Kevin Samuels Dead at 56

[Magic33]

Exactly! Him passing isn't going to make men suddenly go back to the way things were. Once the dust settles these women who were triggered still wont be able to find what they desire. The Big shirley's of the world are still gonna be single and delusional.

It's people who think Nike's problem with StockX is going to change reselling.

He was just vocal and said what a lot of men think, and they weren't used to that coming from a man and were getting a dose of their own medicine.

Women say all the time, I want a man who's 6 feet tall, making six figures, hairline, no kids...blah blah. And find absolutely nothing wrong with their list or what it says to men who aren't those things.

 

[RustyShackleford]

ok course, like I've said KS would tilt into misogyny.

but I think like many reactionaries, I think he was hitting on something real.
or at least something that many men believe.

i don't approve of the scapegoating
i would put that firmly in the misogynistic stuff from KS

that a responsible listener should take with a dump truck of salt.
unfortunately many listeners are not responsible.

I would agree with this

Even if what you said wasn't true about the mean or median black American woman, all you really need is a group of dudes that have had bad experiences and once they hear that talk they will relate to it in some way and then be open to everything you have to say.

 

[RustyShackleford]

No champ the point went over your head which is why you reached for the stars with that Medgar Evers example. The FACT remains that the black marriage rate was higher THEN than what it is NOW. Black women NOW are the ones filing for divorce, not black men. I have statistical data to back up my points……..all you have is empty rhetoric.

You can't even interrupt the statistical data properly champ

You are just pointing to correlation, and claiming it is causation, even though the evidence you provide undermines the claims of causation.

But sure, do your usual and claim people just can't accept the truth you are spitting when you get the slightest of pushback

 

[deuce king]

You can't even interrupt the statistical data properly champ

You are just pointing to correlation, and claiming it is causation, even though the evidence you provide undermines the claims of causation.

But sure, do your usual and claim people just can't accept the truth you are spitting when you get the slightest of pushback

Was the black marriage rate higher THEN….or NOW?? Waiting on you champ.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The criticism of feminism that KS I think is more correct about.

Is a dynamic of "luxury beliefs" that I think is evident in a lot of third wave feminism.

you hear lots of talk from white professors about marriage and nuclear family structures
being a locus of female oppression ect ect...while they were married themselves.

and while that critique has some some obvious merit.
it seems to me there is a lot of "do as a say, not as a do" going on.

i think there's plenty of data to support that kids born in married two parent households do better.

the higher the income level marrige rates trend to rise if im not mistaken


so imo I think KS might be right that restoring the taboo against having children outside of wedlock,
might be a net positive for black americans.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Was the black marriage rate higher THEN….or NOW?? Waiting on you champ.

Yes

I never denied that. I said blaming feminism was wrong. This is what I took issue with...

To the first part I think Kevin is right. Feminism did what slavery and Jim Crow couldn’t do……which is to break up the black family thus breaking up the black community. This “strong independent women” nonsense is only said by black women……you don’t hear other races of women saying that garbage.

Kevin also said that women of other races respect their men even if they are average. As he said…..”the Hispanic male that sells fruit off the highway gets respect from their women……why can’t average black men get the same”. To that point Kevin is right again. Average brothas get overlooked all the time and don’t nearly get the same level of cooperation that another man of another race would by their women.

We already know how women…..particularly black women were incentivized to “remove” their black man from the home in order to receive government benefits.

Regarding the second point I don’t or didn’t see his analysis for “average joes” as you saw it. What I got was he saw how average black women were less agreeable and respectable to their average black men in return……for various reasons.

Also……when it comes to divorce it’s black women that file for divorce and continuously leave black men…..continuing to destroy the black family and break us apart.

Look at what you are doing, you can't defend the claim you made about feminism so you are moving the goalpost to simply the marriage rates.

But the discussion wasn't about that, it was about what caused that change

You want to claim you are right without acknowledging challenges to your arguemnt. Even when you provided evidence that undermined your claim

But do you champ

 

[deuce king]

Yes

I never denied that. I said blaming feminism was wrong



Look at what you are doing, you can't defend the claim you made about feminism so you are moving the goalpost to simply the marriage rates.

But the discussion wasn't about that, it was about what caused that change

You want to claim you are right without acknowledging challenges to your arguemnt. Even when you provided evidence that undermined your claim

But do you champ

Thank you for acknowledging my first part. To the second part regarding feminism……when did the black marriage rate start to decline (timeframe wise) and who between the two files for divorce more often…….men or women in the black community??

 

[aepps20]

He used to give the girl he cheated with rides home.

Wife found a receipt in their car, and saw he had bought condoms at the store he worked at (along with gummies bears, cocoa butter and lint roller )

He tried to deny it like the cashier must have made a mistake

His wife said "ok dispute it with the credit card company", but mans knew he was on tape at the store buying them. He didn't want to get fired for lying about a chargeback

He finally admitted he was blowing the sidepeice's back out in their Honda Odyssey.

At best he's low value and at worst he's a lib. YUCK.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Thank you for acknowledging my first part. To the second part regarding feminism……when did the black marriage rate start to decline (timeframe wise) and who between the two files for divorce more often…….men or women in the black community??

1960 with it picking up around 1970, around the same time other big socioeconomic factors started to affect black people.

Women, this is true among the entire population though. It is not unique to black women

Again, you are just making a correlation, not a causation argument.

Another thing driving the numbers is not just divorce rates (which again have been increasing generally) but a lot of black women are NEVER getting married.

I'm saying the discussion is much more complex and nuanced than you want to admit. The war on drugs and mass incarceration, less folk going to church, educational attainment (which is tied to economic prospects) and more anti-discrimination

The type of feminism you describe was not prevalent back when the trend started. That is a major hole in your argument you seem unwilling to plug. Just cherry-picking as it fits your argument

 

[aepps20]

Time to strap in boys....we're going there today.

LFGGGGGGGG

 

[RustyShackleford]

.

 

[aepps20]

I haven't been more proud to be a HIGH VALUE CONSERVATIVE MANNNNNNNN than I am right now. Liberal conjecture and innuendo have done more to da Black family than Obummer's Presidency. I will say it with as much BASS as I can. President Trump was da first BLACK President. We all BLACK IN DA MINES.

 

[deuce king]

1960 with it picking up around 1970, around the same time other big socioeconomic factors started to affect black people.

Women, this is true among the entire population though. It is not unique to black women

Again, you are just making a correlation, not a causation argument.

Another thing driving the numbers is not just divorce rates (which again have been increasing generally) but a lot of black women are NEVER getting married.

I'm saying the discussion is much more complex and nuanced than you want to admit. The war on drugs and mass incarceration, less folk going to church, educational attainment (which is tied to economic prospects) and more anti-discrimination

The type of feminism you describe was not prevalent back when the trend started. That is a major hole in your argument you seem unwilling to plug. Just cherry-picking as it fits your argument

I’m not cherry-picking or trying to cherry-pick. The evidence, and your testimony is good enough as is. Modern day feminism began in the 1960’s……shortly thereafter the marriage rate among black couples declined.

A lot of black women are NEVER getting married as you highlighted because there expectation are out of line. As pointed out by Kevin’s show the vast majority of women that called in want a high value man and simply overlooked a basic average man. The same 1 man is wanted by 6-10 different women. The women of before of years past would marry an average man and build together….where as women today want a high value man even though they might not qualify for one.

You can say what you want to but the bottom line is our marriage rate is going down……and there’s a reason for that.

 

[executive76]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I’m not cherry-picking or trying to cherry-pick. The evidence, and your testimony is good enough as is. Modern day feminism began in the 1960’s……shortly thereafter the marriage rate among black couples declined.

A lot of black women are NEVER getting married as you highlighted because there expectation are out of line. As pointed out by Kevin’s show the vast majority of women that called in want a high value man and simply overlooked a basic average man. The same 1 man is wanted by 6-10 different women. The women of before of years past would marry an average man and build together….where as women today want a high value man even though they might not qualify for one.

You can say what you want to but the bottom line is our marriage rate is going down……and there’s a reason for that.

-Dude, there have been waves of feminism, which have deferred in the ideology/rhetoric/goals

The modern strain of feminism people like Samuels complain about regarding black women is thought to be a product of third-wave feminism, which began around 1990. Second-wave feminism movement born in the late 50s to 60s was more of a civil rights movement. They were more concerned with things like Title 9 and reproductive rights.

For you to even say this undercuts a major talking point of Samuels. He constantly tells women that their grandmothers didn't act like them and were better partners to black men. 20-30s-year-olds grandmothers. 1960 was 62 years ago. So the time period you claimed feminism was leading women astray, Samuels said they had their act together.

-All you are doing is seeing correlation and demanding people see it as causation. Ignoring anything that undercuts your argument or adds any nuance to the discussion beyond blaming black women.

I think there are fair criticism to make of modern (actually modern) strains of feminism, but I don't think you come close to them.

It is like pointing out that ice cream sales and murders spike at the same time of year.

So of course the people should realize that Ben and Jerry are outchea doing drills.

Why are we going after YSL, but Haagen-Dazs still allowed to be in these streets?

 

[P C H]

Any time you're trying to "give advice" on something as individual specific as relationships, marriage, etc. you're going to run into pushback. There was a ton about KS that I did not agree with, but he was a 'fun personality' online who was funny, and stirred the pot a bit in a way that was kind of necessary to me.

There's just soooo many women today who want certain qualities in a man that they themselves don't come close to providing so it was fun to see a personality like KS get big off of shedding light on that.

 

[aepps20]

-Dude, there have been waves of feminism, which have deferred in the ideology/rhetoric/goals

The modern strain of feminism people like Samuels complain about regarding black women is thought to be a product of third-wave feminism, which began around 1990. Second-wave feminism movement born in the late 50s to 60s was more of a civil rights movement. They were more concerned with things like Title 9 and reproductive rights.

For you to even say this undercuts a major talking point of Samuels. He constantly tells women that their grandmothers didn't act like them and were better partners to black men. 20-30s-year-olds grandmothers. 1960 was 62 years ago. So the time period you claimed feminism was leading women astray, Samuels said they had their act together.

-Seeing correlation and demanding people see it as causation. Ignoring anything that undercuts your argument or adds any nuance to the discussion beyond blaming black women.

I think there are fair criticism to make of modern (actually modern) strains of feminism, but I don't think you come close to them.

It is like pointing out that ice cream sales and murders spike at the same time of year.

So of course the people should realize that Ben and Jerry are outchea doing drills.

Why are we going after YSL, but not Haagen-Dazs still allowed to be in these streets?

Now we're on to something. I would like more discussion and analysis.

 

[tokes99]

I’m not cherry-picking or trying to cherry-pick. The evidence, and your testimony is good enough as is. Modern day feminism began in the 1960’s……shortly thereafter the marriage rate among black couples declined.

A lot of black women are NEVER getting married as you highlighted because there expectation are out of line. As pointed out by Kevin’s show the vast majority of women that called in want a high value man and simply overlooked a basic average man. The same 1 man is wanted by 6-10 different women. The women of before of years past would marry an average man and build together….where as women today want a high value man even though they might not qualify for one.

You can say what you want to but the bottom line is our marriage rate is going down……and there’s a reason for that.

honestly the reality is that black folk generally, & black women specifically, are the least married…the way we arrived here isn’t irrelevant but ultimately folk just need to get their expectations in line with their actual (likely) prospects…which, however entertaining (and make no mistake he wouldn’t have garnered the attention he did were he not able to package things into a somewhat cohesive watchable experience), really should be the takeaway from samuels content…everything else is kinda just filler, tho i’m not sure i’d classify it as misogynistic/misogyny

 

[deuce king]

honestly the reality is that black folk generally, & black women specifically, are the least married…the way we arrived here isn’t irrelevant but ultimately folk need to get their expectations in line with their actual (likely) prospects…which, however entertaining (and make no mistake he wouldn’t have garnered the attention he did were he not able to package things into a somewhat cohesive watchable experience), really should be the takeaway from samuels content…everything else is kinda just filler, tho i’m not sure i’d classify it as misogynistic/misogyny

I hear ya…..but look at the percentage for black marriage then to where we are now……and ask yourself how did we get here and where (timeframe wise) did things start to change. It didn’t use to be like this. To me you that’s why Kevin Samuels and his message was so needed for us.

 

[tokes99]

I hear ya…..but look at the percentage for black marriage then to where we are now……and ask yourself how did we get here and where (timeframe wise) did things start to change. It didn’t use to be like this. To me you that’s why Kevin Samuels and his message was so needed for us.

why tho? what bearing does it really have to any individual today going through life?? things/time change, while understanding the machinations how current circumstances came to be may provide some clarity & perhaps guidance, we really are dealing with things relative to what is going on now…if you want to believe that feminism alone was the single most impactful thing in regards to intersexual dynamics in the black community, fine…what now? good luck putting that genie back in bottle, or if you want to be more nuanced about the multi varied factors societally, the question still is the same, what now?

while i’d still argue that men have it tougher, at least the path is somewhat straightforward; become someone of value, it isn’t easy of course (and arguably a lil’ tougher for the ‘average man’ to make a convincing argument in the current economy, hence the lower marriage rate and higher divorce rate amongst the common folk), but everything kinda falls in place if you are on that path. women today, on the other hand have more, seemingly conflicting, paths, further it isn’t as clear what women should do and apparently unbeknownst to large swathes of women, their choices will have consequences for their future; unfortunately for women they have less time to figure out those things than men, something samuels sort of exemplified himself

 

[IATT]

marriage, like kids, ain’t for everyone

marriage itself shouldn’t be any standard, because unless you know the people involved, that sh could be a whole lot of negative of one or both of those people

most folks are well aware of the shh within their own families

or take will and jada, I’m sure there is significant overlap between this thread and thoughts that were given on their marriage in various threads

 

[tokes99]

marriage, like kids, ain’t for everyone

marriage itself shouldn’t be any standard, because unless you know the people involved, that sh could be a whole lot of negative of one or both of those people

most folks are well aware of the shh within their own families

or take will and jada, I’m sure there is significant overlap between this thread and those where thoughts were given on their marriage

marriage (rates) may well be a suboptimal metric, but it is maybe one of the better ones that positively correlate with better outcomes societally overall?

 

[rrlegend]

Marriage is a business more or less and a lot of people aren’t business savvy as they think . I’m going on 36 I don’t see myself getting married like I did when I was younger . And that’s a shame because my parents been married for 38 years .

 

[IATT]

marriage (rates) may well be a suboptimal metric, but it is maybe one of the better ones that positively correlate with better outcomes societally overall?

why would I judge a society by marriage rates?

you don’t need to be married and/or have a huge wedding to demonstrate your love for a person

if that is something you and the person(s) you love want, then great for you

but there are too many societal pressures outside of relationships pushing people towards something they themselves may not want and don’t figure that out until it’s too late

I live in a small country so it’s not hard to know how many supposedly happily married couples got shh going on to some degree outside of their house.. could be outside kids.. could be the child is for another dude.. could be one or both people are on the DL.. could be the dude got a whole other family

im glad that people are able to access more information these days and make choices beyond what is presented to them by their immediate families and couple settle outside people like their pastor or people in their church or something

do what makes you happy, you shouldn’t feel like you gotta get married or have kids.. And if you do, great for you

my actual concerns are the cost of living and the state of the world in 20-30 years and beyond.. cause even if I’m straight, don’t mean a damn thing if a lot people are f’d and become desperate

 

[deusavertat]

When in doubt blame women for your shortcomings.