Grey market discussion thread (Let's keep the discussion mature) Rules on pg 1 please read before yo

[sneakaprince]

Those 88s look terrible

One of my friends from home runs a kinda well known early release site and after a really in-depth conversation with him one night I remember him telling me that its on some la costra nostra stuff over there and that he really felt like there were ''powers-that-be'' that controlled the sneaker thing both here and in Asia. '

All I know is he has never been called out for fake sneakers and I have literally seen him with everything including corks, weeks-months early...

 

[Bert.]

sure they look horrible but fakes are getting better is what im saying.

 

[biglescobar]

Yeezys are not produced in the same factories or in anywhere near the same quantity as Jordan Retros are (despite some people thinking Retros are limited, they are being produced at all time highs and are among the most produced volume Nike has every made) and do not go through the same production channels as Jordans so that is the reason there are no GM Yeezy , same reason there are no grey market Air Mags and why Yeezys and Mags both can drop with no leaks, due to the volume being so small in comparison......

 

[puffin85]

heres a video with actual replicas. kinda crazy how good replicas are getting. these sell for $82.

weird thing is, the guy says his authentic pair is legit but they look MAD weird as hell

Both pairs look fake to me

 

[Bert.]

yup. while his legit pair shape and everything wise looks good the damn elephant print looks fugazi as hell

 

[fresh out dabox]

Both pairs look fake to me

that right pair looks fake judging by the elephant print.

 

[puffin85]

that right pair looks fake judging by the elephant print.

Exactly fam and the stitching around the toe box is off.

 

[deezrsackolishus]

Ahhhhh grey market air mags


And im watching back to the future right now

 

[footsoldier]

Hey so this is a pair of GM Jordan xi lows I picked up early from the Seattle DunkXchange sole swap event last weekend. My opinion is that there is no difference between these and the retail pair my friend bought at this weekends release other than the production dates (which they aren't lying about obviously). If there are any details that are different from retail pairs that I may have missed, please point them out to me as I am curious. Overall I'm happy with these and don't really mind if the shoes were from a 1st, 2nd or 3rd production run from the same factory building retail pairs. (I have worn this pair a couple times)View media item 448759View media item 448760View media item 448762View media item 448764View media item 448765View media item 448767View media item 448768View media item 448770View media item 448771

 

[AimbotHacker]

That YT user has lots of GM and Fakes uploaded... check out some of the XI videos. He calls them authentic but they're completely icy. Also has the GM DB4's.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IDSolecreator/videos

 

[pheeltheheat]

Hey so this is a pair of GM Jordan xi lows I picked up early from the Seattle DunkXchange sole swap event last weekend. My opinion is that there is no difference between these and the retail pair my friend bought at this weekends release other than the production dates (which they aren't lying about obviously). If there are any details that are different from retail pairs that I may have missed, please point them out to me as I am curious. Overall I'm happy with these and don't really mind if the shoes were from a 1st, 2nd or 3rd production run from the same factory building retail pairs. (I have worn this pair a couple times)View media item 448759View media item 448760View media item 448762View media item 448764View media item 448765View media item 448767View media item 448768View media item 448770View media item 448771

I could have bought XI lows from a connect in Canada in mid may, and he's 100% legit. So a week early wouldn't concern me too much.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Just wanted to post this again because I went to the LC thread this morning and everyone seems to be an expert on GM kicks now. Once they see an icy clear bottom (not talking about blue soles) they automatically start pointing out all of these "flaws" in the shoe.

 I posted this a couple of days ago.

This "risk" that people seem to be afraid of is ovey inflsted and falsely based because most of NT members' exposure to GM shoes is based on the LC thread. Because of the nature of the LC thread 99% of the shoes that end up on there are flawed to begin with and rightly so. Why would someone who has shoes that give them no reason to question authenticity, especially if everything checks out when it comes to quality, have to post their shoes on the LC thread? Same goes for YouTube videos. People make YouTube videos for 2 reasons. For reviews and to complain. Most normal people buy a shoe and put it ridge into the box if they look good and you never hear another word about it. Essentially the question is this, if we're looking to see if these stand up to the A grade quality Jordans why would you base all of your judgements and opinions off of a forum that draws in b-dgrade, used, fake, and shoes that have issues that cause you to question authenticity to begin with? Whether GM or not.

Im half tempted to post a picture of my release day concords in the LC thread but instead of my actual soles with yellowing around the pods ill post one with an icy bottom off of ebay or something. im 100% sure they tell me about patent leather cut and 23 placement and effed up and everything inst aligned the right way. Its ridiculous.

 

[Bert.]

That YT user has lots of GM and Fakes uploaded... check out some of the XI videos. He calls them authentic but they're completely icy. Also has the GM DB4's.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IDSolecreator/videos

never checked out his other videos, good looks.

guess that explains why his elephant print looks horrible

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Here's a little more info on Grey Market shoes/process in general

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine.  Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products.  In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license.  COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product.  

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build.  If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING.  If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players). 

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV.  What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together.  In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories.  Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale.  Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES.  B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection.  There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers.  Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws.  Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e.  1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry.  Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?! 

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market.  A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS.  It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike.  These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1.  Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011.  JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2.  Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011.  JB’s approved the sample.  

3.  The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4.  The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units. 

5.  The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6.  The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7.  The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8.  Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9.  Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10.  Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11.  JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this.  They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well.  


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE!  This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits.  

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1.  It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING.  Nike is really a marketing company as well.

 

[dtb00201]

I don't even buy that theory anymore. They're replicating 3-11 year old sneakers now. It's bigger than just taking the shoes that were supposed to be destroyed and selling them. It may have originally started that way, but look at the number of sites there are now and the number of pairs on taobao. Honestly, I don't even know how true it was back then either. Matt from nicekicks was on the osdlive podcast probably a year and a half ago and said he was given a pair of early release playoff 8s and dissected the early release and a retail pair and they just flat out didn't have the same internals, and this was all the way back in 07.

 

[Bert.]

I don't even buy that theory anymore. They're replicating 3-11 year old sneakers now. It's bigger than just taking the shoes that were supposed to be destroyed and selling them. It may have originally started that way, but look at the number of sites there are now and the number of pairs on taobao. Honestly, I don't even know how true it was back then either. Matt from nicekicks was on the osdlive podcast probably a year and a half ago and said he was given a pair of early release playoff 8s and dissected the early release and a retail pair and they just flat out didn't have the same internals, and this was all the way back in 07.

clearly you are misinformed. they have all the same materials, same zoom air bags, everything...

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I remember seeing Yeezy's up on sites like Sole-Up and one other, FSR's a few weeks after release.

I assumed they were grey market, but they had them at $1900+ so I don't think anyone noticed.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I remember seeing Yeezy's up on sites like Sole-Up and one other, FSR's a few weeks after release.

I assumed they were grey market, but they had them at $1900+ so I don't think anyone noticed.

I remember when they were up but i dont remember it being a full size run. Just a couple of sizes. Sole-up does sell some legit shoes. With the kind of revenue theyre getting from their sales plus the factory connections these places have getting a couple pairs of yeezys shouldnt be too difficult. Either way they havent restocked since. If grey markey yeezys were in production the market would be flooded

 

[Bert.]

Sole up actually gets legit stuff at times, dude has the biggest hook ups. they were NOT grey market. i can put money on it.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Sole up actually gets legit stuff at times, dude has the biggest hook ups. they were NOT grey market. i can put money on it.

AKA Air Randy if anyone didnt know

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Sole up actually gets legit stuff at times, dude has the biggest hook ups. they were NOT grey market. i can put money on it.

Oh ok. Sort of always assumed sole-up was just another GM site before

I swore they had a decent number of sizes, and the stock was around for a few weeks. It was around the time the site launched, so maybe they didn't sell quickly because of that.

I forget what other site had them - VMV or something - but I'm guessing they had connections too then?

 

[AimbotHacker]

i find it funny that people complain about the patent cut on GM XI's, when the retailed pairs can have different cuts on the left and right shoe... look at the stitching above the heel

 

[deezrsackolishus]

I find it funny someone still wearin a livestrong band haha

Jk. We dont need that debate here. Yes im for the cause an what its accomplished,

But the lying cheating scoudrel behind the push, thats another thing

 

[qboogie]

I find it funny someone still wearin a livestrong band haha

Jk. We dont need that debate here. Yes im for the cause an what its accomplished,

But the lying cheating scoudrel behind the push, thats another thing

He belonged with the Nike Brand if you put it like that than. Only thing is the public doesn't really know that. Just like these Grey Markets. You don't get to the top being an honest Abe.

 

[jchambers]

No Space Jams yet, but the black Grape Vs are here, and I can't tell the difference in quality between any of my retail Vs. I believe that any minor discrepancies are the same that you would find in any retail Nike or Jordan products. The quality is there, the real risk lies in dealing with overseas sellers and customs, etc.