LeBron Haters Call To Arms! (The Haters Unification Thread)

[shoelyesses]

Doesn't look like you are trying too hard have a serious conversation. You had to be giggling when you wrote that.

You didn't say Kobe is still playing to be win championships in your original post. You said the only reason why Kobe is playing is to "one up" Jordan

I said have you ever thought "Have you ever thought he's still playing because he loves playing the NBA, he loves the competition, he loves the money etc etc. "

Trying to be a champion falls under loves the competition umbrella.

Where did I say I thought Kobe was better than Jordan? I'll wait

Silly 30 million dollars?!?.

Who's going to turn down 30 million for doing something that you are great at and its all you've ever known?

you couldn't have been after saying tp and pau gasol are top 50 nba greats.... like are they even top 100-200 really....? Never said you thought he was better because he isn't and regardless how many chips he gets never will be. He is at the end of his career.

My point is and its funny comparing 2 players...one being LeBron, the other being Kobe.. And the argument is Kobe is better do to rings (btw he has played damn near twice as long) so has more opportunities. Wont even mention he had a top 50 player and one of the greatest centers of all time for over half of those chips.

The thing that upset you guys is the fact LeBron, as of now is a better overall player then Kobe has ever been in any point of his career. Yea he may of made more memorable shots...but that has absolutely nothing to do with skillset and talent. Hell horry has had more then him and more rings...but I wont even go there.

He was more clutch/aggressive...but again that's not a skillset that's a mindset. Has absolutely nothing to do with abilities or talent.

Rebounder...nope, passer...hellllllllllllllllllllll no, ability to get other players involved and make all the players around you better...again hellllll no. ability to defend and play multiple positions...again no. Blocker...nope, Leadership...nope, Ability to change and effect the course of a game with out scoring...nope.

Even in terms of scoring, the stats show he is a more efficient scorer then he ever was. Is Kobe better in terms of skillset and having a multitude of ways of scoring...kobe and it isn't even close.

So outside of anything that isn't individual offensive scoring ability, there isn't anything he has done or will be able to do better. Like I said defender is a wash because Kobe in his prime was a better one on one defender, But LeBron can effectively defend 1-5...which is something Kobe never could do...

 

[shoelyesses]

So Kobe telling Jordan he could beat Jordan one on one when he was like 21 means that the only reason Kobe at age 35 continues to play in the NBA is to "one up Jordan"?

No but when he says his goal was to surpass Jordan does.... Lol I love your pick and choose/selective reading game. So when Kobe said and this is according to Phil Jackson, his goal was to surpass MJ....What do YOU think he meant.

Oh let me guess he was talking about shoe sales.....lol. Or maybe gambling debts. He def was talking about one upping Jordan in terms of years played. No way he could've meant points or dare I say titles....

Your right he meant years with one team, shoe sales, or gambling debts. Nothing related to chips or mvps or any of that silly stuff.

 

[quik1987]

You win runnin thangz, you win

 

[quik1987]

Kobe didn't cheat on his wife either! He was framed!

 

[mister friendly]

I'm having a hard time following you

I dont think I said anything about TP or Gasol being top 50 all time players in this thread.

Kobe said to Jordan he could beat him one on one. What part of the statement says he's personally trying to break Jordan stats or records?

 

[quik1987]

I'm having a hard time following you

I dont think I said anything about TP or Gasol being top 50 all time players in this thread.

Kobe said to Jordan he could beat him one on one. What part of the statement says he's personally trying to break Jordan stats or records?

Why are you ignoring the phil quote saying kobe was obsessed with surpassing jordan?

 

[quik1987]

It's pretty easy to figure out who Jackson was referencing in the following passage: "In his mind he had it all figured out. His goal was to become the greatest basketball player of all time. And he was certain he knew what he had to do to get there. Why should he listen to anybody else? If he followed my advice and cut back his scoring, he'd fall short of his ultimate goal. How was I going to get through to this kid?"



It wasn’t Jordan.



As a young 20-something, Bryant told Lakers teammates he wanted to win 10 rings but was a "stubborn, hard-headed learner," Jackson wrote.



Jackson threatened during one film session in the 1999-2000 season that a trade could be "gladly" worked out if Bryant didn't want to share the ball with his teammates.



Another time, Jackson shot back when Bryant said he wanted to be captain of the team: "You can't be captain if nobody follows you," Jackson recalled saying.



Jackson couldn't help but include a humorous face-to-face meeting between Bryant and Jordan in his first season as the Lakers' coach.



"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson said. "When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork. After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your *** one on one.'"

His inability, Kobe's, to get along with others, then helping out his teammates, making them better, is the huge reason why LeBron is, and then was always, the better basketball player.

Simply look at the players that went to the championship with him in Cleveland, then wonder why you may never see those guys in a Championship again, without a proper Coach and system to support them.

You wont see Mike Brown there again either.

Without Phil's system, Kobe Bryant's game is garbage, completely ineffective.

You will never see him in a finals again as well.

It's LeBron's time, the unselfish superstar.

In case you missed it

 

[mister friendly]

So Kobe telling Jordan he could beat Jordan one on one when he was like 21 means that the only reason Kobe at age 35 continues to play in the NBA is to "one up Jordan"?

Honestly guy its hard to address everything you say because the way you are quoting things, double posting, breaking up replies and quoting rap lyrics

The apology part this is what you said "Forcing his parents to issue an apology for how they handled the selling of the stuff, stuff that actually he gave his mother."

What part of Kobe's parents apology that you posted says Kobe forced it? Again you're making reaching or making stuff up or gossiping.

Where did I say Kobe does no wrong?

 

[quik1987]

"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking,"
- Phil Jackson

 

[sdotc38109]

It's a well known fact that Kobe did not want to play for the Hornets, and he didn't. It had nothing to do with the Hornets actually wanting to trade the pick. If the stories about Kobe were indeed true, those about his having the greatest workout ever in L.A., why would they want to trade him?

The real problem is that many of the fans of Kobe try and hold him up as this infallible object, when he is anything but.

LeBron is a better ballplayer than he is, a better teammate, and then quite obviously, a better person as well.

Because they didn't know how great his workouts were.

 

[mister friendly]

@Thangz

So because Kobe wanted to be the greatest player of all time, it means he wants to "one up" Jordan?

So when Jordan wanted to be the greatest player of all time, it meant he personally wanted to "one up" Wilt or Russell?

And now when Lebron says he wants to be the greatest player of all time, does that mean he personally wants to "one up" Jordan?

 

[mister friendly]

Honestly guy its hard to address everything you say because the way you are quoting things, double posting, breaking up replies and quoting rap lyrics

The apology part this is what you said "Forcing his parents to issue an apology for how they handled the selling of the stuff, stuff that actually he gave his mother."

What part of Kobe's parents apology that you posted says Kobe forced it? Again you're making reaching or making stuff up or gossiping.

Where did I say Kobe does no wrong?

There is a method of denial here that is either brilliant, or downright frightening.

I am going to side with the latter.

 

[mister friendly]

[SIZE=72pxg,"

-[/SIZE]

@Thangz

?

Deal with the above quote.

LeBron is already well on his way to be considered the best of all time, because people have already forgotten Kobe Bryant, with you and your crew here being the only exceptions. Jordan was a hro of LeBron's, no doubt, but he has a different game. He is more Magic and Barkley than MJ. Kobe bit everything off of MJ, even how he spoke.

That was a great finals series wasn't it? One that showed basketball being played within a total team concept by BOTH teams, not the me first showcasing of Kobe Bryant, and he was...not..missed.

The game is much more appreciated by fans, as repped through the viewer ratings of ABC.

What does ABC ratings and the Finals have to do with my previous post?

So I'll say it again

But if Lebron wants to be the greatest of all time is trying to personally "one up" Jordan?

 

[sdotc38109]

"The game is much more appreciated by fans, as repped through the viewer ratings of ABC."

Yeah heat fans, and 90% of them are fake fans who used to be die hard Cavs fans, then bandwagon with Heat when Lebron left.
Their used be so many Cavs fan when they consecutively lead the east 3 years ago but now they've all disappeared.

 

[shoelyesses]

I'm having a hard time following you

I dont think I said anything about TP or Gasol being top 50 all time players in this thread.

Kobe said to Jordan he could beat him one on one. What part of the statement says he's personally trying to break Jordan stats or records?

you stated that tp and pau had better careers then Stockton and Malone...If so then why are Stockton and Malone top 50 players of all time and they are not.

Unless you are suggesting the greatest 50 of all time isn't based on careers. And if it isn't then what is it based on?

Paul Gasol if you want to count success for career is better than Malone. Skillset and ability wise Malone is better. Tony career is better than Stockton.

Note I didn't say nba hall of fame...I stated top 50 players which was composed of the greatest players with the greatest careers.

So if they have better careers as you stated they would be in there...hell would be above them but there not.

 

[mister friendly]

I'm having a hard time following you


I dont think I said anything about TP or Gasol being top 50 all time players in this thread.


Kobe said to Jordan he could beat him one on one. What part of the statement says he's personally trying to break Jordan stats or records?

you stated that tp and pau had better careers then Stockton and Malone...If so then why are Stockton and Malone top 50 players of all time and they are not.

Unless you are suggesting the greatest 50 of all time isn't based on careers. And if it isn't then what is it based on?

Paul Gasol if you want to count success for career is better than Malone. Skillset and ability wise Malone is better. Tony career is better than Stockton.

Note I didn't say nba hall of fame...I stated top 50 players which was composed of the greatest players with the greatest careers.

So if they have better careers as you stated they would be in there...hell would be above them but there not.

No I did not say TP and Gasol had better careers than Stockton and Malone, you are lying.

So find my quote saying that...I'll wait

 

[shoelyesses]

No I did not say TP and Gasol had better careers than Stockton and Malone, you are lying.

So find my quote saying that...I'll wait

I was speaking in reference to abcboyz or whatever the name is...

 

[mister friendly]

So every player that wants to be the be the greatest player of all time is obessed with personally "one upping" Jordan even Lebron and Jordan must've been personally obessed with "one upping" Wilt or Russell

Hmm nice to know.

You can't say Russell is just team success when he won 5 MVPs

 

[shoelyesses]

So every player that wants to be the be the greatest player of all time is obessed with personally "one upping" Jordan even Lebron and Jordan must've been personally obessed with "one upping" Wilt or Russell

Hmm nice to know.

You can't say Russell is just team success when he won 5 MVPs

No only Kobe Bryant who according to Phil Jackson said it does. Now if you can show me where any other player said this....then youll have a point.

And again show me when Jordan said personally to wilt/Russell anyone face to face and said my goal is to one up you. I mean we have credible evidence that Kobe not only said this, he said it directly to MJ....

So lets see we got Phil Jackson, Mj and Kobe himself saying this...versus um your so call refuse to believe it.

Again show me an example of any player who is quoted and said directly to a player my goal is to one up you....as you say ill wait.

 

[sdotc38109]

What does this even mean? Fake fan?

Trends come and go, as this is simply how popular culture is.  That said, all forms of entertainment must try and figure out a way to get the person who is NOT a fan of the game, to pay attention.

That did not, and does not happen with Kobe Bryant. He has always been looked upon by the casual fan as the imitation Jordan, and I and many others who are fans of the sport, agree. Why go and see him, when we've seen the original?  It's like, why should I listen to Chris Botti, when I can listen to Wynton Marsalis or Miles?!

With Dr, J they did, casual fans paid attention, With Magic and Bird, they did as well, and they damned sure did with Jordan. 

It is starting to happen again with LeBron.

By fake fans meaning people who jump from team to team just because they are winning.

Everything below that first statement is non-sense, so responding to that is not necessary.

 

[mister friendly]

So every player that wants to be the be the greatest player of all time is obessed with personally "one upping" Jordan even Lebron and Jordan must've been personally obessed with "one upping" Wilt or Russell


Hmm nice to know.


You can't say Russell is just team success when he won 5 MVPs

No only Kobe Bryant who according to Phil Jackson said it does. Now if you can show me where any other player said this....then youll have a point.

And again show me when Jordan said personally to wilt/Russell anyone face to face and said my goal is to one up you. I mean we have credible evidence that Kobe not only said this, he said it directly to MJ....

So lets see we got Phil Jackson, Mj and Kobe himself saying this...versus um your so call refuse to believe it.

Again show me an example of any player who is quoted and said directly to a player my goal is to one up you....as you say ill wait.

Show me the quote where Kobe said his goal was to personally "one up" Jordan and that's reason why he keeps playing like YOU said is his motivation.

I've looked I can't find it anywhere. In fact I've found quotes to the contrary, when I get home to a computer I can post them for you if you'd like me to.

 

[acbboyz84]

Because he had no chance of winning anything in Cleveland...Um when the last time has any team in any sport substain any success for a extended period of time in Cleveland? Just because he wants to win doesn't mean he feels it will define who he is as a player. What it does means is ppl like yourself and others will define and judge him based on it.

No one wants to lose, why would he want to be the barry sanders of the nba? Why would anyone want to be? Im not even going to mention who putrid, badly run the cavs..hell any Cleveland team has been.

That's like saying oh if I quit working at a horrid place like walmart...then im money hungry and all that matters to me is money. Is it possible that I might not want to work at a dump like walmart? Hell one of my first jobs was mckie dees, im no longer there anymore....it isn't because I made my sole purpose in life to be the richest man in the world. It sucked..i worked hard and for little to nothing, and essentially him staying in Cleveland would result in the same ending (outside of money of course).

What I said was at this stage in Kobe career, he is trying to reach 6/7 rings. How is this not true. Dude aint just out there playing just cause lol.

And hell know tp career isn't better then stocktons...Stockton is regarded as a top 50 player of all time... TP wont even be mentioned as a top 100 all time...are you kidding me... Malone is a top 50 player...again will pau even be talked about 5/10 years from now....

Did you really say tony parker and pau gasol are top 50 players of alltime...really are you really gonna say that with a str8 face and honestly believe that? I mean they would have to be seeing as you said they had better careers, and those players are in fact top 50 players of all time.

As far as goat is concerned it is a pretty much a unanimous census its mj. hell the players you mentioned in conversation of goat say its mj... Yea its some few and far between ppl who may say a wilt a Russell a magic etc... But lets not act like 9/10 ppl wouldn't say mj. You making it out like mj isn't winning goat status by a landslide.

All of this is just frustrated talk...you love kobe, you want kobe, you want to be kobe... you want him to be goat status....he is not period.

He is a prolific, probably greatest/versatile individual scorer of all time (which he might lose that claim to fame to Durant), who at periods of his career was a top tierone on one defender, who made some unbelievable shots throughout his career. And earned 5 rings....etc...along with a few other accolades...Nothing more nothing less. Accept it for what it is.

I think you have a difficult time determining the difference between career vs individual skill/accomplishment.

Glamorously speaking. I said TP career is better than Stockton. Been on 3 championships team, 4 times in the Finals, he's known as a winner more than loser for his career. He's an international star, etc. Stockton was a great PG but how many people around the world know about Stockton vs Tony Parker today? Stockton never won a championship neither. He never been to the top of the mountain.


And you agree lebron got a slim chance to win title in Cleveland. THAt'S WHY HE LEAVE FOR THE RINGS. HE WANT MULTIPLE OF THEM TO ADD TO HIS RESUME. TO DEFINE HIM AS ONE OF THE GOAT or GOAT. lol what else do you want to disagree on? Isn't that what he want after all?

So don't say that ring doesn't define a player career lol. You don't think that's hypocritical of him to say that after the fact that he was basically chasing ring in his prime?

 

[sdotc38109]

You can also admit that you are not a fan of critical thinking.

Go ahead, don't be afraid.

Afraid, !

That said, all forms of entertainment must try and figure out a way to get the person who is NOT a fan of the game, to pay attention.

That did not, and does not happen with Kobe Bryant. He has always been looked upon by the casual fan as the imitation Jordan, and I and many others who are fans of the sport, agree. Why go and see him, when we've seen the original?  It's like, why should I listen to Chris Botti, when I can listen to Wynton Marsalis or Miles?!

Funny how you say that about Kobe when the 2010 finals have the best rating in the last 5 years.

"He has always been looked upon by the casual fan as the imitation Jordan."

Never heard that most casuals fans of the NBA thinks of him like that^^^^^. You may asked the casual fan about LBJ and MJ and get the same response and I also find it funny coming from you knowing that Lebron wore number 23 majority of his career...So who is the real imitation?

 

[shoelyesses]

I think you have a difficult time determining the difference between career vs individual skill/accomplishment.

Glamorously speaking. I said TP career is better than Stockton. Been on 3 championships team, 4 times in the Finals, he's known as a winner more than loser for his career. He's an international star, etc. Stockton was a great PG but how many people around the world know about Stockton vs Tony Parker today? Stockton never won a championship neither. He never been to the top of the mountain.


And you agree lebron got a slim chance to win title in Cleveland. THAt'S WHY HE LEAVE FOR THE RINGS. HE WANT MULTIPLE OF THEM TO ADD TO HIS RESUME. TO DEFINE HIM AS ONE OF THE GOAT or GOAT. lol what else do you want to disagree on? Isn't that what he want after all?

So don't say that ring doesn't define a player career lol. You don't think that's hypocritical of him to say that after the fact that he was basically chasing ring in his prime?

Yet Tp isn't or never will be considered a top 50 player EVER.... So that kinda discredits your whole rings define careers. Hell outta the 50 greatest players of all time about half of them have 2 rings and most of that half have 1 ring or none.....Its only like 10-15 players or the list that have multiple championships. So again still doesn't make sense. Now if your saying rings define goatness then yea ill go with that.... but greatness top alltime players then no. Unless out of that 50 greatest players list 10-15 are great and the rest are well just ok or role players.

Now to be considered the greatest ever to play yeah rings are definitely a factor. But to discredit the other 75% of the greatest players of all time because they didn't get multiple rings just isn't fair. Like you said some circles said Oscar was a goat....and guess what he has a whooping 1 ring and 1 mvp......

So he isn't one of the greatest of all time now? What about jerry west who in many circles is named one of the greatest lakers of all time and definitely goat status seeing as the symbol of nba is the man. He has what 1 ring and 1 chip.

Again I could see if an overwhelmingly majority of the goat players have multiple chips...but when the majority of them don't or never even won a championship it kinda kills your whole rings defines makes you goat status.

 

[shoelyesses]

Show me the quote where Kobe said his goal was to personally "one up" Jordan and that's reason why he keeps playing like YOU said is his motivation.

I've looked I can't find it anywhere. In fact I've found quotes to the contrary, when I get home to a computer I can post them for you if you'd like me to.

Dude posted it like 10 times...even took up almost a entire thread page..... in doing so. So I see your just trolling now. Dude has posted the exert from phils book to which Kobe said it directly to MJ...Which I can respect him saying it to his face, especially at a young unproven age. Phil even said that is why Kobe tried to condition himself and put himself in a position so he could play long enough to achieve this goal....and whatever he has done its working...Not that he will ever surpass MJ, but that he has did a good job in keeping his body in a position to which he could still play and strive to do so.