Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by Korto

Originally Posted by drock2010

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

From a reply I made near the beginning of the thread:

Originally Posted by Korto

When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity". It's unfortunate that so many Christians don't actually understand this though. Just look through the bible, Jesus says things like "look under a rock, and I will be there" - clearly he is talking about God. And this is the same God that Gandhi discovered, the same God that millions of people discovered and gave thousands of different names to, but unfortunately too many people can't see this and start separating "my god" from "your god". Like that saying says: If Jesus and Buddha met, they would hug each other in love, but Jesus' sheeps and Buddha's goats would start to quarrel.

Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from, that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.

I don't really have the time to comment on any other posts, but let me just say a few things. Just because everything in the entire Bible doesn't appeal to you, or just because you've met Christians that seemed like terrible people, doesn't mean that you have to automatically assume that the entire bible or all Christians are garbage. Read the bible (new testament, or any other spiritual scripture from any other religion in the world), take from it what you like, and don't take what you don't like. Maybe come back to it again a bit later, and you'll see that things that seemed ridiculous before now make some sense, or things that seemed profound before now seem normal. If you were walking and you saw a diamond in the mud, you'd pick up the diamond, maybe wash it off a little, and leave the mud behind. Why not do the same with scriptures? If you can find just a single idea in the bible that opens a new door or perspective in your life, you've accomplished more than you will spending your entire life bible-bashing.

If you honestly and intensely seek the truth, it is there, and you will find it. I used to be skeptic, I had many of the questions or suspicions that people in this thread have, but I kept searching and I kept an open mind and now I can honestly say I've found many, many of the answers I was looking for... even to things that at the time seemed like I would never be able to know.

That has to be one the most liberal interpretations of what Christianity is about, and I mean that in the worse way possible. The whole foundation is belief in Jesus as the son of God, and faith in Him. Yes, the 6 foot human. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion, or who taught you that, but by any basic Christian doctrine, that is entirely wrong. Faith in just the Father is not enough to get into Heaven. If you don't accept Christ, no Heaven, this isn't something ambiguous within Christianity. What do you think is separating Christianity for Judaism right now?

Thousand-year-old doctrines and psychological schemas.

Any true Christian will gladly let you know that all you have to do is accept Christ as your savior and recite John 3:16 to get into find your name in the Bookof Life someday.

 

[Moderngz]

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it.Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm meprivately if you have doubt.

 

[kiuyt856]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by Korto

drock2010 wrote:

---

JohnnyRedStorm wrote:

---

armanzaballa wrote:

---

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but
it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or
whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

From a reply I made near the beginning of the thread:

Korto wrote:

---

When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not
the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are
all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity". It's unfortunate that so many Christians don't actually understand this though. Just look
through the bible, Jesus says things like "look under a rock, and I will be there" - clearly he is talking about God. And this is the same God that
Gandhi discovered, the same God that millions of people discovered and gave thousands of different names to, but unfortunately too many people can't see
this and start separating "my god" from "your god". Like that saying says: If Jesus and Buddha met, they would hug each other in love,
but Jesus' sheeps and Buddha's goats would start to quarrel.




Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not
out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is
watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an
athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from,
that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.




I don't really have the time to comment on any other posts, but let me just say a few things. Just because everything in the entire Bible doesn't
appeal to you, or just because you've met Christians that seemed like terrible people, doesn't mean that you have to automatically assume that the
entire bible or all Christians are garbage. Read the bible (new testament, or any other spiritual scripture from any other religion in the world), take from
it what you like, and don't take what you don't like. Maybe come back to it again a bit later, and you'll see that things that seemed ridiculous
before now make some sense, or things that seemed profound before now seem normal. If you were walking and you saw a diamond in the mud, you'd pick up the
diamond, maybe wash it off a little, and leave the mud behind. Why not do the same with scriptures? If you can find just a single idea in the bible that
opens a new door or perspective in your life, you've accomplished more than you will spending your entire life bible-bashing.




If you honestly and intensely seek the truth, it is there, and you will find it. I used to be skeptic, I had many of the questions or suspicions that people
in this thread have, but I kept searching and I kept an open mind and now I can honestly say I've found many, many of the answers I was looking for... even
to things that at the time seemed like I would never be able to know.






That has to be one the most liberal interpretations of what Christianity is about, and I mean that in the worse way possible. The whole foundation is belief in Jesus as the son of God, and faith in Him. Yes, the 6 foot human. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion, or who taught you that, but by any basic Christian doctrine, that is entirely wrong. Faith in just the Father is not enough to get into Heaven. If you don't accept Christ, no Heaven, this isn't something ambiguous within Christianity. What do you think is separating Christianity for Judaism right now?

I agree 100%. Jesus is supposed to be the reason humans are even allowed into heaven, not because of God.
edit- Korto, what you talked about is closer to my beliefs, but that isn't Christianity.

 

[wttm]

Originally Posted by SOleILL

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it. Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm me privately if you have doubt.

why is there the devil?!

 

[jfmartimcdandruff]

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

I always thought that everybody goes to heaven. I mean God loves all his children, no matter what. So why would he send them to hell? He's just playin withyall minds.

 

[kb8sandiego]

Faith in just the Father is not enough to get into Heaven.
According to the Catholic Church but not according to Non-Denominational Christians.

But then again, the Catholic Church made up purgatory and worships the Virgin Mary and statues.

 

[philballa09]

rko and les

...

 

[he told on me]

Not a skeptic, still believe in God. Like the people in the streets say aint no real people no more. Same applies for religion. What has happen with all thefake pastors, fake leaders. I mean my sheopard is a wolf in sheopards clothing. Baiting all the sheep.

 

[joshyy1834]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect. It's not fair, if we are all unique the question of perfection must be turned into a subjective one. I don't think I am perfect, I think that my mom is perfect and my ex was pretty damn close to perfect, are they "Jesus" no, but I don't think even "Jesus" is "Jesus" and God's opinion does't matter that much to me, because he can't set the standard of perfection for my life until he can make my life "perfect", and from what I've seen we are on our own in making life perfect. Don't get it twisted I'm a very faithful person, but the God I believe in has limitations, because I'd rather him not be all powerful than him not be all good.

Scientific evidence has proven Jesus actually lived. He has the reputation throughout the annals of history as being the only perfect person to walk this planet. I think that is as unique as unique gets...

So does Horus, whose story is almost exactly the same and whose story came right before Jesus, also Krishna,a nd Siddartha Guatma(?) So Jesus isn't as unique as people say, there have been a lot of deities similar to Jesus, Horus and Osiris are the closest.

Let me guess, Zeitgeist.

No , Bill Maher's " Religulous " documentary . very worth watching , whatever your beliefs are . Btw , a link , possibly to the scientificevidence ?
not to come off as a jerk , but hey , make me a believer

.

 

[blackmagnus514]

" Religulous "
good Doc...i didnt agree ith some of his points but i saw his POV.

@ his sarcasm

 

[retrospect90]

Originally Posted by wttm

Originally Posted by SOleILL

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it. Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm me privately if you have doubt.

why is there the devil?!

Originally satan was a angel in heaven but things changed...he became jealous turned against God, got a a lot of angels(now demons) to turn against god. It wasa war in heaven and satan and his demons were kicked out. They came to the earth. IMO of course, when I get home ill back that up with scriptures out thebible.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by wttm

Originally Posted by SOleILL

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it. Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm me privately if you have doubt.

why is there the devil?!

Originally satan was a angel in heaven but things changed...he became jealous turned against God, got a a lot of angels(now demons) to turn against god. It was a war in heaven and satan and his demons were kicked out. They came to the earth. IMO of course, when I get home ill back that up with scriptures out the bible.

The way the Christianity and Islam believe in the devil, it is not believed this way in the religion of Judaism. Infact, Judaism takes the conceptas to mean of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in God's court. It comes into play with thestory of Job. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, God, to do anything. But, inChristianity and Islam expanded on it from Zoroastrianism - ancient Persian religion that still exists today.

I never got the concept as this devil who unleashes evil and makes people or tempts them to do things. If God is the all-powerful, all-knowing, supposed to beonly one God and a monotheist concept, then doesn't the devil defeat that purpose? The devil is basically acting as an extreme and a God-like figure ofcontrolling people and making them do things, like a God from of The Underworld. Does that make God less powerful than he is if another entity exists that cancontrol people?

Also, the story of Satan in Christianity can be traced back to ancient Egyptian religions with the story of Set with the dark god of the underworld.

 

[skillz]

i saw the Zeitgeist.
Google if you haven't seen it

 

[retrospect90]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by wttm

Originally Posted by SOleILL

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it. Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm me privately if you have doubt.

why is there the devil?!

Originally satan was a angel in heaven but things changed...he became jealous turned against God, got a a lot of angels(now demons) to turn against god. It was a war in heaven and satan and his demons were kicked out. They came to the earth. IMO of course, when I get home ill back that up with scriptures out the bible.

The way the Christianity and Islam believe in the devil, it is not believed this way in the religion of Judaism. Infact, Judaism takes the concept as to mean of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in God's court. It comes into play with the story of Job. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, God, to do anything. But, in Christianity and Islam expanded on it from Zoroastrianism - ancient Persian religion that still exists today.

I never got the concept as this devil who unleashes evil and makes people or tempts them to do things. If God is the all-powerful, all-knowing, supposed to be only one God and a monotheist concept, then doesn't the devil defeat that purpose? The devil is basically acting as an extreme and a God-like figure of controlling people and making them do things, like a God from of The Underworld. Does that make God less powerful than he is if another entity exists that can control people?

Also, the story of Satan in Christianity can be traced back to ancient Egyptian religions with the story of Set with the dark god of the underworld.

Yea I see what you saying. Satan temted jesus 3 times and of course jesus never gave in to the temptation. Satan then challenged god and said that the onlyreason people worshipped him was b/c he provided for them but that if things started to go bad then they would abandon him. Hence Job was struck with boils,lost his kids, etc. But he still remained with god thus proving the devil as a liar. But satan still questioned god, would people really turn away from him ifthey were going through bad things.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

To answer the original question...

I couldn't believe anymore. I couldn't, with good conscience, spread what I believed to be nonsense. I couldn't see the sin in people that I recognized as equals. Homosexuals, people of different or no religions, the divorced, etc..weren't any lesser than me. Their existence wasn't any less meaningful and their pursuit of happiness wasn't any less real than mine. My mind was expanding and in doing so I realized the error in just accepting a religion because I always have. I wised up. I investigated the likelihood of god's existence and came away sure that a superior being wasn't only absent, but actually a bad idea in the first place. I didn't just reject religion and god, I came away understanding that god's presence isn't even great in theory. I am positive there isn't a god. If given the choice, I wouldn't want there to be one. A world full of people relying on their own stability and intelligence seemed perfect. I still believe this. I believe that if no one was allowed to be introduced to god until an 'age of reason,' ironically the time that most are confirmed, no one could believe. A person's better judgment would keep them from adopting that stuff.

OK

. Keep thinking the world doesn't need God. You think its F'd up now

.

Seriously, do you all not see what not listening to God has done for us? I tried to hold back before but this is getting to a point where you seem to think your smarter than God. Well you don't believe in God but IMO you are making yourself out to be smarter than God.

I am smarter in God in the same way that I am smarter than Yoda, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. FACT. "Do you all notsee what not listening to God has done for us?" You do realize your 'god' isn't the only god that people believe in, right? So yourdefense of god once again comes down to you thinking that what you believe is right. So those that don't have access to your god, are they sinning and badfor humanity because 'they aren't listening to god?'

We got people who think its cool have sex with little girls and boys. Imagine how things would be with no God. There wouldn't be any rules to begin with.

When I hear stuff like this it is an automatic signal of the kind of people I am dealing with. This isn't true at all. You think it takes god to know thatforcing yourself on anything is wrong? NOPE. In fact, if your beliefs were made to be the ruling law, rape would not only be encouraged but the victims wouldbe killed. Oh and the baby spawned by rape? Killed. For god's sake kill the baby, just don't abort the fetus. Ever wonder why there is nothing in the10 Commandments about rape? Oops, are these examples some of the ones that are supposed to be ignored because they don't support modern ideas? Please.

Do this. Have a baby. Lock it up in a room. Don't have any type of contact with it but just feed it until 18 or so. Release it into the world and watch what happens. See what I'm saying. If we're so smart then why do we need teachers and YEARS of school?. Now your saying we evolved into this state?


I don't understand the point you are making? Are you saying someone who is18 and has never been taught anything is comparable to someone who wasn'traised with god in their life? You understand the people teaching other people are indeed humans right? This thinking doesn't make sense! I am not sayingeveryone is equipped with every bit of knowledge they need from the go. I am not saying everyone is of the same intellect. There is a reason kids aren't assmart. There are reasons some people are smarter than others. Who is denying this?

 

[retrospect90]

Satan had a improper desire as a angel got Eve and Adam to disobey. Genesis 3: 1-5
John 8: 44 says that "the devil did not stand fast in the truth" which shows that he once was perfect.
Satan asserted that God had not told Adam and eve the truth. Telling that lie to Eve made him a slanderer and a automatic opposer to god.
The bible explains the process of self-corruption in James 1: 14, 15.
Revelation 12: 7-9 indicates that a war borke out in heaven and satan and his demons were hurled down to the earth.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by retrospect90

Originally Posted by wttm

Originally Posted by SOleILL

The reason why people dont believe its because they are blinded by the prince of this world. The Devil. God made the world but the Devil corrupted it. Money,music,lust,temptation,doubt the list goes on. I just turned Christian i was Catholic but something BIG!!!! happened to me. I urge any one to please pm me privately if you have doubt.

why is there the devil?!

Originally satan was a angel in heaven but things changed...he became jealous turned against God, got a a lot of angels(now demons) to turn against god. It was a war in heaven and satan and his demons were kicked out. They came to the earth. IMO of course, when I get home ill back that up with scriptures out the bible.

The way the Christianity and Islam believe in the devil, it is not believed this way in the religion of Judaism. Infact, Judaism takes the concept as to mean of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in God's court. It comes into play with the story of Job. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, God, to do anything. But, in Christianity and Islam expanded on it from Zoroastrianism - ancient Persian religion that still exists today.

I never got the concept as this devil who unleashes evil and makes people or tempts them to do things. If God is the all-powerful, all-knowing, supposed to be only one God and a monotheist concept, then doesn't the devil defeat that purpose? The devil is basically acting as an extreme and a God-like figure of controlling people and making them do things, like a God from of The Underworld. Does that make God less powerful than he is if another entity exists that can control people?

Also, the story of Satan in Christianity can be traced back to ancient Egyptian religions with the story of Set with the dark god of the underworld.

I see what your saying about that concept of the devil, but I don't see how it conflicts with monotheism. I don't think monotheism has to relate toall-power directly, but rather, one God that is to be worshiped. It's not just God's power that makes Him worthy of worship, but a combination of hismercy, compassion, power, etc. That's how I feel about it at least.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

I am smarter in God in the same way that I am smarter than Yoda, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. FACT.

OK smart guy.

"Do you all not see what not listening to God has done for us?" You do realize your 'god' isn't the only god that people believe in, right? So your defense of god once again comes down to you thinking that what you believe is right.
I said before, again an again. I believe in only 1 God. The religions that we all have created are branches from a central idea. The central ideabeing God. I believe what I believe like you believe what you believe.

So those that don't have access to your god, are they sinning and bad for humanity because 'they aren't listening to god?'
Access in what way?

When I hear stuff like this it is an automatic signal of the kind of people I am dealing with.
Right back at ya.

This isn't true at all.
Um without God nothing would be. But of course in your opinion there is no God. I guess everything just happened to pop up completely out ofnowhere.

You think it takes god to know that forcing yourself on anything is wrong? NOPE. In fact, if your beliefs were made to be the ruling law, rape would not only be encouraged but the victims would be killed. Oh and the baby spawned by rape? Killed. For god's sake kill the baby, just don't abort the fetus. Ever wonder why there is nothing in the 10 Commandments about rape? Oops, are these examples some of the ones that are supposed to be ignored because they don't support modern ideas? Please.

You saying God is cool with rape? I'm pretty sure Heisn't. You know the routine, post the scripture...

Yeah we do stray away from somethings. Whats there to ignore? Like I said post the "rape is cool scripture you were referring to?

I don't understand the point you are making? Are you saying someone who is18 and has never been taught anything is comparable to someone who wasn't raised with god in their life? You understand the people teaching other people are indeed humans right? This thinking doesn't make sense! I am not saying everyone is equipped with every bit of knowledge they need from the go. I am not saying everyone is of the same intellect. There is a reason kids aren't as smart. There are reasons some people are smarter than others. Who is denying this?

My point being without being installed with basic knowledge from a creator, then we would be that. IMO everyone needs a teacher. So in youropinion, WHO taught us?

Whats sense does that make that NOTHING = Today's universe? Seriously answer that for me Lobo. The schools I went to always said 0 + 0= 0. So when did 0 +0 start equaling anything other than 0?

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

You think it takes god to know that forcing yourself on anything is wrong? NOPE. In fact, if your beliefs were made to be the ruling law, rape would not only be encouraged but the victims would be killed. Oh and the baby spawned by rape? Killed. For god's sake kill the baby, just don't abort the fetus. Ever wonder why there is nothing in the 10 Commandments about rape? Oops, are these examples some of the ones that are supposed to be ignored because they don't support modern ideas? Please.

You saying God is cool with rape? I'm pretty sure He isn't. You know the routine, post the scripture...

Yeah we do stray away from some things. Whats there to ignore? Like I said post the "rape is cool scripture you were referring to?

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB) Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

So those that don't have access to your god, are they sinning and bad for humanity because 'they aren't listening to god?'

Access in what way?

Access in that not everyone has heard of Jesus. Jesus doesn't exist to some. Are these people sinning?

 

[iloveshoes]

This thread is just going around in circles yo!

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Your gonna call me a sheep but from the looks of it, they caused a plague by going against God and caused people to rebel against him. The younggirls statement. I'm not sure in what way "keep them" is stated. Once again another scripture open for interpretation so I don't know. Idon't even know how "young" the girls were.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

I don't see anything about rape yet. But from the looks of what was going on, the people they're attacking had it coming fromthe looks of what I've found. I got this from someone else on Yahoo.answers,

Do you know what these people did to God's people? When they captured the Israelites or any enemy nation, they would skin them alive. Or they would cut off their noses and ears, Heads were cut off and put on stakes outside the city. The children would be dashed to pieces and the women rapped and killed. At least according to the verses you quote they were taken as slaves but kept alive. If not, only the men were killed and not in the way they killed God's people. It is strange how people will criticize God for acting and protecting his people but today they criticize him for not taking action and doing something about our situation.
Sounds like this was during the times of the Old Testament.

This what someone else posted...

These people were the enemy of the Israelites and worshipers of false gods. Rather than just destroy them all, God told the Israelites to offer them a peace proposal. They refused and chose war.

Slavery in those days by the way, is not what you think. Slaves were more like hired hands. Certainly better treated than the stereotypical black slave of the South. So that presumption is unfounded as well.

It has been common practice throughout eternity for the spoils to go to the victor in battle. So I don't understand your contempt for this passage.
So yeah it sounds like Gods people were getting what was rightfully theirs back. I'm not sure but I think the enemy had chances to come backto God but chose not to. And they chose war as you see, well they lost.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


Sounds like God was speaking about "garden tools" right here. Betrothed means engage to be married from the looks of it. So for a woman to beengage and sleep with another man, they are both %%@+%! and guilty of the same crime. The crying out part is basically saying, if your getting raped or gotraped, then speak up IMO.

(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB) Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
You sure that wasn't prophecy rather than a statement of God supporting rape?

You aren't twisting words are you? I hope your genuinely interested in thisstuff.

I think its telling of what happened or what is to happens when you stray away from God. I'm not sure seeing as I'm still a bible rookie.



Sorry that took so long. I was really looking these scriptures up and what not.

 

[nnarum]

I believe all religions have originated form one source, the sun.