Is Bruce Jenner Trolling?

Clearly you like cherry picking.
I'll elaborate.
You keep equating muscle mass to being the main factor as well when clearly it isn't.
The height isn't the only factor either. Structure= frame. Do you not see the frame, reach of these MTF transgenders? Would you say they are different then most woman in their rightful sport?
Put your tallest female basketball player against shaq on hormones. It's not the same no matter how hard you try to will it.
Lana broke records. But go ahead and argue about her feelings.


Fallon lost because of her lack of skill. I'm not going to get into the intricacies of MMA since that would be pages. The ability to lose doesn't negate advantages.... advantages don't ensure a win. I don't know how else to break that down.

I provided hard examples. They greatly benefited from being trans.
Clearly, you cherry picked and refuse to objectively contemplate both sides of this issue. So not much else I can say to you. As time goes on with the olympics, we will see how much a year of hormone therapy does. :lol

1. HOW DID THEY GREATLY BENEFIT BY BEING TRANS? :lol

None off those examples are clear, all those articles basically amount to: They were successful so obviously it was an advantage.


2. WHAT IS FRAME?

Define your terms. What do you mean by frame EXACTLY?

Wide shoulders? plenty of women have wide shoulders.
Big Hands? plenty of women have big hands.

What exactly do you mean and how exactly is it an advantage unique to trans women?
 
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1. HOW DID THEY GREATLY BENEFIT BY BEING TRANS? :lol

None off those examples are clear, all those articles basically amount to: They were successful so obviously it was an advantage.


2. WHAT IS FRAME?

Define your terms. What do you mean by frame EXACTLY?

Wide shoulders? plenty of women have wide shoulders.
Big Hands? plenty of women have big hands.

What exactly do you mean and how exactly is it an advantage unique to trans women?




It's unique to men. Men generally have bigger hands, shoulders, etc, than women. Are there men with smaller hands than women, vice versa? Sure there is but this isn't the norm. Is this a new revelation?

"How does a trans lose? What's bone structure? What's a frame? What exactly do I mean?"
Is this your way of debating? It sucks and just deflects.

You asking way too many silly questions now. I explained my point of view with the examples you said aren't there. :lol

If you wanna debate correctly. By all means but you have yet to provide credible studies showing the human anatomy changes 100% from a adult male to female after a year of hormone therapy.
 
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I dunno why any female would sign up to fight that transgendered fighter. They know they're in for an unfair brutal beating.
 
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Care to flesh out how Republicans live like?

Id love to hear this 8o

Btw im an independent.

I can tell you how they don't live. They don't live in the old crib, in the hood.

You've never left da tristate area..go visit da rust belts in west Pennsylvania, i drive there all da time for work...
Sounds like you've been drinking that "da rich hate da poor" kool-aid class warfare thats been drumed into ur little noggin.
Most people wanna be left alone, and not have government encroaching on their liberties..this is why i really dont care about da Bruce Jenner thing.. He wants to mutilate his body, thats his call...

But it ALSO better be on his dime.

This guy Bruce Jenner, da person u defending is a sworn Republican, this tran thing? Publicity stunt by da kardashians and their matriarchal leader Kriss Jenner.

As far as im concerned, Bruce took his fetish, and exploited it as a vessel for $$$$. Im not knocking da Hustle cuz i see right thru it..i dont gotta go far underneath da adulation to see he's being raked over da coals by feminists & progressives for co-opting their whole wave for $.

Until he lop it off, he's just trollin for $$$.

I wonder how people who during his Olympic era used to idolize him feel about him now.

Cuz TBH? I couldn't care less.

Da only damage this can cause is "normalized" androgynous society where your sex isn't defined by your birth....ya wanna do that?

Ya wanna rip up everything that makes up human beings to accommodate 1/10th of 1%?

I mean eff XX, XY chromosomes right? :lol

As long as we're getting rid of legislation on moralites...get rid of everything, drug laws, polygamy, gun, etc.

And lets start this with Puerto Rico first, since they're broke, and sold their *** along time ago & could use get all da help they can get >D.

Eff it right?
 
You've never left da tristate area..go visit da rust belts in west Pennsylvania, i drive there all da time for work...
Sounds like you've been drinking that "da rich hate da poor"

False. Been fortunate enough to travel a lot. Still recovering from the 8 hour drive back from Toronto(beautiful city). I dunno how you truckers do it...Anyway, the majority of poor people who vote republican do so because of their own skin color and the hatred of others. KKK isn't exactly a fortune 500.

Lack of political knowledge tends to be another factor. Ask these poor people why they vote republican and prepare for the most vacuous reasons.
 
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And Democrats do da same thing with latinos & blacks...its called politics.

[Video]

Hence y imma independent... I vote for what benefits me, not wgar benefits an ideology or political party..cuz they both playing u for fools...u keep thinking 1 side knows best :lol i remember when i was like that.
 
And Democrats do da same thing with latinos & blacks...its called politics.

[Video]

Hence y imma independent... I vote for what benefits me, not wgar benefits an ideology or political party..cuz they both playing u for fools...u keep thinking 1 side knows best :lol i remember when i was like that.


Fair enough. Personally, the two party system is a joke and needs to be done with. No side knows best. I despise Hillary. I don't think anyone worthy to lead the free world wants that responsibility nor wants to jump through the necessary hoops. I'm independent myself.
 
It's unique to men. Men generally have bigger hands, shoulders, etc, than women. Are there men with smaller hands than women, vice versa? Sure there is but this isn't the norm. Is this a new revelation?

"How does a trans lose? What's bone structure? What's a frame? What exactly do I mean?"
Is this your way of debating? It sucks and just deflects.

You asking way too many silly questions now. I explained my point of view with the examples you said aren't there. :lol

If you wanna debate correctly. By all means but you have yet to provide credible studies showing the human anatomy changes 100% from a adult male to female after a year of hormone therapy.

The only basis for barring women from competing is if being born male gives you access to something that would NEVER appear naturally in a woman.

Testosterone levels are an example or this and is easily fixed via hormone blockers.


Women generally are smaller but it's not like a gigantic difference its tiny in comparison to the rest of the rest of the animal kingdom.

There PLENTY of women who have bigger hands, taller, wider frame. being tall is not unique to men. I'm 6'3, many WNBA players are taller than me.its not like men are 7'0 feet tall on average never mind the fact that being tall is an advantage in every sport. The reality it is very difficult to look at persons skelatal frame and determine gender



As their testosterone levels approach female norms, trans women see a decrease in muscle mass, bone density and the proportion of oxygen-carrying red cells in their blood. The estrogen, meanwhile, boosts fat storage, especially around the hips. Together, these changes lead to a loss of speed, strength and endurance — all key components of athleticism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...acb1da-c68e-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html


Your argument boils down to frame, which isn't inherent to being male.
 
Transgender women who have undertaken testosterone suppression change from normal
male testosterone levels to normal female levels, in fact, after surgery their testosterone levels are
below the mean for 46,XX women (Gooren and Bunck, 425–429). Largely as a result of their
vastly reduced testosterone levels, transgender women lose strength, speed, and virtually every
other component of athletic ability.
Since this study looks at endurance capabilities of athletes both pre and post testosterone
suppression, it is also of significant interest to look at hematocrit or hemoglobin levels of
transgender women. One year after testosterone suppression, hemoglobin levels in transgender
women fell from 9.3 mmol/l to 8.0 mmol/l. This latter number is statistically identical to the
mean hemoglobin level for cisgender women (Gooren and Bunck 425–429).
The reduction of testosterone and hemoglobin levels of transgender women after transition
would suggest that endurance capabilities of transgender women athletes should be similar to
those of 46,XX women.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...DR7RmgpCg&sig2=44U5N2EeTX-bst2yifMvyw&cad=rja
 
Also that MMA fighter is 5'7. plenty of 5'7 women. :lol


she has no ovaries or testes so her testosterone is LOWER than her competitors.



What advantage does she have again? :lol
 
Also that MMA fighter is 5'7. plenty of 5'7 women. :lol


she has no ovaries or testes so her testosterone is LOWER than her competitors.



What advantage does she have again? :lol

Testosterone is only one factor among many.




So I started doing my own research...
Found exactly what I've been speaking on when I looked up what HRT can't change.


HRT cannot reverse bone changes that have already been established by puberty. Consequently, total height, the length of the arms, legs, hands, and feet, and the width/size of the shoulders and rib cage are all not affected by HRT. However, details of bone shape change throughout life, with bones becoming heavier and more deeply sculptured under the influence of androgens, and HRT will prevent such changes from developing any further.
The width of the hips are not affected in individuals in whom epiphyseal closure (fusion and closure of the ends of bones, which prevents any further lengthening) has taken place, an event which occurs in most people between 18 and 25 years of age.[citation needed] In addition, already established changes to the shape of the hips cannot be reversed by HRT whether epiphyseal closure has taken place yet or not.[citation needed]
Already established changes to the sculpture of the bone structure of the face are not affected by HRT. A significant majority of the craniofacial changes occur during adolescence, although continual through much of adult life postadolescenct growth is considerably slower and minimal by comparison.[50] Also unaffected is the prominence of the thyroid cartilage (Adam's apple). These changes may be reversed by surgery (facial feminization surgery and tracheal shave, respectively) instead.
During puberty, the voice deepens in pitch and becomes more resonant, effects which are permanent and are not affected by HRT. Voice therapy and optionally surgery may be used instead to achieve a more female sounding voice.
Facial hair develops during puberty, and this is a change that is only slightly affected by HRT. Facial hair may be near-permanently removed with laser hair removal or permanently with electrolysis instead.

http://www.worldlibrary.org/article...apy_(male-to-female)#Urogynecological_effects



Unfortunately, the annihilation of sex characteristics of the original sex is incomplete. In male-to-female transsexuals, there is no mode of treatment to revert earlier effects of androgens on the skeleton. The greater height, the shape of the jaws, the size and shape of the hands and feet, and the narrow width of the pelvis can not be redressed once they have reached their final size at the end of puberty. Conversely, the relative lower height in female-to-male transsexuals (in the Netherlands an average of 12 cms) and the broader hip configuration will not change under the influence of hormonal treatment


http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/hormone-tx_assch_gooren.htm

Even worse. The hips stay that of a mans as well. Punching power comes from the torque of hips.
Nope. No advantage there.....
Fox hass been on hormones for over ten years. Still no change


View media item 2021019

View media item 2021018

Hormones clearly aren't the be all fix in this time of science.
The day that happens and their hormone levels are monitored. I'm all for it. Otherwise, it's cheating.
 
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let people be what they want to be

if he/she is impacting someone in a positive way, more power to him/her

if it just makes you angry, your wasting energy you could be placing elsewhere
 
Testosterone is only one factor among many.




So I started doing my own research...
Found exactly what I've been speaking on when I looked up what HRT can't change.
http://www.worldlibrary.org/article...apy_(male-to-female)#Urogynecological_effects
http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/hormone-tx_assch_gooren.htm

Even worse. The hips stay that of a mans as well. Punching power comes from the torque of hips.
Nope. No advantage there.....
Fox hass been on hormones for over ten years. Still no change


View media item 2021019

View media item 2021018

Hormones clearly aren't the be all fix in this time of science.
The day that happens and their hormone levels are monitored. I'm all for it. Otherwise, it's cheating.

what is there to fix?

Unless they are a height that women are incapable of being natrually, or if they hands that women are incapable of having how do you fix it? how can you just aribtrarily pick a height or a size a women can be?

If we could decrease height, what would you decrease it to? 5'4? 5'3? You don't see how arbitrary that is?

What you're saying only makes sense if humans are like gorillas and males are twice the size of females. the overlap between frame size between men an women is giagantic.

Not to mention that with of the hips vary between races. black people have denser bones and narrower hips then european whites. so black women will have narrower hips than and denser bones than many white men.

so should black women be allowed to compete against white women? do they have an unfair advantage? :lol



5'7 Fallon Fox hands or jaw aren't impossibly big, they may be bigger than average or smaller but not something that is fundamentally impossible for a woman to posses.

The only thing that can't be appear naturally in any woman is testostorne levels.

You are just fundamentally confused about the physical differences between men and women.
 
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what is there to fix?

Unless they are a height that women are incapable of being natrually, or if they hands that women are incapable of having how do you fix it? how can you just aribtrarily pick a height or a size a women can be?

If we could decrease height, what would you decrease it to? 5'4? 5'3? You don't see how arbitrary that is?

What you're saying only makes sense if humans are like gorillas and males are twice the size of females. the overlap between frame size between men an women is giagantic.

Not to mention that with of the hips vary between races. black people have denser bones and narrower hips then european whites. so black women will have narrower hips than and denser bones than many white men.

so should black women be allowed to compete against white women? do they have an unfair advantage? :lol



5'7 Fallon Fox hands or jaw aren't impossibly big, they may be bigger than average or smaller but not something that is fundamentally impossible for a woman to posses.

The only thing that can't be appear naturally in any woman is testostorne levels.

You are just fundamentally confused about the physical differences between men and women.

Where am I confused?
You're acting as if high level male athletes have no differences from female athletes.

It seems you're looking at this from a social perspective as opposed to sports.
This isn't high school sports.
In high level, professional and olympic sports, every inch, every fraction of the human anatomy can mean the difference between winning and losing. Getting 1st place or being 2nd. When the stakes are this high with this caliber of athlete. Does it make sense to let these factors go unchecked? One of the very traits that is attributed to being a male?



You are clearly missing the point.
If a woman has big hands, tall height, that's perfectly fine. It's within the limits of the female physiology. It's when a man transitions to female is where the problem arises.
Testosterone alone is not the defining factor between men and women. Do you understand that much? With that said. There are other factors. Men generally have bigger skeletons than females. Bigger hands, longer reach, different hips, wider jaws. All of which do make a difference, especially in contact sports. Which I stated in exhaustion. During and after the transition, these attributes don't change. See previous post.
 
Where am I confused?
You're acting as if high level male athletes have no differences from female athletes.

It seems you're looking at this from a social perspective as opposed to sports.
This isn't high school sports.
In high level, professional and olympic sports, every inch, every fraction of the human anatomy can mean the difference between winning and losing. Getting 1st place or being 2nd. When the stakes are this high with this caliber of athlete. Does it make sense to let these factors go unchecked? One of the very traits that is attributed to being a male?



You are clearly missing the point.
If a woman has big hands, tall height, that's perfectly fine. It's within the limits of the female physiology. It's when a man transitions to female is where the problem arises.
Testosterone alone is not the defining factor between men and women. Do you understand that much? With that said. There are other factors. Men generally have bigger skeletons than females. Bigger hands, longer reach, different hips, wider jaws. All of which do make a difference, especially in contact sports. Which I stated in exhaustion. During and after the transition, these attributes don't change. See previous post.

i just...i don't.

look man I ran out of way to explain this it doesn't matter because the IOC has made their decision. so i guess you can continue to confused by it.
 
So is it OK for someone to say man to woman transgendered folks shouldn't be allowed to compete in traditional women's sports?

Or does that make me a bigot too?

I just don't see how that is fair at all
 
i just...i don't.

look man I ran out of way to explain this it doesn't matter because the IOC has made their decision. so i guess you can continue to confused by it.

I know. I posted the article.
It's because the social pressure of conforming to everything LGBT no matter the rationale is upon us. Otherwise, you're considered a bigot.

I just don't see how that is fair at all

Cause it's not!

Trying to break this down as simple as possible.
Lets take a team of adult male football players. Put them on a year of hormone therapy. Have them go against a team of adult female football players. Is this fair?
 
So is it OK for someone to say man to woman transgendered folks shouldn't be allowed to compete in traditional women's sports?

Or does that make me a bigot too?

I just don't see how that is fair at all

Say it till your blue in the face if you want to.

Unfortunately many governing bodies allow them to compete. Don't lose any sleep.
 
Say it till your blue in the face if you want to.

Unfortunately many governing bodies allow them to compete. Don't lose any sleep.
And why is it son far fetched to believe they know it is unfair but the break and allow them to compete because they don't want to be called names and protested against?

Like NOBODY with any type of rational brain thinks it is right. Especially in MMA.

Like what type of message does that send?
 
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