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I wonder if ever at some point the Knick fans will stop pointing their finger at the coach for the reason their team sucks.
**Official '11 NYK LOCKOUT thread*** lockout over
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pr0phecy718,
- Start date
king x riece
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Mister Meaner
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I wish we had Larry Brown. He is my favorite coach, and his history with perhaps the most volatile star in NBA history should go a long with with our Big Two. Crawford put in his best defensive effort under him, and actually looked decent out there. If he can motivate Crawford to use his athleticism to such a degree, I'd be pretty confident he can turn us around. We just have too much talent within the Big 2 to have a repeat of his stint here before.
king x riece
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Andy Rautins (@andyrautins1)
4/25/11 9:04 PM
Tix to Yankee stadium: Free (lol) Foam fingers: 12$ Chicken tenders and drinks: 30$ Me n Fields getting booed on the jumbotron... Priceless
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It's not completely the coaches fault but he deserves his share of the blame. When you have players speaking (even though its under the condition of anonymity) about the fact that they had to disregard the coach and come out playing defense as if they had some pride, it speaks volumes.
When players are basically taking it upon themselves to play defense, it tells me that the head coach is not vocalizing playing defense and likely in fact minimalizing it.
A team isn't going to perform at its best when players don't believe in the coach. Before the DEN-NYK trade, everyone bought into the system which is why we played fairly well. After the trade however, you could tell the new players, primarily Anthony & Billups didn't buy into the system right away or ever. The pre-Anthony Knicks followed Stoudemire's lead. Stoudemire bought into the system, everyone else followed. But Stoudemire is not the only guy anymore. Carmelo is a bigger name, he is 1a, Stoudemire is 1b. So if both guys don't buy into the system, other players may not either. And that explains the poor style of play.
However, I'm not writing off D'Antoni yet. I still think he deserves a full offseason/training camp/pre-season & half a season with a set roster and then we can judge him. He needs to sit down with Stoudemire, Anthony & Billups and have them buy into this system and I think we'd have a high degree of success. However, if that happens and it still doesn't work... time to can him.
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hahaha. i don't think i would of booed but that's hilarious. glad they see the humor in it too
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Glad to see Rautins enjoys being in the NBA. Hope he has fun in Siberia next year.
smh @ Fields being basically untradable and almost costing the Knicks Melo
smh @ Fields being basically untradable and almost costing the Knicks Melo
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dog... looking at your post count, you obviously dont know me to well
guys i really think it is stupid to keep looking at who has paid their dues and who hasnt and just look at who would be our best candidate. do you guys REALLY think that Patrick Ewing will be a better head coach than Mark Jackson just because hes been an assistant coach? Why dont we just give the job to herb Williams? Guys, Mark Jackson isnt taking an assistant coaching gig and i really dont blame him, hes got a great thing going on at TNT or whatever !+!@!$$ network that i know a lot of guys would kill for just that job. But its not like he has been away from basketball so can we please cut it out with that bull **$%.
Homie has been a coach on the floor for his entire NBA carreer. I mean %%+* he was ready to coach games the minute he stepped on the floor in 1989. Ewing was a great !+!@!$$ player but he never had that aspect going on for him. IMO there are not a lot of guys out there with a high ceiling for us. D'Antoni, Rick Adelman, Ewing, SVG, Sam Mitchell, etc. maybe the smart choice resume wise but they really dont have a high ceiling to be what we need right now and take this team to the promise land. IMO resume wise Jackson may be the biggest "risk" but sometimes you just gotta be like %%+* it and go for the @+%@@%%#%*%+* jack pot. Thats kinda what we did to get Melo. IMO Mark Jackson is the only potential head coaching candidate out there who could potentially has what it takes to be a Knicks great, ESPECIALLY with this team. Thats why i wanted to give him the job 3 seasons ago so he could shake any cobwebs out while we were losing and grow with our young team, but i still think he should get it more today than ever. I think hed be fanstastic right off the bat.
Like i said before alot of guys have done great things on little experience and this is Jackson's dream job AND he is Melo/Stat he would not be !+!@!$$ around here. Give the man a chance. I mean as i pointed out before Doc Rivers won Coach of the year in 1999-2000 with Orlando and he did it on less experience than Mark would be doing on, he wasnt a commentator who has seen every team in the NBA multiple times over the past through seasons and has broken them down with a great coach in JVG, AND most importantly Doc Rivers was never the coach on the floor during his NBA carreer like Mark was, and Mark was as good as or better of a motivator as well which at the end of the day is most impoortant and that is what he would bring here as well. You bet for damn !+!@!$$ certain we wouldnt have those !+!@!$$ lifeless playoff games in the NBA's most hostile arena if Jackson was on the bench. Believe that.
but never really thought of it, only other wildcard i would kind of take out of the organization is Lawrence Frank. I always liked dudes demeanor, he was great right off the bat in Jersey, and hes been just getting better im sure on the bench in Boston right now. I still like Mark but if were looking for someone with this so called "experience" id take him... or Herb if you want to talk about paying dues, cmon now
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I don't want MJ like most, however all of your suggestions are unrealistic or questionable. Both Browns will not come here, while frank coached a 12 win team, and Mitchell was mediocre i Toronto. Our best bet is Adelman, if he doesn't want us, let Pringles finish his contract. Pringles is a mediocre coach, but with a full offseason w/ Chauncey/Melo and an added center, we should finish next year somewhere between 47 - 53 wins.Originally Posted by viiheaven
Mark Jackson is NOT the answer. It would take AT LEAST TWO YEARS for him to get used to coaching an NBA team. I don't know about you guys but I'm over the "just give it a couple more years til everything meshes."
We need a coach who has the know-how to win NOW. Mark Jackson doesn't have that. You need an experienced coach.
What I'd give for Doug Collins right about now
Coaches I wouldn't be opposed to hiring (all available at the moment):
Sam Mitchell
Larry Brown
Hubie Brown
Lawrence Frank
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'paying dues' may or may not make you more prepared but you better believe it does in the eyes of who may hire you. James Dolan has 200 million dollars invested in Carmlo and Amare to win ASAP and he's going to go hire a guy who has never coached a day in his life? That is a hard sell.
If he had gone through the process like 99% of other coaches, great...it'd give him a better chance and he would have something to stand on. How bad can he really want to be a head coach if he refuses to do so? The Hornets and Hawks didn't hire him after interviews, what gives?
You know Mark Jackson is a 'jack pot' hire and has a higher ceiling than any other candidate just because of the way he played? I need to see more than that.
Why don't we just bring Clyde out of the booth? The only difference between those 2 is Clyde actually won a title and didn't openly mock our team/act like a **** when he came back with a different squad.
If he had gone through the process like 99% of other coaches, great...it'd give him a better chance and he would have something to stand on. How bad can he really want to be a head coach if he refuses to do so? The Hornets and Hawks didn't hire him after interviews, what gives?
You know Mark Jackson is a 'jack pot' hire and has a higher ceiling than any other candidate just because of the way he played? I need to see more than that.
Why don't we just bring Clyde out of the booth? The only difference between those 2 is Clyde actually won a title and didn't openly mock our team/act like a **** when he came back with a different squad.
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I agree with everything you said... if it were three years ago. Three years ago there were no expectations. Mark Jackson could have gone through the daily routine, the in's & out's of coaching and been a good coach by now. But now is not the time to hire a coach on their first go around. Going into next season, there will be expectations of reaching the Eastern Conference Finals.
The goals for this year were a winning record (check) and making the playoffs (check). Everything further than that would have been over-achieving. Going into 2011-12, we will have two superstars already on the roster, an aging but veteran point guard, a 2nd-year player in Landry Fields who played extremely well for 75% of the season and role players (Shawne Williams, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Jared Jeffries) who have had a season to get familiar with each others game.
You can't throw a cog like a new coach who isn't used to the day-to-day dealings of an NBA franchise in the progressive movement of the team. You saw what happened when we traded for Melo, the team was out of sync for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Now imagine throwing in a new head coach, it'd be the same story all over again. I could even understand had Mark been an assistant coach somewhere, because then he'd be familiar with having to make adjustments, studying film (as a coach) coordinating practices, having a relationship with the General Manager. Coaching isn't just coaching, there's a lot more to it.
Don't get me wrong, I would have loved Mark Jackson to be the coach right now, but if he had been hired when we had a vacancy during our down years. Now is not the time.
All the other guys I mentioned (Mitchell, Hubie & Larry Brown, Frank) have been through the rigorous routine of being a coach. Sam Mitchell managed to get a Toronto Raptors team who had a bunch of D-Leaguers & Chris Bosh to the playoffs. His career record is only a few losses short of .500.
We already know the legacy of Larry Brown.
Hubie Brown is a basketball GOD. Demands respect as soon as he steps through the door, plus he was a former Knicks coach.
Lawrence Frank as THEGR8 has said, has a great demeanor. The guy was born to coach basketball. He preaches defense, he has experience in maintaining egos. The only thing I'd be concerned about is players not buying into his system because of his resume & young age.
Why not ask Jeff Van Gundy to come back? The previous players from his tenure are gone, news ears to listen to him, he's defensive minded, but smart enough to find ways for Amare and Melo to do work as needed scoring wise. Brings a solid credibility, can handle the media, etc etc. Is his bridge completely burned out in NY?
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I'd rather give it to a no name assistant coach to be honest if we switch coaches instead of some recycled crap.
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Originally Posted by Proshares
That'll never happen. He deserves some blame but not all of it and definitely does not deserve to be fired.
the pieces we have don't fit is style. he has shown that he can't adjust to another one. his "system" is publicly mocked anyway
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James Dolan & JVG cannot stand one another. Donnie Walsh would have to work a miracle in order to convince him to OK that hire.
yeeupp
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In the 4th quarter around 6:50 mark, down 6Amare made a bad pass to Melo in the paint with three defenders on Melo.Followed by a backdoor play by Rondo pretty much ended the game.
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Theres a critique for any coach that will be mentioned though. There's no perfect coach on this earth. You want a coach with a great offensive mind that can allow Melo n STAT to flourish offensively AND be such an incredible defensive guru that he could make them also be strong defenders? AND you want him to have had great success in the past with the ability to win a ring asap? If that coach existed, do you think he would be on the couch waiting for a Job. Now I see why people think NYK fans are delusional
king x riece
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QFT.
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QFT...These dudes are calling for Larry Brown the same guy they ran out of town after giving him 40 million the year beforeOriginally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387
Theres a critique for any coach that will be mentioned though. There's no perfect coach on this earth. You want a coach with a great offensive mind that can allow Melo n STAT to flourish offensively AND be such an incredible defensive guru that he could make them also be strong defenders? AND you want him to have had great success in the past with the ability to win a ring asap? If that coach existed, do you think he would be on the couch waiting for a Job. Now I see why people think NYK fans are delusional
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No, I just want balance now that Amare and Melo are the 2 we have to work with. Which Is why I said Adelman is a logical fit, but even he has his own faults.
JVG is not balanced at all. He's as bad as D'Antoni in being one-sided/stubborn. idk people still seem to love him to this day. Had this thread been around in '99 people would have blown a gasket over Camby only playing 20 minutes a game.
JVG is not balanced at all. He's as bad as D'Antoni in being one-sided/stubborn. idk people still seem to love him to this day. Had this thread been around in '99 people would have blown a gasket over Camby only playing 20 minutes a game.
Originally Posted by DubA169
Originally Posted by Proshares
That'll never happen. He deserves some blame but not all of it and definitely does not deserve to be fired.
the pieces we have don't fit is style. he has shown that he can't adjust to another one. his "system" is publicly mocked anyway
I'm not going down this road again man, you know how I feel and I know how you feel. You say HE has shown but what has the roster full of summer invites shown?
BTW, if it wasn't for a Robert Horry hipcheck there'd be a different light on him as a coach. There were middle of the pack defenses in Phoenix, there is no personnel/players for that here. If you guys wanna boot him out 30 games into his tenure with him finally getting somewhat of a roster that they envisioned, I'm not changing your minds.
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pro, my fear is that we get into 5th place, we lose in the 2nd round and sign dantoni to an extension for 3 years. in those years we never get over the hump. he's not the worst coach in the league but i don't think the guy pushes this team over the hump.
that's why i want him out now and not when he finishes his contract next year.
JVG and dolan hate each other. people need to stop clinging to him coming. it's not happening! just keep the good memories you have of his stay here and forget about him
that's why i want him out now and not when he finishes his contract next year.
JVG and dolan hate each other. people need to stop clinging to him coming. it's not happening! just keep the good memories you have of his stay here and forget about him
I'm not understanding what's so bad about a team that is going to have pretty bad cap constraints next year and that has played so inconsistently this year making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
That would be grounds for firing him? So basically, he needs to make it as a top 4 seed and make it to at least the conference finals to even be considered for an extension? If we win a 1st round series next year with minor adjustments to this roster, that would be a success no? Because right now, we're not better than any of those top 5 teams and I don't see that drastically changing next season.
Unless Orlando decides to trade D12 or something.
I'm not saying you're wrong that his teams never get over the hump but this team is a completely different creature than those Phoenix teams he had. A second round exit would be progress for this team going into the 2012 offseason looking for the one piece to put them towards the upper echelon.
That would be grounds for firing him? So basically, he needs to make it as a top 4 seed and make it to at least the conference finals to even be considered for an extension? If we win a 1st round series next year with minor adjustments to this roster, that would be a success no? Because right now, we're not better than any of those top 5 teams and I don't see that drastically changing next season.
Unless Orlando decides to trade D12 or something.
I'm not saying you're wrong that his teams never get over the hump but this team is a completely different creature than those Phoenix teams he had. A second round exit would be progress for this team going into the 2012 offseason looking for the one piece to put them towards the upper echelon.
