Is Carmelo Anthony Still Top 10? *Seriously??* 4/8/12

[GaBeGRaMz]

I agree with a lot of what RounDaWay said.

Dudes got Dirk in the top 10 like he does anything but shoot his post up, one foot fade away or trails a play and shoots the pull up 3. Where's the criticism on Dirk's defense? And he's 7 feet and rebounds at about the same rate as Melo. I respect Dirk and think he's one of the greats but he's very limited in what he does for you on the court.

D.Will is having the worst year of his career. Leading the league in Turnovers, doesn't impactfully effect the game on defense, team sucks and yet he's still mentioned.

Kevin Love is also great. I agree that he's a GREAT rebounder. Maybe best in the league. He's also been putting up big numbers in scoring, but I feel like his numbers are benefiting from being the number one option on a bad team when he shouldn't be. How can someone who is better suited as a complimentary player on a winning team be in the discussion? Love has been balling but a team with Love as the best player and #1 option is not a good look IMO.

Dwight Howard is a BEAST. He could probably get 30 and 30 every night IF he wanted to. But if he isn't dominating a game from the start or with-in the first 3 quarters he will not have ANY effect offensively in the fourth. He can still effect the game defensivley, but he can also hurt the team in the 4th because of his free throws. He doesn't have a good enough post up game or go to move to be effective in late game situations. To me if Dwight doesn't impose himself early and dominate a game from the start to build a big lead, he's can hurt the team in late game situations.

Rondo is a awesome talent. He can control a game with out scoring better then anyone not named Chris Paul. I just feel like he has the luxury of "taking games off". Not that he won't compete or play his best every game, but it isn't Rondo or bust. The Celtics are one of the BEST coached teams. His defense is overrated and/or benefits from Docs system. He still struggles with shooting from the field and is a liability at the line during the 4th quarter. I believe he is the type of player that can win a game by himself in the closing moments, but Melo has proven to be one of the best in the clutch.

It's sad that I keep seeing these "knowledgeable S&T NTers" are still blind to the fact that Carmelo's effort on D has been on par with some of the better defenders in the league. I believe that Tyson Chandler is a big reasonand probably most important reason the Knicks are playing the way they are, but it's wack that his offensive taps at the end of the game are pointed out, but the fact that the other dude down there hustling trying to get a hand on the ball was Melo and it's not credited. He hits 2 clutch shots to effect the outcome of the game and dudes are saying "but Chandler is the one who kept the ball alive".

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by tim teufel

Ever since d antoni was fired melo has actually been playing solid d. And this is coming from someone that has bashed him all year long on his poor play.

So with this newfound "effort" he's putting forth as of late....does it hold any credence that he was doggin' it (effort-wise) before Woodson took over?  I know many Knicks fans will point to injuries, being "new," adjustment period, etc....but it's not like a lightbulb just went on in his head.  He IS playing for a new coach, so where's the adjustment period there?  
  

 

[tim teufel]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by tim teufel

Ever since d antoni was fired melo has actually been playing solid d. And this is coming from someone that has bashed him all year long on his poor play.

So with this newfound "effort" he's putting forth as of late....does it hold any credence that he was doggin' it (effort-wise) before Woodson took over?  I know many Knicks fans will point to injuries, being "new," adjustment period, etc....but it's not like a lightbulb just went on in his head.  He IS playing for a new coach, so where's the adjustment period there?  
  

After seeing Dwight tank in a few games it has come to my mind damn has melo been tanking these games all along? I hope not and they find out he was injured or something

 

[mez 0ne]

Its quite obvious Melo was not playing hard for D'Antoni at all, and I find it comical how some Knicks fans keep reiterating "where the haters at now!??!?!?" s if the bashing was not warranted.

The injuries are fine, it affected his shot, I never got on him about having difficulties scoring....but when you're not scoring and putting zero effort on the defensive end, then you deserve the criticism. To give him credit though, last few games leading into D'Antoni's firing he was playing much harder, but he must've knew something we didn't.

 

[goldenchild9]

Man, everyone was dogging it under Pringles lol.

Defense is very much a team affair and it not debatable that _'antoni had no idea what he was doing in that respect.

Woodson has a very solid defensive gameplan and ideology. So now it's fair game to judge his defense. I'll say this about defense though....having Stoudemire and Carmelo on the same team gives you a clearer perspective about Melo's defensive ability and effort.

Lastly, how y'all dudes gonna cite Carmelo's defense as a weak point and then list Nash and Nowitzki ahead of him and others?

Knicks are the best defensive team in the league since the coaching change and Melo is a big part of that. I can't label him an incapable or unwilling defender with the way he's been playing lately.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Knicks are the best defensive team in the league since the coaching change and Melo is a big part of that. I can't label him an incapable or unwilling defender with the way he's been playing lately.

I'm not gonna go that far but they are definitely much improved.

 

[mez 0ne]

I dislike stats like that but the numbers they showed yesterday in terms of PPG allowed, efficiency and such, they were either 1st or 2nd....I was pretty impressed (despite small sample)

Guess the team as a whole just needed a new voice to lead them.

 

[duba169]

I give alot of credit to melo for getting dantoni fired. Sacrificed his stats for the greater good. That piece of ++%@ put his system before the team. He belongs in college. Or on the wizards.

Dantoni and injuries are the main reason he's been bad this season. Dantoni turned him into a $+%#+@* spot up shooter just like he did to gallo.

This top ten question is dumb though. I just dont understand why it matters. Can you win a championship with melo as the core main piece of a team? That's a better question.

Tyson is the most important layer on the team. Melo is the most talented.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by goldenchild9



Lastly, how y'all dudes gonna cite Carmelo's defense as a weak point and then list Nash and Nowitzki ahead of him and others?

You do understand that shot selection, defense, and overall effort were the reasons why I wouldn't want Melo on my squad. So Nash's ability to make plays for others and Dirk's ability to be unguarable and his high shooting efficiency is why I would rank them above Melo. It isn't just the lack of defense that makes me not value Melo's game as much as others.

 

[duba169]

You guys are exaggerating about How bad Melos defense. At least what I've seen from him on the Knicks. Didn't watch much of him in den.

 

[roundaway]

Understood. And hey, that's your opinion. But guys out here are saying he's def not top 10, and if you don't value his game, that's completely fine. But to disregard how he consistently impacted the game in two areas on winning teams is a tad disrespectful. All I'm arguing is there are only 5 talents (Bron, Kobe, Wade, Paul most likely Durant) that are CLEARLY better than MELO, the others are very debatable and to dismiss melo as not even close, or not on thy level is ridiculous.

 

[shuges]

I completely agree with DubA in that injuries and mainly D'antoni (or the coaching staff and/or Knicks management...I'm not quite sure who's bright idea it was) were the biggest reasons Melo stunk it up earlier in the year. Would any of you guys trade for a top 10 player and then strip away his game so much that he eventually becomes an afterthought on offense?


Like, if Kobe came here and was told he should sacrifice fga's for the good of the team, you guys really would agree with that? Or Bron? Or golden boy Durant?


Someone else said this, but it's crazy how people are mad when Russ takes shots away from KD cuz they want Kev to get more touches but some of those same people wil call Melo a ballhog for taking the most shots on the team.


Maybe it sounds like a copout, but the bottom line is that Melo is a scorer first and foremost. And if scorers don't get fed, they dont get into a rhythm and aren't as effective.


So to address DubJ, it's not that he was dogging it. Maybe more like sulking.

Cuz like JVG said, it's not a bad thing that Melo is/was prideful. People just keep mislabeling it as selfish.

 

[lildisciple111]

honestly how many of you are watching knicks games though every night? cause under woodson you can def SEE the effort on the glass, the defensive end, and him getting his shots. As a guy that watches every single game every night you can def see a change in his whole demeanor( you can pretty much say the same thing about the whole NYK squad, under woodson they've really been playing great.) but back to melo. he's arguably the Best offensive player in the league. and the effort is there NOW, so why can't the rankings interchange from month to month or week to week??

 

[GaBeGRaMz]

Dudes obviously dont watch Knick games.

They just go off what the espn "analyst" say.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by lildisciple111

honestly how many of you are watching knicks games though every night? cause under woodson you can def SEE the effort on the glass, the defensive end, and him getting his shots. As a guy that watches every single game every night you can def see a change in his whole demeanor( you can pretty much say the same thing about the whole NYK squad, under woodson they've really been playing great.) but back to melo. he's arguably the Best offensive player in the league. and the effort is there NOW, so why can't the rankings interchange from month to month or week to week??

I watch the Knicks once a week. I enjoy watching the Knicks because of the MSG Crowd and I enjoy hearing Frazier. Melo putting forth an effort on D since there has been a coaching change is not enough for me to change my overall attitude about his game. As I said before, Bart Simpson not coming to school with a slingshot for 3 weeks doesn't make him a model citizen. I need to see this over a long stretch before he loses the label. Same with Melo, I am not about to sit here and erase Defensive Effort from his Weaknesses simply because of this stretch that we are seeing from him.
So in short, he has to keep it up over time for him to lose the lazy label. Is that fair?

He is no where near the best offensive player in the league. Offensive isn't just scoring the basketball. Please don't hype it up.

 

[lildisciple111]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by lildisciple111

honestly how many of you are watching knicks games though every night? cause under woodson you can def SEE the effort on the glass, the defensive end, and him getting his shots. As a guy that watches every single game every night you can def see a change in his whole demeanor( you can pretty much say the same thing about the whole NYK squad, under woodson they've really been playing great.) but back to melo. he's arguably the Best offensive player in the league. and the effort is there NOW, so why can't the rankings interchange from month to month or week to week??

I watch the Knicks once a week. I enjoy watching the Knicks because of the MSG Crowd and I enjoy hearing Frazier. Melo putting forth an effort on D since there has been a coaching change is not enough for me to change my overall attitude about his game. As I said before, Bart Simpson not coming to school with a slingshot for 3 weeks doesn't make him a model citizen. I need to see this over a long stretch before he loses the label. Same with Melo, I am not about to sit here and erase Defensive Effort from his Weaknesses simply because of this stretch that we are seeing from him.
So in short, he has to keep it up over time for him to lose the lazy label. Is that fair?

He is no where near the best offensive player in the league. Offensive isn't just scoring the basketball. Please don't hype it up.

yea i think that's fair, but how long do you need him to keep this up for you to change his mind?
and just curious, offensively who are you gonna take over melo(you know he is the go to guy so he has to take a high number of shots)?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

At LEAST a season? Remember, right now we are talking about a short time span that Woodson has been there. And honestly, I am still leary of "trusting" Melo because he knows he is personally in the hot seat. Mike is gone so he knows the next line of blame is him. So when things go back to normal we will see how acts in terms of his effort. Right now is still the honeymoon phase, I would be a fool to try and fairly judge him during this period. Come back to me in April of 2013 and we can talk about his effort over the last year.
If someone just got suspended and they are back in school behaving themselves I wouldn't say that they have changed 2 weeks after they have been reinstated. Not at all.

Melo is a very good scorer. Offense is more than scoring.

 

[trynafeelmink]

To all Those who are quickly calling Durant the best player in the league im just asking... where exactly did this huge leap come from, he's a great scorer hands down, Very early in his career and has won nothing, Isn't anywhere near a great defender (capable when necessary, but not all game), passes the ball even less than Melo so i'm trying to figure out how someone who has had the same production Melo had in his first 4-5 years in the League is suddenly Better than the likes of Melo, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Dwight etc.

Not to mention this OKC team as constructed is better than any team Denver had during Melo's years? 

 

[duba169]

melo has been passing better than i thought he could.

we need more cutters TBH. those times we get stagnant are still the main problem

hes not lebron or a point guard level passer

but ive seen him find the open man out of double teams consistently

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by tyisny


To all Those who are quickly calling Durant the best player in the league im just asking... where exactly did this huge leap come from, he's a great scorer hands down, Very early in his career and has won nothing, Isn't anywhere near a great defender (capable when necessary, but not all game), passes the ball even less than Melo so i'm trying to figure out how someone who has had the same production Melo had in his first 4-5 years in the League is suddenly Better than the likes of Melo, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Dwight etc.

Not to mention this OKC team as constructed is better than any team Denver had during Melo's years? 

Who called him the best player in the NBA? I don't recall anyone saying that. 

 

[calibeebee]

Originally Posted by GaBeGRaMz


Rondo is a awesome talent. He can control a game with out scoring better then anyone not named Chris Paul. I just feel like he has the luxury of "taking games off". Not that he won't compete or play his best every game, but it isn't Rondo or bust. The Celtics are one of the BEST coached teams. His defense is overrated and/or benefits from Docs system. He still struggles with shooting from the field and is a liability at the line during the 4th quarter. I believe he is the type of player that can win a game by himself in the closing moments, but Melo has proven to be one of the best in the clutch.

I agree with your entire post except that I don't think Rondo's D is overrated.  It does benefit from docs system but the kid is quick and has hands that are 5 feet long and arms that are 20 feet long.  I think he's a naturally good defender if you couple his freakish build with his speed.

 

[abutta13]

i havent watched much nba aside from the knicks lately but i highly doubt there are 10 players playing better than melo is right now. ive never seen a player so hated since iverson. something about melo people just do not like.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I've saw people call him one of the top 3 players in the league ALL the time and i'm just lost..... Once again tho i blame it on the media and peoples lack of being able to form an opinion on basketball not regurgitated from ESPN  

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by lildisciple111

honestly how many of you are watching knicks games though every night? cause under woodson you can def SEE the effort on the glass, the defensive end, and him getting his shots. As a guy that watches every single game every night you can def see a change in his whole demeanor( you can pretty much say the same thing about the whole NYK squad, under woodson they've really been playing great.) but back to melo. he's arguably the Best offensive player in the league. and the effort is there NOW, so why can't the rankings interchange from month to month or week to week??

I watch the Knicks once a week. I enjoy watching the Knicks because of the MSG Crowd and I enjoy hearing Frazier. Melo putting forth an effort on D since there has been a coaching change is not enough for me to change my overall attitude about his game. As I said before, Bart Simpson not coming to school with a slingshot for 3 weeks doesn't make him a model citizen. I need to see this over a long stretch before he loses the label. Same with Melo, I am not about to sit here and erase Defensive Effort from his Weaknesses simply because of this stretch that we are seeing from him.
So in short, he has to keep it up over time for him to lose the lazy label. Is that fair?

He is no where near the best offensive player in the league. Offensive isn't just scoring the basketball. Please don't hype it up.

The "Melo doesn't play D" thing is way overblown with no real evidence other than his body language. The Nuggets were a better defensive team in his later years there on a per possession basis. I've also seen Melo take the challenge of defending LeBron at the end of close games and get the best of him when they are matched up. Sure, Melo's not gonna wow us with freakish chase-down blocks, but he's put forth a better effort over the past few years than people are willing to give him credit for. He's also a much better passer than he gets credit for. He's also a good ball handler, but of course proving that means he's being a "selfish ballhog."  I just wish it could be explained how he's gotten so many regular season wins in such a tough conference.

To the people who want to bring up his post-season success, where you would rank Melo's career vs. McGrady? People knock Melo for not having a scoring title, but he averaged 28 ppg with his team posting a winning record and a playoff berth. What was McGrady's team record when he averaged 35 ppg? I'm just trying to get a gauge because I don't remember anyone hating on McGrady the way they hate on Melo, who at least made it out of the first round in uniform. 

I also don't get the "coach killer" comments that have popped up when Melo put George Karl's name back on the map and is making a great case for Woodson to be the Knicks' official Head coach.

How was Melo named a tri-captain of the Olympic squad if he is what the haters say? I wouldn't mind the comments nearly as much if people would actually explain themselves logically.

 

[trynafeelmink]

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