Is this self-defense, or murder??? What do you think? Watch this vid...

[letsgetit22]

lakersmets49ers wrote:

maybe i'm wrong about the criminal record part but be realistic here i doubt a kid whos never gotten in trouble before is going to say, "gee golly wiz, let me go rob a store today" more then likely that kid had a record for doing stupid stuff.

your more then welcome to defend scum though.


as far as him having a record, you never know, that could've been his first crime.
But, as for people saying that he deserved it, and if you commit a crime then you should expect the worst. I feel like you can say the same about excessiveactions, like killing someone even though they're no longer a threat to you. You should expect whatever punishment you may get; which may be jail.

 

[frostythepoptart]

self protection and murder... somebody who has been shot lay unconscious and has no threat, why would you shoot an unconscious person on the floor instead ofcalling the police and waiting.

its murder. and he deserves as much punishment as dude who tried to robbed the place and harm him.

i dont see how anyone can honestly say they'd "pat someone on the back"

if they watched an injured not moving person laying on their back, unloaded on 5 times.

 

[lakersmets49ers]

Originally Posted by letsgetit22

lakersmets49ers wrote:

maybe i'm wrong about the criminal record part but be realistic here i doubt a kid whos never gotten in trouble before is going to say, "gee golly wiz, let me go rob a store today" more then likely that kid had a record for doing stupid stuff.

your more then welcome to defend scum though.

as far as him having a record, you never know, that could've been his first crime.
But, as for people saying that he deserved it, and if you commit a crime then you should expect the worst. I feel like you can say the same about excessive actions, like killing someone even though they're no longer a threat to you. You should expect whatever punishment you may get; which may be jail.


i see where your comming from, you can make the argument that the extra shots were excessive and in the end the guy will probably go to jail but the real sadpart is that the kid probably didn't have proper guidance growing up, and i'm saying that because somewhere down the line it didn't dawn on him howserious the crime he attempted was. it sucks how bad and thoughtless alot of kids in todays era can be.

truthfully i feel he deserved the first shot because in that situation its either kill or be killed. you can argue the rest of the shots but hopefullysomething positive comes out of this and that positive would be that more kids think about what the end result might be before they go into a store and try torob it or rob anyone in general.

 

[josebronx]

Kids are stupid, everyone knows that. Just look at some of NT members. But no one deserves to get killed no matter what. One life is lost and the otherdestroid. The guilt of the guy that shot the kid will bother him for life, maybe.

But like I said its either me or you. In that situation I would make sure your dead because I dont want to MY LIFE.

The guy should get charge with anything.



BTW I cant see the video because Im at work, Im just picking up from you guys say.

 

[purple face]

H-h-h-headshot[/Counter-Strike]

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

If yall seen that movies FELON they did that dude wrong for protecting his fam.

 

[queencitysneakerqueen]

Murder

 

[jumpshot]

That's self defense in my book. That dude deserved what he got. Stupid kid

. I'd probably do the same in that situation. I got no regard for acriminal's life. I'll take it if I have to. I'm not gonna think about his well being when he just tried to rob me. He'll be swimming with thefishes where he belongs.

 

[russ tha g]

How can you kill somebody that was likely already dead? I mean, the news report can say what it wishes to, but not many people survive gun shot wounds to thehead in the first place. I would investigate and attempt to poke holes into how they came to that conclusion because it sounds like a load of crap. If theyfind this guy guilty, store owners will have NO rights in the future with this as precedent and will be at the mercy of moronic goons with pistols like the twoworthless pieces of trash in this video.

Murder requires some malice aforethought (premeditated)... I doubt the guy had a plan to kill this punk before he came in trying to rob him at gun point.

at everybody saying "murder" just because he shot him again.

 

[emmanuel goldstein]

!@#% them ... they both should have died ...

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by Mr Anleu

smh at you guys saying the kid deserved...maybe you guys haven't heard of the consitution but it states that nobody can have their life liberty or pursuit of happiness taken away from them without due process. yes, the kid would have been found guilty anyway but that was for a jury of his peers and for a judge to decide what his punishment should be.

if what this man did is justifiable than the kids family should be able to shoot him for having killed their son.

The "kid" made a choice...that choice came with consequences...

In the man's defense, I'm sure there are a million things going through his head. Even if you think he had time to go outside before coming back toshoot the kid, you can't tell me that you honestly think he was in the right frame of mind. I look at it this way. I am not a gun owner...but if someoneis coming on my property with the intention of robbing, hurting, or trying to burglarize me or my family, I'm doing everything in my power to take themout. I don't have ANY remorse or pity for that kid. He made a terrible decision, and due to it, he paid with his life. As contradictory as this maysound, I do see both sides of this argument. However, I am siding w. the shop owner on this one. It was self-defense IMO...

 

[airkeung88]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by Mr Anleu

smh at you guys saying the kid deserved...maybe you guys haven't heard of the consitution but it states that nobody can have their life liberty or pursuit of happiness taken away from them without due process. yes, the kid would have been found guilty anyway but that was for a jury of his peers and for a judge to decide what his punishment should be.

if what this man did is justifiable than the kids family should be able to shoot him for having killed their son.

The "kid" made a choice...that choice came with consequences...

In the man's defense, I'm sure there are a million things going through his head. Even if you think he had time to go outside before coming back to shoot the kid, you can't tell me that you honestly think he was in the right frame of mind. I look at it this way. I am not a gun owner...but if someone is coming on my property with the intention of robbing, hurting, or trying to burglarize me or my family, I'm doing everything in my power to take them out. I don't have ANY remorse or pity for that kid. He made a terrible decision, and due to it, he paid with his life. As contradictory as this may sound, I do see both sides of this argument. However, I am siding w. the shop owner on this one. It was self-defense IMO...

self defense....period.
If anyone, could be 12 or 65 yrs old person try to rob me with a GUN? I'll shoot no matter what.

 

[marlsj]

Murder.

 

[russ tha g]

Originally Posted by marlsj

Murder.

Why?

Not trying to single you out from the rest of the identical replies, but I don't think people understand the definition of murder when they say that.I'm sure half the people saying it are probably 13 and their only knowledge of the law comes from dramas on TNT.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Russ tha G

Originally Posted by marlsj

Murder.

Why?



Not trying to single you out from the rest of the identical replies, but I don't think people understand the definition of murder when they say that. I'm sure half the people saying it are probably 13 and their only knowledge of the law comes from dramas on TNT.

you're wrong...but you're also right

Manslaughter: Voluntary
Voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. In the heat of the moment, Dan picks up a golf club from next to the bed and strikes Victor in the head, killing him instantly.


as opposed to

Murder: Second degree
Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. At a stoplight the next day, Dan sees Victor riding in the passenger seat of a nearby car. Dan pulls out a gun and fires three shots into the car, missing Victor but killing the driver of the car.


or

Murder: First Degree
In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Three days later, Dan waits behind a tree near Victor's front door. When Victor comes out of the house, Dan shoots and kills him.

Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.

For example, Dan and Connie rob Victor's liquor store, but as they are fleeing, Victor shoots and kills Dan. Under the felony murder rule, Connie can be charged with first-degree murder for Dan's death.


methinks he'll plea to the lesser of the charges and serve a lil time. if it goes to a jury then it will all depend on what they consider areasonable heat of passion.

 

[dirtylicious]

^that last one isn't right.
Connie should be charged with 1st degree murder.

btw. as for people saying you can't be charged for killing someone who isn't dead...
pretty sure that's a classic law school question... attempted murder. which have just as stiff penalties as murder charges

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^that last one isn't right.
Connie should be charged with 1st degree murder.

btw. as for people saying you can't be charged for killing someone who isn't dead...
pretty sure that's a classic law school question... attempted murder. which have just as stiff penalties as murder charges

depends on the jurisdiction. in some states attempt isnt as bad as the actual crime, but according to common law rules, attempt is as bad asactually committing the infraction.

i'm not familiar with the laws in oklahoma, but this is kindaaaaa similar to the Bernie Goetz subway case.

 

[dayman]

i would find it justifiable...dudes came in with a weapon and even if shot one of them in the head and see one movement from him, i'm not taking anychances.

 

[emmanuel goldstein]

what if he had one last gasp of air and shot a gun off? then wed be talking about two deaths instead of one ... thank god only the goon died ...

 

[fightingfrog62]

murder

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

^that last one isn't right.
Connie should be charged with 1st degree murder.

How do you figure? This definition listed by manslaughter right here describes it perfectly:

such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed;

Obviously this wasn't premeditated - dude didn't wake up that morning thinking he was going to murder this kid he never met. It was a classic heat ofthe moment thing.

 

[dirtylicious]

btw. dude is dunzo, He's lied already...

http://newsok.com/man-has...pharmacy/article/3371710

An organized hit
After the pharmacy near SW 59 and Pennsylvania was robbed two years ago, the owner installed new security measures to try to make sure his employees would never again be forced to a back room and pistol-whipped.
"We have a very good security system," Ersland said, motioning to the magnetic door locks that won't let anyone in or out of the store without permission. "The door locks, and they (robbers) knew that. They had cased it because they knew exactly what time to hit us when we'd have all of our narcotics out and our money out."

About 10 minutes before 6 p.m., Ersland said, two robbers wearing ski masks waited for someone to leave the pharmacy and then grabbed the open door and threw down a board to stop the door from closing.

The robbers went in cursing and yelling, ordering employees to give them money and drugs, Ersland said.

Two women who were working behind the counter ran for a back room where they would be safe, but Ersland said he couldn't run. Ersland said he's a veteran with disabilities from wounds he received in Operation Desert Storm, wears a cumbersome back brace and just had his latest back surgery six weeks ago.

"All of a sudden, they started shooting," he said. "They were attempting to kill me, but they didn't know I had a gun. They said, 'You're gonna die.' That's when one of them shot at me, and that's when he got my hand."

Ersland said he was thrown against a wall, but managed to go for the semiautomatic in his pocket.

"And that's when I started defending myself," he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun."

But as one robber hit the floor, Ersland said, a bullet from the other robber whizzed past his ear.

The pharmacist said he then got his second gun from a nearby drawer, a Taurus "Judge."

After he had the big gun, Ersland said, the second robber ran.

But as he started to chase after the second robber, Ersland said, he looked back to see the 16-year-old he had shot in the head getting up again. Ersland said he then emptied the Kel-Tec .380 into the boy's chest as he kept going after the second robber.

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I'm crippled," Ersland said.

Outside the pharmacy, he said he saw what he thought was a third black male in a car with the engine running and reaching for what appeared to be a shotgun.

"I pulled out my 'Judge' and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it," Ersland said.

 

[doublejs07]

Wow....

(off the link Dirty posted)

The investigation
Because of the sensitive nature of the investigation, police said they could not confirm any of Ersland's story, including whether Ersland was shot, whether the robbers ever fired on him or even if Parker was armed.
On Thursday, police were still looking for the second robber, described as a black man in his 20s, about 5 feet, 7 inches tall, and weighing about 175 pounds. The man was last seen wearing a red shirt and dark pants.

A man was arrested about a block away after crashing a stolen car that fit the description Ersland gave, but police said the man has not been linked to the robbery.

After the gunfire
When he went back in the pharmacy, Ersland said, he called police.
"I asked if the girls were all right, and they were in the back crying," he said. "I was glad to know they were alive. We were lucky and I'm glad I defended us, because I feel that a person has a right to defend themselves at their home or at their work. People deserve to be safe and not be afraid of people that want to take money when they don't work for it."

That's what the Second Amendment and the state's "concealed carry" license are for, he said.

"Fortunately, God made them miss me, except for this minor scratch," Ersland said.

"I was able to return fire and protect the girls' lives. God was helping me."


Link

^check the brace Ersland has to wear also....

 

[ago225]

murder. one shot is enough. and that first shot was to the dome.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

btw. dude is dunzo, He's lied already...

http://newsok.com/man-has...pharmacy/article/3371710

An organized hit
After the pharmacy near SW 59 and Pennsylvania was robbed two years ago, the owner installed new security measures to try to make sure his employees would never again be forced to a back room and pistol-whipped.
"We have a very good security system," Ersland said, motioning to the magnetic door locks that won't let anyone in or out of the store without permission. "The door locks, and they (robbers) knew that. They had cased it because they knew exactly what time to hit us when we'd have all of our narcotics out and our money out."

About 10 minutes before 6 p.m., Ersland said, two robbers wearing ski masks waited for someone to leave the pharmacy and then grabbed the open door and threw down a board to stop the door from closing.

The robbers went in cursing and yelling, ordering employees to give them money and drugs, Ersland said.

Two women who were working behind the counter ran for a back room where they would be safe, but Ersland said he couldn't run. Ersland said he's a veteran with disabilities from wounds he received in Operation Desert Storm, wears a cumbersome back brace and just had his latest back surgery six weeks ago.

"All of a sudden, they started shooting," he said. "They were attempting to kill me, but they didn't know I had a gun. They said, 'You're gonna die.' That's when one of them shot at me, and that's when he got my hand."

Ersland said he was thrown against a wall, but managed to go for the semiautomatic in his pocket.

"And that's when I started defending myself," he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun."

But as one robber hit the floor, Ersland said, a bullet from the other robber whizzed past his ear.

The pharmacist said he then got his second gun from a nearby drawer, a Taurus "Judge."

After he had the big gun, Ersland said, the second robber ran.

But as he started to chase after the second robber, Ersland said, he looked back to see the 16-year-old he had shot in the head getting up again. Ersland said he then emptied the Kel-Tec .380 into the boy's chest as he kept going after the second robber.

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I'm crippled," Ersland said.

Outside the pharmacy, he said he saw what he thought was a third black male in a car with the engine running and reaching for what appeared to be a shotgun.

"I pulled out my 'Judge' and pointed it right between his eyes and he floored it," Ersland said.

This probably won't mean anything to the investigation - if this is just a statement taken from afterwards, but not officially in court then it doesn'tmatter. Even if it's in court, a decent lawyer will say that the trauma of the situation has clouded his memory about how events transpired.