Let's talk about Kobe's legacy......try your hardest to be objective...

[henz0]

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances

 

[651akathepaul]

^Pippen was nowhere near what a Shaq or Kobe was....Makes no sense.

 

[kb8sandiego]

Originally Posted by got shoes

Originally Posted by KB8sandiego

Originally Posted by got shoes

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

I have a question, if he DOES win another ring, where will he rack in the pantheon of all time greats? And what will the haters be able to say then?

real talk. if he win one more you can close the book on his legacy.

Yeah, but as far as greatness goes, I'd still put him behind Magic and Kareem even if he did win another chip.

i always find that funny. People say he is one of the greatest to ever play, especially how they compare him and MJ. But you ask for your Top 5 Lakers and he is not on the list. Kinda ironic if you ask me

Fam, I didn't say he wasn't top 5.

My list would be:

1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. West

 

[jville819]

Are people really gonna say Shaq is a better Laker than Kobe

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by KB8sandiego

Originally Posted by got shoes

Originally Posted by KB8sandiego

Originally Posted by got shoes

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

I have a question, if he DOES win another ring, where will he rack in the pantheon of all time greats? And what will the haters be able to say then?

real talk. if he win one more you can close the book on his legacy.

Yeah, but as far as greatness goes, I'd still put him behind Magic and Kareem even if he did win another chip.

i always find that funny. People say he is one of the greatest to ever play, especially how they compare him and MJ. But you ask for your Top 5 Lakers and he is not on the list. Kinda ironic if you ask me

Fam, I didn't say he wasn't top 5.

My list would be:

1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. West

i got you cuz. i was just saying the majority of people including media and fans, wouldn't have Kobe in a Top 5 Laker list. But also comparing and sayinghe is better than MJ.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by jville819

Are people really gonna say Shaq is a better Laker than Kobe

Kobe will have the better Laker career due to longevity and stats, but gimme a prime Shaq over prime Kobe

.

 

[craftsy21]

I brought up the 2004 finals because the Lakers didn't win BECAUSE of Kobe, and his attempt to be the man. He grew tired of hearing the fact that he was nothing more than Shaq's sidekick in the three-peat, so he gambled by hogging the ball and get one finals MVP, but instead he failed.

How do you people say stuff like this with a straight face? There is not truth in this statement whatsoever, it's complete hearsay and you're passingit off like it's factual. Just stop - there was a lot of things wrong with that 2004 lakers team.

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances
Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot likeKobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won becauseof shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and viceversa.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by ericberry14


when has mike carried a team to do something great?

I think you dont know the meaning of the word carry.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

I brought up the 2004 finals because the Lakers didn't win BECAUSE of Kobe, and his attempt to be the man. He grew tired of hearing the fact that he was nothing more than Shaq's sidekick in the three-peat, so he gambled by hogging the ball and get one finals MVP, but instead he failed.

How do you people say stuff like this with a straight face? There is not truth in this statement whatsoever, it's complete hearsay and you're passing it off like it's factual. Just stop - there was a lot of things wrong with that 2004 lakers team.

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances
Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.




So then if the Cavs win it all this year do you think Lebron is the undisputed best?....Considering he doesn't even have anyone on his team that is Top 50in the league RIGHT NOW...Save for maybe MAYBE Mo.

 

[0cks]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

30-50 years from now...Kobe the most underrated great ever?

Rationalize with me here. Kobe in due time will be squished between MJ and then "most likely" Lebron. Don't much care for the hypotheticals, but it's interesting to think that if his career spans between these two not to mention his time on top is arguable with the dominance of Shaq then Duncan, it is very possible that Kobe can get lost in the mix.

This year and years to come obviously have a lot to do with how we look at the past in the future, but his rings were, up to this point, only with Shaq. Lebron probably gets at least 2.

Co-sign

Fact of the matter is Shaq won rings in his prime, Kobe hasn't. When you win rings not even yet in your prime, it is expected that you get more when you reach it. Caron Butler and LO isn't THAT bad of a supporting cast to not make the playoffs. I can guarantee you Shaq in his prime goes deep in the playoffs with that team EASY!

Eh, that team was going to the playoffs till injuries killed them around January. Kobe went out with an ankle injury and LO had his shoulder messed up. Not to mention Vlade and Brian Grant were out practically the entire season

.

Well the previous year Kobe was out injured for more games and he had the whole Colorado thing going on, Malone barely played and Medvedenko was putting in most of the work at the 4. They went to the finals that year, Kobe tried to 'lead' them to the chip and was embarrassed by Prince. Shaq on the low still dominated while the offense was handed to Kobe, and the next year w/o Shaq they fail to make the playoffs...

I see where you're coming from (I'm still

@ Kobe for that Finals performance) but comparing the 04 to 05 roster is like night and day. Sure LO and Caron were nice, but the Lakers also had Chucky Atkins (career back up), Tierre Brown (has he been in the league since?), Jumaine Jones (below average), Chris Mihm (serviceable), Sasha Vujacic (rookie), Brian Cook and Luke Walton (erratic second year players), Slava Medvedenko(

), Devean George (decent) and like I mentioned earlier the injured Vlade Divac and Brian Grant. Not to mention Rudy T. had to resign in the middle of the season.

I'll stop there because I'm having horrible, horrible flashbacks

.

I can see where you are coming from, him throwing his teammates under the bus and taking an entire franchise hostage just doesn't sit wellwith me. I'm still surprised Laker fans are OK with it, but its whatever

 

[henz0]

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.



I understand what you're trying to say...... I totally agree with not being able to win without a top 50 player by your side.. but Mike CARRIED THE TEAM(s)just like Shaq CARRIED those laker championship teams. Which is why I said all my hate for kobe would go away if they win now because he has all the piecesaround him to be able to CARRY that team to a championship.

 

[bigmike23]

how is wilt a better laker then kobe? he only played what 5 years with the lakers?

IMO its stupid to say kobe only won because of shaq. name me one superstar that has won alone? NONE. and kobe had a KEY part in them winning from been the 4thQTR closer since shaq couldnt hit FT,locking down the other teams best player.

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by henz0

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances

not comparing the two at all... look at both duos

Jordan & Pippen/Kobe & Shaq

What exactly did Michael Jordan do without Scottie Pippen?

what exactly did Kobe do without Shaq?

nobody is saying Kobe=Jordan & Pippen=Shaq... just comparing what each Jordan did without Pippen & what Kobe did without Shaq

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

I brought up the 2004 finals because the Lakers didn't win BECAUSE of Kobe, and his attempt to be the man. He grew tired of hearing the fact that he was nothing more than Shaq's sidekick in the three-peat, so he gambled by hogging the ball and get one finals MVP, but instead he failed.

How do you people say stuff like this with a straight face? There is not truth in this statement whatsoever, it's complete hearsay and you're passing it off like it's factual. Just stop - there was a lot of things wrong with that 2004 lakers team.

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.




So then if the Cavs win it all this year do you think Lebron is the undisputed best?....Considering he doesn't even have anyone on his team that is Top 50 in the league RIGHT NOW...Save for maybe MAYBE Mo.
No - not undisputed best after 1 title, but it certainly vaults him up the list of great ones pretty quickly considering he literally has nobodyaround him right now that will factor into the all-time greats list, as far as any of us can see right now.

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by ericberry14


when has mike carried a team to do something great?

I think you dont know the meaning of the word carry.

once again... when has mike carried a team to do something great?

if you look at the context it was carry by himself...

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Are u really comparing Shaq to Pippen?

Kobe starred as pippen in those finals appearances

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.

thank you...

 

[651akathepaul]

^ Just wondering.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by henz0

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.

I understand what you're trying to say...... I totally agree with not being able to win without a top 50 player by your side.. but Mike CARRIED THE TEAM(s) just like Shaq CARRIED those laker championship teams. Which is why I said all my hate for kobe would go away if they win now because he has all the pieces around him to be able to CARRY that team to a championship.

Nah you're right, on those three-peats Pip and Kobe definitely played second-fiddle.. but i don't think anyone would argue that Kobe wasin his prime during those runs either.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by ericberry14


when has mike carried a team to do something great?

I think you dont know the meaning of the word carry.

once again... when has mike carried a team to do something great?

if you look at the context it was carry by himself...

No one in the history of man has carried a team by themself. But like Henz said Mike carried the bulls no question. Shaq carried the Lakers. Duncan carried theSpurs. You're thinking carry means putting it all on one persons back. No it doesnt mean that but If you ask anybody who was the best player hands down onthose championship teams 100% will say Shaq and Jordan. No one will say Kobe or Pippen.

Edit: Just like if Lakers win this year Kobe carried his team to a ship not Gasol. If Cavs win Lebron carried not Mo williams. If Nuggets win Melo. If MagicDwight. This is of course if they play in the finals how they played in the playoffs. Cause Rip carried Pistons to the finals but Billups took control butDetroit was more of a puzzl piece total team effort so that dont count

 

[mister friendly]

Kobe still have 5 great years left in him. So the legacy talk til then. But he is defintely one of the all time greats. Probably the best pure scorer of alltime maybe til Lebron knocks him off that title. Kobe is the awesome.

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by henz0

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.

I understand what you're trying to say...... I totally agree with not being able to win without a top 50 player by your side.. but Mike CARRIED THE TEAM(s) just like Shaq CARRIED those laker championship teams. Which is why I said all my hate for kobe would go away if they win now because he has all the pieces around him to be able to CARRY that team to a championship.



again kobe was that lakers team 4th QTR closer he carried that team just as much as shaq did

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by henz0

Fact remains - what did Jordan accomplish before he had a top 50 all time player by his side? MJ's career pre-pippen looks a lot like Kobe's post shaq, so far.

It takes more than 1 superstar, even if it's the best of all time, to put a dynasty together. if people are going to continue saying Kobe only won because of shaq, you've gotta give jordan the same treatment.. neither MJ nor Shaq could've done it without players of Kobe and Pippens caliber, and vice versa.

I understand what you're trying to say...... I totally agree with not being able to win without a top 50 player by your side.. but Mike CARRIED THE TEAM(s) just like Shaq CARRIED those laker championship teams. Which is why I said all my hate for kobe would go away if they win now because he has all the pieces around him to be able to CARRY that team to a championship.

how did mike carry the team if he needed a top 50 player of all time along side him to win a championship... and lets not forget that MJ also hadRodman, one of the best defenders & rebounders of all time...

i swear people forget that mike was surrounded by talent every time he won a championship...

 

[henz0]

I'm glad we can agree

But, that finals that the lakers lost, shaq was looking a little washed up and it was Kobes time to step up and they took the L. Took the L last yr against theceltics, and like I said he wasnt playing with BUMS so he's supposed to carry them over the top reguardless ofwho they're playing. Now if they dont winit this yr I definitely dont have any respect for him considering he has arguably the best overall team in the league

 

[statis22]

Neither Shaq or Kobe should take a backseat to Pippen

Pippen will always be a "Robin"

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Originally Posted by ericberry14


when has mike carried a team to do something great?

I think you dont know the meaning of the word carry.

once again... when has mike carried a team to do something great?

if you look at the context it was carry by himself...

No one in the history of man has carried a team by themself. But like Henz said Mike carried the bulls no question. Shaq carried the Lakers. Duncan carried the Spurs. You're thinking carry means putting it all on one persons back. No it doesnt mean that but If you ask anybody who was the best player hands down on those championship teams 100% will say Shaq and Jordan. No one will say Kobe or Pippen.

so then what do you mean carry... do you mean who was the best player on that team at the time... bcuz thats what it sounds like you'resaying...

not to mention people severely downplay Pippen/Rodman's contributions to those Bulls championships...

just like people are severly downplaing Kobe contribution to the laker championships...

 

[651akathepaul]

I'm gonna say...Jordan MADE Pippen Top 50 at the time...Pippen is not in the Top 50 now. Both Kobe and Shaq are...Which leaves me wondering what the heckyou guys are arguing about.