Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. * S7 Premieres May27

[everysingletime]

I get that Fury told them lies yes but the main reason why the Avengers were put together was because Loki had the Tesseract, which was what they told every Avenger, and that was truthful. If it was someone else who had it, Shield may have just tried to get it on their own.

 

[Ja's 2¢]

Could real shield be that group of people in avengers that ordered the jet to go to NY against Fury's orders?

Those guys died in CA: WS, I think the only one that survived is the chick that BW disguised as. It's a possibility though that those that were killed were replaced.

I still haven't seen CA: WS or Dark World. Props on the info though!

 

[rfx45]

Again that is partly true but that wasn't the whole reason. When he was talking to Cap he said it was a source of sustainable energy, you think if he would have said, "well Cap we were making weapons out of it because of Thor and you know other threats from the Galaxy!" that Cap would have willingly and easily joined him?

It's like one of those "well I didn't technically lie because I didn't tell you because you didn't ask" scenario. In the end it is still a lie. I mean it is also true that the tesseract could be a source of sustainable energy but that is not really what he intends to use it that way.

Before they even knew they were being manipulated by Loki (arguable that Loki is the one who actually formed the Avengers) Fury got called out on making weapons, Thor said it was that reason why Loki and his friends are coming because it meant they were ready for higher force of villains and then he admits that he was making the weapons because Thor appeared. You think if Fury honestly told Thor that secret that Thor would have easily handed Loki to Fury? If Thor knew that, don't you think he likely would have just tried to take Loki by himself and away from Shield? Again it was a lie why Thor was in the ship and with them in the first place, another "just because you didn't ask, I didn't lie" scenario. In the end, it is still a lie.

Could also apply to Banner and Stark, he told them some truth but not the whole truth but had they known it was because Fury was making weapons, they'd likely hesitate to help or just do it on their own, well Stark would, it's in his personality.

But again as I said, we are probably just seeing in different point of views.

 

[Master Zik]

If they stick with UU Fury's character I can definitely see him being such an a-hole that he'd have Coulson running one arm of SHIELD while he sets up another.

expound pls

Ultimate Fury is an a-hole. He has no problem screwing over friends for the "greater good", lying to them, hurting them, etc.

That Fury would lie to Coulson's face about him being the new director while he secretly bugged the entire place. He would've gave Coulson a fake toolbox to begin with.

 

[everysingletime]

Again that is partly true but that wasn't the whole reason. When he was talking to Cap he said it was a source of sustainable energy, you think if he would have said, "well Cap we were making weapons out of it because of Thor and you know other threats from the Galaxy!" that Cap would have willingly and easily joined him?

I think Cap would've still joined Fury regardless. For Cap it would've been a "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. Join Fury now and take the Tesseract from Loki and worry about Fury's plans for the Tesseract later.

It's like one of those "well I didn't technically lie because I didn't tell you because you didn't ask" scenario. laugh.gif In the end it is still a lie.

I'm not arguing that Fury isn't telling lies. I'm just saying that the formation of the Avengers wasn't based on a lie.

Before they even knew they were being manipulated by Loki (arguable that Loki is the one who actually formed the Avengers) Fury got called out on making weapons, Thor said it was that reason why Loki and his friends are coming because it meant they were ready for higher force of villains and then he admits that he was making the weapons because Thor appeared. You think if Fury honestly told Thor that secret that Thor would have easily handed Loki to Fury? If Thor knew that, don't you think he likely would have just tried to take Loki by himself and away from Shield?

Thor is an outlier. He was one of those Avengers that was just in the right place, right time during the movie. He was already working his own agenda, and tried to take Loki from Cap America and Iron Man from minute one. He was never recruited by anyone. He stuck around long enough at the helicarrier because he was curious along with everyone else about what was Loki's greater agenda. He probably would've taken Loki asap right after that scene where everyone was arguing yea, if it weren't for the fact that Hawkeye and company invaded the Helicarrier.

Could also apply to Banner and Stark, he told them some truth but not the whole truth but had they known it was because Fury was making weapons, they'd likely hesitate to help or just do it on their own, well Stark would, it's in his personality.

Stark never fully trusted Fury from minute 1. It's the reason why he had Jarvis hack the whole helicarrier to begin with. But despite his suspicions he had agreed to secure Loki (he went to Germany or wherever it was he joined Captain America) because again, Loki having the Tesseract is a more immediate problem than any ulterior agenda he suspected Shield to have.

arguable that Loki is the one who actually formed the Avengers

If you want to argue this, I have no problems with agreeing. I never argued that Shield was the one primarily responsible for bringing together the Avengers.

I just keep saying the Avengers wasn't created on a lie. Fury told many lies but the one truth he did tell mattered to the Avengers ( that Loki had the Tessearact)

If you want to interpret that as Loki actually formed the Avengers, ok - I'm not stopping you.

we are just seeing in different viewpoints

Yea, I agree. *sigh I don't really want to do a Zik - ish back and forth so I'm going to drop it here unless your next reply pisses me off or something laugh.gif
Edited by amel223 - Today at 8:52 pm

 

[Master Zik]

Honestly what you guys are arguing about is pretty trivial. I never seriously argue that type of stuff

Avengers forming was based on half-truths would be a compromise. The surface was the truth but below was lies.

 

[rfx45]

Like I said, the group would be more hesitant to join if Fury divulged all the details, I didn't necessarily mean they wouldn't join. With that said some events would have changed and other might have walked away from the group.

Cap may eventually join but he wouldn't be happy off the bat and he'll be more weary with everyone. Cap was already unhappy to hear that they had the teserract to begin with.

Stark didn't trust Fury to begin with so if he knew that he was making weapons from the get go, he wouldn't have boarded to begin with. Again if he knew about the teseract already and Furys weapons, he would have tried to pursue himself.

If Thor knew Fury was making weapons against his kind then he would have jetted and took Loki with him in an instant.

Banner was hesitant to help from the get go too, had Black Widow told him in the hut in India that Fury needs him to track down a massive power source to create weapons, he'd likely deny the invitation (at first).

It is Furys omission of the truth that kept the group from walking away in the start. To me, that is a lie. I understand if you do not see it as one. In the end it all worked out and had not for perfect timing of Hawkeyes attack, then they probably would have been beating each other to death inside the hellicarrier and there's be no Avengers because Furys lies were unraveling along with the group. And what united them again? More lies with Coulsons death.

 

[everysingletime]

Zik playing mediator and proposing compromises

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*edit

I'm just going to drop it man. We're close to arguing in circles.

In the end it all worked out and had not for perfect timing of Hawkeyes attack, then they probably would have been beating each other to death inside the hellicarrier and there's be no Avengers because Furys lies were unraveling along with the group

That would've been funny to see

 

[Master Zik]

Hey man, just saying the topic isn't THAT serious. Did the Avengers form based off of a lie or the truth? Meh, it's really a mix of both.

Did Fury not be 100% honest? Sure. Would that have changed things if he was? Probably.

I don't think either of you misunderstood the movie you watched that badly. It's just a semantics thing where yall are almost arguing two different things.

The **** I be on though tends to be a bit more than that depending on the topic. Like when I was arguing about the use of black superheroes by DC in comics and movies. I feel strongly about that in general, so you're gonna get a thorough reply or if you just make up bull **** about who Marvel chooses to make their movies. I'll always call the bull **** out

 

[rfx45]

Yah we just have different perspectives.

 

[tay1]

Ward ain't playin boy

 

[Ja's 2¢]

Aye skye clone was looked way hotter than current state skye

And Karla wasnt too shabby herself

 

[tay1]

Coulson wig getting pushed back. Dude may be bald next time he see the Avengers.

 

[rfx45]

Is it just me or I could have sworn they had a picture of the Blackbird hanging in that conference room of the Real Shield?

 

[tay1]

Bobbi been flip-flopping all season. I lowkey like here character more than BW.

 

[Master Zik]

Is it just me or I could have sworn they had a picture of the Blackbird hanging in that conference room of the Real Shield?

You're seeing things

 

[rfx45]

I mean tell me I am not crazy? Got to be at least a homage or a jab at Fox or something.


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[jumpmanpro97]

damn so real shield and coulson shield still think nick fury is dead? and the avengers think coulson is dead? I wonder if any of this gets revealed to either side this season. I guess "real shield" didn't like fury's secret ways.

 

[Ja's 2¢]

damn didn't even think of that connection with Fox, just thought since they were on a carrier, they just put a picture of the sr 71 because it's an amazing part of aviation history. Good catch!

 

[jumpmanpro97]

vibranium name drop

 

[rfx45]

And Hulk fist print.

 

[CP1708]

Really loving the direction they're heading. Started slow season 1, but they've been money since.

That Neo-earthquake bullet stop tree destroyer move was bad ***.

 

[Master Zik]

Ep was good. Fight scenes are getting a bit better too. Skye put in some work.

@ that earthquake wave shattering the tree and a dagger of wood impaling that suit from "real shield".

damn so real shield and coulson shield still think nick fury is dead? and the avengers think coulson is dead? I wonder if any of this gets revealed to either side this season. I guess "real shield" didn't like fury's secret ways.

Maybe I'm mistaken and made up the scene in my head but I'm pretty sure Coulson knows Fury is still alive. Not sure about ppl like May though. The whole reason he became director and made this new SHIELD after the Hydra debacle was cuz Fury told him to and gave him that small box to start (I'm still not clear what else value the box has other than containing a bunch of secrets).

Everything else you said is on point though.

This "real shield" need to stop all their *****ing and moaning just cuz one of Fury's orders almost had them kill a helicarrier or w/e of SHIELD agents to stop Hydra. Sometimes you gotta hit the self destruct button.

 

[rfx45]

Yah Coulson knows Fury is alive.

 

[jumpmanpro97]

oh wow so that wood did impale that agent. I really don't remember Coulson knowing Fury is alive. Anyone know what episode that was?