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Originally Posted by 651akathePaul
You're such a lame.
Nah if anyone is the lame, it has to be you.
Slurping on a singles hitter.
JRAIN 2.0?
Ichiro in pursuit of.....Eckstein?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
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Nah if anyone is the lame, it has to be you.
Slurping on a singles hitter.
JRAIN 2.0?
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Yesss.
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I'm not here to defend anyone, but he never CLEARLY slurped Ichiro. All he stated was his opinion, and that was that. I never saw any, "OMG ICHIRO ISTHE GREATEST" from him.
And if anything, you're the lame. He gets his hit streak snapped so you come in saying "Greatest huh?" You do realize that this is probably the 1record in all of sports that will NEVER be broken.
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Since you don't seem to be getting it, he never said Ichiro was the greatest.
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one of the most clueless members I've seen on NT in all my years here. you're embarrassing yourself.
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Originally Posted by 651akathePaul
Word. More an Ichiro appreciation type thread. The man is arguably the greatest hitter of all-time.
BTW. I don't think ESPN knows where Seattle is. The secret is safe for another 5-10 games.
To the poster above
Or did he?
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Originally Posted by John Ohh
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul
Word. More an Ichiro appreciation type thread. The man is arguably the greatest hitter of all-time.
BTW. I don't think ESPN knows where Seattle is. The secret is safe for another 5-10 games.
To the poster above
Or did he?
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Originally Posted by Julian Wright
Word. More an Ichiro appreciation type thread. The man is arguably the greatest hitter of all-time.
BTW. I don't think ESPN knows where Seattle is. The secret is safe for another 5-10 games.
To the poster above
Or did he?
And I'm arguing it.
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Originally Posted by Julian Wright
You're not arguing #%+@. You haven't said one noteworthy thing in this thread yet.
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Well if I can get paid like he is, I would certainly not think twice about being only a singles hitter....and where is this, "anyone can do that"talk?? If it is THAT easy for other MLB players to do, they certainly would
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you got it. only Pujols has a higher active career BA. ichiro is in the top 30 all-time in BA. that'sSO easy to do!
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Originally Posted by finnns2003
You continue to ignore the factors. Number one the guy is a leadoff hitter, what's with the obsession of homers? His job is to get on base, period. You mention that his stats come with the team '30 games below .500', but that just proves my point. He has absolutely no protection in the lineup. He's been playing with scrubs for a majority of his career. Vidro, Randy Winn, Beltre, Lopez, Betancourt, Aurilia, I don't care who you plug in, they've been awful.Originally Posted by CP1708
I already said, he's good at what he does, slapping the ball around, pickin up those singles. Not sure why that hurts so much, but obviously some people are bleedin over this.
But as stated, I listed a dozen or so that were/are better hitters, and thinking on it last night, I can add Frank Thomas as well. Anyhoo, when you are couting those countless 4-4 nights with 4 singles, and usually a loss, do you ever wonder why in a big moment in the 8th inning, the supposedly "hit homeruns when he wants too" Ichiro, doesn't in fact hit a home run? Why is that?
All those singles and steals he piles up 30 games under .500 don't impress me. And as stated previously, I live 3 hours from Seattle, it is the "local" team here in Oregon, which means radio coverage, tv coverage, newspaper coverage, the works. So rest assured, I've seen more then 6 games.
Face it, he's nice at what he does, but what he doesn't do is hit for power, take pitches/walks, doesn't lead his team to wins, he just goes out there everyday to get his 5 plate appearances, and get his 2 singles a night, steal a bag, lose the game, and then do it again the next day. Meanwhile you guys conitnue to worship him while even his own teammates question whether he just wants to "get his". Again, media coverage, there's a lot of talk out here. I hear lots.
Reyes, Rollins, Hanley, Soriano, Pedroia, all better lead off hitters, and guys I'd rather have on my team. And I'm sure I forgot one or two.
Second point, leading a team to wins. I seem to remember baseball being a 'team' sport. If the guy is doing his job, what's the problem? Again, we're talking about a guy who's had a .350 BA four times in his nine year career. You sound like a majority of the critics who simply don't get it. Thinking he is all about padding his stats. Simply ridiculous. His teammates question him? Are you #@^$#&# kidding me? Guys like Carlos Silva who end up with ERA's as high as 7 or 8?? Or J.J. Putz who hasn't amounted to half of the ballplayer Ichiro is? I mean c'mon. His 'teammates' are the reason Seattle has missed the playoffs for eight seasons. Give me a list of who called him out, I'll give you ten reasons that player would've been gone on any other ballclub. Bavasi was a fool in his player personnel decisions, don't blame the one guy who went out every night and excelled.
jose reyes with his .286 BA? you'd rather have a guy who has hit .300 just twice since he's been in the majors, over a guy who's hit .303 or higher every year he's been in the league? pathetic, absolutely pathetic. ichiro has just as many MVP's and batting titles as all the guys you listed, or more.
Yes, getting on base is the main objective of the leadoff hitter... but it's not the only job. It's also important to force the pitcher to throwmultiple pitches because it gives the batters hitting the leadoff hitter a chance to see what the pitcher is throwing, pick up on it, and use that informationto their advantage when they come up to bat.
Ichiro only sees 3.57 pitches per plate appearance, which is near the bottom of the league and awful for a leadoff hitter. He's actually a contributingfactor to why the batters hitting behind him have done poorly.
I'll say it again, when you're thrown a pitch outside the strike zone, it's smarter to take it for a ball instead of trying to hit it. Yes, Ichirohas an extraordinarily high contact rate on pitches outside the strike zone, but it's much harder to make solid contactwith pitches outside the strike zone, the result is often a groundball... and even Ichiro with his quick start out of the box and good speed makes anout on groundballs at least 85% of the time. It's make a lot more sense to lay off pitches outside the strike zone, work the count in your favor, and forcethe pitcher to throw a pitch that you can drive or risk walking you. If you lay off 4 pitches outside the strike zone, 100% of the time the result is you geton base.
And the fact that Ichiro has no protection has absolutely no effect on his hitting. You see, the result of lineup protection is that a pitcher will throw youmore strikes to avoid WALKING a hitter (and thereby putting a man on base for the hitters behind him). However, Ichiro is no threat to walk because he swingsat an astounding 31.3% of pitches outside the strike zone... only 18 MLB players swing at more. If you frequently swing pitches outside the strike zone,that's what pitchers are going to throw you... no matter who's hitting behind you.
Hanley Ramirez was by far the best leadoff hitter the past 2 seasons, but he moved to the 3-hole this year.
So the best current leadoff hitter is this former 17th round pick, who has the potential to be even better than Hanley because he strikes out less.
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We're just going to agree to disagree, Juan Baller. Ichiro was fine when Seattle had a good lineup in 2001. In fact, he was MVP. His approach has alwaysbeen the same.
You cannot say that he affects the people batting around him. Facts are facts, Seattle has had horrible talent around him the last eight seasons. Bret Boonewas the last decent hitter behind him. Jose Lopez, Betancourt, Aurilia, Cirillo, Vidro, Jeremy Reed, we can go on all day. The lineups, and talent, have beenabysmal in Seattle.
You make great points, but some have nothing to do with his ability to hit. He doesn't see a lot of pitches, but what does that have to do with 3,000 hitsbetween two professional baseball leagues? Or the .331 career BA? Or breaking an 84-year old major league record? The guy is a great, great hitter. Period.
You cannot say that he affects the people batting around him. Facts are facts, Seattle has had horrible talent around him the last eight seasons. Bret Boonewas the last decent hitter behind him. Jose Lopez, Betancourt, Aurilia, Cirillo, Vidro, Jeremy Reed, we can go on all day. The lineups, and talent, have beenabysmal in Seattle.
You make great points, but some have nothing to do with his ability to hit. He doesn't see a lot of pitches, but what does that have to do with 3,000 hitsbetween two professional baseball leagues? Or the .331 career BA? Or breaking an 84-year old major league record? The guy is a great, great hitter. Period.
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i cannot believe people think this guy is overrated. he is an awesome pure hitter. how can you not like the guy?
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Finns is suckin ichiro a little too hard rite now... the guy is a great SLAP hitter. That's the prototypical type hitter from his country, the onlydifference is that he has excelled in his kind of play facing japanese league pitchers and major league pitchers. I think he is a great hitter but it is anabomination to compare him to the greats of today like pujols, manny, and a-rod, and even jeter. He doesn't put half the fear in pitchers like those guys,especially in a big spot. Im not even gonna compare him to the old time greats like ted williams and joe d, I just can't even think like that. The bottomline is that his game is extremely 1 dimensional it would be blasphemy to call him the greatest hitter ever and foolish to believe it. O yea and finns u saidhis teams in seattle hasn't been successful because he can't carry his team himself because he's 1 player that was a horrible excuse, he can'tcarry his team to the postseason because he is JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH simple as that. In 2007 alex rodriguez put the yankees on his back as soon as the seasonbegan and dragged them to the playoffs getting every big hit they could have dreamed of because he was THAT GOOD that year. Ichiro will never be that kind offorce, he will always be a high average guy who doesn't walk or drive in runs, And please don't give me he is a leadoff hitter crap because the AL MVPlast year was a leadoff hitter that did everything for his team.
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^^ Woah woah the 2007 Yankees team is in no comparison to a losing Mariners team, I wish it was but for sure is not. I always ask this, you take away Ichiro,and put A-Rod on this M's team, you think they're gonna goto the playoffs? I'm not taking away anything from A-Rod or Jeter but they had plenty ofhelp from teammates where Ichiro clearly has not. Besides that A-Rod and Manny lost some credibility as great hitters as they got caught cheating. Hedoesn't have many RBI's this year due to his team's low run production but in the past he's gotten 69, 68 RBI's which isn't bad for aleadoff hitter.
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you have no idea what you're talking about. learn the game first, rook.
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oh by the way. after today's games, ichiro is... only #1 in batting average in the major leagues. easy though, right?
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.356 and he still can't manage a .400 OBP.
Hilarious.
Hilarious.
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^^^ exactly... I didn't know batting average makes you "the greatest hitter to ever play the game". I would welcome him into the discussion whenhe brings something else to the table. Like I said before how about become the best leadoff hitter in the game before we call him the "best hitter in thegame" or the "best hitter all time" lol.. Finns you are hilarious
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a Yankees fan, okay now I see why you brought A-Rod comparisons.
No my friend, YOU are hilarious. If you really think one man carries a baseball team to the playoffs, you are clueless. Just do yourself a favor and stopembarrassing yourself.
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Bro in 2001 Ichiro had plenty of help in his lineup 1B John Olerud 2B Bret Boone AVG .331 37HRS 141 RBI's RF Jay Buhner DH Edgar Martinez CFMike cameron 3B Carlos Guillen etc. they won 116 games that yr and got dominated by the Yankees in the American League Championship series. Ichiro simply isnta winner. Japan wins the WBC not because there better but because they are just finishing their season win the WBC starts and the players on team USA have beenon vacation for 4+ months and most MLB teams dont even allow their best players to compete for fear of injury and if they do compete there i plenty ofrestrictions especially to their Pitchers get it straight bro Davey Johnson was limited to what he could do. The players in Japan arent better than the Playeris the US. Damn met my post limit
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Ichiro hasn't won much in the major leagues because of lack of talent around him. Put him on a team with talent and he wins, simple. He hascontributed in a huge way to the champion teams in each of the WBC's.