NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[university of nike]

Dirk didn't have a top tier PG feeding him his whole career, unless you count an out-of-position Jason Terry and Devin Harris as top tier.

I think it's definitely a legitimate argument, and I'd pick Dirk as well. This is all based on offense, of course.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Not saying your doing this CP, but would this even be an argument prior to this season or even prior to Dirk winning a ring? 

Oh absolutely, Karl don't have one either, so before this year it wasn't like one could hold that over the other's head.  We just never had anywhere to compare players like this and such. 
For this part of a discussion, rings/winning don't matter, I just mean offensive side of the ball, is Dirk the best at PF?  Duncan gets the nod because he could play offense, and defense at a high level, plus win, he had it all.  But that doesn't make him the best offensive weapon at his spot.  Karl has the numbers on offense, I assume he gets the nod up to this point, but could Dirk lay claim to it before it's all said and done? 

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   


U/N, well he had Nash for a few years, Devin was decent, but not elite, yes, and now Kidd.  So Dirk had a couple years without a top notch PG, but it isn't like his game or numbers suffered without that guy for a couple seasons.  And BHZ, Duncan can't do the things Dirk can on offense, no way.  He had a better post game no doubt, but mid range and of course deep range, hells no.  Dirk by miles. 

 

[university of nike]

Dirk didn't have a top tier PG feeding him his whole career, unless you count an out-of-position Jason Terry and Devin Harris as top tier.

I think it's definitely a legitimate argument, and I'd pick Dirk as well. This is all based on offense, of course.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Not saying your doing this CP, but would this even be an argument prior to this season or even prior to Dirk winning a ring? 

Oh absolutely, Karl don't have one either, so before this year it wasn't like one could hold that over the other's head.  We just never had anywhere to compare players like this and such. 
For this part of a discussion, rings/winning don't matter, I just mean offensive side of the ball, is Dirk the best at PF?  Duncan gets the nod because he could play offense, and defense at a high level, plus win, he had it all.  But that doesn't make him the best offensive weapon at his spot.  Karl has the numbers on offense, I assume he gets the nod up to this point, but could Dirk lay claim to it before it's all said and done? 

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   


U/N, well he had Nash for a few years, Devin was decent, but not elite, yes, and now Kidd.  So Dirk had a couple years without a top notch PG, but it isn't like his game or numbers suffered without that guy for a couple seasons.  And BHZ, Duncan can't do the things Dirk can on offense, no way.  He had a better post game no doubt, but mid range and of course deep range, hells no.  Dirk by miles. 

 

[university of nike]

Exactly - Dirk got his without a top tier PG for a couple of seasons, whereas Karl had John his entire career.

I mean, 87% of Dirk's points this season came from jump shots... it ain't like he's doing it with layups and dunks. Dirk's offensive game, in my opinion, is unmatched at the PF position.

 

[university of nike]

Exactly - Dirk got his without a top tier PG for a couple of seasons, whereas Karl had John his entire career.

I mean, 87% of Dirk's points this season came from jump shots... it ain't like he's doing it with layups and dunks. Dirk's offensive game, in my opinion, is unmatched at the PF position.

 

[bhzmafia14]

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   



Ok, I gotcha now. I would probably go with Dirk as well. The only other player that could possibly shoot the 3 consistently would be KG, but his offense wasn't on Malone's level IMO.

 

[bhzmafia14]

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   



Ok, I gotcha now. I would probably go with Dirk as well. The only other player that could possibly shoot the 3 consistently would be KG, but his offense wasn't on Malone's level IMO.

 

[japanair21]

I'll chime in in a bit about Dirk, but it's not like Dirk really needs or thrives on great PGs as much as someone like Amar'e strives with a great PG.

Dirk had his MVP year when Devin Harris was the starting PG. Devin is and always will be a offensive 1.

I'm not going to sit here and talk about what-ifs, but Karl's success had a lot to do with Stockton. I wouldn't say the same is true for Dirk. Dirk was BETTER when Nash left, when Fin left. You can talk all you want about the "talent," that Dirk has had around him, but he was at his best when he took over the team, there was no question if this was Nash's team, or Finley's team.

Nash leaving and Jason Terry coming in was a dawn of a new era for Dallas basketball. No longer was there a question of who #1 was. It was Dirk, and everyone else had to fall in line and accept that. This past year, we finally did.

(This isn't my post on Dirk, it's going to be about 100 times longer,

, I just wanted to chime in on what's being discussed right now).

Dirk is a top-tier all-time offensive player, regardless of position. I've said this all before, but Dirk will end up in the Top 10 scoring unless he retires prematurely like some do. 4000 points for the rest of his career isn't farfetched at all. And that's where he's going to end up.

Karl was the better PF, IMO, and that's where Dirk will stay as long as Dirk has one ring. If he wins another, I think we can start talking about Dirk being behind Duncan, but Karl was great, and I'm not going to be a prisoner of the moment, or a homer.

 

[japanair21]

I'll chime in in a bit about Dirk, but it's not like Dirk really needs or thrives on great PGs as much as someone like Amar'e strives with a great PG.

Dirk had his MVP year when Devin Harris was the starting PG. Devin is and always will be a offensive 1.

I'm not going to sit here and talk about what-ifs, but Karl's success had a lot to do with Stockton. I wouldn't say the same is true for Dirk. Dirk was BETTER when Nash left, when Fin left. You can talk all you want about the "talent," that Dirk has had around him, but he was at his best when he took over the team, there was no question if this was Nash's team, or Finley's team.

Nash leaving and Jason Terry coming in was a dawn of a new era for Dallas basketball. No longer was there a question of who #1 was. It was Dirk, and everyone else had to fall in line and accept that. This past year, we finally did.

(This isn't my post on Dirk, it's going to be about 100 times longer,

, I just wanted to chime in on what's being discussed right now).

Dirk is a top-tier all-time offensive player, regardless of position. I've said this all before, but Dirk will end up in the Top 10 scoring unless he retires prematurely like some do. 4000 points for the rest of his career isn't farfetched at all. And that's where he's going to end up.

Karl was the better PF, IMO, and that's where Dirk will stay as long as Dirk has one ring. If he wins another, I think we can start talking about Dirk being behind Duncan, but Karl was great, and I'm not going to be a prisoner of the moment, or a homer.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Not saying your doing this CP, but would this even be an argument prior to this season or even prior to Dirk winning a ring? 

Oh absolutely, Karl don't have one either, so before this year it wasn't like one could hold that over the other's head.  We just never had anywhere to compare players like this and such. 
For this part of a discussion, rings/winning don't matter, I just mean offensive side of the ball, is Dirk the best at PF?  Duncan gets the nod because he could play offense, and defense at a high level, plus win, he had it all.  But that doesn't make him the best offensive weapon at his spot.  Karl has the numbers on offense, I assume he gets the nod up to this point, but could Dirk lay claim to it before it's all said and done? 

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   


U/N, well he had Nash for a few years, Devin was decent, but not elite, yes, and now Kidd.  So Dirk had a couple years without a top notch PG, but it isn't like his game or numbers suffered without that guy for a couple seasons.  And BHZ, Duncan can't do the things Dirk can on offense, no way.  He had a better post game no doubt, but mid range and of course deep range, hells no.  Dirk by miles. 

I said this year as people shouted out Carmelo Anthony and all this other %%$$!**! but Dirk is the most complete scorer in the game today. He is deadly from every spot on the court.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Not saying your doing this CP, but would this even be an argument prior to this season or even prior to Dirk winning a ring? 

Oh absolutely, Karl don't have one either, so before this year it wasn't like one could hold that over the other's head.  We just never had anywhere to compare players like this and such. 
For this part of a discussion, rings/winning don't matter, I just mean offensive side of the ball, is Dirk the best at PF?  Duncan gets the nod because he could play offense, and defense at a high level, plus win, he had it all.  But that doesn't make him the best offensive weapon at his spot.  Karl has the numbers on offense, I assume he gets the nod up to this point, but could Dirk lay claim to it before it's all said and done? 

My point being Dirk can post, mid range, and extend out to the 3 point line, what other PF can do all 3 of those, plus still pass well enough at his position?   


U/N, well he had Nash for a few years, Devin was decent, but not elite, yes, and now Kidd.  So Dirk had a couple years without a top notch PG, but it isn't like his game or numbers suffered without that guy for a couple seasons.  And BHZ, Duncan can't do the things Dirk can on offense, no way.  He had a better post game no doubt, but mid range and of course deep range, hells no.  Dirk by miles. 

I said this year as people shouted out Carmelo Anthony and all this other %%$$!**! but Dirk is the most complete scorer in the game today. He is deadly from every spot on the court.

 

[CP1708]

Friggin Yuku.... 

 

[CP1708]

JapanAir21 wrote:

---

(This isn't my post on Dirk, it's going to be about 100 times longer,

, I just wanted to chime in on what's being discussed right now).


Oh, you still alive.  I been lookin for you all @#$%^& week.  You want engraved invitations or some @#$%, post the damn thing already. 

Osh, eh, he's up there, no doubt, but he isn't the only scorer in the NBA that can score all over the floor.  Melo, Kobe and Durant all can still.  I suppose you'll mention efficiency at some point, right? 

And Amare would have had a real nice chance at this spot.  He has the talent, but I don't know if his game is ever going to get refined enough.  He doesn't have a lot of post moves, he gets a lot of pick and pops, and pick and rolls, but athletically and range wise, he could have been up near the top, he just would never have true 3 point range like Dirk has. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Friggin Yuku.... 

 

[CP1708]

JapanAir21 wrote:

---

(This isn't my post on Dirk, it's going to be about 100 times longer,

, I just wanted to chime in on what's being discussed right now).


Oh, you still alive.  I been lookin for you all @#$%^& week.  You want engraved invitations or some @#$%, post the damn thing already. 

Osh, eh, he's up there, no doubt, but he isn't the only scorer in the NBA that can score all over the floor.  Melo, Kobe and Durant all can still.  I suppose you'll mention efficiency at some point, right? 

And Amare would have had a real nice chance at this spot.  He has the talent, but I don't know if his game is ever going to get refined enough.  He doesn't have a lot of post moves, he gets a lot of pick and pops, and pick and rolls, but athletically and range wise, he could have been up near the top, he just would never have true 3 point range like Dirk has. 

  

 

[japanair21]

Where does Corey Brewer fit into all of this? Top 5 All-time wings?

The man has two National Championship rings, and now an NBA Champion, at 25.

 

[japanair21]

Where does Corey Brewer fit into all of this? Top 5 All-time wings?

The man has two National Championship rings, and now an NBA Champion, at 25.

 

[moneymike9]

Originally Posted by CP1708

a guy who averaged 7.4, 3.5, 4.8 for his career made the Hall AS A PLAYER

Is that Bill Walton, or who is that? 

  That's down right horrible. 


KC Jones, G, Boston Celtics

Yeah, guy won 8 championships, but he won them as a specialist, and not the main catalyst of the team....guy played the Bruce Bowen/Ariza/Battier type roles. Never averaged even 10.0 ppg for his career in the regular season, and just barely made it once in the postseason 10.1. No all-star teams/all-nba etc. etc, not even college player of the year or anything like that....

Inducted in '89 as a player 

 Now obviously i didnt get to watch the guy play....but based on what i've researched, this has gotta be a mistake right? Happy to be corrected/educated by any hardcore C's fan.

RE: Dirk/Malone




While you guys are right, Dirk might have a better offensive arsenal, I just want to put it out there that Karl's post game, especially that fallaway from the block was damn near unstoppable in his day. Might not have looked as spectacular as Dirk's one-legged fadeaways, but that %@#* pissed the hell off me whenever he did it coz he would destroy us back in the day with it 

 

[moneymike9]

Originally Posted by CP1708

a guy who averaged 7.4, 3.5, 4.8 for his career made the Hall AS A PLAYER

Is that Bill Walton, or who is that? 

  That's down right horrible. 


KC Jones, G, Boston Celtics

Yeah, guy won 8 championships, but he won them as a specialist, and not the main catalyst of the team....guy played the Bruce Bowen/Ariza/Battier type roles. Never averaged even 10.0 ppg for his career in the regular season, and just barely made it once in the postseason 10.1. No all-star teams/all-nba etc. etc, not even college player of the year or anything like that....

Inducted in '89 as a player 

 Now obviously i didnt get to watch the guy play....but based on what i've researched, this has gotta be a mistake right? Happy to be corrected/educated by any hardcore C's fan.

RE: Dirk/Malone




While you guys are right, Dirk might have a better offensive arsenal, I just want to put it out there that Karl's post game, especially that fallaway from the block was damn near unstoppable in his day. Might not have looked as spectacular as Dirk's one-legged fadeaways, but that %@#* pissed the hell off me whenever he did it coz he would destroy us back in the day with it 

 

[CP1708]

See, then if KC Jones can get in, they better damn well put Robert Horry in the HOF. 

 

I've made my case for Horry many times on here, but seein KC's numbers, then hell yes I have a case.  Good to hear!! 

When I seen Simmon's Pyramid, and Bill Walton at like 25 or some @#$% and I looked him up and saw he had like 6,000 career points, I almost lost it.  I know he was great for a short stretch, and coulda been better etc etc, then that would make TMac a damn top 25 all time player too. 

  Friggin Simmons. 

 

[CP1708]

See, then if KC Jones can get in, they better damn well put Robert Horry in the HOF. 

 

I've made my case for Horry many times on here, but seein KC's numbers, then hell yes I have a case.  Good to hear!! 

When I seen Simmon's Pyramid, and Bill Walton at like 25 or some @#$% and I looked him up and saw he had like 6,000 career points, I almost lost it.  I know he was great for a short stretch, and coulda been better etc etc, then that would make TMac a damn top 25 all time player too. 

  Friggin Simmons. 

 

[university of nike]

The day that Robert Horry goes into the HoF is the day that I stop watching basketball.

 

[university of nike]

The day that Robert Horry goes into the HoF is the day that I stop watching basketball.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by mogzz04

Originally Posted by CP1708

a guy who averaged 7.4, 3.5, 4.8 for his career made the Hall AS A PLAYER

Is that Bill Walton, or who is that? 

  That's down right horrible. 

KC Jones, G, Boston Celtics

Yeah, guy won 8 championships, but he won them as a specialist, and not the main catalyst of the team....guy played the Bruce Bowen/Ariza/Battier type roles. Never averaged even 10.0 ppg for his career in the regular season, and just barely made it once in the postseason 10.1. No all-star teams/all-nba etc. etc, not even college player of the year or anything like that....

Inducted in '89 as a player 

 Now obviously i didnt get to watch the guy play....but based on what i've researched, this has gotta be a mistake right? Happy to be corrected/educated by any hardcore C's fan.

RE: Dirk/Malone




While you guys are right, Dirk might have a better offensive arsenal, I just want to put it out there that Karl's post game, especially that fallaway from the block was damn near unstoppable in his day. Might not have looked as spectacular as Dirk's one-legged fadeaways, but that %@#* pissed the hell off me whenever he did it coz he would destroy us back in the day with it 

That just proves my point in why i hate ppl that says the league now is diluted. I mean guys like walton, kc jones, dantley, but then again that was the early nba when basically as long as you suited up and got some sort of accolade/award/achievement in any level of bball you was a hof. But its a hard call cause you got guys like mark price, cooper, glen rice etc who arent in.