Kevin Samuels Dead at 56

[finessence]

F*** this clown. Extramarital affair…. Check! Impregnated a minor…check!!

 

[WASHED KING]

Y’all start that whole alpha, beta thing imma be in here laughing too hard to post anything of actual relevance

 

[RustyShackleford]

Y’all start that whole alpha, beta thing imma be in here laughing too hard to post anything of actual relevance

I can't put into words how much I laughed when I found out the research the alpha male thing was built on turned out to be nonsense, to the point the author of the original research asked his publisher to stop printing it.

I used to eat that **** up when I was in my early 20s.

Male wolves in the wild are more like regular family men.

As I said Samuels's basic dating advice is solid. And it goes for men too.

There are a lot of good women out there, I get dudes have had bad experiences but if you can't pull a solid woman, some of the blame falls on you.

 

[Mark Antony]

Be the best version of yourself and find the best available to you is as solid as it gets.

 

[executive76]

,

 

[tokes99]

Mind you, these are the same chicks whose bff is the most flaming gay dude out there. The type of chicks to cheer on a gay dude twerking or exhibiting behavior designated for women. All while dating a dude that stays home all day playing video games, no job, leaves their car on E, and steals money out of their purse.

that is a wild generalization, while those situations definitely occur it’s not nearly the majority…and i’d argue even in those circumstances those women (and probably the men too) feel a way about that being their reality.

Most women want a man that they can control. A large portion prefers that beta male who will be at their every beckon call.

If she’s paying your phone bill, buying your food/clothes and taking care of you. She’ll deal with that.

Most women fear an alpha male…

Look at how they got up in arms about the TONE of Kevin Samuels. Majority of them want a man who will beg and plead them. If they feel as though they can’t control you with sex or if your too dominant, they fear that.

Most women prefer a beta male. Trust me. They want a man who’s just as emotional as them.

Not I!!

i’d disagree with such an assertion as most women want a man they can control, but i do think women generally tend to encourage/want the man in their life to ‘soften up,’ which is to say they are kinda always testing their dude on a mostly subconscious level, it just kinda in their nature, whether that dude is ‘alpha’ or ‘beta’…women, especially these days, are likely to say anything any man does to be in control (outside of the sexual, and even in that arena for some women ) is too controlling; but i don’t think it is the case that that’s what most women want

the problem women have is that they generally don’t do the pursuing and as such are subject to who pursues them, especially for relationship, which is most women want on some level…and to the extent they really even aware of the type of dude they would want, most don’t know how to put themselves in proximity to or be available to that kinda guy outside of maybe dating apps, which comes with its own issues

i don’t think it is the case that most women want to control their guy, but due to the confluence of a bunch of things (the decline of the image of men generally, the rise of women’s choice, the shifting to online interactions, to name a few) women definitely are more empowered to ask for & expect more, whether or not they can actually get more…there is a saying that goes “women get in to relationships hoping the guy will change and men hoping things stay the same.”

 

[WASHED KING]

I can't put into words how much I laughed when I found out the research the alpha male thing was built on turned out to be nonsense, to the point the author of the original research asked his publisher to stop printing it.

I used to eat that **** up when I was in my early 20s.

Male wolves in the wild are more like regular family men.

As I said Samuels's basic dating advice is solid. And it goes for men too.

There are a lot of good women out there, I get dudes have had bad experiences but if you can't pull a solid woman, some of the blame falls on you.

There is extreme factions of everything for men and women. I actually don't think Kevin was nearly as pro-man as many of his contractors made him out to be.

To me his advice sounded like "Look at you, look at the person/people you're interested in does it fit? If not you need to do either A. Change something so you do fit or B. Adjust your target to something that will accept you how you are.

I still think the main reason he got all the backlash he did was because he told women the polar opposite of what the main popular consensus has been the past 10 or so odd years which is "All women are beautiful, all bodies are beautiful etc etc"

Now I'm not saying you can't believe those things or feel that way but believing that all men and the ones you deem to be most desirable will also think that is ignorant.

 

[sharpshooter718]

not the same thing at all. The people that died from Covid basically refused treatment. they deserved whatever came at them. Should have compared him to xxxtentacion after his death if you wanted to drive a point.

They deserved whatever came at them??? Who are you people??? This is why I stay to myself, cause people like you get smacked up for less... No empathy in today's society... **** is crazy...

 

[RustyShackleford]

There is extreme factions of everything for men and women. I actually don't think Kevin was nearly as pro-man as many of his contractors made him out to be.

To me his advice sounded like "Look at you, look at the person/people you're interested in does it fit? If not you need to do either A. Change something so you do fit or B. Adjust your target to something that will accept you how you are.

I still think the main reason he got all the backlash he did was because he told women the polar opposite of what the main popular consensus has been the past 10 or so odd years which is "All women are beautiful, all bodies are beautiful etc etc"

Now I'm not saying you can't believe those things or feel that way but believing that all men and the ones you deem to be most desirable will also think that is ignorant.

I think his basic advice was basic and solid. People have to be realistic about their dating prospects. Working on things within your control is the best way to improve those prospects

But I can't ignore all the extra nonsense he peddled too along with that message

I think a lot of dudes were there to see him **** on women. His stuff was really popular with Reddit Redpill dudes. I don't think folk by themselves took Kevin too seriously, I think Kevin himself actively courted a certain viewer.

I can acknowledge the solid advice, but I can't ignore the ****ery as well. He did pushback on some bad views but often peddled bad ones himself in the process.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

He did pushback on some bad views but often peddled bad ones himself in the process.

Which ones in particular ?

(I come in peace)

 

[sooperhooper]

Y’all start that whole alpha, beta thing imma be in here laughing too hard to post anything of actual relevance

I HATE when people start throwing that stuff around. Somebody described it as being a male Karen and nothing has ever been more accurate. Inconsiderate, irritable, self-centered toddler behavior that acts out when they don't get their way. Perfect description.

 

[wavycrocket]

Where do y'all be finding these relationships.

EYE don't see them in real life. Y'all gotta stop watching Babyboy reruns.

Turn on social media. People aren't ashamed or shy to expose their real lives.

And that here lies the problem. WASHED KING astutely points out how the eggaerated relationships seeming common place aren’t seen by him in his real life experiences..….and the response is “turn on social media”

This thread is pure proof that Ppl are in fact addicted to the outrage feedback loop.

All that game from Kevin Samuels….and his final words about ending the gender and culture wars have fallen on death ears.

Hasn’t even been a month, and the focus is still on the caricature of black women who “celebrated” his death on social media.

Society is something.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Which ones in particular ?

(I come in peace)

-The problems in the black community can be mainly traced back to the unique moral failings and lack of loyalty of black women

He repeats a lot of conservative talking points that were popular with white men against black women in the 80s and 90s

You know I read a lot of politics, economics, and my girl was a social worker in Vegas. The stuff he was saying was off base

The macro trends we see black people, black women, are responses to conditions they face in our socio-economic system. Not a unique character deficit by black women.

Kevin is appealing to a certain audience just like how Umar is, just like a preacher is, just like these man-hating influencers.

They identify a real problem correctly, can articulate an explanation for that problem, and suggest solutions. One the sounds appealing

But with deeper inspection, I feel a lot of his analysis falls short. And he presents caricatures of black women, which clearly do exist, but not as the median.

-Second, he is kinda sloppy with his rhetoric. He says he is making his analysis based on so-called high-value men and women that pursue them. But he oftentimes applies these analyses to regular joe middle-class people. So the average joe might think "yes, a woman should submit to me, cook for me, keep my house clean, and not pushback on decisions I make".

But in a 21st-century economy, two incomes are needed to support middle-class households and dudes should be ready to be in a powersharing agreement with their partner as a result.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I HATE when people start throwing that stuff around. Somebody described it as being a male Karen and nothing has ever been more accurate. Inconsiderate, irritable, self-centered toddler behavior that acts out when they don't get their way. Perfect description.

It's even funnier when it's applied to sports. ballinsam23

 

[sooperhooper]

It's even funnier when it's applied to sports. ballinsam23

I get the gist of it but people take it WAY too far imo. It basically boils down to narcissistic behavior. Adored by fans because they don't have to deal with the nonsense. abhorred by teammates and those close to them.

 

[tokes99]

-The problems in the black community can be mainly traced back to the unique moral failings and lack of loyalty of black women

He repeats a lot of conservative talking points that were popular with white men against black women in the 80s and 90s

You know I read a lot of politics, economics, and my girl was a social worker in Vegas. The stuff he was saying was off base

The macro trends we see black people, black women, are responses to conditions they face in our socio-economic system. Not a unique character deficit by black women.

Kevin is appealing to a certain audience just like how Umar is, just like a preacher is, just like these man-hating influencers.

They identify a real problem correctly, can articulate an explanation for that problem, and suggest solutions. One the sounds appealing

But with deeper inspection, I feel a lot of his analysis falls short. And he presents caricatures of black women, which clearly do exist, but not as the median.

-Second, he is kinda sloppy with his rhetoric. He says he is making his analysis based on so-called high-value men and women that pursue them. But he oftentimes applies these analyses to regular joe middle-class people. So the average joe might think "yes, a woman should submit to me, cook for me, keep my house clean, and not pushback on decisions I make".

But in a 21st-century economy, two incomes are needed to support middle-class households and dudes should be ready to be in a powersharing agreement with their partner as a result.

what part of what he presented of black women was an out of line critique, at least physically (& even aspirationally given the pervasiveness of boss bees, power couples), when statistically the average black women is considered overweight and much of the imagery & the most visible black women in popular culture are kinda caricatures themselves?

from my perspective, i think one of the issues women have is figuring out how that power sharing dynamic works in this modern context, because when women do talk about the men they’d ideally like it is usually a man that is at least on their level, ideally better, and if that man were to find her why would he necessarily need to concede to sharing power (by which i take to mean final say on important matters)…but that definitely seems to be women’s expectation

while men still make more on average, women are making more and are becoming more educated so it is definitely more probable that partners today would be much closer economically than in the past, which takes away some of the leverage men traditionally had & i think makes women especially, view relationships less of necessary or at the very least less immediate than in the past, given they have aspirations of their own beyond/other than a relationship/family/children

i could be wrong, but i don’t know that most men these days really have the expectation of a traditional woman, albeit the case that women still do end up doing more of the cooking/cleaning/child rearing, almost by default. men today are much more involved & less ‘controlling’ than their fathers (may not be a high bar to clear but it is appreciably better by the metrics) but i do think both men’s & women’s expectations today are not really aligned. much more, because generally men come to them, with the freedoms women enjoy today, they don’t really have to think about nor care about what men are or want, which might be best illustrated by some of the criticism of his content pertaining to what men want; who could disagree with femine, fit, friendly as the basics?

i’d agree that none of the general criticisms of the dating/mating marketplace are specific to black women, i do think it is more pronounced amongst black folks, as is the case with much in america unfortunately.

 

[RustyShackleford]

what part of what he presented of black women was an out of line critique, at least physically (& even aspirationally given the pervasiveness of boss bees, power couples), when statistically the average black women is considered overweight and much of the imagery & the most visible black women in popular culture are kinda caricatures themselves?

He doesn't just keep his critiques to the physical. He asserts black women are uniquely disloyal and disrespectful to black men. Compared to women other other races to men of their race

That women ingest bad dating and empowerment advice and just **** on black men needlessly.

Some women do that, but there is no evidence most or the median do. But that is an assumption Samuels wants people to accept

from my perspective, i think one of the issues women have is figuring out how that power sharing dynamic works in this modern context, because when women do talk about the men they’d ideally like it is usually a man that is at least on their level, ideally better, and if that man were to find her why would he necessarily need to concede to sharing power (by which i take to mean final say on important matters)…but that definitely seems to be women’s expectation

Ok couples have to figure out what works for them. Men and women.

My point was that Samuels's rhetoric is sloppy and that because of the sloppiness he applies analysis meant for certain men, to men generally. An average joe could come away from his show thinking that the proper way for a partner to behave toward him is cooking/cleaning/not challenging him. But in reality, that is unrealistic partly because someone contributing a decent chunk to household income is not gonna just go for that. Another way to put it, dudes identify with Samuels's description of a high-value man, and the power they should have in relationships when they are regular 9-5 working joes.

Nothing wrong with being a regular joe, like zero, put dudes think too much of Kevin's rhetoric is pertinent to them.

while men still make more on average, women are making more and are becoming more educated so it is definitely more probable that partners today would be much closer economically than in the past, which takes away some of the leverage men traditionally had & i think makes women especially, view relationships less of necessary or at the very least less immediate than in the past, given they have aspirations of their own beyond/other than a relationship/family/children

I agree

Times are changing. I don't think men toward the center of the income distribution can expect of engaging in the types of relations of 60 and 70 years ago.

Women have more agency over their economic futures now. The macroeconomy doesn't allow for many single income middle class households

i could be wrong, but i don’t know that most men these days really have the expectation of a traditional woman, albeit the case that women still do end up doing more of the cooking/cleaning/child rearing, almost by default. men today are much more involved & less ‘controlling’ than their fathers (may not be a high bar to clear but it is appreciably better by the metrics) but i do think both men’s & women’s expectations today are not really aligned. much more, because generally men come to them, with the freedoms women enjoy today, they don’t really have to think about nor care about what men are or want, which might be best illustrated by some of the criticism of his content pertaining to what men want; who could disagree with femine, fit, friendly as the basics?

i’d agree that none of the general criticisms of the dating/mating marketplace are specific to black women, i do think it is more pronounced amongst black folks, as is the case with much in america unfortunately.

I would agree that relationships today are different from the past. For a number of reasons

I point is that Samuels conflates different types of relationships to the point that some dudes can walk away from his show thinking that the major problem in relationships today is that women don't behave as their grandmothers did. There is no deeper conversation about the socioeconomic forces that changed things, or why it is more prevalent in black communities, Samuels gives a summary judgment that is just mainly the moral failing of black women. What is even funnier, Kevin points to a period in time when things were better, but similar criticism was made about black people during that period.

Samuels's commentary of what people are attracted to in the dating marketplace is generally right. I don't have an issue with fit, friendly, feminine-attracting men.

My thing is when he talks about why marriages break down and make macro takes about it I feel he is off base and sloppy. He knows marriage is not that simple, hell you can tell that when he is asked about his own marriage failing.

I just don't think his basic more basic dating advice can crowd out all the other stuff to the point Kevin's rhetoric is totally innocuous. Nah, he said some **** up **** IMO

 

[Mark Antony]

And that here lies the problem. WASHED KING astutely points out how the eggaerated relationships seeming common place aren’t seen by him in his real life experiences..….and the response is “turn on social media”

This thread is pure proof that Ppl are in fact addicted to the outrage feedback loop.

All that game from Kevin Samuels….and his final words about ending the gender and culture wars have fallen on death ears.

Hasn’t even been a month, and the focus is still on the caricature of black women who “celebrated” his death on social media.

Society is something.

Most of this **** I see people hyper fixate on as problems "in the community" I never even come across. No doubt they exist, but not to level people make it to generate traffic.

 

[RustyShackleford]

One thing I think Kevin was 100% dead right on is that people need to be open to going to therapy

Having unaddressed mental health issues is gonna undermine any effort to have a successful and fulfilling relationship

 

[aepps20]

One thing I think Kevin was 100% dead right on is that people need to be open to going to therapy

Having unaddressed mental health issues is gonna undermine any effort to have a successful and fulfilling relationship

That is probably da biggest takeaway from his shows. Mental health is health. You aren't fighting through a broken leg so why fight through mental issues. High Value Men like myself understand that lib scums don't want us at our best but jokes on them. I go to therapy after every shift in da mines. My therapist told me to work off da jab in da early rounds and that's what I will do.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I got homeboy that cheated on their wife, almost got divorced, and be talking that Kevin Samuels talk (high-value men have discrete affairs)

Had to tell mans that while I respect his work, CVS store managers don't get high-value benefits

Stop banging your associates

 

[aepps20]

I got homeboy that cheated on their wife, almost got divorced, and be talking that Kevin Samuels talk (high-value men have discrete affairs)

Had to tell mans that while I respect his work, CVS store managers don't get high-value benefits

Stop banging your associates

Joke's on him because libs are never high Value no matter how much they cry in da Veg Wraps.

 

[tokes99]

He doesn't just keep his critiques to the physical. He asserts black women are uniquely disloyal and disrespectful to black men. Compared to women other other races to men of their race

That women ingest bad dating and empowerment advice and just **** on black men needlessly.

Some women do that, but there is no evidence most or the median do. But that is an assumption Samuels wants people to accept



Ok couples have to figure out what works for them. Men and women.

My point was that Samuels's rhetoric is sloppy and that because of the sloppiness he applies analysis meant for certain men, to men generally. An average joe could come away from his show thinking that the proper way for a partner to behave toward him is cooking/cleaning/not challenging him. But in reality, that is unrealistic partly because someone contributing a decent chunk to household income is not gonna just go for that. Another way to put it, dudes identify with Samuels's description of a high-value man, and the power they should have in relationships when they are regular 9-5 working joes.

Nothing wrong with being a regular joe, like zero, put dudes think too much of Kevin's rhetoric is pertinent to them.



I agree

Times are changing. I don't think men toward the center of the income distribution can expect of engaging in the types of relations of 60 and 70 years ago.

Women have more agency over their economic futures now. The macroeconomy doesn't allow for many single income middle class households



I would agree that relationships today are different from the past. For a number of reasons

I point is that Samuels conflates different types of relationships to the point that some dudes can walk away from his show thinking that the major problem in relationships today is that women don't behave as their grandmothers did. There is no deeper conversation about the socioeconomic forces that changed things, or why it is more prevalent in black communities, Samuels gives a summary judgment that is just mainly the moral failing of black women. What is even funnier, Kevin points to a period in time when things were better, but similar criticism was made about black people during that period.

Samuels's commentary of what people are attracted to in the dating marketplace is generally right. I don't have an issue with fit, friendly, feminine-attracting men.

My thing is when he talks about why marriages break down and make macro takes about it I feel he is off base and sloppy. He knows marriage is not that simple, hell you can tell that when he is asked about his own marriage failing.

I just don't think his basic more basic dating advice can crowd out all the other stuff to the point Kevin's rhetoric is totally innocuous. Nah, he said some **** up **** IMO

i definitely see the distinction between his audience and the demographic of men he claimed to be speaking on behalf of, which somewhat is part of the mismatch of expectations; similar to seemingly every woman basically pining for ‘high value men,” most men want to be able to enact some level of authority in their relationship, it’s just the negotiation of which has so much variability for most men woman to man, and is going to be both conditional & likely ongoing in a way that i don’t think is the case man to woman. i’d argue, and this is just my opinion from talking to the women in my life in conjunction with the discourse i see online, that men are more likely to not hold a grudge against their partner for their inadequacies or their own disappointment in choice (this is one i’ve heard quite commonly) nor constantly relitigate the terms of the relationship

i guess i never put much stock in his analysis of the origination of the problem(s), because as i recall him saying before “the world doesn’t owe us understanding” and regardless of the circumstances of how we come and the the reality is people will disqualify based on where they are/what they want. i would say his diagnosis in terms of prescriptions seemingly had merit even if maybe how he arrived at them was malformed

I got homeboy that cheated on their wife, almost got divorced, and be talking that Kevin Samuels talk (high-value men have discrete affairs)

Had to tell mans that while I respect his work, CVS store managers don't get high-value benefits

Stop banging your associates

ya boy a menace for ‘exercising options’ at the workplace! question is, did his ol’ lady find out tho?? i never like the parsing of ‘high value men’ exercising options’ as tho there were something particular about men with money, power, and/or status being different in this regard, rather the women folk calculate that it is more acceptable from certain men…but generally a man that has options available to him, irrespective of value, may succumb to the temptation almost inevitably, as is our innate programming some men are less impulsive & more principled but it definitely isn’t restricted to the ‘high value’ ilk…which again is the appeal of content like samuels, because men’s desires are not dissimilar based on status

 

[RustyShackleford]

He used to give the girl he cheated with rides home.

Wife found a receipt in their car, and saw he had bought condoms at the store he worked at (along with gummies bears, cocoa butter and lint roller )

He tried to deny it like the cashier must have made a mistake

His wife said "ok dispute it with the credit card company", but mans knew he was on tape at the store buying them. He didn't want to get fired for lying about a chargeback

He finally admitted he was blowing the sidepeice's back out in their Honda Odyssey.

 

[tokes99]

can’t imagine being caught out there because of something that careless & superficially irrelevant…i know man had to be punching air having to come clean off the idea of having to see himself of camera casually coppin condoms carefree (#alliteration)