It Was 400 Years Ago, They Said

[hennessy]

Yea, loans are the main reason why people are encouraging banking black. A black business owner would have a less difficult time getting a loan from a black bank than say BofA or the likes, that's reality.

Exactly. And the more people (like me) constantly putting money into black banks allows them to give out more loans to people who may face unfair judgement or be subjected to predatory lending at other institutions. Everything comes full circle. Which is why everyone in this thread preaching about black-owned whatever you better have your money in a black bank before I call you a hypocrite.

But as I have just said and have been saying NT for a while... It starts with education. I've worked with inner city kids teaching them budgeting, how to write a check, steering them away from using credit cards, etc.... Twice a week during the academic year for two years. These kids are clueless. Trust me money is the last thing on their minds. Educate the kids how to start and run their own businesses. How to manage finances. How to write a business plan that wil guarantee them a solid loan with a fair interest rate. THEN they go to a bank that won't pass judgement and wants them to succeed. If they have the knowledge and at least some money to work with, they at least have a shot to become successful and pass that to the next generation. That's how you break the system, IMO.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is that resources are available and people in and out of the black community are working towards a better future for America, collectively. The people out here actually trying to make a difference will work with anyone and they aren't making excuses. They are the total opposite of hand2handking and everything his post history has stood for on NT. Blacks should never forget their history and they should be prideful but too much of anything (even in pride) is never good. This separatist movement is for the angry and frustrated, not progressive. The conversation is important but trust me this conversation isn't being had in real life when people from different backgrounds are working together toward one financial goal.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Finally I do support black business and much as I can, and I volunteer and mentor. However their are no black own banks around me as far as I know, also, I think the black own bank thing is kinda propped up too much. While it is good, I think it is more symbolic than practical. I have other ideas about banking, outside this discussion.

Yeah banks in general are a broken part of the economic system. It's really scary that we are moving completely away from cash as well.

Banks don't give a good return on your money. They really just hold it. Well, they really just give it out to other people and make money at your own expense while offering you next to nothing. For that reason at least, you may want to put your money in a black-owned bank because at least your money (which the bank is basically holding hostage) can be used by other people who need a loan from that bank, and they will likely be black. I will disagree with you and say that it actually IS more practical than symbolic as a way to build wealth in the black community. But it takes successful people like you and I to put our money in that bank first and let the bank choose who they will lend our money too. But yeah, **** banks in general. Keep $10k in there and get your own safe/assets.

You can't deposit more than $10k cash into a bank without being subjected to a suspicion filing. You might be saying, "well yeah that makes sense it's a lot of cash to deposit and may be associated with something illegal." Well the same thing applies with taking out more than $10k. The bank might not even have that on hand. And if they do, you will have a suspicion report filed against you. Did you know if you want to close a bank account with more than $10k in it they usually won't let you withdraw that cash? You'd have to find another bank and your first bank would write a check to transfer the balance. Essentially, anything in excess of $10k in the bank is worthless and should be invested into other assets. I found this out the hard way when I tried to empty an account and was told I couldn't receive my money in cash :x

I use Industrial Bank in DC. You can look into Harbor Bank in MD/Baltimore. And I know there are others as well. If you're still using Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or something similar after this discussion...you're playing yourself.

Famb I intentionally didn't expand on the banking part because I felt it was the least important part of what I posted. But I guess I have to expand.

You mean well, but you seem to have a couple blind spots. You're main concern when using a bank might be return on investment, for black people we also have to consider discrimination. Using a black owned black, and having black own banks, are appealing because they may be able to act as a firewall against that discrimination. If all a banks customers are black, what incentive do they have to discriminate against me? Little to none

I called it impractical because most black banks are community banks withe one or two branches. Yes it does built for a handfull of the share holders, and it helps support the fair lending I talked about earlier, but with any community bank their are restrictions. ATM access, sending money to family, variety in services, etc.

Also for poor black (and whites), thy get preyed on my short term lenders. These folk probably need the most protection, and it would be a large task for enough black banks to expand to meet that need, also that involves taking on a large amount of risk. This is something the Federal Government would be much better at addressing.

I actually think Post Offices should double as banks. They have the built in infrastructure to reach poor people, they can provide basic banking services like low interest short term lending, cheap check cashing, low fee services and basic savings accounts. So without shareholders, services would be provides near cost.

So yes I hope black owned banks (actually would prefer credit union) expand nationally and prove to be a safe haven against discriminatory leading practices for black people, but solve everything, their needs to be other systems in place, nothing on its own is a panacea.

 

[hennessy]

My blind spots I had addressed in my post right before yours. Discrimination was one of my largest considerations.

Post office...cool. Just another idea that will never happen though, at least not any time soon. Keep waiting man Keep talking these sweet what-ifs. Waste of time. World isn't like that. Sorry. I know economists deal largely in "in theory" but we are talking reality here man. If you believe what you are preaching ITT then there's no reason for you to not use a black bank. The advantages may be small and it may be inconvenient to switch banks, but the results can be compounding for the community. After today, if you don't look into switching banks, then you're just another keyboard warrior who types a lot of words but doesn't practice what they preach in real life. I know you don't want to be that guy. There are banks in MD, I just gave you one. Let's see if you'll be about this life or not. I'm not asking you for a deposit slip or anything. Just do what you know is right and put other people on. Not trying to come at you either it just seems like you dismissed using a black bank as a novelty while only talking about hypotheticals yourself. These banks are real and operating right now today. You can invest in them right now today. It is more practical than symbolic though you think otherwise. I hope I may have changed your mind about that.

You have to decide if having "ATM access, sending money to family, variety in services, etc." is more important to you than supporting black banks who support the black community. Obviously it's not a convenient switch. But don't make it seem like this isn't practical and more about symbolism. Because it's not, and that is an excuse.

 

[seasoned vet]

Don't tell me @ksteezy
 is a "boot strap" thinker 

whats more attainable?

your own bootstraps?

or expecting compensation from your oppressors when you have no leverage?

 

[RustyShackleford]

My blind spots I had addressed in my post right before yours. Discrimination was one of my largest considerations.

Post office...cool. Just another idea that will never happen though, at least not any time soon. Keep waiting man Keep talking these sweet what-ifs. Waste of time. World isn't like that. Sorry. I know economists deal largely in "in theory" but we are talking reality here man. If you believe what you are preaching ITT then there's no reason for you to not use a black bank. The advantages may be small and it may be inconvenient to switch banks, but the results can be compounding for the community. After today, if you don't look into switching banks, then you're just another keyboard warrior who types a lot of words but doesn't practice what they preach in real life. I know you don't want to be that guy. There are banks in MD, I just gave you one. Let's see if you'll be about this life or not. I'm not asking you for a deposit slip or anything. Just do what you know is right and put other people on. Not trying to come at you either it just seems like you dismissed using a black bank as a novelty while only talking about hypotheticals yourself. These banks are real and operating right now today. You can invest in them right now today. It is more practical than symbolic though you think otherwise. I hope I may have changed your mind about that.

You have to decide if having "ATM access, sending money to family, variety in services, etc." is more important to you than supporting black banks who support the black community. Obviously it's not a convenient switch. But don't make it seem like this isn't practical and more about symbolism. Because it's not, and that is an excuse.

-First off, I don't live in Maryland anymore, I live in Nevada. I have said so multiple times on NT. So you can stop assuming you know that about me.

Most of my money is invested in business in my home island, and it in the National Bank of St. Lucia. So technically it is black owned. But if you would like to educate me on the best way to support my sister and grandmother on the island, and get money to them. I am all ears

But if you can find a black owned bank for me to put the $5000 emergency fund I have, and deposit my checks into in Vegas I then fine. But I couldn't careless about that purity test. **** the money I give charity, **** my volunteer work, **** my mentoring, if I don't use a black bank I fial the purity test and I am just keyboard warrior. Whatever man

-One I responded to what you typed towards me. If that is that you meant, then you should have said so from the jump when you made your extensive post. I didn't not see your post above mind when I was typing my answer.

-And it seems like this back and froth was worthless, because now you turn to strawman arguments. I did not dismiss using black banks, matter of fact I did just the opposite. I said they have short comings to them, and more needs to be done. And I discussed what other public policy recommendations could be taken.

Because going back to by first, second, and third post. I believe in fighting different battles at the same time. Not just throwing up my hands like I should fight to change the world around me. Discussing public policy is not talking about economic theory. Talking about the Phillips Curve or the ISLM model is talking about theory. I am talking about tangible public policy.

So please, with all due respect, all you seems like you want to do is purity test me and recommending ways I must best deal with the system of white supremacy, or else I am a hypocrite.

If you're in the mood on lecturing black people on how they need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps, sorry but I'm not interested.

 

[hennessy]

That's fine I'm not trying to argue with you just further the discussion in here. If I have offended anyone in here I will stop. I'm only lecturing because it seems people are complaining more than taking action, and I incorrectly assumed you were in the position to take said action. My apologies.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

First, institutionalized racism and neoliberalism so hand in hand. The era of shared posterity (which the upper and middle classes) ended when the white middle class was told they finally had to share with the black people. Conservative and Southern whites were big supporters of quality public education, and infrastructure spending when they thought those services were strictly for them. Many put their racial anxiety ahead of their economic well being, and put policy makers in place that have ravaged them.

So while it is true that poor black and poor white are in the same class fight together, only one group routinely acts against their own self interest. When it comes to class unity, it is not black folk that need the lecture.

Regarding Hand2Hand, I have disagreed with some stuff he has posted on NT, but I have to push back on the notion that people like him don't help. They do

Not just because they keeps the issue at the forefront, but because as Malcolm X preached towards the end of his life, people that seem unpleasant or violent in the movement only get a voice when the more moderate black people get ignored. If MLK got everything done easily, there would be no need for the Panthers, if Barrak Obama or Bryan Stevneson would get their way on things, then dudes with stronger rhetoric would not have an audience of pissed, off fed up, black folk to preach too.

If we truly reform the police, then black people won't riot after a killing. If we truly work work day in day out to tear down the system of white supremacy, then people like Hand2Hand might not feel the need to seek vengeance.

But if you tell folk to deal play the ****** hand they were dealt best they can, and have a good attitude about it, be sure than not everyone will be enthusiastic about that prospect. Not matter how well intended you might have been with your advice.

Shout out Brother Malcolm, as always.

 

[frshstunna]

If there is a payout, ya think NH would want a piece of the pie?

He doesn't need reparations he's doing great. His mother is going to pass down her generational wealth in the form of rent controlled apartment to him once she passes away. He's been afforded a jump start on those who he tells to "pick themselves up by da bootstraps" in the form of free food and rent provided by living with his mother and her government aide for his entire existence. He's doing so well, in fact, that he has been able to buy Porsche money worth of depreciating assets. A luxury many of us are not afforded. On top of that he's got a great job as a truck driver. The wages he pulls in 10 years...phew...you could put a jesus piece on layaway 10 years for the amount! AND...ANDDD!!! When his mom's gone, that spacious apartment will finally be all his.

So no, I don't think he'll want a piece of the pie. Dude is doing it already and doesn't need any reparations. He's the hood dream. A perfect example of glass-ceiling minority content with being opressed.

that man been lost, he doesnt make any sense ....guarantee if they tried to cut him a check he aint saying "no, im not black tho"

 

[360waves]

Lets say a 1/4 black and 3/4 white or another race has ancestors that were slaves. Does he/she get 1/4 reparations? or full? This is a serious question.
How can you prove that some peoples ancestors were slaves? especially with all of the tampering of historical texts for example Europeans claiming to be native american to have rights to land.

I think reparations should be Land, free mental/ physical healthcare, free education. Above all man I would want to have the family unit fixed. Maybe some type of initiative to help rebuild the family unit and put jobs and opportunities in the "hoods" that were created.

 

[lamekilla]

I've posted many times about this but I personally feel like reparations should be education based. Giving all African- Americans free education and doing away with all student loan debt. It will be a slow process but it'll be a HUGE investment in the future. Some type of reform program for black prisoners as well to be placed in some type of institution to pick up a skill or trade as well. I'll say we'd approach an even playing field education wise as well as see a big difference in terms of the socioeconomic gap in wealth between blacks and whites in this country. Land and/or a nice check would do a lot to jumpstart the community as well but would play right back into the system's hand without proper education and financial literacy.

 

[ninjahood]

If there is a payout, ya think NH would want a piece of the pie?

He doesn't need reparations he's doing great. His mother is going to pass down her generational wealth in the form of rent controlled apartment to him once she passes away. He's been afforded a jump start on those who he tells to "pick themselves up by da bootstraps" in the form of free food and rent provided by living with his mother and her government aide for his entire existence. He's doing so well, in fact, that he has been able to buy Porsche money worth of depreciating assets. A luxury many of us are not afforded. On top of that he's got a great job as a truck driver. The wages he pulls in 10 years...phew...you could put a jesus piece on layaway 10 years for the amount! AND...ANDDD!!! When his mom's gone, that spacious apartment will finally be all his.

So no, I don't think he'll want a piece of the pie. Dude is doing it already and doesn't need any reparations. He's the hood dream. A perfect example of glass-ceiling minority content with being opressed.

that man been lost, he doesnt make any sense ....guarantee if they tried to cut him a check he aint saying "no, im not black tho"

wanna bet? My mom emigrated from DR over here....I don't need any part of "reparations".

and only a fool would take it...ya basically letting "da oppressors" buy their way out of guilt...a one time fee, then what? when da vast majority of people would spend it like a income tax refund holiday..

once it's gone, folks gonna wash their hands of w/e contemporary situations are going on and say "welp...we compensated for da past, ya own ya own now.

another point no one brings up is advocating government "robbing_______ to pay Paul"...no one here is pointing at "Peter" to get da cash from...you think u gonna get a certain pale constituency to pay out they own money, when they feel completely absolved from anything that happened before they was born? yeah....good luck on that.

 

[hand2handking]

did anyone read the study at the bottom of the op? 

 

[RustyShackleford]

The man whose economic situation is propped up by government mandated wealth redistribution, wants to lecture people about self sufficiency and the evils of wealth redistribution.

Sorry, but no one is gonna take you seriously Ninja. Practice a little empathy. Government intervention in someone's favor can make a world of difference.

 

[RustyShackleford]

did anyone read the study at the bottom of the op? 

Part of it. My friend sent it to me a few days ago after r/economics talked about it.

 

[ninjahood]

The man whose economic situation is propped up by government mandated wealth redistribution,
Sorry, but no one is gonna take you seriously Ninja. Practice a little empathy. Government intervention in someone's favor can make a world of difference.

go ahead and point to da office where others can get this government mandated wealth distribution u talking bout. [emoji]128064[/emoji]

fact of da matter is reparations is paying Paul off...who gonna be da Peter u robbing to pay for it?

 

[hand2handking]

education is important but what do we do when a white non high school graduate on avg makes 70k+ more than a black/latino high school grad/some college?

 

[RustyShackleford]

The man whose economic situation is propped up by government mandated wealth redistribution,
Sorry, but no one is gonna take you seriously Ninja. Practice a little empathy. Government intervention in someone's favor can make a world of difference.

go ahead and point to da office where others can get this government mandated wealth distribution u talking bout. [emoji]128064[/emoji]

fact of da matter is reparations is paying Paul off...who gonna be da Peter u robbing to pay for it?

The free market is not the one keeping you rent cheap, neither is your hard work. Don't delude yourself

And because you're grandfather in that doesn't change the facts of the situation.

The American capitialist system you claim to worship was built of robbing black people through slavery, Jim Crow, Mass Incarceration, and other forms of plunder. So please, don't lecture me about fairness

BTW, as a first generation West Indian immigrant I would be more than happy to pay more in taxes for programs that only benefit African Americans. In others words, I'm happy being Peter in your silly talking point. But more directly, there is tons of ways the tax code can be altered, to fund permanent programs. It doesn't need to be cash in hand.

America would have never had to discuss such a subject in this day and age if they had done Reconstruction correctly.

 

[ninjahood]

news flash rusty, no one is gonna pay for this "reparations", especially people who were born or Immigrated after da fact.

and im still waiting on da address for that office others can take advantage of this government mandated wealth distribution

 

[RustyShackleford]

news flash rusty, no one is gonna pay for this "reparations", especially people who were born or Immigrated after da fact.

and im still waiting on da address for that office others can take advantage of this government mandated wealth distribution

-Congrats, new people can't get your form of government assistance. Feel special, I know that is important to you. But like I said before, there is not shame in receiving it, but practice empathy for the next man.

-And I couldn't care less what people feel like doing, I am not talking about if it will get done, I am talking about it it should get gone. There are tons of **** my tax dollars pay for that I am not happy about. Even immigrants to this country have benefited from the work of African Americans, hell some won't not even be in this country without it. People from our island included.

 

[Belgium]

news flash rusty, no one is gonna pay for this "reparations", especially people who were born or Immigrated after da fact.

and im still waiting on da address for that office others can take advantage of this government mandated wealth distribution

Why is it that you're so ashamed of government assistance? There's nothing to be ashamed of. You may be grandfathered into the old system but that system is government assistance whether you want to admit that or not. You'd think somebody called you black the way you're responding to posts pointing out your government assistant housing. Again, there's nothing wrong with government assistance so why defend so harshly against calling it what it is?

 

[Belgium]

 
did anyone read the study at the bottom of the op? 

Will do, it's 21 pages so I'll read it in full tomorrow

 

[ninjahood]

news flash rusty, no one is gonna pay for this "reparations", especially people who were born or Immigrated after da fact.


and im still waiting on da address for that office others can take advantage of this government mandated wealth distribution

Why is it that you're so ashamed of government assistance? There's nothing to be ashamed of. You may be grandfathered into the old system but that system is government assistance whether you want to admit that or not.

umm da landlord keeping more of their money which allows their overhead to stay a certain level which keeps my rate da same isn't da government cutting someone section 8 voucher check.

it's literally apples to watermelons let alone oranges.

there's no "means testing" I could make 6 figures after taxes and still keep my spot.

try that on section 8 housing.

now as far as reparations, no one here is talking funding mechanisms....

And I couldn't care less what people feel like doing, I am not talking about if it will get done, I am talking about it it should get gone

oh so we basically wishing on unicorns?....

got it.

da best suggestion here that's tethered in somewhat reality is a educational based give back...but isn't that what public school already is?

 

[ksteezy]

that man been lost, he doesnt make any sense ....guarantee if they tried to cut him a check he aint saying "no, im not black tho"

"For dat green, I'll be a rainbow b"

 

[Mark Antony]

that man been lost, he doesnt make any sense ....guarantee if they tried to cut him a check he aint saying "no, im not black tho"

"For dat green, I'll be a rainbow b"

That code for pretending to be gay for money?

 

[ksteezy]

Why is it that you're so ashamed of government assistance? There's nothing to be ashamed of. You may be grandfathered into the old system but that system is government assistance whether you want to admit that or not. You'd think somebody called you black the way you're responding to posts pointing out your government assistant housing. Again, there's nothing wrong with government assistance so why defend so harshly against calling it what it is?

Rent control is no different than section 8, food stamps, Medicaid or any other form of government assistance there is, I'm not really sure why he feels he's above it all...bottom line is this program was put in place so that n older generation wouldn't be priced out of their homes, OLDER GENERATION! Not some abled body 30 year old man, just waiting on his momma to migrate back home so he can take over....a man that can very much afford better....nobody would clown you bro, if you didn't parade around like you on some weird imaginary social pedestal...FACT IS YOU LIVE OFF A HANDOUT YOU DDINT EARN IT OR EVER WORKED FOR IT.