Ichiro in pursuit of.....Eckstein?

From ESPN Insider about this hitting streak, which I thought this thread was about
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[h3]1. 27 and counting for Ichiro[/h3]Ichiro Suzuki will try to extend his consecutive-game hitting streak to 28 when the Mariners return to action against the Twins on Friday. He's batting .398 (47-for-118) since the streak began on May 6.
One reason Suzuki is capable of streaks like this is that he can make contact -- and get hits -- on pitches most hitters would not even try to hit. He's one of only four hitters with a minimum of 150 plate appearances who are batting over .300 on pitches both in and out of the strike zone. (The others are Carl Crawford, Dustin Pedroia and Miguel Tejada.) On the season, Ichiro has a .366 batting average in the zone and a .314 average out of the zone for an overall average of .353.

In particular, he's been proficient at handling low pitches. Ichiro's .413 batting average in the bottom third of the hitting zone is one of the best in the majors and well above the .219 league average. Unless they roll it to the plate, pitchers can't target the ball low enough to keep Ichiro off it:

[h4]Batting avg. vs. pitches in lower third (2009)[/h4] [table][tr][th=""]
[/th] [th=""]Ichiro[/th] [th=""]League average[/th] [/tr][tr][td]In the strike zone[/td] [td].362[/td] [td].264[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Below the strike zone[/td] [td].500[/td] [td].125[/td] [/tr][/table]

During the streak he's gotten 19 hits off low pitches -- nine were below the knees. That's enabled Suzuki to keep the streak alive; twice he's collected his only hit of the game on a pitch down in the zone.

Ichiro is also streak-prone because he has mastered the slap-and-run game, literally heading to first base as he swings and often purposely trying to hit a ball between the shortstop and third baseman. He's hit ground balls 59 percent of the time during the streak, and has a .391 batting average on them (league average is .234). Quickness out of the left-handed batter's box and speed down the line are still big elements for Ichiro because he rarely makes hard contact. Only five of the 65 grounders he has hit during the streak were well-hit.

Ichiro is a great hitter. He has mastered a form a of hitting that baseball has never really seen before. He is a singles specialist. He is agreat all around player and he will be in the hall of fame. But he is not one of the greatest hitters.

On the other hand though, if anyone were to break this record wouldn't Ichiro be the best canditate?
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This thread has gotten too much about bashing each other more than thoughtful insight. Bottom line is Ichiro will be in the HOF and I won't say he is thegreatest hitter of all time since he won't have 500 HR's or close to it. But he will be up there as one of the best since his hit total and BA will beamong the league's best, like Pete Rose. David Eckstein and Castillo make contact but they don't get hits like Ichiro, who uses his swing and speed asan advantage. I appreciate all the thoughtful debate in the this forum tho, good to know there's still some good baseball fans out there.

My last note is that whether you like him or not he is an exciting player to watch. Most times with the camera angle behind the pitcher, about 90% of the timeyou see a batter hit a ground ball and you think "darn there's an out" but with Ichiro you know most balls hit aren't routine so there'ssome excitement there. I wish we could ask Ichiro to read this thread and ask how he feels about it haha. And lastly I apologize if I have offended anyone asmy comments were never meant to attack anyone, other than how frustrating watching this Mariners team can be. Great hitting, pitching, and baseball in generalis always debatable.
 
we wouldn't let this thread die would we? ichiro currently leading the league (by far) with a .369 batting average. he has eight hits in his last threegames. 91 hits away from 2000.
 
Nice to see Ichiro on pace for a career high 52 extra base hits, which would be a big improvement over his pathetic extra base hit totals the last few years.

2006 - 38 extra base hits
2007 - 35 extra base hits
2008 - 33 extra base hits

To put that in perspective, only 2 MLB players (among those with enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title) had fewer extra base hits thanIchiro last year.

Unfortunately, it gets worse for Ichiro. Only 15.4% of the balls he has put in this year have been line drives, by far the worst percentage of his career (hiscareer Line Drive % is 20.7), probably due to the fact he's swinging at more pitches out of the strike zone (32.5%) than ever before (his career O-Swing%is 24.5%). Ichiro's batting average is inflated due to an unsustainably high Infield Hit % (16.1%). Not even Ichiro can leave the box fast enough toconsistently beat out groundballs that frequently over the course of a full season, so when his Infield Hit % regresses back to his career average of 12.5%expect his batting average to come back his usual .330 level... possibly even lower given that overall he's making worse contact this year because he'sswinging at worse pitches (see his decreased Line Drive % and increased propensity to swing at pitches outside the strike zone).

Again, I respect Ichiro's ability to hit singles by slapping groundballs and beating the throw to 1B. But it's a very big stretch to categorizeIchiro's technique as pure hitting since most of it is due to his legs not his bat. That's why he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the besthitter of all time discussion. What Ichiro does is a specialty (beating out grounders), it's a small subsection of hitting. You wouldn't consider anNBA player who's strictly a 3-point specialist to be the best scorer of all time.
 
Originally Posted by Juan Baller

Nice to see Ichiro on pace for a career high 52 extra base hits, which would be a big improvement over his pathetic extra base hit totals the last few years.

2006 - 38 extra base hits
2007 - 35 extra base hits
2008 - 33 extra base hits

To put that in perspective, only 2 MLB players (among those with enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title) had fewer extra base hits than Ichiro last year.

Unfortunately, it gets worse for Ichiro. Only 15.4% of the balls he has put in this year have been line drives, by far the worst percentage of his career (his career Line Drive % is 20.7), probably due to the fact he's swinging at more pitches out of the strike zone (32.5%) than ever before (his career O-Swing% is 24.5%). Ichiro's batting average is inflated due to an unsustainably high Infield Hit % (16.1%). Not even Ichiro can leave the box fast enough to consistently beat out groundballs that frequently over the course of a full season, so when his Infield Hit % regresses back to his career average of 12.5% expect his batting average to come back his usual .330 level... possibly even lower given that overall he's making worse contact this year because he's swinging at worse pitches (see his decreased Line Drive % and increased propensity to swing at pitches outside the strike zone).

Again, I respect Ichiro's ability to hit singles by slapping groundballs and beating the throw to 1B. But it's a very big stretch to categorize Ichiro's technique as pure hitting since most of it is due to his legs not his bat. That's why he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the best hitter of all time discussion. What Ichiro does is a specialty (beating out grounders), it's a small subsection of hitting. You wouldn't consider an NBA player who's strictly a 3-point specialist to be the best scorer of all time.
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ichiro with another 2-4 night, average up to .371.
 
Originally Posted by RetroBaller

man if some people change their avy, i wont know if they post or not
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Man, dudes killin me with the changes every other day.
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I think I had my avy and sig on post 1, and will have it on post 10,000. Course, i don't think I even remember how to change them so it's not reallyan option.
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Finns, like Juan said, congrats on hitting 371, and still not being a great hitter.
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I think Juan and co., have very insightful an truthful opinions/facts on Ichiro, but I also strongly believe he is a better hitter than given credit for.Slapping and infield hits aside, I'm hard pressed to convince myself that hitting .371 (and his lifetime acheivements) for any reason, is not consideredbeing a superb hitter.
 
Since this post was brought back, I might as well update Ichi's status...

He currently has 7 consecutive multi-hit games. Roger Hornsby holds the record of 13 straight games.
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I'm not reading this whole thread, but I skim through it. To discredit any player for their speed is ******ed. He is a leadoff hitter, does it matter howhe gets on base? He has more any enough CLEAN hits to his credit, so stop saying majority of his hits are slap singles to the short. Ichiro should be leadingthe league in RUNS every year if he was playing on a better team.

As a leadoff hitter/outfield, what can you really more can you ask for? Be serious.
 
Originally Posted by Sriracha Hot Sauce

I'm not reading this whole thread, but I skim through it. To discredit any player for their speed is ******ed. He is a leadoff hitter, does it matter how he gets on base? He has more any enough CLEAN hits to his credit, so stop saying majority of his hits are slap singles to the short. Ichiro should be leading the league in RUNS every year if he was playing on a better team.

As a leadoff hitter/outfield, what can you really more can you ask for? Be serious.
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I agree, if this guy can get on that often regardless of them only being singles you can't tell me there are many lead off hitters you wouldtake over him right now
I don't even like the guy but I think he is an incredible hitter
 
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

I think Juan and co., have very insightful an truthful opinions/facts on Ichiro, but I also strongly believe he is a better hitter than given credit for. Slapping and infield hits aside, I'm hard pressed to convince myself that hitting .371 (and his lifetime acheivements) for any reason, is not considered being a superb hitter.
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You don't feel extra base hits are an important part of hitting? I don't see how anyone could consider a player who consistently finishesnear the bottom of the league in XBH to be a one of the best hitters of all time.

Players who hit 80+ XBH every year like Albert Pujols have a much greater effect on creating runs than strictly singles hitters like Ichiro. The best hittersin the game are players that can (1) hit a lot of XBH and (2) hit for a high average.

Ichiro is great at what he does. But what he does is only one part of hitting... it's a speciality. Saying Ichiro is one of the best hitters of all time islike saying Peja Stojackic is one of the best scorers of all time. Stojackic is a superb outside shooting specialist, but by itself that doesn't qualifyhim to be one of the best scorers of all time. Similarly, Ichiro is a singles specialist and by itself that doesn't qualify him as one of the best hittersof all time.


Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Roger Hornsby holds the record of 13 straight games.
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Finally a player that deserves to mentioned in the "greatest hitter of all time" discussion. Basically the Babe Ruth of the NL duringthe 1920's. Rogers Hornsby led the NL isbatting average, OBP, and slugging percentage for 6 consecutive seasons.
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Juan gonna be my agent from now on when I have to battle Ichiro worshipers.
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Do you know anything about Steve Nash Juan?
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