Kobe's game 7

[bijald0331]

LeBron probably won't win the MVP next year for the same reason Jordan didn't win the award in 1993. Yes, I made that comparison.

 

[bijald0331]

LeBron probably won't win the MVP next year for the same reason Jordan didn't win the award in 1993. Yes, I made that comparison.

 

[pharelfor3]

this is still going on

 

[pharelfor3]

this is still going on

 

[peks03]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



No, but I bet you and your LeBron hater/Kobe stanboys buddies will be right here next summer to make an argument for how winning MVP is as significant as winning 6th man of the year after Bron wins his 3rd straight MVP.

nah, i would just congradulate LBJ on finally matching kobe's 3 MVP's in a row...2008 league MVP + 2009 finals MVP + 2010 finals MVP = 3 actual (as opposed to hoped for) MVP's in a row.  as long as kobe (the real king) keeps on racking up finals MVP's, i really and truly don't care who gets the regular season league MVP.  in fact, give steve nash his 3rd...he looked like he could use a little pick-me-up after the WCF.  don't worry though xtapol, LBJ's gotta win some time...i mean kobe has to retire.  there's still hope for prince jimmy.

back to the original topic...kobe's game 7 was good enough for him to get his 5th actual ring and 2nd actual finals MVP.  the finals MVP is for the entire series and not just for one game or a couple quarters here and there.  a champion (kobe, jordan, magic, bird, NO lebron) manages to score and contribute other things to the game when his shot isn't falling that particular night.  kobe ("mr. non-finisher" to paraphrase xtapol) only scored 10 points in that unimportant final quarter of a game 7-of-7 on 4 whole shots...i could be wrong, but that sounds like a pretty good and efficient closer to me imho.

pau got all those offensive rebounds because first of all, that's his job as a big man and second of all, whenever kobe has the ball everyone keys on him as a known MVP. 

 

[peks03]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



No, but I bet you and your LeBron hater/Kobe stanboys buddies will be right here next summer to make an argument for how winning MVP is as significant as winning 6th man of the year after Bron wins his 3rd straight MVP.

nah, i would just congradulate LBJ on finally matching kobe's 3 MVP's in a row...2008 league MVP + 2009 finals MVP + 2010 finals MVP = 3 actual (as opposed to hoped for) MVP's in a row.  as long as kobe (the real king) keeps on racking up finals MVP's, i really and truly don't care who gets the regular season league MVP.  in fact, give steve nash his 3rd...he looked like he could use a little pick-me-up after the WCF.  don't worry though xtapol, LBJ's gotta win some time...i mean kobe has to retire.  there's still hope for prince jimmy.

back to the original topic...kobe's game 7 was good enough for him to get his 5th actual ring and 2nd actual finals MVP.  the finals MVP is for the entire series and not just for one game or a couple quarters here and there.  a champion (kobe, jordan, magic, bird, NO lebron) manages to score and contribute other things to the game when his shot isn't falling that particular night.  kobe ("mr. non-finisher" to paraphrase xtapol) only scored 10 points in that unimportant final quarter of a game 7-of-7 on 4 whole shots...i could be wrong, but that sounds like a pretty good and efficient closer to me imho.

pau got all those offensive rebounds because first of all, that's his job as a big man and second of all, whenever kobe has the ball everyone keys on him as a known MVP. 

 

[bijald0331]

^You sound really young man. I'm not knocking your basketball knowledge or anything. Just the way you type and word your arguments...

Anyways, if you think Kobe had a good game 7, I mean w/e. Keep thinking that way. He still deserved the Finals MVP though. 28 ppg in that series is excellent given the defense both sides were playing.

I hate Kobe stans because they take shots at LeBron for his team shortcomings (show me one player on the Cavs, besides LeBron, who didn't regress in the playoffs) and minimize his individual greatness (I hate to use this phrase but check his stats and performances). They do it just because. Compare Kobe and LeBron today as individual players and it's just plain wrong to think Kobe is better. Right now, nothing points in Kobe's direction. Nothing. I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplishments or his uber, out-of-this-world clutchness, even though LeBron put up better 4th quarter clutch numbers than Kobe this year.

I mean why is it hard to admit that a 30+ plus year old has been eclipsed by a one in a generation athlete? Doesn't take away from Kobe's accomplishments or career at all. I still appreciate Kobe even though I wholeheartedly believe LeBron is better than him right now.

 

[bijald0331]

^You sound really young man. I'm not knocking your basketball knowledge or anything. Just the way you type and word your arguments...

Anyways, if you think Kobe had a good game 7, I mean w/e. Keep thinking that way. He still deserved the Finals MVP though. 28 ppg in that series is excellent given the defense both sides were playing.

I hate Kobe stans because they take shots at LeBron for his team shortcomings (show me one player on the Cavs, besides LeBron, who didn't regress in the playoffs) and minimize his individual greatness (I hate to use this phrase but check his stats and performances). They do it just because. Compare Kobe and LeBron today as individual players and it's just plain wrong to think Kobe is better. Right now, nothing points in Kobe's direction. Nothing. I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplishments or his uber, out-of-this-world clutchness, even though LeBron put up better 4th quarter clutch numbers than Kobe this year.

I mean why is it hard to admit that a 30+ plus year old has been eclipsed by a one in a generation athlete? Doesn't take away from Kobe's accomplishments or career at all. I still appreciate Kobe even though I wholeheartedly believe LeBron is better than him right now.

 

[peks03]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

^You sound really young man. I'm not knocking your basketball knowledge or anything. Just the way you type and word your arguments...

Anyways, if you think Kobe had a good game 7, I mean w/e. Keep thinking that way. He still deserved the Finals MVP though. 28 ppg in that series is excellent given the defense both sides were playing.

I hate Kobe stans because they take shots at LeBron for his team shortcomings (show me one player on the Cavs, besides LeBron, who didn't regress in the playoffs) and minimize his individual greatness (I hate to use this phrase but check his stats and performances). They do it just because. Compare Kobe and LeBron today as individual players and it's just plain wrong to think Kobe is better. Right now, nothing points in Kobe's direction. Nothing. I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplishments or his uber, out-of-this-world clutchness, even though LeBron put up better 4th quarter clutch numbers than Kobe this year.

I mean why is it hard to admit that a 30+ plus year old has been eclipsed by a one in a generation athlete? Doesn't take away from Kobe's accomplishments or career at all. I still appreciate Kobe even though I wholeheartedly believe LeBron is better than him right now.

i never said that kobe had a "good" game 7, i said that it was "good enough".  nah, i'm far from young but being facetious mainly for the kobe-haters out there trying to detract from his accomplishments.  i don't hate lebron, but i don't really like how a ton of fans are on his jock so much and the guy hasn't done anything yet except for win some individual awards.

kobe eclipsed...really?  the guy is only the current finals MVP and defending two-time champion right now and barring any major changes or injuries next season, has a realistic chance of making it three in a row.  you make it sound like kobe's career is already over and only something to reflect on just because LBJ is putting up some huge numbers.

kobe averaged 33.7 ppg to include a 40 pt. game during the conference finals and 28.6 ppg during the 2010 finals.  need we go over lebron's ppg during that same time...or maybe you'd rather discuss minutes played, steals, rebounds, assists...?  there's a few numbers that are still pointing kobe's way.

  

 

[peks03]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

^You sound really young man. I'm not knocking your basketball knowledge or anything. Just the way you type and word your arguments...

Anyways, if you think Kobe had a good game 7, I mean w/e. Keep thinking that way. He still deserved the Finals MVP though. 28 ppg in that series is excellent given the defense both sides were playing.

I hate Kobe stans because they take shots at LeBron for his team shortcomings (show me one player on the Cavs, besides LeBron, who didn't regress in the playoffs) and minimize his individual greatness (I hate to use this phrase but check his stats and performances). They do it just because. Compare Kobe and LeBron today as individual players and it's just plain wrong to think Kobe is better. Right now, nothing points in Kobe's direction. Nothing. I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplishments or his uber, out-of-this-world clutchness, even though LeBron put up better 4th quarter clutch numbers than Kobe this year.

I mean why is it hard to admit that a 30+ plus year old has been eclipsed by a one in a generation athlete? Doesn't take away from Kobe's accomplishments or career at all. I still appreciate Kobe even though I wholeheartedly believe LeBron is better than him right now.

i never said that kobe had a "good" game 7, i said that it was "good enough".  nah, i'm far from young but being facetious mainly for the kobe-haters out there trying to detract from his accomplishments.  i don't hate lebron, but i don't really like how a ton of fans are on his jock so much and the guy hasn't done anything yet except for win some individual awards.

kobe eclipsed...really?  the guy is only the current finals MVP and defending two-time champion right now and barring any major changes or injuries next season, has a realistic chance of making it three in a row.  you make it sound like kobe's career is already over and only something to reflect on just because LBJ is putting up some huge numbers.

kobe averaged 33.7 ppg to include a 40 pt. game during the conference finals and 28.6 ppg during the 2010 finals.  need we go over lebron's ppg during that same time...or maybe you'd rather discuss minutes played, steals, rebounds, assists...?  there's a few numbers that are still pointing kobe's way.

  

 

[bijald0331]

"I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplisments."

You just did that. LeBron didn't get to those rounds. Why? I already said his team failed him. Look at their playoff stats and tell me who was the only one who didn't regress?
Kobe was the biggest part of getting that title back to LA, no doubt. But to not see his supporting cast's superiority over the Cavs is just crazy. Inb4 people saying, "well the team won 120+ plus games the last two years". Look at their playoff stats. That's when real players are discovered right? Kobe's legacy will be primarily based off that, no (the first line of his player bio)? Mo Williams is great against the Clippers and Grizzlies in December; he is terrible against playoff competition. Jamison straight flat-lined during the playoffs.

 

[bijald0331]

"I guarantee any detractor of my arguments will point to his team accomplisments."

You just did that. LeBron didn't get to those rounds. Why? I already said his team failed him. Look at their playoff stats and tell me who was the only one who didn't regress?
Kobe was the biggest part of getting that title back to LA, no doubt. But to not see his supporting cast's superiority over the Cavs is just crazy. Inb4 people saying, "well the team won 120+ plus games the last two years". Look at their playoff stats. That's when real players are discovered right? Kobe's legacy will be primarily based off that, no (the first line of his player bio)? Mo Williams is great against the Clippers and Grizzlies in December; he is terrible against playoff competition. Jamison straight flat-lined during the playoffs.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by MJsaver

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

jbone2308 wrote:

---

Lebron stans trying too hard.

It's aight because they will be doing this for another summer next year when he gets sent home in the playoffs.

No, but I bet you and your LeBron hater/Kobe stanboys buddies will be right here next summer to make an argument for how winning MVP is as significant as winning 6th man of the year after Bron wins his 3rd straight MVP.

So youre awarding king james the 2011 M.V.P. before the season even starts huh?

No wonder you've been so openminded throughout this discussion.

Bron could very well win it next year, but you givin it to him already is just Silly and proves your mancrush on him is what drives your hate for Kobe.


  


Funny, because the guy I was replying to made a prediction of his own before the season even started. But you didn't seem too upset about that one for whatever reason (the reason being hate).

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by MJsaver

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

jbone2308 wrote:

---

Lebron stans trying too hard.

It's aight because they will be doing this for another summer next year when he gets sent home in the playoffs.

No, but I bet you and your LeBron hater/Kobe stanboys buddies will be right here next summer to make an argument for how winning MVP is as significant as winning 6th man of the year after Bron wins his 3rd straight MVP.

So youre awarding king james the 2011 M.V.P. before the season even starts huh?

No wonder you've been so openminded throughout this discussion.

Bron could very well win it next year, but you givin it to him already is just Silly and proves your mancrush on him is what drives your hate for Kobe.


  


Funny, because the guy I was replying to made a prediction of his own before the season even started. But you didn't seem too upset about that one for whatever reason (the reason being hate).

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

lol @ 'Because it's Kobe', like the person had nothing to do with the negative opinions formed about him

Those Tim Duncan games, was there someone else that had a REALLY nice game while he struggled, and someone that maybe averaged a double-double in the series?

Same 2 questions for all the other games mentioned. Were there individual games where the superstar struggled and someone else had a great game that night? And that player also had a highly impressive series?

Obviously, West had teammates that had great games while he struggled, but I doubt he had teammates that had better series than him in those Finals losses.

Kobe turned a lot of people off to him before he won his first championship, lost more folks on the way to his first finals loss, and continued to lose people until he went through this tranformation 3-4 years ago. Now, he's laughing it up in interviews, playing as the consummate (sp?) teammate, kissing the wife and kids constantly, and just portraying an image that's hard to dislike.

The image he portrayed before was easy to dislike, so people disliked him. So when it comes to compare him w/ some other great, acting like all things are equal or similar, it has to be mentioned that all things are not equal or similar.

"Excellent player struggled in gm. 7."

True, that can be said about a lot of players.

"He's a great player who turned off a lot of people because of his persona and playing style, then had a forgettable gm. 7 (to cap off a great series) alongside a teammate who had an excellent gm. 7 (and also had a great series)."

Can that be said about all the other greats mentioned?

What the hell does Kobe's image have to do with his accomplishments on the court?  If you don't like the guy that's fine, nobody says that you have to.  But to use that as a reason to knock his game on the court is absurd.  Tim Duncan is a nice guy therefore it's ok for him to under perform in the big games?  Kobe is one of the greatest winners of all time and one of the greatest players of all time, I really don't see how anyone can deny that. 

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

lol @ 'Because it's Kobe', like the person had nothing to do with the negative opinions formed about him

Those Tim Duncan games, was there someone else that had a REALLY nice game while he struggled, and someone that maybe averaged a double-double in the series?

Same 2 questions for all the other games mentioned. Were there individual games where the superstar struggled and someone else had a great game that night? And that player also had a highly impressive series?

Obviously, West had teammates that had great games while he struggled, but I doubt he had teammates that had better series than him in those Finals losses.

Kobe turned a lot of people off to him before he won his first championship, lost more folks on the way to his first finals loss, and continued to lose people until he went through this tranformation 3-4 years ago. Now, he's laughing it up in interviews, playing as the consummate (sp?) teammate, kissing the wife and kids constantly, and just portraying an image that's hard to dislike.

The image he portrayed before was easy to dislike, so people disliked him. So when it comes to compare him w/ some other great, acting like all things are equal or similar, it has to be mentioned that all things are not equal or similar.

"Excellent player struggled in gm. 7."

True, that can be said about a lot of players.

"He's a great player who turned off a lot of people because of his persona and playing style, then had a forgettable gm. 7 (to cap off a great series) alongside a teammate who had an excellent gm. 7 (and also had a great series)."

Can that be said about all the other greats mentioned?

What the hell does Kobe's image have to do with his accomplishments on the court?  If you don't like the guy that's fine, nobody says that you have to.  But to use that as a reason to knock his game on the court is absurd.  Tim Duncan is a nice guy therefore it's ok for him to under perform in the big games?  Kobe is one of the greatest winners of all time and one of the greatest players of all time, I really don't see how anyone can deny that. 

 

[u ttocs]

wow people are still trying to hold onto the Shaq argument? Last I checked Kobe has more rings than Shaq, so clearly he didn't need Shaq to win a title. Nobody ever cries about the fact that Shaq always needed a dominant perimeter player to win a championship. You can't say he didn't need a dominant swingman because he never won a title without Kobe or Wade, and he doesn't even have more titles than Kobe. So Kobe needed Shaq, but Shaq didn't need Kobe and Wade? The hypocrisy is comical especially after all that's transpired.

And notice how the only people that have these ridiculous discussions are clueless fan boys from the internet or elsewhere. All the players, former players, and coaches all give Kobe the credit he deserves. Alvin Gentry and Doc Rivers are the ones that said Kobe is on Michael's level, that's not Laker fans. Magic, Jerry West, and Shaq himself have all said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. If you're the greatest Laker of all time then you're one of the top 5 greatest players of all time. Those are all time legends saying that, not a bunch of nobody's on niketalk.

 

[u ttocs]

wow people are still trying to hold onto the Shaq argument? Last I checked Kobe has more rings than Shaq, so clearly he didn't need Shaq to win a title. Nobody ever cries about the fact that Shaq always needed a dominant perimeter player to win a championship. You can't say he didn't need a dominant swingman because he never won a title without Kobe or Wade, and he doesn't even have more titles than Kobe. So Kobe needed Shaq, but Shaq didn't need Kobe and Wade? The hypocrisy is comical especially after all that's transpired.

And notice how the only people that have these ridiculous discussions are clueless fan boys from the internet or elsewhere. All the players, former players, and coaches all give Kobe the credit he deserves. Alvin Gentry and Doc Rivers are the ones that said Kobe is on Michael's level, that's not Laker fans. Magic, Jerry West, and Shaq himself have all said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. If you're the greatest Laker of all time then you're one of the top 5 greatest players of all time. Those are all time legends saying that, not a bunch of nobody's on niketalk.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, people need to stop. 

Kobe was not exactly Derek Fisher during the first 3-peat, but some of you guys need to wake the hell up.  Shaq was a ridiculous, dominant force for the LA Lakers at the start of this century.  Shaq would open up the whole floor for everybody, allowing Kobe to operate as he did.  Teams went into each game/series with the intent of finding a way to slow Shaq as much as possible, which wasn't very possible really.  He was a beast.  Kobe would get doubled a time or two thru the course of a game, mostly when Shaq was out, or a bad defender somehow found his way defending Kobe, but Shaq would get doubled as he was taking off his warmups before opening tip.  He would even see a few triple teams, just for the heck of it. 

Once the 4th rolled around, we all knew Shaq was a liability with his free throw shooting, and after a few possessions in which Shaq would most likely pick up 2-3 fouls on the other team getting LA into the penalty situation, at that point Phil would flip the switch and run things thru Kobe.  This would allow him to create, make plays, and finish where he could, so that HE was the one on the line when the other team picked up those 5th, 6th 7th fouls and all that.  Thereby giving Kobe "the closer role" so to speak. 

This is what made them so damn dynamic.  Clearly, we have learned that Kobe himself could run an offense and be a focal point, and carry a team, but by NO means, does that mean he was going to go out and win championships by himself with a bunch of Kwame's and Smush's. 

As Kobe grew, and got better, and improved summer by summer, he wanted to do more and more.  And Shaq was already established in his legacy, he hated working out, he liked taking time off during the season, "resting" fot the playoffs and what not, and they began to clash. 

They were clearly a 1A, 1B situation, with Kobe maybe being the best 1B we're seen play, but he WAS 1B.  There is zero doubt, there is no downplaying of what Shaq did as a Laker.

In the end, Kobe may go on to have a "better" career then Shaq in terms of final number of titles and what not, career numbers, etc etc etc, but at no point should we as Laker fans try to make Shaq look like anything less then THEE driving force behind our first 3-peat.  He deserves that credit, and always shall. 

Nobody downplays what Scottie did to earn his first 3-peat.   Nobody should for Kobe either.  They played different roles, they did different things, but they were both elite level 1B options on those teams.  Kevin McHale, James Worthy/Kareem, etc etc.  There's nothing wrong with the roles they all played, they were all champions and all had moments that earned those titles in crucial situations.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, people need to stop. 

Kobe was not exactly Derek Fisher during the first 3-peat, but some of you guys need to wake the hell up.  Shaq was a ridiculous, dominant force for the LA Lakers at the start of this century.  Shaq would open up the whole floor for everybody, allowing Kobe to operate as he did.  Teams went into each game/series with the intent of finding a way to slow Shaq as much as possible, which wasn't very possible really.  He was a beast.  Kobe would get doubled a time or two thru the course of a game, mostly when Shaq was out, or a bad defender somehow found his way defending Kobe, but Shaq would get doubled as he was taking off his warmups before opening tip.  He would even see a few triple teams, just for the heck of it. 

Once the 4th rolled around, we all knew Shaq was a liability with his free throw shooting, and after a few possessions in which Shaq would most likely pick up 2-3 fouls on the other team getting LA into the penalty situation, at that point Phil would flip the switch and run things thru Kobe.  This would allow him to create, make plays, and finish where he could, so that HE was the one on the line when the other team picked up those 5th, 6th 7th fouls and all that.  Thereby giving Kobe "the closer role" so to speak. 

This is what made them so damn dynamic.  Clearly, we have learned that Kobe himself could run an offense and be a focal point, and carry a team, but by NO means, does that mean he was going to go out and win championships by himself with a bunch of Kwame's and Smush's. 

As Kobe grew, and got better, and improved summer by summer, he wanted to do more and more.  And Shaq was already established in his legacy, he hated working out, he liked taking time off during the season, "resting" fot the playoffs and what not, and they began to clash. 

They were clearly a 1A, 1B situation, with Kobe maybe being the best 1B we're seen play, but he WAS 1B.  There is zero doubt, there is no downplaying of what Shaq did as a Laker.

In the end, Kobe may go on to have a "better" career then Shaq in terms of final number of titles and what not, career numbers, etc etc etc, but at no point should we as Laker fans try to make Shaq look like anything less then THEE driving force behind our first 3-peat.  He deserves that credit, and always shall. 

Nobody downplays what Scottie did to earn his first 3-peat.   Nobody should for Kobe either.  They played different roles, they did different things, but they were both elite level 1B options on those teams.  Kevin McHale, James Worthy/Kareem, etc etc.  There's nothing wrong with the roles they all played, they were all champions and all had moments that earned those titles in crucial situations.

 

[jbone2308]

It's fine to make a prediction and I brought up Lebron for the simple fact the only hate Kobe is getting in this thread is from people who want Lebron to eclispe Kobe.

The FACT is Kobe is still here, playing well, and winning.

Lebrons time may come but how do we know? Is it just because he's a great player? The same can be said about many who played in Jordans era.

You look at the Lakers roster and how they are getting better and how fast teams can buy their way into contention, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.

 

[jbone2308]

It's fine to make a prediction and I brought up Lebron for the simple fact the only hate Kobe is getting in this thread is from people who want Lebron to eclispe Kobe.

The FACT is Kobe is still here, playing well, and winning.

Lebrons time may come but how do we know? Is it just because he's a great player? The same can be said about many who played in Jordans era.

You look at the Lakers roster and how they are getting better and how fast teams can buy their way into contention, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.

 

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by u ttocs

wow people are still trying to hold onto the Shaq argument? Last I checked Kobe has more rings than Shaq, so clearly he didn't need Shaq to win a title. Nobody ever cries about the fact that Shaq always needed a dominant perimeter player to win a championship. You can't say he didn't need a dominant swingman because he never won a title without Kobe or Wade, and he doesn't even have more titles than Kobe. So Kobe needed Shaq, but Shaq didn't need Kobe and Wade? The hypocrisy is comical especially after all that's transpired.

And notice how the only people that have these ridiculous discussions are clueless fan boys from the internet or elsewhere. All the players, former players, and coaches all give Kobe the credit he deserves. Alvin Gentry and Doc Rivers are the ones that said Kobe is on Michael's level, that's not Laker fans. Magic, Jerry West, and Shaq himself have all said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. If you're the greatest Laker of all time then you're one of the top 5 greatest players of all time. Those are all time legends saying that, not a bunch of nobody's on niketalk.

easier to find a dominant perimeter player than a dominant post player....

just because coaches and experts claim one thing, doesnt mean we cant discuss it or give our opinion on it.

 

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by u ttocs

wow people are still trying to hold onto the Shaq argument? Last I checked Kobe has more rings than Shaq, so clearly he didn't need Shaq to win a title. Nobody ever cries about the fact that Shaq always needed a dominant perimeter player to win a championship. You can't say he didn't need a dominant swingman because he never won a title without Kobe or Wade, and he doesn't even have more titles than Kobe. So Kobe needed Shaq, but Shaq didn't need Kobe and Wade? The hypocrisy is comical especially after all that's transpired.

And notice how the only people that have these ridiculous discussions are clueless fan boys from the internet or elsewhere. All the players, former players, and coaches all give Kobe the credit he deserves. Alvin Gentry and Doc Rivers are the ones that said Kobe is on Michael's level, that's not Laker fans. Magic, Jerry West, and Shaq himself have all said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. If you're the greatest Laker of all time then you're one of the top 5 greatest players of all time. Those are all time legends saying that, not a bunch of nobody's on niketalk.

easier to find a dominant perimeter player than a dominant post player....

just because coaches and experts claim one thing, doesnt mean we cant discuss it or give our opinion on it.

 

[deuce king]

Last I checked Kobe has more rings than Shaq, so clearly he didn't need Shaq to win a title

During that timeframe YES Kobe did need Shaq.  

Shaq was a ridiculous, dominant force for the LA Lakers at the start of this century.  Shaq would open up the whole floor for everybody, allowing Kobe to operate as he did.  Teams went into each game/series with the intent of finding a way to slow Shaq as much as possible, which wasn't very possible really.  He was a beast.  Kobe would get doubled a time or two thru the course of a game, mostly when Shaq was out, or a bad defender somehow found his way defending Kobe, but Shaq would get doubled as he was taking off his warmups before opening tip.  He would even see a few triple teams, just for the heck of it. 

I want all you Laker/Kobe fans to keep reading this statement up above and let it soak into your memory so that you never forget it.  Once that happens maybe you dudes will have a better perspective of who and what Kobe really was during his first 3 championships.

They were clearly a 1A, 1B situation, with Kobe maybe being the best 1B we're seen play, but he WAS 1B.  There is zero doubt, there is no downplaying of what Shaq did as a Laker.

In the end, Kobe may go on to have a "better" career then Shaq in terms of final number of titles and what not, career numbers, etc etc etc, but at no point should we as Laker fans try to make Shaq look like anything less then THEE driving force behind our first 3-peat.  He deserves that credit, and always shall. 



Exactly, this is what I've been telling you dudes for the longest on here.  Like I said before, in a team setting, everybody can't be Batman, somebody's got to be Robin, which is was Kobe's role early on in his career.