NT's LEGAL Gun Thread UPDATE...First Youtube Firearm Review Page 61

[rollout]

Anybody have any experience with private sales from Armslist?

yeah, what's up?

Is it trustworthy in your experience?

What is the proper etiquette?

I see some good prices on there, but I'm still a little iffy on the meet ups.

I've never had a problem with it, but as far as I remember, I only used it to sell rather than buy. I assume you're looking to buy?

Trustworthy: Armslist has a feature for people to report posts that are suspected/confirmed to be scams, so that helps. I would use the same common sense you'd use elsewhere online: If the post is in all caps, horrible writing/English, or it's a deal "too good to be true", you should probably avoid it. But I think the majority of posts are legit.

Etiquette: This got really long, so lemme spoiler tag it:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Since most of the guns are used on Armslist, it's like buying any other used item- haggling is part of the process. Some people post stuff at their "last price", but most people expect to be bargained down at least a little. I won't tell you how to haggle here, but just be aware that the more time you spend trying to get them down in price, someone else may be offering them a better deal, so don't get too ambitious, lol

Once you've contacted the seller and they agree to the deal, you exchange contact info and figure out a meeting place that works for you both. If you live close by, pick a public area and meet during daytime, just to decrease the sketch-factor. Obviously don't whip out guns right by the entrance of Wal-mart, but a good place is a corner of a large parking lot where there's not a lot of people... people are close enough to be witnesses (which should scare off someone with bad intentions), but not so close to actually see the details what you're doing. Some people actually meet at a gun shop, but that's not necessary (but it's fine).

When you're there, the guy with the firearm gets it out, hopefully in a case. Discreetly look it over- it's important to inspect it now, because if something is obviously not right it's basically tough luck once you bring it home. If everything looks alright, you hand them your money and you both leave.

A lot of times, the seller will print out an informal "bill of sale" that may ask you to provide your name, phone #, driver's license number, and/or other ID info. There will also probably be a statement on there that you swear/guarantee that you are legally allowed to own guns... That info isn't legally required for a private sale (depending on where you live), but it's basically insurance for the seller in case that gun ends up being used in a crime/by a felon. Many states simply require private sellers to do their due diligence to make sure they're selling to non-felons... Actual FFLs are required to do background checks, so if a person is a felon, that will get caught there. A lot of times if a person requires that info, they'll list it on their post to try to scare off felons from trying to contact them to buy in the first place.

If you have a license to carry, it's not a bad idea to do so during these sales, just for peace of mind. Obviously if the guy rolls up and things don't look right, use your best judgement. You have no legal commitment to buy just because you agreed to meet, so stay safe... it's always worked fine for me, but I also live in a really safe place, so YMMV.

 

[richiecotite]

@rollout, excellent synopsis on buying and selling face to face via a website.

 

[Belgium]

Thanks to @rollout  for linking me here. Last week I inherited 7 guns, 1 Diana 340 N-Tec air gun and 6 hunting guns, and under Belgian law I have 6 months to get sell them to a gun store or the police, doesn't matter if they're unregistered. I know at least 1 or 2 are unregistered but that's not a problem as long as I get rid of them within the next 6 months. 

I was only able to recover paperwork for one of them, a Browning B725. However I'm not sure which one of these guns that is. I can make 1 private sale, the others have to be sold to gun stores or the police since I do not have a license to keep them. I've occasionally went hunting with my dad but I don't really know anything about the guns besides knowing how to operate them safely with the basic ones. 

Our schedule is a bit busy at this moment so it'll be at least one or two weeks before I'll be taking them to the gun store to identify them. I'll be taking them to at least 2 others to get a more accurate idea of how much they would value them. The police would buy all of them either way but you're not exactly getting the best price from the cops of course.

In terms of prices, I have no idea what I'm looking at. I know at least one of them was quite expensive and over €1500. Most of them also have silver engravings of birds etc but it's not that visible in the pictures.

I'll add some individual pictures here if anyone can identify them, what kind of gun it is or an idea of its general value.

Personally I'm not much of a gun person but admittedly I'm quite curious about them and a greater appreciation for the craftsmanship.

They're not at my house at the moment so I only have these pictures at this time.

This is apparently called a "bullet gun" here, at least that's its literal translation. My landlord expressed interest in this one depending on the caliber. Said this kind of gun is used for larger wild animals. There's not really any large wild animals around here but I know my dad hunted foxes so I'm guessing he used this one to do so.

I'd have to check again if that part around the trigger is silver gone dark from not being polished but I think this one was steel.

This one is the Diana 340 N-Tec air gun, I can legally keep this one so this one is probably staying, though it looks a little rusty.

Don't know anything about this one. I'm not sure how that part is called around the trigger but that's silver. Need a bit of a polish though.

Don't know anything about this one either. This one has birds engraved in the silver part.

Same story with this one. This one is pretty old or wasn't used very often because the silver part has gone almost black from not being polished.

This one also has silver engraving but I don't think it was birds. But definitely engraved.

This is the last one, also with silver engraving

 

[rollout]

Welcome, @Colombia! I'm not super well-versed in hunting long guns, but have confidence that this community will help you discover accurate values on these firearms. I'd definitely recommend updating the pics with captions including whatever text you can find on the guns... a make and model will go a long ways. 

 

[Belgium]

 
Welcome, @Colombia! I'm not super well-versed in hunting long guns, but have confidence that this community will help you discover accurate values on these firearms. I'd definitely recommend updating the pics with captions including whatever text you can find on the guns... a make and model will go a long ways. 

Thanks, great thread by the way. Might be peeking in here more often with a renewed interest in firearms.

They're still in a locked safe at my dad's house but I should be going over there later this week to clean up a bit and try to look for additional paperwork etc. I'll store them in my house then so I can examine them more closely.

 

[Belgium]

 
Welcome, @Colombia! I'm not super well-versed in hunting long guns, but have confidence that this community will help you discover accurate values on these firearms. I'd definitely recommend updating the pics with captions including whatever text you can find on the guns... a make and model will go a long ways. 

Little update: I've recovered full paperwork for 2 of the guns and after visiting our local gun store and another one nearby, I've handed them off to our local one to sell. They take 15%, we get the rest.

This is the first one, a Browning B725 Superposé* (* I think the English translation is "over and under", referring to the barrel)

Caliber 12, purchased for €2560

I forgot to take close-ups before handing them over but this is the Browning.

The second gun with paperwork we've handed over to be sold is a Beretta 556E Superposé

Caliber 20

There's no paperwork to be found anywhere in dad's house for the other 4 guns. I've hidden them in a safe place for the time being while the gun store is checking if they have any paperwork or electronic transaction data as my dad was a regular customer. They think the one with the scope might have been purchased from them but the others didn't look very familiar to them. I'll receive as many details as possible later when they finish looking through their records and identifying them. If they have no records I'll have to register them with the province first through a notary if I want to sell them.

Gun #1, the one with the scope posted earlier we refer to as a "bullet gun" here doesn't seem to have a brand mentioned anywhere on the gun. All I found was "Made In Russia" on the side. Light caliber used to hunt foxes, not sure of the exact details at this time. First impressions are that it's fairly old and not worth a lot as there's not even a sign of the brand on the gun.

Some closer details of gun #2: (don't mind the dirty floor, these were taken at my dad's house and still needs quite a bit of cleaning)

Upon closer inspection, the brand is on the back of the stock and the model is on the bottom of the gun infront of the trigger.

It's a Baikal 27EM-M-1C Superposé (Made In Russia)

Unsure of caliber etc.

Gun #3: Looks like the brand is on the side of the gun next to the engraved part.

Canna Cromata (Made In Italy) with a folding mechanism. This one will have to be destroyed by the police. From what I can tell it's a fold shotgun, allowing you to bend the barrel backwards and essentially fit in into loose pants without much issue. Fold guns are high on the list of banned weapons since 2006 and are illegal for anyone to possess/sell. No issue for me as I found it through inheritance and can turn it in for destruction without any penalties but I don't know what my dad was thinking keeping this around. Considering these things have been banned for over a decade and are in the same category of banned firearms as automatic weapons, I'm not even sure how, where or why he obtained this. Will definitely be turning this one over for destruction asap.

And finally, gun #4: I can't find any clear reference of brand/model on the gun and it looks pretty old and rusty.

However there was some kind of symbol/logo on the back of the stock that might be a clue.

As for the Diana 340 N-Tec Classic air gun, the landlord has given me permission to use his large property behind our home to shoot as much as I want.

He has a container with a big pile of earth/dirt he doesn't need and I can plant a pole or something with a target sheet on it and shoot all day for all he cares. I still need to give it an extra oil treatment to smoothen the reload mechanism but other than that it's ready to go and the gun store gave me 500 4,5mm ammunition for free on my way out. Never thought I'd be taking up shooting as a hobby 

 Even if just with an air gun.

 

[jewseejay]

Look like some decent over unders

Not an area of specialty for myself either but sux you cant just keep then until you decide what you wanna do

 

[mplsdunk]

Meh, I'd just keep the unregistered shotguns and shoot clays. Seems like a big headache you didn't ask for that just got put on you.

 

[Belgium]

Meh, I'd just keep the unregistered shotguns and shoot clays. Seems like a big headache you didn't ask for that just got put on you.

Yeah it's a bit more hassle than I anticipated. I initially thought he had 4 guns in total and 1 or maybe 2 unregistered ones. Hunting and guns were his passion so I figured he'd at least try to keep proper paperwork around just in case. Though I suppose under the table deals are quite common here as we live in a small rural town surrounded mostly by other rural towns.

I'm gonna have to get at least 1 of them destoyed by the police either way. Gun #3, that Canna Cromata is as illegal as it gets when I found out it's a fold shotgun.

There's a mechanism on it that allows you to pull the barrel all the way backwards and "fold" the shotgun. All "fold guns", whose barrel can bend fully backwards, are banned in all cases. Not even licensed gun stores can have or sell them.

So I certainly don't feel comfortable keeping that around. There's not even a single legal exception in the law where someone could possess that kind of gun, aside from a temporary period after inheriting and finding it. But it must be destroyed by the police either way.

As for the others if no paperwork can be found at the gun store, I'll just get rid of them through provincial registration and then hand them over to the gunstore to sell. I'll stick to my airgun to prevent any kind of firearm hassle. Clay shooting wouldn't be for me either way as my depth perception is very bad, to the point I'm not allowed to drive because I can't judge distances adequately. Shooting with the air gun other hand is more to my liking and I'm not that bad at it. I usually win or tie the #1 spot in the shooting contests we occasionally hold at my friend's house with his scoped air gun.

The landlord's property behind our house is fairly large so I can shoot from distances up to 50m. Plenty of space to practice with the regular sights and a scope I'll be purchasing later. 

 

[mplsdunk]

Too bad they are so strict. That illegal one you were talking about is super dope. I'd buy that for sure if it didn't have to be destroyed and you weren't across the world from me.

I like old shotguns. I'd use it all the time.

Anyways sorry about the death of your dad. My girls dad just died a few weeks ago. They weren't close at all but she still had to get a lawyer because legally she has to deal with his estate even though she wants nothing from him. Good luck with everything man, hopefully all your family is cool and helpful.

 

[Belgium]

Too bad they are so strict. That illegal one you were talking about is super dope. I'd buy that for sure if it didn't have to be destroyed and you weren't across the world from me.

I like old shotguns. I'd use it all the time.

Anyways sorry about the death of your dad. My girls dad just died a few weeks ago. They weren't close at all but she still had to get a lawyer because legally she has to deal with his estate even though she wants nothing from him. Good luck with everything man, hopefully all your family is cool and helpful.

Sorry to hear man, and thanks for the condolences. Thankfully I'm the only child and all of it is going to me by default. So unlike my mom when granddad passed away, I won't have to argue/fight with other family members about who gets what and why.

My mom's inheritance process lasted several months and has resulted in my mom and 3 of her sisters basically exiling the other sister because she and (mainly) her husband were stonewalling the process and were trying to block plots of farmland they were leasing from granddad going to the rightful new owners.

Thankfully I won't have to deal with anything like that and my mom can help me out with the process as it's entirely new to me. Those I've talked to already have said the process is significantly shorter as a sole beneficiary.

Living in a small rural town has many benefits though. I know the people at the bank, they know me, the notary knows our family and handled the inheritance for my mom and aunts after granddad's passing, ... So most of the people I'll be arranging things are already quite familiar with me and vice versa.

As for that gun you mentioned, I was figuring out earlier how exactly it worked earlier today to confirm what I was able to find out about the gun online and it does indeed fold in two. Looks very dangerous to me in the wrong hands, not surprised these things have to be destroyed. Being a shotgun it can do quite a bit of damage and it's surprisingly small when folded. Very light too. I suppose a criminal could saw off part of the barrel to make it even smaller.

 

[jewseejay]

Not exactly how it works. Yes the gun is alotttt more powerful than a pocket 9 or something but the hand guns infintely more dangerous in the wrong hands... 2 shells and ur reloading... cant manuever well, cant stick it in ur pocket etc etc

Your countrys laws suck

Not casting judgement. My country as a whole sucks atm haha

 

[mplsdunk]

I'd say it's more of a cool antique than dangerous.

Like you'd have to pull it out, load it, shoot twice, reload, shoot twice, reload. it's just a cool old gun.

And yeah our country is in a much worse place anyways. Trump is president and cops are getting away with murder daily. Enough said...

 

[mplsdunk]

Here's my old gun I got from my old neighbor who used it on her rifle team in elementary school.

Remington sport master .22 from 1954 I believe, tube magazine and bolt action, in real good condition.

 

[rollout]

 
Welcome, @Colombia! I'm not super well-versed in hunting long guns, but have confidence that this community will help you discover accurate values on these firearms. I'd definitely recommend updating the pics with captions including whatever text you can find on the guns... a make and model will go a long ways. 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Little update: I've recovered full paperwork for 2 of the guns and after visiting our local gun store and another one nearby, I've handed them off to our local one to sell. They take 15%, we get the rest.

This is the first one, a Browning B725 Superposé* (* I think the English translation is "over and under", referring to the barrel)

Caliber 12, purchased for €2560

I forgot to take close-ups before handing them over but this is the Browning.

The second gun with paperwork we've handed over to be sold is a Beretta 556E Superposé

Caliber 20

There's no paperwork to be found anywhere in dad's house for the other 4 guns. I've hidden them in a safe place for the time being while the gun store is checking if they have any paperwork or electronic transaction data as my dad was a regular customer. They think the one with the scope might have been purchased from them but the others didn't look very familiar to them. I'll receive as many details as possible later when they finish looking through their records and identifying them. If they have no records I'll have to register them with the province first through a notary if I want to sell them.

Gun #1, the one with the scope posted earlier we refer to as a "bullet gun" here doesn't seem to have a brand mentioned anywhere on the gun. All I found was "Made In Russia" on the side. Light caliber used to hunt foxes, not sure of the exact details at this time. First impressions are that it's fairly old and not worth a lot as there's not even a sign of the brand on the gun.

Some closer details of gun #2: (don't mind the dirty floor, these were taken at my dad's house and still needs quite a bit of cleaning)

Upon closer inspection, the brand is on the back of the stock and the model is on the bottom of the gun infront of the trigger.

It's a Baikal 27EM-M-1C Superposé (Made In Russia)

Unsure of caliber etc.

Gun #3: Looks like the brand is on the side of the gun next to the engraved part.

Canna Cromata (Made In Italy) with a folding mechanism. This one will have to be destroyed by the police. From what I can tell it's a fold shotgun, allowing you to bend the barrel backwards and essentially fit in into loose pants without much issue. Fold guns are high on the list of banned weapons since 2006 and are illegal for anyone  to possess/sell. No issue for me as I found it through inheritance and can turn it in for destruction without any penalties but I don't know what my dad was thinking keeping this around. Considering these things have been banned for over a decade and are in the same category of banned firearms as automatic weapons, I'm not even sure how, where or why he obtained this. Will definitely be turning this one over for destruction asap.

And finally, gun #4: I can't find any clear reference of brand/model on the gun and it looks pretty old and rusty.

However there was some kind of symbol/logo on the back of the stock that might be a clue.

As for the Diana 340 N-Tec Classic air gun, the landlord has given me permission to use his large property behind our home to shoot as much as I want.

He has a container with a big pile of earth/dirt he doesn't need and I can plant a pole or something with a target sheet on it and shoot all day for all he cares. I still need to give it an extra oil treatment to smoothen the reload mechanism but other than that it's ready to go and the gun store gave me 500 4,5mm ammunition for free on my way out. Never thought I'd be taking up shooting as a hobby 

 Even if just with an air gun.

"They take 15%, we get the rest." That sounds like the best arrangement for your situation, good deal.

Baikal 27EM-M-1C

Here's a nice little article about this over-under shotgun, along with the new price (500 euro):

http://www.gunmart.net/gun-reviews/shotguns/over-and-under-shotgun/baikal_27_em_m_ic

Regarding caliber, when it comes to shotguns, when in doubt, guess 12 gauge and go from there. It's the most common shotgun caliber by far, followed by 20 gauge (20 ga is unintuitively smaller than 12 ga). The local gun shop would probably be happy to verify the caliber of your unknown weapons, and/or should have a "dummy round" or "snap cap" that you can buy that would allow you to safely confirm the caliber without chambering a live round. That should cost you less than 10 euro for one or two of those, and you can reuse them.

Canna Cromata

I agree with others that this is a case of overkill gun control laws in Europe... A handgun would be a much more effective weapon for anything besides hunting. Regardless of the stupidity of the law, you're wise to comply with it. It's definitely an interesting gun, though- I've never seen one like that before.

Diana 340 N-Tec Classic air gun 

That's awesome about your landlord's property and the free ammo from the gun store! The gun store may have mentioned this to you while you were there, but as a new shooter ("even if just with an air gun"), you should make a habit of following the 4 essential rules of gun safety:

https://www.hunter-ed.com/gun-safety/

(These are universally taught rules that can be found anywhere online, but I liked the clear format on that page.)

Shooting your air gun will be good practice for you to develop good habits to continue if you ever decide to own a firearm someday in the future. By the way, here are some free targets you can print out:

http://www.mytargets.com/

http://www.targets.ws/

 

[mike honcho]

USP 9c stainless

 

[Magic33]

How many does that hold?

It looks weird, because it looks short but the handle seems long. It might be the camera angle.

I'm not familiar with USP's. Are they good guns?

 

[mike honcho]

How many does that hold?

It looks weird, because it looks short but the handle seems long. It might be the camera angle.

I'm not familiar with USP's. Are they good guns?

13+1 capacity

It's an HK if that gives you a better idea about the USPs track record or how good they are. I like them, but not everyone is a fan. They're somewhat bulky and capacity is typically lower when compared to their Glock counterparts (if you want to use Glock as a baseline for comparison). Definitely high quality and reliable firearms. Fairly pricey though. Also, a of people dislike the mag release.

 

[Belgium]

 
"They take 15%, we get the rest." That sounds like the best arrangement for your situation, good deal.

Baikal 27EM-M-1C

Here's a nice little article about this over-under shotgun, along with the new price (500 euro):

http://www.gunmart.net/gun-reviews/shotguns/over-and-under-shotgun/baikal_27_em_m_ic

Regarding caliber, when it comes to shotguns, when in doubt, guess 12 gauge and go from there. It's the most common shotgun caliber by far, followed by 20 gauge (20 ga is unintuitively smaller than 12 ga). The local gun shop would probably be happy to verify the caliber of your unknown weapons, and/or should have a "dummy round" or "snap cap" that you can buy that would allow you to safely confirm the caliber without chambering a live round. That should cost you less than 10 euro for one or two of those, and you can reuse them.

Canna Cromata

I agree with others that this is a case of overkill gun control laws in Europe... A handgun would be a much more effective weapon for anything besides hunting. Regardless of the stupidity of the law, you're wise to comply with it. It's definitely an interesting gun, though- I've never seen one like that before.

Diana 340 N-Tec Classic air gun 

That's awesome about your landlord's property and the free ammo from the gun store! The gun store may have mentioned this to you while you were there, but as a new shooter ("even if just with an air gun"), you should make a habit of following the 4 essential rules of gun safety:

https://www.hunter-ed.com/gun-safety/

(These are universally taught rules that can be found anywhere online, but I liked the clear format on that page.)

Shooting your air gun will be good practice for you to develop good habits to continue if you ever decide to own a firearm someday in the future. By the way, here are some free targets you can print out:

http://www.mytargets.com/

http://www.targets.ws/

The info is much appreciated. I occasionally helped carry my dad's guns (only unloaded ones) when I was younger so I still remember some of the basic guidelines. I also have a gun safety handbook with me from the gun store with detailed steps on how to carry, shoot, go safely from a carrying position to shooting, ... There's a primary focus on hunting etc. but it's good to know the guidelines for all kinds of situations either way.

I'll be doing stationary target practice so I'll only be loading the gun when I'm in position ready to shoot and emptying the chamber before I go back to the house. So there's no reason to be carrying around a loaded gun, even with the safety being on at all times. The area behind the house where I can shoot is pretty much a large open space with a clear view of my surroundings. The landlord suggested to place the target right infront of a huge pile of solid dirt he doesn't need anyway. It's certainly wide and large enough to catch the missed shots.

I don't see myself wanting to pursue real firearms in the future but then again I didn't exactly expect to own and shoot with an air gun either 

As for that fold shotgun, I found out a little bit more information about it by asking my aunt and uncle about it. They weren't 100% sure but they said it reminds them of a fold gun my granddad on my mom's side used to have and their best guess is at some point before he passed away several years ago he gave or sold it to my dad. That recollection was from a long time ago though so if it is indeed the same gun it's quite old. Rather stupid of my dad to accept or buy that kind of gun though given its legal status. It's not like he could carry or use it anywhere that raise questions from other people. 

 

[jmause3]

Debating on a sig 320 40cal sub and XD mod 2? Any history good or bad with either. Currently have a glock 19

 

[John Wick]

.

 

[mjhead23]

Debating on a sig 320 40cal sub and XD mod 2? Any history good or bad with either. Currently have a glock 19

I have the P320 in 9mm and I love it. I would recommend it to anybody. I'm looking into a Glock 19 now. I got the itch.

 

[maldonado]

Debating on a sig 320 40cal sub and XD mod 2? Any history good or bad with either. Currently have a glock 19

I have an XDmod 2 in 9mm (sub-compact). I absolutely love it, but I'm partial to Springfield. I've had zero issues with this or my XDm that I had previously (ate any type of ammo/always fires,no bullets jammed, etc)

Honestly, you probably can't go wrong with either, with the difference between the two coming down to personal preference.

I'd suggest (if you haven't already) at least checking both out in person, and if possible, rent both n see how they shoot.

 

[iamdef]

Picked up my first gun this past Sunday thanks to my wife for my birthday.

Pistol grip Remington 870 for $250. Nothing special but I feel like a big kid wanting to play with it and walk around my house with it lol

Researching now for a good carrying case for it. Plan on getting another shotgun next month and a pistol around Aug-Sept.

I don't have an actual intended purpose for multiple guns other than fun and ownership. Been following the "gun culture" for a lil while and glad to be "apart" of it.

Had to decide between the 12 guage Remington for $250 a SPAS 20 guage for $250 and a Mossberg Shockwave for $400. Almost got the SPAS but decided on the Remington because it was gonna be brand new. Hopefully I get another chance at the SPAS

 

[appleheaddmv]

Glock 19 member here.... great pistol!