Is it just the Jordan mystique that makes him the "undisputed" GOAT?

[mben32]

No.

But the "mystique" is what makes it hard for anyone to put up a debate of anyone being better, or for anyone dethroning him from that position of being the GOAT.

 

[deuce king]

One of the main things that most folks don't understand why Jordan IS the GOAT, or try to dispute him being the GOAT is his impact on the game of basketball itself.  You look at the game of basketball before Jordan entered the league and look at basketball during his run and after he retired and you can clearly see the difference if you actually follow the game.  Any and everybody that picked up a basketball after watching MJ play wanted to play or be just like him on the court.  There's a reason why the commercial "Be Like Mike" was created and it resonated so well, not just in America but all over the world. 

    

 

[dland24]

Not that it even needed to be listed, but nice post Ches. I swear S&T has been TERRIBLE recently.

 

[deuce king]

One of the main things that most folks don't understand why Jordan IS the GOAT, or try to dispute him being the GOAT is his impact on the game of basketball itself.  You look at the game of basketball before Jordan entered the league and look at basketball during his run and after he retired and you can clearly see the difference if you actually follow the game.  Any and everybody that picked up a basketball after watching MJ play wanted to play or be just like him on the court.  There's a reason why the commercial "Be Like Mike" was created and it resonated so well, not just in America but all over the world. 

    

 

[dland24]

Not that it even needed to be listed, but nice post Ches. I swear S&T has been TERRIBLE recently.

 

[grittyman20]

Let me rephrase the question...it's not about MJ being the GOAT but the premise that no one else is even in the discussion that I have a problem with. I do believe that there is a legitimate argument to be made for Wilt, Kareem, Magic and maybe even Oscar Robinson. The "mystic" makes people say he was the greatest scorer ever, but the statistics really don't support that argument.

at bald head comments

 

[grittyman20]

Let me rephrase the question...it's not about MJ being the GOAT but the premise that no one else is even in the discussion that I have a problem with. I do believe that there is a legitimate argument to be made for Wilt, Kareem, Magic and maybe even Oscar Robinson. The "mystic" makes people say he was the greatest scorer ever, but the statistics really don't support that argument.

at bald head comments

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

The "mystic" makes people say he was the greatest scorer ever, but the statistics really don't support that argument.

He holds the record for both the career regular season scoring average AND playoff scoring average... and he lead the league in scoring TEN times.

563 30+ point games, as well.

What statistics don't support the argument? The fact that Kareem played for 20 years and scored more total points?

 

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

The "mystic" makes people say he was the greatest scorer ever, but the statistics really don't support that argument.

He holds the record for both the career regular season scoring average AND playoff scoring average... and he lead the league in scoring TEN times.

563 30+ point games, as well.

What statistics don't support the argument? The fact that Kareem played for 20 years and scored more total points?

 

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

6 rings.
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

It's not the Jordan "mystique" that makes him the GOAT - what he did on the basketball court makes him the GOAT.

Fixed to factor in the things relevant to the individual player and not the entire team. But good post.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

6 rings.
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

It's not the Jordan "mystique" that makes him the GOAT - what he did on the basketball court makes him the GOAT.

Fixed to factor in the things relevant to the individual player and not the entire team. But good post.

 

[grittyman20]

So based on Jordan's accomplishments, let's look at Kareem's...
[table][tr][th=""]Career highlights and awards[/th][/tr][tr][td]

• 6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985,1987–1988)
• 6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971–1972, 1974,1976–1977, 1980)
• 19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
• 2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
• 10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976–1977,1980–1981, 1984, 1986)
• 5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978–1979, 1983,1985)
• 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974–1975,1979–1981)
• 6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970–1971,1976–1978, 1984)
• NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
• NBA All-Rookie Team (1970)
• NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
• 3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967–1969)
• 3× NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1967–1969)
• Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
• 2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1967–196
• #33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
• #33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers

[/td][/tr][/table]

I can see why some people feel as if KAJ is the greatest of all time as well, his accomplishments are just as impressive.

 

[grittyman20]

So based on Jordan's accomplishments, let's look at Kareem's...
[table][tr][th=""]Career highlights and awards[/th][/tr][tr][td]

• 6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985,1987–1988)
• 6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971–1972, 1974,1976–1977, 1980)
• 19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
• 2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
• 10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976–1977,1980–1981, 1984, 1986)
• 5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978–1979, 1983,1985)
• 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974–1975,1979–1981)
• 6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970–1971,1976–1978, 1984)
• NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
• NBA All-Rookie Team (1970)
• NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
• 3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967–1969)
• 3× NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1967–1969)
• Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
• 2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1967–196
• #33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
• #33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers

[/td][/tr][/table]

I can see why some people feel as if KAJ is the greatest of all time as well, his accomplishments are just as impressive.

 

[duba169]

one of the main reasons why nobody will ever surpass him is that older heads don't even respect the league the same way. From the rules, to the way the game is officiated, to the players. So it will take decades before people forget about all the changes

 

[duba169]

one of the main reasons why nobody will ever surpass him is that older heads don't even respect the league the same way. From the rules, to the way the game is officiated, to the players. So it will take decades before people forget about all the changes

 

[university of nike]

Kareem lead the league in scoring one time in 20 years.

 

[university of nike]

Kareem lead the league in scoring one time in 20 years.

 

[supervi11ain]

People put so much emphasis on his accolades and achievements. Just watching him play I had no doubt in my mind that I was watching the greatest player to ever play the game.

 

[supervi11ain]

People put so much emphasis on his accolades and achievements. Just watching him play I had no doubt in my mind that I was watching the greatest player to ever play the game.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Serious question, because it kills me when people say that he's the undisputed greatest player of all time like there's no reasonable debate for any other player. Yes he won 6 championships, but so did Kareem...and Russell had 11. Jordan had 6 regular season MVP's, so did Kareem. MJ had 10 scoring titles, Kareem only had 2...but he's the NBA All-time's leading scorer.


Career regular season ppg: 30.1
Career playoff ppg: 33.4
Career finals ppg: 33.6

Find a player that has this. Next to all this:

No mystique is necessary. A debate based purely on empirical evidence WILL show that Jordan is GOAT.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Serious question, because it kills me when people say that he's the undisputed greatest player of all time like there's no reasonable debate for any other player. Yes he won 6 championships, but so did Kareem...and Russell had 11. Jordan had 6 regular season MVP's, so did Kareem. MJ had 10 scoring titles, Kareem only had 2...but he's the NBA All-time's leading scorer.


Career regular season ppg: 30.1
Career playoff ppg: 33.4
Career finals ppg: 33.6

Find a player that has this. Next to all this:

No mystique is necessary. A debate based purely on empirical evidence WILL show that Jordan is GOAT.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

So based on Jordan's accomplishments, let's look at Kareem's...
[table][tr][th=""]Career highlights and awards[/th][/tr][tr][td]

• 6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985,1987–1988)
• 6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971–1972, 1974,1976–1977, 1980)
• 19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
• 2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
• 10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976–1977,1980–1981, 1984, 1986)
• 5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978–1979, 1983,1985)
• 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974–1975,1979–1981)
• 6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970–1971,1976–1978, 1984)
• NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
• NBA All-Rookie Team (1970)
• NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
• 3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967–1969)
• 3× NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1967–1969)
• Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
• 2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1967–196
• #33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
• #33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers

[/td][/tr][/table]

I can see why some people feel as if KAJ is the greatest of all time as well, his accomplishments are just as impressive.

jordan has way more records than that.

he has tons of obscure records like: "most 55+ point playoff games"


no one is seeing jordan on NBA records.

if it gets real ignorant in here, and people keep bringin up wilt and kareem, ill post more of them.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

So based on Jordan's accomplishments, let's look at Kareem's...
[table][tr][th=""]Career highlights and awards[/th][/tr][tr][td]

• 6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985,1987–1988)
• 6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971–1972, 1974,1976–1977, 1980)
• 19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
• 2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
• 10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976–1977,1980–1981, 1984, 1986)
• 5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978–1979, 1983,1985)
• 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974–1975,1979–1981)
• 6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970–1971,1976–1978, 1984)
• NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
• NBA All-Rookie Team (1970)
• NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
• 3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967–1969)
• 3× NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1967–1969)
• Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
• 2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1967–196
• #33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
• #33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers

[/td][/tr][/table]

I can see why some people feel as if KAJ is the greatest of all time as well, his accomplishments are just as impressive.

jordan has way more records than that.

he has tons of obscure records like: "most 55+ point playoff games"


no one is seeing jordan on NBA records.

if it gets real ignorant in here, and people keep bringin up wilt and kareem, ill post more of them.

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Kareem lead the league in scoring one time in 20 years.

Once again, I'm not here trying to debate whether or not Jordan is the GOAT. The fact that KAJ (as well as others) has a list of accomplishments that can not be ignored justifies a legitimate discussion does it not?

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Kareem lead the league in scoring one time in 20 years.

Once again, I'm not here trying to debate whether or not Jordan is the GOAT. The fact that KAJ (as well as others) has a list of accomplishments that can not be ignored justifies a legitimate discussion does it not?