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Dude just wild and reckless all around.
Kevin Samuels Dead at 56
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by Beruseruku Desu,
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To the first part I think Kevin is right. Feminism did what slavery and Jim Crow couldn’t do……which is to break up the black family thus breaking up the black community. This “strong independent women” nonsense is only said by black women……you don’t hear other races of women saying that garbage.
Kevin also said that women of other races respect their men even if they are average. As he said…..”the Hispanic male that sells fruit off the highway gets respect from their women……why can’t average black men get the same”. To that point Kevin is right again. Average brothas get overlooked all the time and don’t nearly get the same level of cooperation that another man of another race would by their women.
We already know how women…..particularly black women were incentivized to “remove” their black man from the home in order to receive government benefits.
Regarding the second point I don’t or didn’t see his analysis for “average joes” as you saw it. What I got was he saw how average black women were less agreeable and respectable to their average black men in return……for various reasons.
Also……when it comes to divorce it’s black women that file for divorce and continuously leave black men…..continuing to destroy the black family and break us apart.
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These two statements contradict each other sir.
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Slavery and Jim Crow aint did what now!?!
RustyShackleford
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I think this is just flat out wrong
-Go read the Moynihan report, which came out in 1965. Before feminism took off, especially among black women, the same stuff was being said about the black family. This isn't some new talking point. It has existed in conservative circles for nearly 60 years. Kevin is just repackaging it for a new audience and dudes eat it up.
Man-in-house laws were administrative rules for AFDC (pre-1997 welfare program) in many states, true. But they were struck down by the Supreme Court in 1968 . Furthermore, at the time they were in place, men and women were choosing to split their households. Like it took me 5 minutes of thought for Kevin's points in relation to welfare it breaks down
So Kevin claims modern black women aren't as loyal/quality/respectful/whatever as their grandmothers. Then he points to man-in-the-house laws as evidence but those existed in a time when folk grandmothers and great grandmothers were running households. So the evidence of modern black women being disloyal is something from the 60s. I think the state undermines the black family, but using that data point is flawed.
Furthermore, despite all this harping on black women on welfare, AFDC received a massive cut under Clinton when it was replaced with. Pushing many families off it and increasing the numbers of stuff like SNAP. This whole "states use welfare to break up the black family" has some truth to it but in modern days this talking point has a massive problem.....state, especially Republican ones pass laws and adds administrative rules to keep people off of welfare programs. And that economic insecurity makes family formation even harder.
If people cared so much about incentivizing family formation in the black community, then they should be pushing for things that decrease the cost of raising a child that has a marriage benefit. We were Kevin and his fans on the enhanced child credit? Mans says throwing out economic data and problems like it is some Trump card but gives zero inspection to economic solutions for this problem. Instead, everything is blamed on the unique moral failings of black women. Kevin can't ask me to be smart and dumb at the same time.
-My girl worked for years as a social worker in Vegas dealing with DV victims, one thing she always said was that it was hard to get black women to help because they are hesitant to call the police on their partners. "I don't want him to get shot" was a common phrase my girl heard. From what I have read and seen, I just don't think there is enough evidence out there to label black women as uniquely disrespectful
-Men's rights, incel or Redpill website, and you will find dudes of all races complaining about their women being disloyal. This isn't unique to black men. The thing is Kevin is black, clearly lived within the black community, and was involved with black institutions, and Kevin's audience was mainly black so he made these claims that black women have this special pathology for disrespect. The thing is, there will be major confirmation bias with his audience because most would primarily date black women, have bad experiences with black women, and think that this is a fact. Ignoring the fact they don't have a representative sample size.
Kevin just dressed up a lot of misogyny as some enlighted (mainly because they have been missing from the mainstream discourse for some time) takes but were just bad IMO. Believe what you want, I will believe he peddled a lot of BS about black women/people. Maybe he came to those positions an honest way, but still thinks they are bad.
I think a lot of Kevin Samuels fans don't even realize they became just like the "blame everything on black men" sistas they claim to hate.
Grievances from unsuccessful relationships make people marks for dudes that feed that animosity
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Slavery and Jim Crow aint did what now!?!
I meant to put just Jim Crow and not slavery.
RustyShackleford
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That was so ridiculous I didn't want to touch itSlavery and Jim Crow aint did what now!?!
People were sold off during slavery
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A lot of them actually have a hatred towards black men and blame us for taking their women too.
Once I saw that I already knew what timing these fools were on.
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People got killed
They were either outright killed or worked to death
We were seen as less than human and treated as such, the world protected and empowered the terrible people who committed atrocities during both
I don’t care what you think of black women, saying flippant things like that is a whole other level of stupid
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I misspoke by using slavery…..but the Jim Crow portion is correct.
RustyShackleford
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So the widespread domestic Terrorism that was going on during Jim Crow didn't break up families?
Do you want to tell Medgar Evers family that?
This just reads like you are saying there were implicit benefits from forced segregation and economic discrimination
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@RustyShackleford…..more power to your girl for being a social worker and helping DV victims. In dealing with DV cases unfortunately some not all but some women like to throw around claims of DV with no police report and no physical evidence. Gotta be cautious when automatically throwing claims like that against black men. Too much Color Purple talk as Kevin would say.
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KS likes to push this conspiracy theory about feminism, and the government
breaking black families ect and making black women uniquely disloyal and problematic,
i think that's wrong....
But...
I do think he is touching on something somewhat real
how do i say this...
I think the average black american women has a lower opinion of men
than the average woman of another race.
please do not take that as validating the hatred of black women
or validation of the angry, combative, uncooperative black woman caricature,
but as with all caricatures, there is a small kernel of truth, a
and i think it has less to do with feminism and more to do with structural racism.
breaking black families ect and making black women uniquely disloyal and problematic,
i think that's wrong....
But...
I do think he is touching on something somewhat real
how do i say this...
I think the average black american women has a lower opinion of men
than the average woman of another race.
please do not take that as validating the hatred of black women
or validation of the angry, combative, uncooperative black woman caricature,
but as with all caricatures, there is a small kernel of truth, a
and i think it has less to do with feminism and more to do with structural racism.
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1 of my biggest pet peeves is when people compare inconveniences to some of the worst atrocities in this world’s history committed by men
So for example being asked to wear a mask because of a global pandemic that has killed millions of people.. and comparing that to slavery or the holocaust
So a black person speaking of Jim crow in this manner legit has me in some combo of infuriated, confused and saddened
So for example being asked to wear a mask because of a global pandemic that has killed millions of people.. and comparing that to slavery or the holocaust
So a black person speaking of Jim crow in this manner legit has me in some combo of infuriated, confused and saddened
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Medgar Evans huh?? Talk about using a rather isolated specific incident. Do you think the average brotha was getting gunned down in their driveway or parking lot as they came home to their family?! I’ll wait on your response to that.
Dude have time look at the FACTS as listed below and check their emotions at the door…..we don’t have time for that.
They found that African Americans age 35 and older were more likely to be married than White Americans from 1890 until sometime around the 1960s. Not only did they swap places during the 60s but in 1980 the number of NEVER married African Americans began a staggering climb from about 10% to more than 25% by 2010 while the percentage for White women remained under 10% and just over 10% for White men.
BLACK MARRIAGE - BlackDemographics.com
Black Marriage in America | Statistics: 30% of African Americans were married compared to 48% of all Americans. Half or 50% have never been
blackdemographics.com
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Time to strap in boys....we're going there today.
RustyShackleford
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Do you think the killing of an innocent black man during Jim Crow was an isolated incident?Medgar Evans huh?? Talk about using a rather isolated specific incident. Do you think the average brotha was getting gunned down in their driveway or parking lot as they came home to their family?! I’ll wait on your response to that.
Dude have time look at the FACTS as listed below and check their emotions at the door…..we don’t have time for that.
They found that African Americans age 35 and older were more likely to be married than White Americans from 1890 until sometime around the 1960s. Not only did they swap places during the 60s but in 1980 the number of NEVER married African Americans began a staggering climb from about 10% to more than 25% by 2010 while the percentage for White women remained under 10% and just over 10% for White men.
BLACK MARRIAGE - BlackDemographics.com
Black Marriage in America | Statistics: 30% of African Americans were married compared to 48% of all Americans. Half or 50% have never been
My point went over your head then. I am saying that Jim Crow wasn't some innocuous period for the black family. That the amount of terrorism black people faced destroyed families too. The socioeconomic condition black people faced had a hand in the marriage rates because black people were forced into specific areas and the marriages served as economic security for black women in those times. It wasn't from better morals, the reality of the world help create those outcomes. You give no deeper thought to what drove these outcomes
You realize the website you post all shows black men engaging in interracial marriage at a higher rate, and blames the war on drugs on helping hurting marriage rates
It undermines your point about feminism in a big way champ.
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Speaking of interracial marriage, loving v Virginia’s ruling was June of ‘67
RustyShackleford
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I can't guess what is in the hearts and minds of every black woman in America.
But let us assume you are correct
Moral panics are often built on a kernel of truth, but take it to an unreasonable and reactionary point
I think it is nasty work for Samuels to try to foment a moral panic regarding modern black American women in such a sloppy way.
Giving some solid basic dating advice is not enough of a shield for people to ignore this. And it is clear a lot of his listeners don't examine his rhetoric any deeper than "This sounds right, it makes me feel good about my views". If you notice on NT, a lot of Samuels fans have an issue with the discussion not starting with the acceptance that Samuels is right about everything. No nuanced conversation can take place under these conditions
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This part is always overlooked. It’s wild to me.
Just have a convo with an elder. A real convo. Especially with like a matriarch or something. Tons of family secrets, children outside of the marriage, more broken families and estranged families.
There’s a tendency to look back with rose colored lenses at that time period to people having moral clarity, and sticking in marriages/relationships due to that morality. When it often times wasn’t the case.
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It was also ignored in the Bill Cosby thread when fools went full bootstrap politics, and the DC Uber driver thread.
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ok course, like I've said KS would tilt into misogyny.
but I think like many reactionaries, I think he was hitting on something real.
or at least something that many men believe.
i don't approve of the scapegoating
i would put that firmly in the misogynistic stuff from KS
that a responsible listener should take with a dump truck of salt.
unfortunately many listeners are not responsible.
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No champ the point went over your head which is why you reached for the stars with that Medgar Evers example. The FACT remains that the black marriage rate was higher THEN than what it is NOW. Black women NOW are the ones filing for divorce, not black men. I have statistical data to back up my points……..all you have is empty rhetoric.
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Blaming it on feminism is dumb imo
Women were always at some point going
to demand equal treatment-> become less dependant on men->get married less often.
Black women were the only group of women who went through that process
while the men of their race were;
subjected to a campaign of racial terror
locked out of inter generational wealth accumulation
ravaged by drug addiction
and mass incarcerated
it's not surprising to me that a cultural attitude would develop over time
that men were untrustworthy and not worthy of respect
and self reliance was more preferable.
but I think that a inclination towards self reliance that at one point may have made sense.
has become somewhat harmful and sometimes toxic.
Women were always at some point going
to demand equal treatment-> become less dependant on men->get married less often.
Black women were the only group of women who went through that process
while the men of their race were;
subjected to a campaign of racial terror
locked out of inter generational wealth accumulation
ravaged by drug addiction
and mass incarcerated
it's not surprising to me that a cultural attitude would develop over time
that men were untrustworthy and not worthy of respect
and self reliance was more preferable.
but I think that a inclination towards self reliance that at one point may have made sense.
has become somewhat harmful and sometimes toxic.
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