Is it just the Jordan mystique that makes him the "undisputed" GOAT?

[dt43]

one of my favorite Jordan stats is that he has the highest career PPG of ALL TIME. #1. a lot of people assume its Wilt or Kareem.

Jordan was just killing from the moment he stepped on the basketball court til the end. even on the Wizards he dropped 50. he never faltered in the Finals not once, never did anything to show that maybe he was human.

you just cant get any better at basketball.

 

[gottips3]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by Gottips3

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  

I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  

 

[gottips3]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by Gottips3

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  

I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by Gottips3

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by Gottips3

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  

I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  

I liked this one. 

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by Gottips3

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by Gottips3

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  

I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  

I liked this one. 

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Gottips3 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Gottips3 wrote:

---

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  
I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  
I think his success in basketball has more to do with who he is as a person.
He wasnt drop dead head over heels in love with basketball.
Your first love is always your last love.
I aint buying the suspension bit either.
Why the Whitesox?
Cause Jerry Reinsdorf said the only way you get paid your basketball salary is if you go to a team I own.
That's a fair request.
Chicago fans. Ever wounder why Jerry is realatively cheap with the Bulls?
Its cause he loves the White sox and baseball so much he is willing to take slight losses on them.
Hes never gotten close to that with the Bulls.
Who did he purchase first the Sox or the Bulls?
Your first love is always your last love.
Michael never loved basketball. He always talked about an early retirement.
You ever seen the letterman episode where he talked about going to the PGA tour?

If he chose to do it after title number 1 hes a major leaguer by 1994.

On the grading scale he had an 80 for an arm
and an 80 in speed .


  

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Gottips3 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Gottips3 wrote:

---

He was actually suspended from the NBA because of gambling. He retired as a "cover up" to keep his image ....Thats the story. Why anybody would retire at there PRIME is beyond me.
  

He wasn't suspended from the NBA, quit trying to pawn that rumor off as fact. 

  
I can believe it. There is no way someone who loves basketball as much as MJ did retire out of nowhere like that, just to play baseball. There is always something behind it.The fact that he had a PRESS CONFRENCE to announce it, also rubs me the wrong way.

  
I think his success in basketball has more to do with who he is as a person.
He wasnt drop dead head over heels in love with basketball.
Your first love is always your last love.
I aint buying the suspension bit either.
Why the Whitesox?
Cause Jerry Reinsdorf said the only way you get paid your basketball salary is if you go to a team I own.
That's a fair request.
Chicago fans. Ever wounder why Jerry is realatively cheap with the Bulls?
Its cause he loves the White sox and baseball so much he is willing to take slight losses on them.
Hes never gotten close to that with the Bulls.
Who did he purchase first the Sox or the Bulls?
Your first love is always your last love.
Michael never loved basketball. He always talked about an early retirement.
You ever seen the letterman episode where he talked about going to the PGA tour?

If he chose to do it after title number 1 hes a major leaguer by 1994.

On the grading scale he had an 80 for an arm
and an 80 in speed .


  

 

[luxurious24]

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

 

[luxurious24]

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

 

[grittyman20]

Jordan is without a doubt the greatest player of our era, the single most dominant basketball figure I've ever witnessed in person. But, other players have been just as dominant in during their respective eras to the point where I feel like it's impossible to label anyone the greatest of all time...let alone say it's an undisputed title. 
Looking at the bio on NBA.com about Kareem:

When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar left the game in 1989 at age 42, no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more Most Valuable Player Awards, played in more All-Star Games or logged more seasons. His list of personal and team accomplishments is perhaps the most awesome in league history: Rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champion, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time Teams. He also owned eight playoff records and seven All-Star records. No player achieved as much individual and team success as did Abdul-Jabbar. Players 10 years his junior couldn't keep up with Abdul-Jabbar, whose strict physical-fitness regimen was years ahead of its time in the NBA. 

KAJ had an un-guardable go to move in the Sky Hook, and they also outlawed the dunk because of him. His individual dominance before Jordan was unmatched, yet Mike comes along and now Kareem is not even in the discussion? That's just beyond ridiculous to me...

 

[hankmoody]

NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS (UPDATED 6/20/10):
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)

1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points

(Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 87 total points
2nd Place: Kobe, 77 total points
3rd Place: Tim D, 75 total points

(Please refer to:
http://www.usatoday.com/spo...


ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS:
1st Place: MJ, 24 scoring records
2nd Place: Wilt, 18 scoring records
3rd Place: Moot

- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6 (min. 15 games)
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single season playoff average: MJ 43.7
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most Total Points Career: Kareem 38387
- Most Total Points Season: Wilt 4029
- Most Total Points Playoffs: MJ 5987
- Most Total Points Finals: West 1679
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most seasons leading league in total points: MJ 11
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ, Wilt tied at 7
- Most 60 point games: Wilt 32
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 38
- Most 30 point games: MJ 563
- Most 30 point games playoffs: MJ 109
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: Manu 24
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: LBJ 25
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: KB 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Carmelo/Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40

 

[hankmoody]

NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS (UPDATED 6/20/10):
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)

1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points

(Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 87 total points
2nd Place: Kobe, 77 total points
3rd Place: Tim D, 75 total points

(Please refer to:
http://www.usatoday.com/spo...


ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS:
1st Place: MJ, 24 scoring records
2nd Place: Wilt, 18 scoring records
3rd Place: Moot

- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6 (min. 15 games)
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single season playoff average: MJ 43.7
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most Total Points Career: Kareem 38387
- Most Total Points Season: Wilt 4029
- Most Total Points Playoffs: MJ 5987
- Most Total Points Finals: West 1679
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most seasons leading league in total points: MJ 11
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ, Wilt tied at 7
- Most 60 point games: Wilt 32
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 38
- Most 30 point games: MJ 563
- Most 30 point games playoffs: MJ 109
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: Manu 24
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: LBJ 25
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: KB 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Carmelo/Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40

 

[grittyman20]

Jordan is without a doubt the greatest player of our era, the single most dominant basketball figure I've ever witnessed in person. But, other players have been just as dominant in during their respective eras to the point where I feel like it's impossible to label anyone the greatest of all time...let alone say it's an undisputed title. 
Looking at the bio on NBA.com about Kareem:

When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar left the game in 1989 at age 42, no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more Most Valuable Player Awards, played in more All-Star Games or logged more seasons. His list of personal and team accomplishments is perhaps the most awesome in league history: Rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champion, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time Teams. He also owned eight playoff records and seven All-Star records. No player achieved as much individual and team success as did Abdul-Jabbar. Players 10 years his junior couldn't keep up with Abdul-Jabbar, whose strict physical-fitness regimen was years ahead of its time in the NBA. 

KAJ had an un-guardable go to move in the Sky Hook, and they also outlawed the dunk because of him. His individual dominance before Jordan was unmatched, yet Mike comes along and now Kareem is not even in the discussion? That's just beyond ridiculous to me...

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by luxurious24

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

Off the court means nothing in this discussion. Allen Iverson had a bigger impact "off the court" than Shaq but that doesn't make him a better player now does it?

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by luxurious24

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

Off the court means nothing in this discussion. Allen Iverson had a bigger impact "off the court" than Shaq but that doesn't make him a better player now does it?

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

6 rings.
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

It's not the Jordan "mystique" that makes him the GOAT - what he did on the basketball court makes him the GOAT.

Thread/.

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

6 rings.
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

It's not the Jordan "mystique" that makes him the GOAT - what he did on the basketball court makes him the GOAT.

Thread/.

 

[grittyman20]

You guys do understand that the fact that you go look up stats and accolades about Jordan, compare them to the stats and accolades that I posted of Kareem and we can actually have dialogue about different categories like MVPs, scoring titles, etc makes this a discussion right? I'm not saying anything strictly opinion based...so it's not a stretch of the imagination to see why some people don't think that Jordan is in a category by himself.

 

[grittyman20]

You guys do understand that the fact that you go look up stats and accolades about Jordan, compare them to the stats and accolades that I posted of Kareem and we can actually have dialogue about different categories like MVPs, scoring titles, etc makes this a discussion right? I'm not saying anything strictly opinion based...so it's not a stretch of the imagination to see why some people don't think that Jordan is in a category by himself.

 

[luxurious24]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

Originally Posted by luxurious24

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

Off the court means nothing in this discussion. Allen Iverson had a bigger impact "off the court" than Shaq but that doesn't make him a better player now does it?

  
So what are we comparing then, who is the better player all time in terms of just skill? That’s just too easy; it’s obviously Jordan in his prime.  Jordan: offensively was unstoppable, great perimeter defense, excellent passer, the hang time, the vertical, the first step, great basketball IQ. Jordan found your weakness and exploited it, and later in his career, he still dominated by his ability to change his game (fadeaways) to make up for what he lost (his speed and vertical).

 

[luxurious24]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

Originally Posted by luxurious24

Michael Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T for the same reason Biggie and Tupac are described as such, he brought basketball to another level, basketball was #1 all ova the world, all because of 1 man. He changed the game, both on and off the court. No one can ever have a greater effect or even the same effect on the game like he did.

Off the court means nothing in this discussion. Allen Iverson had a bigger impact "off the court" than Shaq but that doesn't make him a better player now does it?

  
So what are we comparing then, who is the better player all time in terms of just skill? That’s just too easy; it’s obviously Jordan in his prime.  Jordan: offensively was unstoppable, great perimeter defense, excellent passer, the hang time, the vertical, the first step, great basketball IQ. Jordan found your weakness and exploited it, and later in his career, he still dominated by his ability to change his game (fadeaways) to make up for what he lost (his speed and vertical).

 

[5am6oody72]

@ having 38 playoff games where he scored 40 points or more, Kobe has 11 and he's seen as probably the best scorer of our generation. Jordan also had 109 where he had 30 or more.

 

[5am6oody72]

@ having 38 playoff games where he scored 40 points or more, Kobe has 11 and he's seen as probably the best scorer of our generation. Jordan also had 109 where he had 30 or more.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

when bron announced he was changing his number cause 23 should be retired throughout the whole league, mike came out and said larry, magic, bill's numbers should be too.


i think every era has their GOAT. its unfair to call anyone the undisputed GOAT unless its gretzky

 

[westcoastsfinest]

when bron announced he was changing his number cause 23 should be retired throughout the whole league, mike came out and said larry, magic, bill's numbers should be too.


i think every era has their GOAT. its unfair to call anyone the undisputed GOAT unless its gretzky