Lets Discuss The Industry

[the12the22the32the4]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

The average customer loves the idea of a Jordan mixed with an Air Force I think. I can't really see why else they would like it.

It would of been cool if they did the XII Fusion and left it at that. Everything else just went TOO FAR with it and kinda killed the "niche" factor behind it.

Why just operate in a niche market when you can appeal to the mass market?

I understand your point, but we've all seen how the fusions have sold - Nike/JB would have been foolish to have stopped at the XII fusion given how the subsequent ones have sold. They may not appeal to you or I, but they sell and that's what really matters at the end of the day.

Put it this way - I don't care much for Soap Operas, but they are some of the most followed television programming out there - crank out repetitive (ie: cheap and easy) storylines that appeal to the lowest level intellectual demographic and couple that with low production costs, and there you have a simple product that generates a lot of revenue. Same principle for the fusion lines.

 

[gijace]

well, I hope my question is suited in this thread..

just watched the Human Chain commercial and I was shocked to see Rampage in it, is Nike going to venture in MMA?

I remember And1 signing an MMA Athlete back then..

 

[tokes99]

mma is one of the fastest growing sports, so it wouldn't surprise me if the swoosh has been talking with people in that sport, though not sure if it has gained that certain mainstream acceptance, it still has a cultural/generational stigma that has likely been keeping some brands away...

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

The average customer loves the idea of a Jordan mixed with an Air Force I think. I can't really see why else they would like it.



It would of been cool if they did the XII Fusion and left it at that. Everything else just went TOO FAR with it and kinda killed the "niche" factor behind it.

Why just operate in a niche market when you can appeal to the mass market?

I understand your point, but we've all seen how the fusions have sold - Nike/JB would have been foolish to have stopped at the XII fusion given how the subsequent ones have sold. They may not appeal to you or I, but they sell and that's what really matters at the end of the day.

Put it this way - I don't care much for Soap Operas, but they are some of the most followed television programming out there - crank out repetitive (ie: cheap and easy) storylines that appeal to the lowest level intellectual demographic and couple that with low production costs, and there you have a simple product that generates a lot of revenue. Same principle for the fusion lines.

on point analogy, but you could distill it further to people like easily understandable/familiar things generally...i think this fusion stuff all started with the dub zero & has continued to gain steam...no way it could they just do (yes pun!) the fusion xii, it would have appeared mad random, nah it had to run its course...

^That might serve them well, however that's already been done and of course, every good company tries to focus on what their stable of athletes wants. Remember Nike's Alpha Project? That was the best line of shoes and apparel that Nike has done in a looooooooooong time.


definitely, though its not always just what you do, but how its done (sig check!)

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

The average customer loves the idea of a Jordan mixed with an Air Force I think. I can't really see why else they would like it.

It would of been cool if they did the XII Fusion and left it at that. Everything else just went TOO FAR with it and kinda killed the "niche" factor behind it.

Why just operate in a niche market when you can appeal to the mass market?

I understand your point, but we've all seen how the fusions have sold - Nike/JB would have been foolish to have stopped at the XII fusion given how the subsequent ones have sold. They may not appeal to you or I, but they sell and that's what really matters at the end of the day.

Put it this way - I don't care much for Soap Operas, but they are some of the most followed television programming out there - crank out repetitive (ie: cheap and easy) storylines that appeal to the lowest level intellectual demographic and couple that with low production costs, and there you have a simple product that generates a lot of revenue. Same principle for the fusion lines.

Well yeah, that's what i've been saying all along. Not really pointing out anything. What I was saying with my last post was more Jordan heads wouldn't of minded the fusion if it didn't come out in all these models. JB is obviously smart for keeping them going.

There has to be someone out there that has every pair of fusions. I'd like to see that collection.

 

[mp23]

MMA? I think that's stretching things a bit, even for a company as big as Nike. That's like them hopping on the rollerblade train in 2001, then realizing that it had already left the station once they got on it.

 

[gijace]

Originally Posted by MP23

MMA? I think that's stretching things a bit, even for a company as big as Nike. That's like them hopping on the rollerblade train in 2001, then realizing that it had already left the station once they got on it.

well that's what I have in mind.. MMA doesn't have the same following as to what Boxing has, and hype is not still there.
even if they do that, I hope they should have marketed GSP/Anderson Silva, MMA's P4P just like when they promote Pacman in boxing..

 

[the12the22the32the4]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Well yeah, that's what i've been saying all along. Not really pointing out anything. What I was saying with my last post was more Jordan heads wouldn't of minded the fusion if it didn't come out in all these models. JB is obviously smart for keeping them going.

There has to be someone out there that has every pair of fusions. I'd like to see that collection.


The thing is, it doesn't matter if "Jordanheads" or "Sneakerheads" are offended by/perplexed by/ambivalent to the fusions; JB makes them and they appeal to a certain segment of consumers, which in this case is clearly a large segment who is willing to spend $150 on a mash up casual shoe but isn't willing to pay $180 for their top performance shoe. Bottom line is that more people are interested in the hybrid "lifestyle" products than the new releases and even large amounts of the retros (with notable exceptions).

So really, it's the consumers who drive what JB produces and clearly very few "Jordanheads" are negatively impacted by the fusions, in fact, it seems like a lot of them are buying more fusions than they are the team/retro JB products. 

 

[rockdeep]

whats funny about the Jordan Fusion thing is that is what solely Nike's idea to do as a part of the AF25 thing and Jordans Anniversary. Jordan gave that thing the No... then later said he wanted control and proceeds... So basically that got jacked and taken over.

Was it a good call on MJs part? Hell yes.

As far as MMA not being mainstream yet.. Im not sure what would be considered mainstream for a sport that can have a Pay per View ONCE A MONTH successfully. Id call it good and or a Cult following if not Successful. How many Clothing lines spawned from MMA teams and all that?

I'd think Nike could take MMA MORE mainstream if nothing else than getting behind some of the stars of MMA in the states and in Asia. Just think , they can continue to give product to whatever stars there are and sell Product to the masses, as far as Gloves, Gear and Casual use clothing....

I think a minimal investment can bring Nike millions if they jumped in with both feet. Look how they do all other sports they havent been truly invested in. They buy a company to place their logo on and go from there.

 

[crazy ebw]

IMO, MMA is definitely about as mainstream as it can get. I wouldn't mind Nike doing something at all with it. AS long as they are serious about it.

 

[flintgrey]

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

JB makes them and they appeal to a certain segment of consumers, which in this case is clearly a large segment who is willing to spend $150 on a mash up casual shoe but isn't willing to pay $180 for their top performance shoe. Bottom line is that more people are interested in the hybrid "lifestyle" products than the new releases and even large amounts of the retros (with notable exceptions).

So really, it's the consumers who drive what JB produces and clearly very few "Jordanheads" are negatively impacted by the fusions, in fact, it seems like a lot of them are buying more fusions than they are the team/retro JB products. 

QFT.

In the past, Jordan products were cutting edge and the example for quality.  Now, Brand Jordan is selling products based on this notion (exploiting is the correct term).

I'll hand it to JB; if Joe Average consumer wants to buy a mash-up with bits & pieces of his/her favorite Jordan and spend $150 in doing so, who can stop them?  They took an urban staple (AF1) and have it cues of Jordan.  In a sense, it's brilliant.  To play devil's advocate, I'd say I'd rather see 5 Jordan IV Retro colorways & 5 AJFIV colorways than see 10 Jordan IV Retro colorways.

Originally Posted by MP23

MMA? Ithink that's stretching things a bit, even for a company as big asNike. That's like them hopping on the rollerblade train in 2001, thenrealizing that it had already left the station once they got on it.

MMA has been around a long while...and the success of the UFC has been solely strategic (and successful) marketing.  I don't think it's a stretch to fathom Nike dipping into this market.  Hell, they sponsor boxers (currently Pac Man, in the past Roy Jones Jr) so it goes to show Nike will spend money on any sport if there is a market. 

 

[3onpar5]

If NIKE got behind a few good young UFC guys (not like Kimbo, I like him but I mean real MMA guys) they could do a training shoe like the new SC trainer or free, clothing all that stuff. One of the things that bothers me about the MMA companies is they all do the same thing. THey all have the fancy dragons or skulls or whatever. Very loud and "scary" I would like to see NIKE treat and market these guys as athletes. Anyone that has seen a countdown show to the UFC will tell you they work out harder than any other athlete and NIKE could market that better than anyone could ever think of. But they have to get in on it now.

 

[rockdeep]

I agree Nike couldn't jack the swagger or style of the currect Ed Hardy esque clothes out now with everyone else with swirls and tat like designs. They have enough of that on their shoes..

 

[3onpar5]

Well played Rock...well played

 

[mp23]

Well if y'all think that Nike can do MMA, that's cool. I just don't see any of that stuff selling. It's not like Jordan Brand made a killing on Roy Jones' apparel or shoes or Nike making loot off of Pacman. Plus it would be even harder for them to break into the sport than SB. Nike had a very difficult time breaking into that because of how niche it is. The same thing with MMA; that is still very niche, mainstream, but a niche category. Plus seeing a Swoosh on a glove in a MMA ring would just be odd to me.

 

[rockdeep]

^^
MP I dont think it would as hard as you think. Nike either throws Product or Money at the situation to make it work. If the Product doesnt sell, they pick an athlete who can legitimize it and there you have it. Some Cultures like Skating thought goin the way of Nike was like selling out... but when it comes down to it. Having your own sneaker is still having your own sneaker.

Nike could very well get behind a new MMA star every year and that would keep Nike relevant every year within the Sport. Just my opinion.

 

[grizzla1024]

just watched the Human Chain commercial and I was shocked to see Rampage in it, is Nike going to venture in MMA?


Nike already have their 10AC range for Caol Uno. So MMA is not so new to them.

 

[3onpar5]

Just imagine the "Human Chain" commercial (that style anyway) with all MMA fighters. Show how they train, how hard they train. Wandy Silva trains with a scuba mask on to restrict and control his oxygen for crying out loud. Put him in a compression top and some SC trainers and thats a hit. Will he sell as many shoes? Not to hoops fans, but to MMA fans he might. MP is right about the SB analogy though. NIKE cant just go in and throw a swoosh on some gloves and everything else that would turn MMA fans off. But if you focused on the "training" aspect of it I think you would have something. Tell the MMA fans hey when you work out we got the serious gear for you to work out.

 

[dtb00201]

all i care about is the fact that nike is making GOOD new shoes again....for the first time in about 5 or 6 years i have actually been excited about new designs

 

[archeever]

Nike also sponsored Yoshihiro Akiyama. Hes appeared in a few Nike Pro print ads in Japan, and he also appeared in the Nike Breath commercial a few years back. As someone said earlier, they also work with Caol Uno. So Nike has done a decent amount overseas with MMA.

 

[3onpar5]

NIKE's current tag line for NIKE Pro is "Prepare for Battle" Is there a better fitted saying for MMA?

 

[rockdeep]

Hell.. I think its better than UAs "we must protect this house" Speaking of which.. if UA was to stretch themselves thin in a right direction.. THIS would have been the route to go. Smaller company with a growing sport?

It just Makes sense.

 

[archeever]

UA is doing some things in MMA. I think they signed Georges St. Pierre, the UFC WW champ. They are also doing MMA stuff overseas. They also sponsor Shinya Aoki, a lightweight champ in Japan.

 

[penpen]

Also of note is that Tatsuya Kawajiri, formerly of Pride, now of Dream and K-1 was promoting Nike last I checked. I dont remember where I saw it (might have been Japan's Nike site) but memory serves, he was promoting Nike Pro gear for training. Hell he was even the store manager for a day at the new Harajuku flagship store last year around Thanksgiving according to the Dream website.

 

[tokes99]

Originally Posted by MP23

Well if y'all think that Nike can do MMA, that's cool. I just don't see any of that stuff selling. It's not like Jordan Brand made a killing on Roy Jones' apparel or shoes or Nike making loot off of Pacman. Plus it would be even harder for them to break into the sport than SB. Nike had a very difficult time breaking into that because of how niche it is. The same thing with MMA; that is still very niche, mainstream, but a niche category. Plus seeing a Swoosh on a glove in a MMA ring would just be odd to me.

really? why not? jordan/nike making boxing gear/apparel is probably more about brand association/visibility than selling the specific product, which i would think would be rather small production runs anyway...& it probably pays off too, nike's popularity in the philipines predates their relationship with pacquioa, but that guy is a phenomenon over there; not to mention being regarded as one of the best fighters in the world...the thinking is, for a brand that makes it name in performance, the sport is irrelevant to certain extent; its about having the best athletes (ideally known in their respective sports) in the world wearing your product(s)...that stuff matters. i think it a be a while before mma gets mainstream enough that we'll see mma fighters explicitly featured in marketing in states, because as fast as its growing it still has yet to address the "problem" it has with its image (at least how it is perceived) as a brutally violent sport (much moreso than boxing)

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by dtb00201

all i care about is the fact that nike is making GOOD new shoes again....for the first time in about 5 or 6 years i have actually been excited about new designs

I hate the lunar running series, but the designs are all amazing imo. The LunarElite is one of the smoothest looking shoes i've seen in a while.