my mind is blown right now

[mags on fire]

In any other thread sillyputty is mad cool, but as soon as there's a religion thread, I just start to hate em.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Lalph Rauren

Yikes, I swear I feel like most of ya just mad at AMUSED BY god

FIXED

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

The Bible shouldn't be taken literally. It's a piece of literature and should be treated as such. By all. Believers and nonbelievers. I mean, let's be serious, there's no way in hell a 150 hundred year old Abraham could father a son or it took Noah 300 years to build the ark.

Except the notion that you think jesus was always a stand up dude.

Dude is like a reformed guy in the front of the church telling others how he "used" to get down...right.

I wouldn't go that far. Dude was a kid and like any other kid that had these magical abilities to do crazy $%$@, he did it. Plus didn't he reverse all, or at the very least, most of the stuff he did? Need to reread those passages.

Whether we like it or not, all religions are essentially the same and have been derived and based upon each other since the origin of all mythologies. That shouldn't take away from one particular religion and cast one in a higher light than an other, although, that is something that Christians have unfortunately been doing since Idk, long +#@ time ago.

wait, I thought it was known that you weren't supposed to take Genesis literally

Some atheists and believers are too ignorant to that because of how much it was instilled in us as children, whether from attending Catholic institutions or having strict relatives.

Umm...  It has to be taken literally in Christianity. 

If the story of Adam and Even never happened, the original sin never happened.

If the original sin never happened, Jesus would have never needed to come down to earth and die for us.

If we don't have the original sin, we don't need Jesus!

Even if it's not to be taken literally, how could God get such elementary astronomy facts so wrong? 


True, I guess I should have said the Bible should be looked at through a literary lens and not oversimplified to fit basic human criterion since through metaphor its meant to transcend human life.
To the bolded, maybe because the concept of astronomy is man-made and therefore what seems wrong to us could be right to God or a non-issue.

 

[undefinedinc]

I swear a religious thread on Niketalk this dude silly putty is like this

Why are you so mad at God and Christianity that you have to be in EVERY thread with essay like posts?

 

[nikeairforce1]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

The Bible shouldn't be taken literally. It's a piece of literature and should be treated as such. By all. Believers and nonbelievers. I mean, let's be serious, there's no way in hell a 150 hundred year old Abraham could father a son or it took Noah 300 years to build the ark.



I wouldn't go that far. Dude was a kid and like any other kid that had these magical abilities to do crazy $%$@, he did it. Plus didn't he reverse all, or at the very least, most of the stuff he did? Need to reread those passages.

Whether we like it or not, all religions are essentially the same and have been derived and based upon each other since the origin of all mythologies. That shouldn't take away from one particular religion and cast one in a higher light than an other, although, that is something that Christians have unfortunately been doing since Idk, long +#@ time ago.
Some atheists and believers are too ignorant to that because of how much it was instilled in us as children, whether from attending Catholic institutions or having strict relatives.

Umm...  It has to be taken literally in Christianity. 

If the story of Adam and Even never happened, the original sin never happened.

If the original sin never happened, Jesus would have never needed to come down to earth and die for us.

If we don't have the original sin, we don't need Jesus!

Even if it's not to be taken literally, how could God get such elementary astronomy facts so wrong? 

True, I guess I should have said the Bible should be looked at through a literary lens and not oversimplified to fit basic human criterion since through metaphor its meant to transcend human life.
To the bolded, maybe because the concept of astronomy is man-made and therefore what seems wrong to us could be right to God or a non-issue.

Do you think atheists think the Bible or Genesis is literal?  Of course not.  It is the Christians who are supposed to take Genesis as literal.  Or else, their whole religion comes tumbling down.

This isn't even about taking Genesis literally.  This is about the Bible teaching things that are factually false.  How can the Bible be the infallible word of God if there are things that are factually false?  God doesn't have his own truth, nor do we.  There's just one truth. 

In Genesis, Godly created Earth first, then the stars. Let's not take that literally.  What else can it mean then?  It's not one of those things that can't viewed as literal or allegorically.  You can't extract any other kind of meaning from it.  God is either lying, or he has it wrong.

In reality, stars were created long before there were ever planets.

It's obvious that whoever wrote Genesis and the Bible had no knowledge of astronomy and cosmology.  So either God doesn't know it, or it wasn't written by God.

Originally Posted by undefinedinc

I swear a religious thread on Niketalk this dude silly putty is like this

Why are you so mad at God and Christianity that you have to be in EVERY thread with essay like posts?

Even if sillyputty was mad, does it make his points any less valid?  Of course not.

Rather than bringing up irrelevant things to divert attention away from his points, address or refute them.

 

[pacmagic2002]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by Wr

The sun is how we on earth measure time. Every star out there is the sun to other planets. It's all relative to where you are at and your dimension in the universe. I think there is something like a sun prime out there somewhere......

[sup][/sup]

[sup]3[/sup] And God said, “Let there be light,

 

[undefinedinc]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

Umm...  It has to be taken literally in Christianity. 

If the story of Adam and Even never happened, the original sin never happened.

If the original sin never happened, Jesus would have never needed to come down to earth and die for us.

If we don't have the original sin, we don't need Jesus!

Even if it's not to be taken literally, how could God get such elementary astronomy facts so wrong? 

True, I guess I should have said the Bible should be looked at through a literary lens and not oversimplified to fit basic human criterion since through metaphor its meant to transcend human life.
To the bolded, maybe because the concept of astronomy is man-made and therefore what seems wrong to us could be right to God or a non-issue.

Do you think atheists think the Bible or Genesis is literal?  Of course not.  It is the Christians who are supposed to take Genesis as literal.  Or else, their whole religion comes tumbling down.

This isn't even about taking Genesis literally.  This is about the Bible teaching things that are factually false.  How can the Bible be the infallible word of God if there are things that are factually false?  God doesn't have his own truth, nor do we.  There's just one truth. 

In Genesis, Godly created Earth first, then the stars. Let's not take that literally.  What else can it mean then?  It's not one of those things that can't viewed as literal or allegorically.  You can't extract any other kind of meaning from it.  God is either lying, or he has it wrong.

In reality, stars were created long before there were ever planets.

It's obvious that whoever wrote Genesis and the Bible had no knowledge of astronomy and cosmology.  So either God doesn't know it, or it wasn't written by God.

Originally Posted by undefinedinc

I swear a religious thread on Niketalk this dude silly putty is like this

Why are you so mad at God and Christianity that you have to be in EVERY thread with essay like posts?

Even if sillyputty was mad, does it make his points any less valid?  Of course not.

Rather than bringing up irrelevant things to divert attention away from his points, address or refute them.

Lol I definitely have better things to do than argue with fools

 

[Mound Raised]

Same turds, different toilet

 

[flipnkraut]

Ezekiel 23:19

Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals – as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.

 

[cafinest23]

Religion conversation on NT? No thanks.

 

[young street86]

Originally Posted by Gex The Damaja

My teacher told us that the creation story is a story(religion teacher). Homies goes up to him after class:

H:You don't believe in the creation story?
T: I believe a lot of the stories are used to inspire faith
H: SO YOU DONT BELIEVE HUH?
T:

I believe in God not that story
H: And here i was thinking you believed, you're a fake. I use to respect you.
T:

I went to a Catholic School growing up and a nun told me that as well. Blew my mind. Makes you look at the stuff in the Bible a different way. I believe in God but I do not take everything in the Bible for fact. For example, I do not believe the Jonas and the whale story. 

 

[fro b giant]

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He
doesn't, does he?

My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed
to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of
water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er... yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student: "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there
evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?"

The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God
created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our
works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is
there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do
they exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?

There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace
in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt
your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God
for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that,
son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem
science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if
it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed
to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed?
Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.
"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity
and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To
view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just
the absence of it."
"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he
realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion , sir?

Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the
commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain?

No one appears to have done so.

So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due
respect, sir.

So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your
lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student,
his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists
with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.

It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the
world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least
it does not exist unto itself.

Evil is simply the absence of God . It is just like darkness and
cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart.

It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness
that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

 

[shorty doo wop]

professor got owned

 

[jfaceproducer]

lol if the bible is the "word of god" it should be plain to understand to all. There should be NO "interpretations" its either FACT or OPINION. You can't say "oh but he really didn't mean 24 hours" the hell is that? 

 
I don't understand how people can defend something to the death that they're not even 100% sure of. You give your opinion of a what a passage means to you, as far as you can understand it, and then defend it as if its Truth. And this is what EVERY religious person does. 

This thread is just one of the many examples contradictions within the "Holy" book. If the G man wanted us to understand his message, he would of wrote it himself, and not send a man to write it. Now a days, we can't even trust our next door neighbors, but we want to trust literature written centuries ago by a group of old geezers who claimed to have either seen god, spoken with god, or received divine inspiration when writing. man smh...humans make me mad lol....but go ahead believe what you want. you gotta believe in something.....SOMETHING...something!! 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by JFaceproducer

lol if the bible is the "word of god" it should be plain to understand to all. There should be NO "interpretations" its either FACT or OPINION. You can't say "oh but he really didn't mean 24 hours" the hell is that? 

 
I don't understand how people can defend something to the death that they're not even 100% sure of. You give your opinion of a what a passage means to you, as far as you can understand it, and then defend it as if its Truth. And this is what EVERY religious person does. 

This thread is just one of the many examples contradictions within the "Holy" book. If the G man wanted us to understand his message, he would of wrote it himself, and not send a man to write it. Now a days, we can't even trust our next door neighbors, but we want to trust literature written centuries ago by a group of old geezers who claimed to have either seen god, spoken with god, or received divine inspiration when writing. man smh...humans make me mad lol....but go ahead believe what you want. you gotta believe in something.....SOMETHING...something!! 

QFT notice how when religious people's arguments fall apart they start reaching for allegorical meaning to crap in their religious scriptures


Nah they didn't mean it like that, it was symbolic-eff outta here with that

How can something be the infallible word of God when people can't even decide on what the futz it means?

 

[wren32]

Originally Posted by Wr

The sun is how we on earth measure time. Every star out there is the sun to other planets. It's all relative to where you are at and your dimension in the universe. I think there is something like a sun prime out there somewhere......

So let me get this straight... "God" created the rest of the universe before earth and then suddenly decided to make earth and our sun at a different time? Doubtful

 

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by Aquatic Barefoot

[DMX voice Here we go again /DMX voice]

terrible code is terrible

 

[thejrob]

 

[jfaceproducer]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He
doesn't, does he?

My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed
to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of
water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er... yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student: "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there
evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?"

The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God
created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our
works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is
there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do
they exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?

There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace
in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt
your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God
for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that,
son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem
science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if
it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed
to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed?
Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.
"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity
and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To
view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just
the absence of it."
"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he
realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion , sir?

Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the
commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain?

No one appears to have done so.

So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due
respect, sir.

So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your
lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student,
his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists
with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.

It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the
world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least
it does not exist unto itself.

Evil is simply the absence of God . It is just like darkness and
cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart.

It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness
that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

He is right...god did not create evil.
God told Abraham to kill his own son (as he eventually killed his own, Jeebus).

God did not accept Cain's offering of fruits and veggies, and instead praised Abel for killing a lamb as a sacrifice. 

God killed Egypt's first borns

God told Saul to kill innocent men, women, infants and animals (God ordered so much slaying that I'm not even going to waste my time to dig them all up. feel free to read for yourself)

The most notorious of them all to me, God cursed the seeds of Adam and Eve (which is all of us) because of THEIR original sin. So we're automatically born sinners???

God definitely did not create evil....He IS just that.

 

[goukiteg]

Originally Posted by JFaceproducer

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He
doesn't, does he?

My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed
to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of
water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er... yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student: "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there
evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?"

The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God
created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our
works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is
there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do
they exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?

There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace
in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt
your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God
for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that,
son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem
science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the
opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if
it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed
to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed?
Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.
"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity
and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To
view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just
the absence of it."
"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young
man, yes, of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he
realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion , sir?

Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the
commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain?

No one appears to have done so.

So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due
respect, sir.

So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your
lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student,
his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists
with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.

It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the
world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least
it does not exist unto itself.

Evil is simply the absence of God . It is just like darkness and
cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart.

It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness
that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

He is right...god did not create evil.
God told Abraham to kill his own son (as he eventually killed his own, Jeebus).

God did not accept Cain's offering of fruits and veggies, and instead praised Abel for killing a lamb as a sacrifice. 

God killed Egypt's first borns

God told Saul to kill innocent men, women, infants and animals (God ordered so much slaying that I'm not even going to waste my time to dig them all up. feel free to read for yourself)

The most notorious of them all to me, God cursed the seeds of Adam and Eve (which is all of us) because of THEIR original sin. So we're automatically born sinners???

God definitely did not create evil....He IS just that.

Its semantics.
Good is the absence of evil.

Evil is the absences of good.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by JFaceproducer

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

He is right...god did not create evil.
God told Abraham to kill his own son (as he eventually killed his own, Jeebus).

God did not accept Cain's offering of fruits and veggies, and instead praised Abel for killing a lamb as a sacrifice. 

God killed Egypt's first borns

God told Saul to kill innocent men, women, infants and animals (God ordered so much slaying that I'm not even going to waste my time to dig them all up. feel free to read for yourself)

The most notorious of them all to me, God cursed the seeds of Adam and Eve (which is all of us) because of THEIR original sin. So we're automatically born sinners???

God definitely did not create evil....He IS just that.

Like I've been saying saying, God and the Devil are one in the same

 

[koudie from brooklyn]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by JFaceproducer

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

He is right...god did not create evil.
God told Abraham to kill his own son (as he eventually killed his own, Jeebus).

God did not accept Cain's offering of fruits and veggies, and instead praised Abel for killing a lamb as a sacrifice. 

God killed Egypt's first borns

God told Saul to kill innocent men, women, infants and animals (God ordered so much slaying that I'm not even going to waste my time to dig them all up. feel free to read for yourself)

The most notorious of them all to me, God cursed the seeds of Adam and Eve (which is all of us) because of THEIR original sin. So we're automatically born sinners???

God definitely did not create evil....He IS just that.

Like I've been saying saying, God and the Devil are one in the same

whoa .. take it easy there guys, blow my mind, one at a time.. i cant handle all of this info at once. i feel like im about to explode !!

 

[theekinqq]

Say god didn't necessarily create evil. he still created us knowing that our very first human crature would sin and thus make us all suffer.
If you were the only person and you knew that the child you have will be corrupt and destroy the rest of your children? no, you probably wouldnt, but god did just that.
he created satan knowing beforehand that he would cause evil in the world.

 

[sillyputty]

Fro B Giant wrote:

---

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He
doesn't, does he?
....etc etc etc....

This story never happened. Variants of this including a soldier in class with a professor or einstein in class with a teacher have been used and these have all been disproven. Its merely propaganda.
 Its a christian thing to promote their sort of poetic justification for whatever they THINK they're doing.
Notice that the "professor" or "teacher" is always a liberal forwarding thinking know-it-all individual and the "christian" is some conservative "values" type of person. The archetype for these nonsense stories are all the same. You have to do your research on things like this. 

If you note, to simply say "the absense of god" doesn't necessarily and directly mean evil or whatever. Its a non-sequitur and should be treated as such. Attempting to equate the two things doesn't make sense because "light and dark" have nothing to do with the qualities the believers ascribe to "god and the devil"...its all just an argument they craft so that they support their point without making any sense at all. 

This is a biased argument that is not objectively supporting its claims.

Notice how they rely on a CHRISTIAN story, not one of any other religion. You can't justify only your religion and ignore all the others.

Again, this argument fails.

Originally Posted by SamDUH562

you dudes seriously questioning this?

smh its GOD not some regular human being, anything is possible and nothing our little minds can grasp or comprehend so plz go

You know what I call things I can't comprehend? 

THINGS THAT DO NOT EXIST.

Because if they didn't exist to you, you would not have any reason to even attempt to conceptualize this.

Thank about that, seriously. 

On top of that, do you not wonder why people try to justify their "god" as something that exists outside of the realm of "human experience" but yet does very human things?

God seems to have made himself in human form, communicates using written human language, exhibits human emotions, and reacts in human/anthropomorphic ways...

Originally Posted by GP9Rm4108

Not at all. There is no point having a conversation with someone who is basically saying NA NA NA NA I'm not listening ... 

I believe what I believe and love having discussions with people who do and don't believe the same. But, if the person you are talking to has a hard heart and a closed mind, then what is the point? It's a dead end conversation.

Except that didn't happen.

I have presented arguments that challenged your views and you totally ignored them and started talking about your emotions.

Look. I'll say this once you need to get this clear.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OR YOUR EMOTIONS. I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT YOUR FAITH AND YOUR RELIGION, NOT YOU AS A PERSON. IF YOU CAN'T SEPARATE WHAT YOU THINK FROM WHO YOU ARE FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION, THEN YES, FEELINGS MIGHT GET HURT. ADDITIONALLY, I DO NOT HAVE TO RESPECT WHAT YOU BELIEVE, HOWEVER, I WILL PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT EVER YOU WANT.

That being said, you need to go back and address line by line what I said before you act like I just ignored you. 

I addressed every single sentence fragment you posed. 

Originally Posted by Young Street86

Originally Posted by Gex The Damaja

My teacher told us that the creation story is a story(religion teacher). Homies goes up to him after class:

H:You don't believe in the creation story?
T: I believe a lot of the stories are used to inspire faith
H: SO YOU DONT BELIEVE HUH?
T: 

 I believe in God not that story
H: And here i was thinking you believed, you're a fake. I use to respect you.
T: 

 

 

 

I went to a Catholic School growing up and a nun told me that as well. Blew my mind. Makes you look at the stuff in the Bible a different way. I believe in God but I do not take everything in the Bible for fact. For example, I do not believe the Jonas and the whale story. 

Why do you get off on "picking and choosing?" 

This is what I call Cafeteria Christianity. Take what you want and leave the rest. 

What you're essentially saying is that you don't believe the bible to be all true so it is not the infallible word of god. 

On top of that, where do you draw the line between what is real and what is not real? 

You can't go straight to the happy masturbatory jesus passages that reinforce these nebulous concepts of love and faith and etc and skip over the fact that there is some stuff justified in that book that we as a society do not deal with any more because its utterly wrong. You have to take the good with the bad. Its all or nothing. 

Otherwise just admit that the bible isn't as special as you say it is. 

Originally Posted by theekinqq

Say god didn't necessarily create evil. he still created us knowing that our very first human crature would sin and thus make us all suffer. 
If you were the only person and you knew that the child you have will be corrupt and destroy the rest of your children? no, you probably wouldnt, but god did just that. 
he created satan knowing beforehand that he would cause evil in the world.

This is a non-sense argument and a poor justification for you to weasel out of the hole you've created....essentially all theology is these days. 

You can't say god is all powerful and all knowing and still say it didn't create "sin" or "evil" or whatever.

God has to be responsible for that.

You can't adopt the battered woman syndrome and make excuses for this. "well he hits me sometimes...BUT HE LOVES ME!" 

It doesn't work that way. You have to reasonably look at what you're saying here.

If god knows everything and can do anything then god created animals AND the conditions they live in. So god is ultimately responsible for everything. 

On top of that, if god KNOWS everything then it KNOWS what will happen to those things it creates.

AND YOU JUST ADMITTED IT...in your words: " but god did just that. he created satan knowing beforehand that he would cause evil in the world."  So again...God created satan knowing what satan would do...so god is responsible for what satan does...which is create evil...

There is no way around it, but you just invalidated your own argument. In your words God created evil/sin.




So you must admit that god either willingly screws its creations over OR that god is neither all powerful nor all knowing.

The these two conditions can no co-exist. 

 

[jimmybeanz]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by JFaceproducer

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

He is right...god did not create evil.
God told Abraham to kill his own son (as he eventually killed his own, Jeebus).

God did not accept Cain's offering of fruits and veggies, and instead praised Abel for killing a lamb as a sacrifice. 

God killed Egypt's first borns

God told Saul to kill innocent men, women, infants and animals (God ordered so much slaying that I'm not even going to waste my time to dig them all up. feel free to read for yourself)

The most notorious of them all to me, God cursed the seeds of Adam and Eve (which is all of us) because of THEIR original sin. So we're automatically born sinners???

God definitely did not create evil....He IS just that.

Like I've been saying saying, God and the Devil are one in the same

I don't want to say that God is evil (don't want to take the chance of getting hit by lightning

), but (depending on the day you catch me) I do believe he's arbitrary. People suffer regardless of whether they believe in him or not.