ourselves - or at least in one another. Coincidently, the reverse of dog is God, too. Why should us super-minded creatures besubservient to this maybe-yes maybe-no existing entity?

Religion, Christianity in particular, is social control. In the old times, kings would amend religious codes (most notably to allow divorce) like agovernmental document - because that's all they were back then. People have become fanatical about it because it's administered to us in a way that issupposed to trick us into believing it without ever doubting it out of the fear of going to hell... think for yourself, folks.

 

[kb8sandiego]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Do atheists celebrate Christmas?
I have always wondered..
And this is an honest question..I, myself don't even celebrate it yet i am Christian..Nor do i believe in a trinity..However i do believe in Jesus, and God..I just don't think that they are one and the same...

They aren't.

God and Jesus. Two different existences.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Hell was probably started just to scare people into doing the right thing. Is not even in the bible, there is no such thing

Well in that case, there will be some splitting up. People who have lived right (I'm not the judge of that so don't ask) and people who chose not to. I highly doubt we're here just to live and do whatever, every system we have in place stems from actions having reactions. For all the wrong that people cause, there has to be an atonement.

IMO that is what death is for. Romans 6:23. Why would a loving god allow someone to be tortured?

If there's a heaven, there almost has to be hell. Just like how if there's a God, there has to be a devil. Binary opposition...

Not saying I believe or not, I'm still trying to figure out stuff for myself.

Well just coming from the bible, it doesnt indicate that once a person dies that they will experience pain. Eccl. 9:5 says that "the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...." Ps. 146: 4 says "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." The Bible doesnt indicate that the "soul" survives the death of the body either. Ezek. 18:4 says "the soul that is sinning-it itself will die." These scriptures are from my bible, but they should be similar in other translations.

Exactly..Hell is a made-up doctrine..No one burns in Hellfire as Most christian religions will have you believe..Hell was concieved from the "lake of fire" mentioned in the bible which is where the devil will end up after God comes and reclaims control over the earth..
If hell was real, who would be there?
The day that i actually dismissed hell from existence is after the Oklahoma city bombing incident, and the preacher that was doing McVeigh's funeral hoped that god would find a spot for him in heaven.. I was like are you SERIOUS? If a mass bombing domestic terrorist doesnt go to hell then definitely couldnt put regular murderers and every day criminals there..
And for those questioning what god was doing before he created earth...See the "How large the Earth is" post or whatever diagramming the earth in relationship to other celestial objects. There are TRILLIONs of stars and planets and galaxies.
And to get a perspective on God's lifetime would be beyond humankind's comprehension anyways for those who can't make sense of it...Put it this way..During the "days" that god created earth, those were not literal days, they took place over thousands of years. So lets say it took AT LEAST 7000 years for the earth to form. mankind's existence in general in God's eyes has been yet a few of his "days". A whole human lifetime might be a couple of minutes to him...It would really be beyond any of our comprehension to believe or understand, but this is why he has left us so many clues and examples. Science, Living sentient species besides ourselves, fossil records, and finally, most importantly the BIBLE...

You've really been on point today man. Props

. Props to everyone elsetoo.

What happened to everyone? Seems like people dropped out of the convo

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

What am I to do? Who am I to turn to? Every man is in the same boat because all they have is "faith" on which to believe, which can only be so sturdy.

I think man should learn to turn to one another rather than to a higher power. "Birds of a feather," right? Dogs are extremely obedient to man - we can domesticate any type of creature (nearly). What is supposed to make humans "superior" is how we can communicate and theorize. We, as humans, should be able to find comfort in ourselves - or at least in one another. Coincidently, the reverse of dog is God, too. Why should us super-minded creatures be subservient to this maybe-yes maybe-no existing entity?

Religion, Christianity in particular, is social control. In the old times, kings would amend religious codes (most notably to allow divorce) like a governmental document - because that's all they were back then. People have become fanatical about it because it's administered to us in a way that is supposed to trick us into believing it without ever doubting it out of the fear of going to hell... think for yourself, folks.
Even when we think for ourselves its not good enough for atheist and etc. I thought for myself when I wanted to learn more about God and Jesus.But I'll be called a sheep anyway because in some people opinions, only sheep follow religion.

Super-minded? Uh I don't know about that one but why shouldn't we be subservient to God? How many signs do you need to see He is there? Look at theworld and then look at the bible. Look at the future of technology, especially those Real I.D. cards and then look at the bible. How any more signsbro?

 

[russ tha g]

A book full of vague stories that can be interpreted to mean just about anything isn't enough proof for me. Nostrodamus "predicted" a lot ofvague things, too - nobody's running around worshipping him.